Two-class System on Ships?

[tommy]

Mandy, Book the cabin you want,but watch the prices EVERY DAY,you might be surprised,and many times the suites drop in price.You may get lucky and get the best of both.P rice,and cabin. TOM

[merryecho]

Should there be a luxury class on ships? Should everyone be able to use the first class toilet on airplanes? This all comes down to whether you believe that people should be able to buy extras if they are willing to pay for them (capitalism), or we should all be entitled to equal treatment. If you believe in the latter, what is next to go because all aren't treated equally? Really good but expensive restaurants? Manolo Blahnik shoes?

[dakrewser]

I'm firmly in favor of two classes, definitely seperated. Seperate dining rooms, seperate pools, seperate show lounges, etc. One set for people without children or those who teach their kids discipline and another set for those who refuse to care about their fellow pax.

 

:p

[cruisinjudy]

Rita,

Have you checked first class air fares lately? $100 is not going to do it coast to coast! just to use your frequent flier miles to upgrade you need to buy a more expensive ticket.

[RevNeal]

Outbound was an aisle seat for both of us, but return was an exit row where we could stretch our legs. But let me tell ya... the width of the seat was small! I sat down and realized "wow" - my hips must have really widened recently or this airline has narrow seats in coach!

 

That is precisely the reason I do not sit in the exit row. Yes, one has a lot more room there ... room to stretch one's legs. However ... and this is critical for someone of my build ... one does NOT have hip room. Those seats have solid sides and can be VERY VERY uncomfortable for someone who is as large as I am.

 

I would MUCH rather have a aisle seat, on the left side of the aisle, so that I can periodically stretch my leg out into the aisle for a few moments. I don't keep my right leg out there long ... just long enough to flex it and get the cramped feeling to go away. About once every 20 or so minutes.

[MandyGirl]

Mandy, Book the cabin you want,but watch the prices EVERY DAY,you might be surprised,and many times the suites drop in price.You may get lucky and get the best of both.P rice,and cabin. TOM

Hi Tom! Yes, we do book the cabin we want. We always book an inside cabin within one deck of the pool area - saves money for port excursions yet gives easy access to the outdoors. One time, on our wedding cruise, we booked a suite for that special occassion. We're more than content with the cabin we have booked on the upcoming cruise, and I was just checking to see about how full the ship was. That's when I noticed good fares and started looking around this morning.

Although that's what started me looking at different prices today (initially checking ship capacity for our holiday sailing), the question I asked in this thread really had to do with

(1) a lot of what I had been reading on various message boards (questions about suite amenities that may or may not be listed in the brochure or the HAL website),

(2) my previous learnings of cruising S/S Norway, and

(3) just plain ol' curiousity.

I really was curious if that was what passengers were moving towards since there are so many new ships coming out on the market these days... do they want the amenities that HAL had in recent years, the new reduction in amenities, a repeat of many years ago (totally separate), or just are happy to be on the ship. So I posted an anonymous poll where people could answer a poll without their choice being known.

I pretty much wish I would have never posted my question and just let curiousity remain as unknown curiousity. I guess there are just some things in life you don't ask...

[Krazy Kruizers]

2 class system??

We have also sailed on the Norway - a number of years ago. We were in the top category for NCL - PS - and there wasn't a separate dining room for us. Where did you get that information?

However, on the QE 2, we had breakfast, lunch, and dinner in our own dining room - the Queen's Grill.

We pay for what we want and expect to get more than others. In hotels for we pay for the club levels, on cruise ships we pay for the suites. So I do believe that we should get extra perks for what we are paying.

But when we get together at cc parties, we act just like everyone else on the ship - we don't treat or talk to those who have booked inside cabins like we can't be bothered with them.

If we hadn't had several bad incidents with tables, we would like to sit at a larger table. But lately, our luck ran out - so table for 2 - and we do talk to people at tables near us.

[CDRMark]

I am sure someone somewhere could (has?should?) do an MBA case study on Cruise ship Economics. Doing away with those pesky portholes, let alone balconies fortheluvvaMike, would save a bundle, n'est pas? Everyone in a 12x12 cabin....

as someone said it is not so much a matter of Class, but a matter of choice. Economics limits them a bit.

