Paris CDG to Port in Harwich

[sjkabak]

Does anyone now how long this journey would take. Also what routing would work best? Found great airfare into Paris.

Steven

[HeinBloed]

More than 5.38 hrs and lower than 7.00 hrs
incl. 2 or 3 transfers

Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport TGV-Station to Lille Europe
from there to London Waterloo (until November 2007)

then the most stupid thing comes: Change of the station within London to Liverpool Street where the trains to Harwich International starts.

One advantage Harwich International is just in front of the cruise terminal.

Frankly spoken: spend 100 USD more for London instead of this stress.

Regards,
HeinBloed

[Globaliser]

[quote name='sjkabak']Does anyone now how long this journey would take. Also what routing would work best? Found great airfare into Paris.[/QUOTE]To cut a long story short, this will take you an entire day. For me, the savings would have to be quite extraordinary to make this worthwhile.[quote name='HeinBloed']then the most stupid thing comes: Change of the station within London to Liverpool Street where the trains to Harwich International starts.[/QUOTE]Why is this "stupid"? It so happens that these are the stations where the trains arrive from Paris and depart for Harwich.

Personally, I would recommend looking also at just going from CDG to the Gare du Nord, and getting a direct Eurostar from there. There are more frequent trains from Paris Nord to Waterloo than from Lille Europe - you can be waiting up to two hours between Eurostars there.

[HeinBloed]

[quote name='Globaliser']To cut a long story short, this will take you an entire day. For me, the savings would have to be quite extraordinary to make this worthwhile.Why is this "stupid"? It so happens that these are the stations where the trains arrive from Paris and depart for Harwich.

Personally, I would recommend looking also at just going from CDG to the Gare du Nord, and getting a direct Eurostar from there. There are more frequent trains from Paris Nord to Waterloo than from Lille Europe - you can be waiting up to two hours between Eurostars there.[/quote]

Well - if I am going on cruises I do not have only my mini-trolley with me for a day-bag but more pieces of baggage - personally I prefer to have the advantage to change trains at the same station then to transfer with all my baggage from one station to the next which is calculated by the route planner with 50 minutes. And any additional transfer is one transfer too many!!!

Change in Lille Europe was based on the shortest connection time with 5.38 hrs between Charles de Gaulle-Roissy TGV station and Harwich International.

All connection via Paris Nord was more than 6.30 hrs - based on Roissy-Charles de Gaulle RER station via Paris Nord to Harwich International.

So check this first before you rate other's suggestions!!!

Regards,
HeinBloed


N. B. What I would do personally:

Taking the trains to Ashford International and trying to find a limousine service which takes me to Harwich for the last 110 miles.

That's a good mixture to avoid the "stupid" transfer in London and to save a little time and improve the comfort of this connection.


Another option if you have one day time:

Direct trains from CDG to Rotterdam.
From there local train to Hoek van Holland
Ferry to Harwich.

[kazover40]

[COLOR=#008000]gofrance.about.com/cs/[B]train[/B]s/a/eurostar.htm[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#008000][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Check out this link. From Nov 1 travelling time will be even quicker![/COLOR]

[HeinBloed]

[quote name='kazover40'][COLOR=#008000]gofrance.about.com/cs/[B]train[/B]s/a/eurostar.htm[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]Check out this link. From Nov 1 travelling time will be even quicker![/COLOR][/quote]

It means that in London the terminal will move from Waterloo to St. Pancras.

For Harwich

now: 5.38 hrs shortest connection time
to: 5.04 hrs shortest connection time (via Lille!)

It's because St. Pancras and Liverpool Street are closer.


So for Harwich it's an advantage...

but

for other cruisers to

Dover

now: 3.36 hrs
to: 3.36 hrs

seems to be no changes - but best transit time is calculated on transfer in Ashford International. But after the changes the number of stops in Ashford will be limited to four daily connections.


and the worst for cruisers to

Southampton

now: 5.10 hrs (subject you do not want an additional transfer - otherwise 5.01 hrs)
to: 5.10 hrs (subject you do not want an additional transfer - otherwise 5.01 hrs)

But with the move from Waterloo to St. Pancras you do not loose total transit time to Southampton. You have only the disadvantage that Southampton-bound trains start from Waterloo and Eurostar arrives in Waterloo until November. The new (same) transit time includes a 45 minutes transit within London from one station to the next - so any time won on the Eurostar is lost again by having the transfer in London.


Always the reverse side of the medal...


Regards,
HeinBloed

[Globaliser]

[quote name='HeinBloed']Well - if I am going on cruises I do not have only my mini-trolley with me for a day-bag but more pieces of baggage - personally I prefer to have the advantage to change trains at the same station then to transfer with all my baggage from one station to the next which is calculated by the route planner with 50 minutes. And any additional transfer is one transfer too many!!![/QUOTE]I'm sure that we'd all rather have one fewer transfer. But just as big busy airports have many terminals, big busy railway systems have many stations; trains to some destinations will go from some stations and trains to other destinations will go from other stations.

