Pray You Don"t Need Medical Attention On Crown Princess!!!

[oraf7]

I have called Princess and I need to send them a letter for which I am requiring a signature. I will also get in touch with congress if I have to in order to have them mandate that every deck on each landing has at the minimum first aid kits so that I don't need to use unsterile tissues and napkins on open wounds.

Princess hires Fleet Medical Group so it's imperative that they know the substandard care their passengers are receiving. The regular Princess Crew was excellent!

Believe me I will not let this go unrecognized for future passengers. I will contact whomever I have to for future safety.

[tishie58]

ok...we just booked the Crown for March but my husband is a Lt paramedic for the FDNY and he says they do jobs like that on the ships and planes arriving and leaving NYC all the time. Did anyone call FDNY?? I would trust my husband more than any doc anywhere. I am a peds oncology nurse in NYC also and I am proud that bystanders who were nurses helped your dad. Having just traveled on Carnival with my family including my parents who are in their eighties, I totally understand. Hope the entire cruise ship industry takes heed because apparently ALL these cruise ships have these problems occasionally.

[oraf7]

I agree FDNY should have been called seeing that we were in Port. What if we were at sea though and we had to rely on this crew. God Forbid and yes the 2 Doctors and nurse truly are ANGELS. I am the one that went to the phone and pressed Emergency never giving any thought as to who that would contact or if they would be responsible enough to know to call FDNY if they didn't have adequate staff or supplies. When they decided to let my Dad do a back crawl down the stairs is when they as Medical professionals should have called additional resources. I was so involved with the Medical people helping to put pressure on my Dads head with ice that I don't think I was thinking as straight as I could have been. Thank God we all yelled for help. Again thanks everyone for caring.

 

You will love the Crown and seeing that you are a nurse and your husband is an EMT you are in good hands. Food is great and the regular Princess crew is excellent!

[rachel0]

I will no doubt get flamed for this but here goes. First OP, what happened to you and your father, and whole family really, is HORRIBLE. I am so sorry. I pray he'll recover well despite Princess' medical staff. You really need some redress.

 

Here's the part that no doubt I will get flamed for. Don't care. This is why the legal system exists--from what I've read (although I'm sure the Princess med ppl will have some response) this is a very legitimate claim for some type of legal redress. Yes I am a lawyer and I am NOT giving legal advice but I am defending the American legal system. It is exists to help people like the OP. The courts cannot reverse the damage but it does try to compensate. It's not about money grubbing. Most lawyers are not like that and the ones I know who are, well frankly, i hate them too.

 

The courts cannot make OP's father better but a legitimate lawsuit not only exposes problems to the harsh light of day and acts as a restraint/preventative on companies. Start yelling tort reform and tying lawyer's hands to help people just enables companies to take shortcuts or use dubious practices that could eventually harm ALL consumers or cause serious pain and damage to a few. Should insane multimillion dollar verdicts be allowed and most of it going to lawyers be allowed? Of course not. Did i mention I hate those guys too? It's wrong. But soem of the current tort reform (at least in Texas) is just harming innocent victims who've been harmed and giving a slap on the wrist to the offenders/lawbreakers. It's not any different that saying murder is illegal but you don't need to serve more than say 2-5 years for it. Okay, off my soapbox.

 

And no, I do not practice any kind of personal injury and have not been affected by tort reform. Yes, I litigate--commercial litigation and it is often defending businesses from solo's to Fortune 100 companies. I also do pro bono work for area women's shelters and spent a year in law school doing that, as well as for children's protective services. Flame on!

[The Cruise Advantage]

I have called Princess and I need to send them a letter for which I am requiring a signature. I will also get in touch with congress if I have to in order to have them mandate that every deck on each landing has at the minimum first aid kits so that I don't need to use unsterile tissues and napkins on open wounds.

Princess hires Fleet Medical Group so it's imperative that they know the substandard care their passengers are receiving. The regular Princess Crew was excellent!

Believe me I will not let this go unrecognized for future passengers. I will contact whomever I have to for future safety.

 

I thoroughly understand your frustrations and anger with how your dad was treated, having gone through a similar situation on the Galaxy last year. Though my situation was more positive with the medical staff, Celebrity failed to follow through with their protocols when a patient is removed from one of their ships.