Cheers to all

MarkB

(willing prisoner of Uncle Sam's Big grey Boat Line 12x12 cabins for 10+years)

[MandyGirl]

2 class system??

 

We have also sailed on the Norway - a number of years ago. We were in the top category for NCL - PS - and there wasn't a separate dining room for us. Where did you get that information?

 

Maybe I misinterpreted the videos we saw onboard and S/S Norway website... but I thought that many years ago, when she was the S/S France, it was a two-class system. That's why some stairways didn't go to certain decks, why there were two dining rooms (the video we saw *I thought* talked about that being the two separate classes), the Club Internationale was strictly for one class of passengers, etc. The pool on the Sky deck sank down into what used the be the first-class outdoor area, and after the addition of the upper decks and Sky deck pool, passengers could walk around the deck underneath the pool, and look through windows into the pool. You could even see the bars on the windows of staterooms just as they were years ago when they looked out onto the enclosed garden area. (I definitely know we saw those - took pictures of them because we had read about that part of the history prior to sailing).

In recent years, she was retrofitted to do away with such a system. Cruiselines have moved towards a non-two-class system. So if you cruised her in the past 30 years (approximately), she was not a "two class system". Maybe my mind has really gone bad - but we cruised her less than two years ago and that's when we watched the history videos onboard and would follow the postings online to learn of her history. The ship used to even have it's own historian onboard. (Devon?)

If I am completely wrong on this, I am SO SORRY!! But I really do think that when I was learning about her history of the days as the S/S France, she was set up as a two-class system. Again, so terribly sorry if I have miscommunicated something!

[Krazy Kruizers]

When the Norway was the SS France - she did have a 2 class system.

But that was many years ago.

Don't be offended.

 

[MandyGirl]

The S/S France was before my time, but it was interesting learning about it onboard the S/S Norway- and I related it to the Titanic and others. But again, like I posted before, I wish I would have never asked the question. Since it's been posted, however, the poll results look like several passengers would like to return to having more amenities like previous years though, and that was what I was curious about, but not many at all want the totally separate system like I thought was "history". (I didn't even know that Cunard still does that until reading this thread - so I learned something new!) When you see messageboard questions pop up that I have posted in this thread - asking about separate pools, priority tender returning from HMC, separate dining, etc - it just sparked my curiousity. I should have just left it at that - curiousity and not even asked.

 

But I'm glad I'm not losing my mind just yet and the Norway really had previously been a two-class system years ago. :) I'm just happy to be healthy and onboard.

[TedC]

It's all about choices - and I think the more choice the better. I don't see HAL as really having a class system, but I do see it somewhat in Cunard where the cabin you book dictates which main dining room you can use.

 

I know people who drive Fords who could well afford a Mercedes or two. And I know people who drive Mercedes who have budgets that would be better served by a Ford.

 

But the happy fact is they all made the choice that suits them. And I think that's great!

[lknick]

You guys have just no fun.

 

Some of my best memories as a kid was sneaking from second class to first class on both the Queen Mary and the Normandie and trying to pass as a gent. But you know, second class was more fun than first class.

 

Today, everybody is just soooo serious about their perceived social position while at the same time wanting to uphold their individual rebellion.

[Vicar]

I haven't lived the "suite life" yert on a cruise ship, but I have been fortunate enough to live it in a few hotels. Most memorably in the High Roller Suite in Las Vegas (AS A GUEST OF A HIGH ROLLER I ASSURE YOU :))

 

I would be lieing if I said it wasn't beautiful and SOME of the ammenities were wonderful. but out of a long list of ammenities available. I don't think I used a quarter of them and just didn't feel the need to use them just cause they were there.

 

However that is just me. If there are pax who desire all those bells and whistles and they are willing to pay for them , then they should be available to them.

[Tricia724]

MandyGirl...I sailed the Norway sometime in the late 70s. My friend and I were in a standard outside cabin and for dinner we were seated with two couples (mother/father/son/DIL) who were in suites. The son was incensed that he was seated in the "lower class" dining room. He informed us (and everyone within hearing distance) that when the ship was the SS France, the "other" dining room was the "first class" dining room and considering what he paid for his suite, he should be in that room, blah, blah, blah. Obviously my friend and I were not what he had in mind for dining companions! Well, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so he did manage to get moved to the other dining room for which we were eternally grateful.