So the fact that you have to transfer from Waterloo (or St Pancras) to Liverpool Street may be irritating, it may be aggravating, and it may be frustrating. But it is not "stupid".[quote name='HeinBloed']Change in Lille Europe was based on the shortest connection time with 5.38 hrs between Charles de Gaulle-Roissy TGV station and Harwich International.

All connection via Paris Nord was more than 6.30 hrs - based on Roissy-Charles de Gaulle RER station via Paris Nord to Harwich International.

So check this first before you rate other's suggestions!!![/QUOTE]I did not say that your suggestion was wrong, only that there is something else that should be looked at as well.

This is because your times are correct for [I]departure-to-arrival[/I] journey times. What I was pointing out was that you have not allowed for the fact that a journey from CDG via Lille Europe to Waterloo may involve waiting for up to two hours for the next train from Lille, because not every Eurostar stops at Lille. So a theoretically-shorter journey time via Lille may become a longer journey overall, if you could have travelled via Paris Nord and got a Eurostar from there much sooner. That is why it is also worth looking at the overall journey time via Paris Nord to see whether it's a better bet. The number of transfers is the same.

[brigittetom]

I know it is off topic, but we are going to Germany for 5 days before a sailing from Southhampton and would appreciate advice from HeinBloed or others familiar with the logistics.
Brigitte - (charley1 at bellsouth dot net )

[Globaliser]

Where in Germany are you going? If it's near an airport that has direct air service to Southampton (note correct spelling), then that could well be the easiest. Dusseldorf, Frankfurt and Hanover are the current German destinations - although don't forget to look for nearby airports in neighbouring countries too if you're going to be near a border.

Otherwise, you could fly from your nearest airport in Germany to Heathrow or Gatwick and get a coach or train to Southampton, the same as if you'd flown long-haul into one of those airports. They are the two with easy public transport links to Southampton.

Trying to do it by surface transport will involve a number of changes of train, and/or ferry sectors.

[HeinBloed]

Another option is use of Air France via Paris which allow you to connect to most German cities by air.

As mentioned before:

BA and Lufthansa have both great one-way tickets.

Because of the baggage policy (BA 1 piece upto 23 kgs / LH any number of baggage upto 20 kgs) you should decide accordingly. As Heathrow is not LH's homebase I find handling much more smoother. From Gatwick Germanwings (Low Cost Carrier and part of Lufthansa Group) is offering flights to Germany.

Heathrow is easy accessible by coach. (National Express)
Gatwick same by train (Southern Railways)

There are three more airports but not easy to access:

London City
Luton
Stansted

with great flight bargains:

Ryanair
Easyjet
Air Berlin
Germanwings
TUIfly

But what you might safe as air ticket you will spend in time, tickets to airport and excess baggage.

If you are more than one/two you should think about to rent a car from Southampton to one of the airports which would solve a lot of transportation problems.

But you will

Do not laugh: but we are driving ourselves from Germany to Southampton. With all the baggage it make sense.

But one-rentals from the UK to the Continent is very expensive.

Another option:

Southampton - London Waterloo
London Waterloo - Brussels South (Eurostar)
Brussels South for Cologne and North/East Bound (Thalys or ICE - High Speed Connection)
or Brussels South to Southern Germany with the Night Trains.

I hope you do not have lot baggage because you will have some problems with flybe's baggage policy.

Another one-stop option: cheap but very time-intensive:

coach to London Victoria
coach from there to Cologne - Frankfurt and south of it.

Last not least if you have time...

taking the ferry from Portsmouth to Le Havre.
Renting a car there to get to the French-Border (like Saarbrücken or Strasbourg - depends where you want to go).
Get a new car in Germany and get to your final destination.

So you can save the money of international one-way-rentals to avoid expensive one-way-surcharges.

These are the results of my investigations to get from Heidelberg area (central in Germany) to the QV in Southampton in January 2008.

We decide to fly from Frankfurt to London Heathrow with Lufthansa and rent a car for the section to Southampton.

It's the easiest way when you need a one-way.

I dislike the low-price-carriers! Flybe cancelled our flight to Glasgow and just offered us the refund of our ticket price. But as we booked via BA the flight they took care that we get another routing for the same price and that's why I prefer to use a true network carrier which might be a little more expensive but you get food and drinks and no trouble once there is a change.

The best is let me know where you want to go concrete in Germany and I'll see what I can do for you.

[COLOR=black]Do not hesitate to ask if you have questions.[/COLOR]

[B][COLOR=black]Have a great time in Germany.[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=red]Willkommen in Deutschland![/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=yellow]Welcome to Germany![/COLOR][/B]

Best regards,
HeinBloed