Unfortunately, you may get the run around, standard form emails and snail mail letters apologizing, and finally the BIG DELAY in responding to your concerns hoping you will fade away like so many other upset passengers. Celebrity did a pretty good job of giving me the big run around.

Princess could care less about recognizing your problem unless you have a good attorney that will go to bat for you. But you see, you are just one person and they don't see you as threat, because you may or will decide not to do a thing about this. Even if you do pursue this legally, Princess will try to settle for some monetary sum and all will be forgiven. Oh, by the way their ships will still be full. Should you and a few hundred people decide to boycott their line, guess what?, there will be a few hundred waiting in line to run on board there ships and to take your place. That is their attitude. So long as our ships are full the passengers must love our product, regardless of how we handle emergency situations.

Until passengers follow through with legal proceedings and the cruise line has to pay for their indiscretions then all will continue as is.

It is all about $$$$$ not passenger care in emergency situations.

Hope you get a more positive response from their administrative employees. Hang in there.

[LynneL]

I’m not a psychologist, but played one on TV, but I think the poster was just to emotionally upset to know what actually happened.

 

 

Paris....Nicole...Is that you??? Was the show "The Simple Life"?

 

Let's hope you were kidding, right? There is substanial blood loss, which is difficult to stop, when a person on blood thinners is injured. The OP had a elderly family member sustain a head injury with serious bleeding & you are diagnosing her emotional state based on role playing! That situation called for IMMEDIATE medical attention - period.

[Azhure]

I will no doubt get flamed for this but here goes. First OP, what happened to you and your father, and whole family really, is HORRIBLE. I am so sorry. I pray he'll recover well despite Princess' medical staff. You really need some redress.

 

Here's the part that no doubt I will get flamed for. Don't care. This is why the legal system exists--from what I've read (although I'm sure the Princess med ppl will have some response) this is a very legitimate claim for some type of legal redress. Yes I am a lawyer and I am NOT giving legal advice but I am defending the American legal system. It is exists to help people like the OP. The courts cannot reverse the damage but it does try to compensate. It's not about money grubbing. Most lawyers are not like that and the ones I know who are, well frankly, i hate them too.

 

The courts cannot make OP's father better but a legitimate lawsuit not only exposes problems to the harsh light of day and acts as a restraint/preventative on companies. Start yelling tort reform and tying lawyer's hands to help people just enables companies to take shortcuts or use dubious practices that could eventually harm ALL consumers or cause serious pain and damage to a few. Should insane multimillion dollar verdicts be allowed and most of it going to lawyers be allowed? Of course not. Did i mention I hate those guys too? It's wrong. But soem of the current tort reform (at least in Texas) is just harming innocent victims who've been harmed and giving a slap on the wrist to the offenders/lawbreakers. It's not any different that saying murder is illegal but you don't need to serve more than say 2-5 years for it. Okay, off my soapbox.

 

And no, I do not practice any kind of personal injury and have not been affected by tort reform. Yes, I litigate--commercial litigation and it is often defending businesses from solo's to Fortune 100 companies. I also do pro bono work for area women's shelters and spent a year in law school doing that, as well as for children's protective services. Flame on!

 

I thoroughly understand your frustrations and anger with how your dad was treated, having gone through a similar situation on the Galaxy last year. Though my situation was more positive with the medical staff, Celebrity failed to follow through with their protocols when a patient is removed from one of their ships.

Unfortunately, you may get the run around, standard form emails and snail mail letters apologizing, and finally the BIG DELAY in responding to your concerns hoping you will fade away like so many other upset passengers. Celebrity did a pretty good job of giving me the big run around.

Princess could care less about recognizing your problem unless you have a good attorney that will go to bat for you. But you see, you are just one person and they don't see you as threat, because you may or will decide not to do a thing about this. Even if you do pursue this legally, Princess will try to settle for some monetary sum and all will be forgiven. Oh, by the way their ships will still be full. Should you and a few hundred people decide to boycott their line, guess what?, there will be a few hundred waiting in line to run on board there ships and to take your place. That is their attitude. So long as our ships are full the passengers must love our product, regardless of how we handle emergency situations.

Until passengers follow through with legal proceedings and the cruise line has to pay for their indiscretions then all will continue as is.

It is all about $$$$$ not passenger care in emergency situations.