 

It was later explained to my friend and I by the dining room staff that the assignments to the two dining rooms were based on stateroom location; that is, all staterooms forward were in one dining room and all staterooms aft were in the other dining room, regardless of cabin accommodations. If I remember correctly, there were different colors of carpet on the decks...like blue and orange...that showed the line of demarkation. I don't know if that was true, but I personally didn't see any evidence of class separation. However, if someone chooses to think they are in a separate "class," it's OK with me....as long as I don't have to put up with them!

[jhannah]

[quote name='Vicar']... but out of a long list of ammenities available. I don't think I used a quarter of them and just didn't feel the need to use them just cause they were there.[/QUOTE]Ahem! I live just minutes away from every high-roller suite in town, and will be happy to come [i]anytime[/i] to help you take maximum advantage of the amenities available! ;)

[Vicar]

Jhannah


Oh don't get me wrong I loved every minute of it . I was only a guest of a high roller so this was a big deal for me, Just that when the consierge welcomed us and told us all the things he could do if we needed them I was thinking "that won't be necessary, "That won't be necessary"

Then I saw the bar in the living room and the buffett they laid out for us and thought "Now that is necessary" *LOL*

I guess I have lived 37 years without someone to lay out my clothes and draw my bath and hold doors open for me that I don't need it now.

But it was still the greatest time I ever had in your incredile city, and I have had some GREAT times there

[kryos]

[quote name='cruisinjudy']Rita,
Have you checked first class air fares lately? $100 is not going to do it coast to coast! just to use your frequent flier miles to upgrade you need to buy a more expensive ticket.[/QUOTE]
If you upgrade at the gate, usually you can get a deal. I saw people upgrading on my outbound flight, and I think they were paying like $60 additional.

I remember a flight I took to Florida ... I believe it was last year. Delta was actually offering $30 upgrades to business class. I turned it down because I couldn't see the sense of upgrading on such a short flight.

I think business class often doesn't get booked up, and they will let people upgrade for a more reasonable fee if they do it when checking in. Of course, the downside of that method is that there might not be any seats left in business class, forcing you to take coach.

Is it me, or does it seem that they are booking the airplanes more full in this past year? I remember when I went to Maui back in 2001. We had tons of empty seats on the aircraft. In fact, I had a row of three across all to myself. I felt bad for this husband and wife or were sitting side by side in a row of two across. The husband was somewhat large and you could see that he was very, very uncomfortable even with the armrest up. I tapped him on the shoulder and suggested they swap with me so that they could have an empty seat between them, and I still had two seats to myself.

I doubt you'd see that sort of a situation today, however. The flights (at least the ones I've been on) just seem to be scheduled in such a way that they all leave the gate pretty much full. And with the tight quarters in coach, that can make for a very uncomfortable ride ... especially if your trip is coast-to-coast.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='MandyGirl'][color=darkorchid]Rita - I had to chuckle at this. We flew Virgin Atlantic to London this past June. Outbound was an aisle seat for both of us, but return was an exit row where we could stretch our legs. But let me tell ya... the width of the seat was small! I sat down and realized "wow" - my hips must have really widened recently or this airline has [b]narrow[/b] seats in coach!!!:eek: I have over 100K AAdvantage miles to use, and have seriously thought of just using them for first class on the next overseas flight!! [/color][/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]LOL ... I actually got bounced out of the exit row once about five or six years ago. When the flight attendant was explaining the duties a passenger in this position would be expected to perform, I turned around to the person next to me and said (in a voice a bit too loud) ... "I'd have no problem popping the door! Heck, I'm a skydiver!" Flight attendant actually asked another passenger to switch places with me. I was shocked. What did she think I was gonna do? Open the door in mid-flight and jump out?

Of course, she would have freaked out even more if she had seen me at boarding ... stowing my parachute rig in the overhead bin. I was returning from a skydiving vacation. :)

But at least back then those exit rows were nice and roomey. I hated like hell having to move.

Blue skies ...

