Chased off my Royal Caribbean & Celebrity

[Pistachio42]

Having been run off by RCI/Celebrity by their newly announced no agency discounts policy, I'll be booking on Norwegian once the two RCI cruises already booked are taken. So I'll be watching these boards. Any others feel the same way about RCI's new price-fixing scheme?

[shoreguy]

Having been run off by RCI/Celebrity by their newly announced no agency discounts policy, I'll be booking on Norwegian once the two RCI cruises already booked are taken. So I'll be watching these boards. Any others feel the same way about RCI's new price-fixing scheme?

 

 

And the folks here are compaining about the $10 service fee.

[zimmerjulie]

Welcome Pistachio42!

 

No, I don't like the new policy:) .

Hope you enjoy NCL:D .

[Guest nhrich]

The policy as stated to the TA community only affects advertised rates, but there is confusion over whether or not rates can be discounted without advertising them. BTW, Carnival is doing the same thing, starting January 1.

 

Rich

Carefree Vacations

[smeyer418]

you better go read this thread..its not as you say above...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=67050

[Pie-n-Fudge]

I'm pretty sure it's the same thing that Carnival is doing. I'm not sure how significantly you feel it will affect pricing? I was able to book a cruise last night at a very good price (IMO). Oh well, maybe NCL is in no position to follow suit.

[Guest nhrich]

you better go read this thread..its not as you say above...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=67050

That's why I went back and edited the post regarding the confusion. Personally, I'll go by what I'm told by the cruise line, and not the competition (and I have no reason to doubt him...I'd just rather go by what I'm told directly).

 

Rich

[smeyer418]

I think I posted before you edited. In any case, there will still be hidden discounting....especially with long term clients, I think... :) as in psst don't tell but sent me what is the password "discount" or I go elsewhere

[awatt]

I have a question. i read the above link. My TA is a wholesaler. Do wholesalers in effect qualify as group space (GAP referred to) as they buy blocks of rooms? I will ask my TA as well,but they are not yet open,different time zones.

[smeyer418]

I believe itr depends on how they buy the rooms. Some get blocks of rooms(group rates) some just discount the cruises fares.. it depends on what they do.

[Pistachio42]

smeyer418: I read the thread and talked to a local travel agent. It seems that the information in post #1 of that thread you referred me to is indeed correct (plus he appears to be quote senior RCI executives to which he had spoken). No rebating of any kind .. no onboard credit, no discounts, no cash rebates. I will have to pay exactly what RCCL says and that's it. What say you it all means or are you just sticking with the original press release rather than subsequent info provided to cruise agencies by RCI?

 

I, for one, will be moving my business to Norwegian, MSC, Oceania if RCI is going to truly price fix their product. With Carnival Corp and RCI now having a monopoly grip on cruising, I guess we should have expected this.

[smeyer418]

as I said elsewhere this is NOT the end of discounting it is the beginning of the end of the TA's(IMO){maybe too harsh -more likely a slow death}-----------. You can be sure that RCI and Carnival will fill up empty rooms with discounts but they will be last minute internet only etc...

[Cruise_More_Often]

Hi, Pistachio42.

 

I think you'll like NCL. Our first NCL cruise was last April on the Sun, and we had such a great time. The reviews are extremely positive. Immediately after our cruise, we booked another one on the Star, which has also received some wonderful reviews. The Dawn is the Star's sister ship, which DH and I hope to sail on next year. The POA is having some "new ship," "new crew" problems right now, which I'm sure you'll be reading about. It will undoubtedly get better as time goes by. You might want to wait a while before trying her.

[seahorse]

as I said elsewhere this is NOT the end of discounting it is the beginning of the end of the TA's(IMO){maybe too harsh -more likely a slow death}-----------. You can be sure that RCI and Carnival will fill up empty rooms with discounts but they will be last minute internet only etc...

Perhaps if you have all of your eggs in one basket:p It will be the slow death of your online rebaters.

 

True travelagents don`t only sell cruises. Rebaters are not travel agents, they are order takers. In my opinion:D

[awatt]

Our experience with NCL has been great so far. I can't speak for all ships,but we loved the Dawn. I have sailed RCL and Disney and would say our experience overall on the Dawn was comparable to RCCL, although each has some differences. They each have their strong and weak points,but we have been happy with both lines. So give it a try!

[smeyer418]

Perhaps if you have all of your eggs in one basket:p It will be the slow death of your online rebaters.

 

True travelagents don`t only sell cruises. Rebaters are not travel agents, they are order takers. In my opinion:D

I am not going to get into an argument with you but airline reservations used to be 90% through Travel agents and now? While they may just be order takers that is generally what the public really wants IMO and low prices. These shots accross the bows of the rebaters will eventual come back to haunt the full service agents too. If I am wrong in three years I'll buy you a drink and if I am right ...