Hope you get a more positive response from their administrative employees. Hang in there.

 

No flame here. Both your posts have given me something to think about.

I've never really thought about why some law suits of this nature can really be important. I'll admit I have always felt them to be frivolous money grabbing efforts, but, you've given me a different perspective.

[rachel0]

Princess could care less about recognizing your problem unless you have a good attorney that will go to bat for you. But you see, you are just one person and they don't see you as threat, because you may or will decide not to do a thing about this. Even if you do pursue this legally, Princess will try to settle for some monetary sum and all will be forgiven. Oh, by the way their ships will still be full. Should you and a few hundred people decide to boycott their line, guess what?, there will be a few hundred waiting in line to run on board there ships and to take your place. That is their attitude. So long as our ships are full the passengers must love our product, regardless of how we handle emergency situations.

Until passengers follow through with legal proceedings and the cruise line has to pay for their indiscretions then all will continue as is.

It is all about $$$$$ not passenger care in emergency situations.

Hope you get a more positive response from their administrative employees. Hang in there.

 

The Cruise Advantage is right. I am not advocating that OP go ahead and sue them (and I am NOT giving legal advice). One of the only reasons companies change policies is because of lawsuits. Yes, if this OP sued they'd try to settle but even that gets recorded and all the other attorneys see that. It sets a precedent and that's what creates the change. That and bad publicity. So unless there's good, national press coverage or a lawsuit that goes well (either a good win or a good settlement) then no boycott or single complainant will make a dent in this (or any other) company practice. Don't get me wrong, a lawsuit is more headache than the average person understands so one should never rush thoughtlessly into litigation. It's a lot of work for client as well as lawyer--but it's our jobs so whatever--but would be clients need to understand it could be a long drawn out ugly process that can feel like a personal attack sometimes. I think it's worth it, obviously since I became a lawyer, because it effects change. The legal system is truly an amazing beautiful thing that makes America the home of the free. Next thing you know, I'll be bursting into a refrain of the anthem.

 

OP no matter what you do, I hope you guys eventually find some peace and balance back in your lives after what should have been a lovely vacation.:)

[rachel0]

No flame here. Both your posts have given me something to think about.

I've never really thought about why some law suits of this nature can really be important. I'll admit I have always felt them to be frivolous money grabbing efforts, but, you've given me a different perspective.

 

Excellent! That's wonderful! You don't need to come to my same conclusion but I'm so glad you've given some thought and opened to a different point of view. I loooove the internet and loooove CC.

[The Cruise Advantage]

I just want to remind everyone about possible lawsuits and their results. I'm sure everyone remembers the incident that took place, I believe on the Radiance of the Seas in the Mediterranean when Mr. Smith (?) disappeared from the ship one evening and his wife had no idea where he was until the next morning. Well, what happened? After all the experts making claims of negligence and how terrible what happened, the wife settled out of court, rightly or wrongly, and all is well in RCCL land. With all the publicity on TV and in the newspapers and all the lawyers and investigators involved, we still do not have an answer nor will we. Again and again, it comes down to how can we the cruise lines, as well as other companies in this country, get off by paying a set amount agreed upon by all the liars (I'm sorry) lawyers and really not have to change to much of our procedures.

It would be the appropriate thing for Princess to address Oraf7's problem by making sure this sort of situation doesn't exsist on future cruises. What is done is done. No one can change what happened, but Princess needs to come through and hopefully compensate her dad.

[IHeartMickey]

I had a similar experience with Carnival. I fell down a flight of stairs in the show lounge on the Victory (from the very top) head first and landed on my shoulder. I was bruised all over, and basically shaking like a leaf from the pain. A fellow passenger helped me get to a seat, and got a workers attention. Apparently someone was called to bring a wheelchair and bring me to the infirmary but I waited about 20 minutes in tears from the pain and no one showed up. So I limped and hobbled all the way back to our room and my mom called the infirmary to see if they could bring the wheelchair to our room because at this point the pain was so bad I thought I broke my arm/shoulder plus I had banged my legs up on the stairs on the way down.