--rita[/COLOR]

[kryos]

[quote name='sail7seas']But, to YOU, it is NOT worth the money to have the extra perks in a Suite. Does that mean that it should NOT be worth it to me either....that I should be unable to buy those amenities? That they should not be offered?[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Magenta]Oh, no ... that's not what I meant. Of course, suite ammenities should always be offered to those who can and are willing to pay for them. I certainly didn't mean that just because I would not be willing to pay for them, no one else should have them available either. In fact, I seem to recall reading on this board that HAL had cut back on certain suite ammenities, and if this is true, they need to rethink their philosophy in that regard.

If someone is willing to pay for a full suite, then they should certainly enjoy certain "perks" that are not available to the average passenger. That is only fair. People pay for first class because they expect to receive a higher level of service, whether that be in a hotel, on an airplane, or on a cruise ship ... and they are certainly entitled.

Hey, maybe someday I'll be able to financially justify indulging in the "suite life" ... it's just that right now the cost would not be worth it to me since it would mean one more cruise I wouldn't be able to take. But, hopefully someday I'll be able to join you in the Neptune lounge ... and I'll look forward to that day.

Blue skies ... and again, I'm sorry about my poorly worded orignial response ...

--rita[/COLOR]

[Nasmas]

[quote name='dakrewser']I'm firmly in favor of two classes, definitely seperated. Seperate dining rooms, seperate pools, seperate show lounges, etc. One set for people without children or those who teach their kids discipline and another set for those who refuse to care about their fellow pax.

:p[/QUOTE]
I agree. Who gets to decide who goes where? Us or the parents of the little darlings?

[jazzsea]

Suite amenities are wonderful but not nearly as nice as they were even two years ago.

Most of us that book suites (for us only occasionally) don't do it just for the amenities. We do it for the large cabin space, the large verandah and the bath. If we are really Suite passengers, we will stay away from the Vista class ships (and Noordam) as their suites are not nearly as nice as those on the other ships.

That being said, I will book a lower category (even an inside) when I want to do an itinerary that is longer or more exotic. Somewhere along the line we all make the decision about how much we are willing to spend to support our cruise "habit".

Verandahs are great. I love them. But I would give the verandah a pass if my budget didn't allow for the cost. It's the cruise that matters.

I would always book or recommend booking a verandah for an Alaska sailing or a Norwegian Fjords sailing and never recommend a verandah for a Transatlantic sailing.

[sail7seas]

[QUOTE]
Suite amenities are wonderful but not nearly as nice as they were even two years ago.

Most of us that book suites (for us only occasionally) don't do it just for the amenities. We do it for the large cabin space, the large verandah and the bath. If we are really Suite passengers, we will stay away from the Vista class ships (and Noordam) as their suites are not nearly as nice as those on the other ships. [/Quote]


[b]Aside from Suite dinner and now the elimination of breakfast/lunch in Pinnacle, what is not nearly as nice about suite amenities? I must be oblivious or very forgetful as those are the only two changes that come to mind. Two years ago, only Rotterdam and Amsterdam had Neptune Lounges. As soon as Zaandam gets hers (and Noordam leaves the fleet this fall) all the ships will have a Neptune Lounge. That is a huge improvement IMO[/b]


[b]We have enjoyed four cruises on Zuiderdam (and have a fifth booked) and while I agree that the Suite in smaller in square footage (as well as the veranda) than on all of the other ships, it is still a very comfortable cabin. There are some things that are better about it IMO than the other suites. I like the verandah furniture better on Vista ships; I like the larger bathroom and the double sinks....although I do like having the sink at my dressing table on the other ships.[/b]
[b]To me, the biggest negative about the Vista Class "S" cabins in the lack of drawer space. I am still trying to figure out what genius thought it preferable to leave a huge empty space under the counter in the place where six drawers exist in the other suites. What idiot thought that was a good idea? And how many other idiots signed off on the "improvement"? [/b]

[localady]

[font=Comic Sans MS][size=3][color=blue]Although it's just a small thing, I get the feeling the high tea in your suite has also gone by the way side. We really enjoyed having that on our Amsterdam cruise one day, it was so beautiful and to be served all on Silver service was fabulous!! I no longer see that mentioned in the list of suite perks, seems to have been substituted for duvets:rolleyes: .....:cool:[/color][/size][/font]

[gizmo]

What comes to mind? The chocolate covered strawberries that you would find in your cabin when returning for the night.