[johnql]

I must have fallen asleep in class when the teacher was talking about monopolistic practices, restraint of trade, and anti-trust suits. So, I am at a loss to understand how RCI, Celebrity (and Carnival?) can get away with this newly announced policy. If this isn't price-fixing, what is it? Can someone please explain it to me? There must be a loophole somewhere that I'm failing to see.

[seahorse]

smeyer,

 

Not arguing, I know my profession, we serious ones are very adaptable. Pundits have been predicting our demise for some time now. When the posers and rapers have done their business the creative ones will still be around.

 

I like my Martini made with Ciroc Vodka, very cold:D

 

Have a good night

[seahorse]

I must have fallen asleep in class when the teacher was talking about monopolistic practices, restraint of trade, and anti-trust suits. So, I am at a loss to understand how RCI, Celebrity (and Carnival?) can get away with this newly announced policy. If this isn't price-fixing, what is it? Can someone please explain it to me? There must be a loophole somewhere that I'm failing to see.

I don`t think they are "Price fixing", not sure, but isn`t that they have one price among all of them and no one can change it?

 

Restraint of trade? Each cruise line can price anyway they can to get business and I can sell anyone I can.

 

Monopoly? There are a lot of cruise lines out there to sell for a lot of different prices. There is a lot of competition among them, believe me.

[cnmiranda]

I think there will always be a need for travel agents especially since many elders cruise and do not use the internet. Didn't the cruise lines try to cut out travel agents some years ago and it didn't work out? Apparently these companies are doing very well financially to give this a whirl. We'll see what happens.....

[johnql]

As I said, and I'm being sincere here, I don't fully understand the legal implications of the policy. All I can say is that something doesn't sound right to me.

 

BTW, I'm not accusing these companies of being monopolies. I know that there are other companies out there. My phrase was "monopolistic practices", which is what Microsoft was sued for. There are plenty of other software companies out there but Microsoft was found guilty of doing something that was legally unfair.

 

"Restraint of trade" -- again, I don't fully understand everything that this phrase implies either. But it sounds like it might apply when a company prevents independent agents from conducting business the way they would like to.

 

"Price fixing" -- maybe not, since the policy seems to only apply to advertised or publicly promoted rates. That might be akin to discounters in other industries that are allowed to sell at discounts but aren't allowed to use the brand names in their advertising.

[smeyer418]

I didn't fall asleep in law school and have made a number of successful anti-trust complaints in my days(the podiatrists in Wisconsin should remember me). I have done this in numerous states and with the feds in health care related matters and have I think a fairly good(not necessarily great) understanding of most anti-trust issues. Since no one player here controls the relevant market to more than 20%, there is really little monopolistic power on any one player. There are just too many cruiselines for any one to have monoply power. I find it very interesting that the Carnival discussion clearly indicates that unadvertised discounting will be allowed and that Celebrity/RCCI seems not to. That alone would be a substantial difference idicative of the fact that they did not collude. There is no anti-trust issue (NONE) about a supplier setting a uniform price that it will sell its product. There is no anti-trust issue for a principal telling its agent what price to sell something. This is the vertical integration rule that means that it is only one entity setting the price. Anti-trust activity(as opposed to anti-competive one) requires collusion between two entites. An entity can't collude with it self. It is merely setting a price. However when one sells to an independent distributor(as opposed to making them your agent for a set percentage of what is sold on the retail level) you may NOT tell that independent person what price they can sell the goods or service at. This is true whether its GM, coke pepsi etc. You may have already seen my discussion about how this is one entity- the cruise line and the travel agent and I won't repeat that here. This isn't Microsoft who controls 80% + of the operating system and bundled something that prevents other sellers from selling at all. Its a cruise line with less than 10% of the market. Notice that Carnival was careful not to do this accross all its lines. I did discuss the concept of selling blocks of rooms. When a cruise line does that and then tries to control the price those rooms are sold at, it in my view is treading on thin ice. Fair trade laws controlling manufacturers prices don't exist. And the person who mentioned Saturn should look at the Saturn website where it says it doesn't control price. The no haggling rule means that they have to put their best price and not negotiate. Since that is a branding quality issue and not a price one its not an anti-trust issue(sometimes the law is blind). So I don't see an anti-trust issue yet. But if the cruise lines through winks and secret handshakes have set thisw up as a trial balloon and then will all follow suit that clearly would be a violation. While the demise of the travel agent has been forecast for years, that business like all business, must change with increasingly difficult time and I look forward to buying you that drink...if I am wrong. enough legal nonsense already I need a drink...

[smeyer418]

I thought of one additonal point you should be aware that anti-trust violation have criminal sanctions(ask Mr. Taubman who was sent to jail for the Sothbys and the other auction houses colluding on fees).

[newmexicoNita]

I think the TA will remain as a part of our travel needs for awhile, but, eventually, like so many other things they will be replaced with technology. For now, as was said, if for no other reason seniors will continue to use them. The most important thing for travel agents is creativity.

 

NMnita

[johnql]

Thanks, smeyer, for the detailed explanation. I think I managed to follow most of it.