 

It took another 15 minutes for someone to bring a wheelchair. It was basically a CHILD SIZE wheelchair. I'm a little fluffy and there was no way I was going to fit in it. We told the person who brought the chair that and they just shrugged and said they didn't have any others and begrudgingly gave us directions to the infirmary. I eventually limped by way down, they took xrays and said nothing was broken so they gave me painkillers and that was it. Not even a sling, and I couldn't even bend my arm AT ALL.

 

Not once did anyone from Carnival check up to see if everything was okay, absolutely nothing was done.

 

And that folks.. is why I will NEVER EVER sail with Carnival again.

[surfklutz]

I will no doubt get flamed for this but here goes. First OP, what happened to you and your father, and whole family really, is HORRIBLE. I am so sorry. I pray he'll recover well despite Princess' medical staff. You really need some redress.

 

Here's the part that no doubt I will get flamed for. Don't care. This is why the legal system exists--from what I've read (although I'm sure the Princess med ppl will have some response) this is a very legitimate claim for some type of legal redress. Yes I am a lawyer and I am NOT giving legal advice but I am defending the American legal system. It is exists to help people like the OP. The courts cannot reverse the damage but it does try to compensate. It's not about money grubbing. Most lawyers are not like that and the ones I know who are, well frankly, i hate them too.

 

The courts cannot make OP's father better but a legitimate lawsuit not only exposes problems to the harsh light of day and acts as a restraint/preventative on companies. Start yelling tort reform and tying lawyer's hands to help people just enables companies to take shortcuts or use dubious practices that could eventually harm ALL consumers or cause serious pain and damage to a few. Should insane multimillion dollar verdicts be allowed and most of it going to lawyers be allowed? Of course not. Did i mention I hate those guys too? It's wrong. But soem of the current tort reform (at least in Texas) is just harming innocent victims who've been harmed and giving a slap on the wrist to the offenders/lawbreakers. It's not any different that saying murder is illegal but you don't need to serve more than say 2-5 years for it. Okay, off my soapbox.

 

And no, I do not practice any kind of personal injury and have not been affected by tort reform. Yes, I litigate--commercial litigation and it is often defending businesses from solo's to Fortune 100 companies. I also do pro bono work for area women's shelters and spent a year in law school doing that, as well as for children's protective services. Flame on!

 

No flames here - I totally agree with you. I have noticed a total decline in this type of "customer service" - it is almost as though some cruise lines treat everything as a non emergency, self induced situation so as to deny any liability. I remember the days when cruise lines bent over backwards to make sure they were not sued for this type of incompetence. Not so anymore - most cruise lines barely acknowledge complaints such as this.

[DeepWaterMariner]

From the posts I've read I'm a little confused about how the person was harmed by Princess. The OP admits that the fall wasn't the fault of Princess. Was there an injury that Princess failed to treat? It certainly sounds like they didn't provide treatment in a reasonable time, but did that delay add to the injuries, delay recovery, or result in permanent injury?

[willysgrandma]

From the posts I've read I'm a little confused about how the person was harmed by Princess. The OP admits that the fall wasn't the fault of Princess. Was there an injury that Princess failed to treat? It certainly sounds like they didn't provide treatment in a reasonable time, but did that delay add to the injuries, delay recovery, or result in permanent injury?

 

 

Had the FDNY been called,they likely would have taken the Dad to the hospital and he may not have been in the extreme pain he was in and perhaps could have lessened some of the injuries by treating him quicker instead of leaving him lying on the floor for a half hour before looking at him. The faster injuries are treated, the less possible damage they can do.

 

OP, did you use a TA? If you did, you need to enlist their help with this.

[Jacqueline]

The patient did not recieve medical care that would meet any standard in any first world country.

[DeepWaterMariner]

Had the FDNY been called,they likely would have taken the Dad to the hospital and he may not have been in the extreme pain he was in and perhaps could have lessened some of the injuries by treating him quicker instead of leaving him lying on the floor for a half hour before looking at him. The faster injuries are treated, the less possible damage they can do.

 

Has a doctor determined that this is true? I'm sure a lawyer could find a doctor who would say that but Princess would find an expert to refute it. I'm sure there are plenty of personal injury lawyers who need the business and would give it a shot hoping to get a quick out of court settlement.

[Toto2Kansas]

Without trying to open a can or worms here, and after reading the original post. I see that the fall was on deck 15 and the medical center seems to be 10 decks below. What would you consider an appropriate time of response on the last day of the cruise when stairwells and elevators are loaded with passengers? Just curious?

[SRUTKO1226]

My husband has multiple medical problems. He almost died onboard an NCL cruise. We had better than land based help and a wonderful doctor one night when he went into diabetic shock.

 

Every protocol was addressed. I never felt more secure with any staff.We have lived with this for 30 years. They even re educated me in some ways.

 

 

What happened here? I am not a cheerleader for any cruise line or doctor.. But ....

[Whistlespitter]

Very "nice" of you to speculate all the possible reasons for the poor response on behalf of Princess! Too bad you stopped numbering them after just two. Otherwise, you would make a career politician. /Sultan

 

I don't think anyone is seriously, going to suggest that the response of the medical team was acceptable. While there were obviously, things they could do to more adequately deal with medical emergencies, I would never expect a cruise ship to be able to be prepared for any emergency. The staffs will never be large enough to avoid being overwhelmed (yes, you have to be open to the possibility that they were detained with another emergency when the elderly gentleman fell.) The clinics will never be like mini hospitals, though it is puzzling that they don't have the portable "non-medic proof" defibrillators. My DW has visited the clinic on three of our six cruises together - one for an attack of some lower gi pain, one for sea-sickness and one for a fall (yes, the first thing they do is get you to agree to take medical responsibility - distressing when you are in pain, angering if you feel that your injury is due to the facilities.)

 

Maybe more of the staff should be trained as responders to offer first aid. Maybe there should be paramedics on board to do first response and leave the nurses and doctors in the medical center.

 

Whats my point? Hmmm - I think that a cruise ship is not a good place to have a serious medical emergency - just as would a wilderness camp, a trans-oceanic airliner, a third world country or the middle of nowhere in a car. They could make it better but it will cost us.

 

And finally, I know I'd feel the same way if I were the op. I know how I felt when DW slipped on the wet deck!

 

John in OH

[houch]

Cheryl.

So sorry about what happened with your dad. It's so hard to see your parent suffering and fear of losing them becomes overwhelming.

 

I thought I was going to lose my dad on our first cruise. He was 87 and took us to Alaska on the Regal Princess in 1995. During the cruise he bacame ill and was in the ship's medical center for a couple of days and during one night he had a third degree heart block. When we arrived there he was semi conscious and they had an external pacemaker on him. They had on call nurses there working in their shorts as it was so busy with so many elderly ill folks. (Alaska typically has a majority of elderly pax). As a nurse I was curious about their facility and when comfortable dad was in good and capable hands, I checked it out. It was a mini hospital, of course not equipped for major surgeries, but quite well stocked for many things.

 

The next morning dad awoke as if nothing had happened. We got off in Ketchecan and Princess arranged for transport to the general hospital there for dad in an ambulance and a taxi for us. They also arranged for lodging for us close to the hospital. The doctor in Ketchecan made arrangements with our docs here, Princess personnel there made all the travel arrangements for us. An ambulance met our plane at the airport, took dad right to the hospital where he went right to surgery for a pacemaker.

 

This had been an off and on problem with dad for several years, without treatment by docs here! If it wasn't for our good care by all Princess personnel and the doc at Ketchecan, I don't think dad would have ever got a pacemaker. (heck, if it wasn't for the medical staff on the ship, dad would have died). As a result he lived to be 93 and fairly healthy. He was still golfing in his 92nd summer!

 

I didn't go into great detail but have always felt grateful to Princess for saving my dad's life. Princess remains my favorite line. I do realize it isn't the cruise line but the staff they have working for them. I am sad you had a medical staff that was sub par. That is also true in the various medical systems around here and throughout the country. During my career I have seen medical care go downhill, even with much better technology that we have today. A sad thing.

 

I do hope your dad is healing and am sorry your family had to go through such a horrible experience.

[jlp20]

A while back there was a posting from a woman who was on the CB. She stated she was choking on a chunk of meat that had been caught in her throat. She was complaining that even though it was obvious she was in distress and could not breath, none of the dinning room staff stepped forward to help her. It was also posted that sometime previous to this, a similar occurrence had taken place. A waiter had helped the pax by doing the Heimlich maneuver, injuring several ribs in the process. As thanks, the pax then sued Princess for the injury. It was posted that due to that injury claim, non-medical employees of Princess were ordered never to touch a pax as long as they were conscious.

 

So, just how many medical staff are there on the ship. One doctor and maybe three nurses at the most. Again no one knows what was going on in the medical center at the time.

 

As a side note, what do you want Congress to do, the CB is not an American ship.

[CraigRDR1]

This is just my 2 cents here..and could be way off base...First let me say that NO ONE wants to see anything bad happen to anyone. Im sorry that your father had an awful spill at the end of your trip and hope that he's doing well. That being said, when I first read your post I was very distrubed but as more and more facts have come into play Im not sure that I can take your side completely in this matter... An elderly 300+ man takes a head first fall down the stairs...breaks his nose, lacerates his head and damages his shoulder. As health professional and having extensive training in head/neck injuries (jaw fractures, facial fractures, infections, lacerations etc) the first rule of thumb is never to move a person that has had head/neck trauma until you rule out a neck fracture. Now, you have a 300+ man who is bleeding from the head (head lacs bleed alot because the head has extensive blood supply) and could have broken his neck...why would you let anyone other than a trained paramedic/doctor move your father. Second, If you felt the you werent getting the help you needed...you grab the nearest cell phone call 911 and have the trained pros of the FDNY come on board and transport your father to the nearest hospital. Expecting Princess to step up and provide you with hospital type care at that point wasnt gonna fly. Stop the bleeding make the pt comfortable without moving him, call for the FDNY. You werent at sea or in the foreign country you had options and should have acted. Okay, I understand people panic, heat of the moment..etc..etc... But laying this on Princess just doesnt cut it.

 

No one was gonna move your father for fear of creating or making an injury worse. From your account your father did not pass out after the fall and his basic life functions (breathing, heart..etc) were not impaired... Best thing that could have been done is control the bleeding and wait for help to arrive.

 

Again..I hope he's doing well...and not making light of the situation...but do feel that people need to take control of situations to get the best results...and this case didnt seem like that.

 

just my 2 cents...

[San Diego Ellie]

The time lapse until official help arrived is unforgivable. I had a bad experience on Celebrity Mercury, but at least help came imemdiately when my husband punched the emergency number on the telephone in our stateroom.

 

I had falled backwards into the shower area, and suffered what turned out to be a severe compression fracture of the vertebrae. When they got me out of the bathroom, into a wheelchair, and into the medical facility, the doctor xrayed (I had to stand up!) with their medieval equipment, and pronounced me to have "no fracture and a soft tissue injury." She did say that I should see an orthpedist when I got home. She also did administer a pain injection, and had my husband bring me to the medical facility for same next morning, evening, and morning of disembarkation.Luckily we were just two days out of San Diego, where the cruise terminated, and where we live, and where I could get a proper diagnosis through modern equipment, and get proper treatment!

[oraf7]

It's so easy to say what we should have done like dial from our cell phone 911 but when someone you love so dearly is bleeding profusely and you call emergency on the ships phone you hope you will get help quickly. Also what about when you are at sea? I was so emotionally upset and asking the Doctor/passenger what to do as my hands were both drenched in blood as I pressed ice onto his head. We all think we know how we would react in an emergency until you have experienced the situation. My father wasn't stable as one of the above posters stated as being on cumodin a blood thinner made things worse. Also he was disoriented and remembers nothing after the fall. This isn't about any lawsuit but rather about making sure that all cruisers receive adequate care. It shouldn't have taken 1/2 hour to stroll to my Dad. Just my opinion. No 1st aid kits to be found no excuse. Also Princess is my favorite line and I blame Fleet Medical Group. I can tell you I am a bit apprehensive about cruising with someone with a pre=exsisting condition after what I witnessed. Doubters I pray you never go thru the stress my Family endured.

[sultan_sfo]

I have been following this discussion. Suddenly more Princess defenders have appeared. My opinion -- if the ship was at a port, it is the job of Princess not the pax to call 911. Princess will get a much quicker response and Princess can best explain where the ship is docked and clear the way for them to board. Another post said that the medical department is on deck 4 and the injured pax was on deck 15 and the elevators were busy. Aw -- come on ye Princess cheerleaders. Cardinal Rule: Try Using the the stairs in emergency. I think that perhaps there are not enough drills how to respond to medical emergencies (like Muster drills).

/Sultan