Renaissance bankruptcy victim

[St. Louis]

As a victim of Renaissance Cruise Line's bankruptcy in 2001, I am wary of making plans to cruise on Oceania, even though they offer trips that I really like. Are they the old "Renaissance" come back to life? They have the Renaissance ships and it sounds like the guru was the one behind Renaissance. I lost my cruise payment ($2,000) in this bankruptcy and I am not the only one to lose money. Is anyone worried about Oceania? Renaissance, like Oceania, was a mid sized line and I was told it was hard to make money if you're in that size range.

[Animag1]

and have booked my 3rd Oceania cruise. I was a Ren cruiser before that.

 

If you're worried, buy insurance that includeds bankruptcy.

[cathi]

We have booked our first Oceania cruise and everyone I tell says they have heard nothing but good things about them. I have heard of people snapping up 2009 sailings as they are released but that the prices are increasing over 2008 so I don't think bankruptcy is a problem. If in doubt buy insurance!

[LHT28]

This topic has been beaten to death.

You can do a search here for previous discussions

 

Oceania is NOT Ren

Azamara & Princess have some of the R ships ..are they Ren?

If you are worried, buy insurance that covers any problems ...it is all in your comfort zone whether you choose to book with Oceania or not.

[Druke I]

Like animagi1 above, we are not worried. We've been on two Oceania cruises, and have two more booked.

[St. Louis]

I wasn't worried either when I booked my cruise with Renaissance. No one announces that they will be going under in the near future and suggests you not do business with them. After the Renaissance fiasco, some travel insurance companies no longer cover bankruptcy. So I suggest you check your policy to be sure you get that coverage.

 

LHT28 - you sound like a company employee! Rah rah!

[LHT28]

LHT28 - you sound like a company employee! Rah rah!

I wish!!

Then I could cruise more on Oceania. :D

[Andee]

I'm surprised that so many people lost money. But maybe they paid cash and didn't get insurance.

 

We were booked to go on a Ren cruise that was scheduled to leave four days after they went bankrupt. Since we had charged the cruise, we wrote to Visa, and had the full amount back within three weeks. We had also purchased the insurance, so could have relied on that if Visa wasn't willing to refund our money. Visa told us that Ren had to post a $1 billion bond to do business in the US, so Visa just yanked our money back.

 

We've been on two Oceania cruises, and they quickly became our favorite line. We always buy insurance when we have to pre-pay for a trip, be it a cruise, or something else--and the Ren situation is a good reason to buy insurance from a company other than the cruise line.

[derricj]

The world is full of cruise ships. Lots of choices in the market place. If you are uncomfortable with one provider, simply purchase from one that you will be comfortable. Credit cards and insurance are just a couple of the many options available to protect one's self from an unfortunate event rather than worry about whether or not some company folds the tent.

If none of these options appeal to you, then find another way to travel.

Happy trails:D

[serendipity1499]

I wasn't worried either when I booked my cruise with Renaissance. No one announces that they will be going under in the near future and suggests you not do business with them. After the Renaissance fiasco, some travel insurance companies no longer cover bankruptcy. So I suggest you check your policy to be sure you get that coverage.quote]

 

I'm retired from the travel business & have seen many providers & Agents go into Bankruptcy & completely understand your concern..And you are correct no one announces they are going out of business...That's why we always purchase our Insurance directly from a third party..Would never purchase Travel Insurance through a Travel Agent or a Cruise Line..We'll be on our first Oceania cruise in Nov. & used Insure-my-trip.com after comparing all the policies. You must read each policy very carefully...

 

However, don't know of any policy that will not cover for Bankruptcy, if you purchase it through a disinterested third party..Believe you are misinterpreting the bankruptcy clause on Insurance policy's.. Insurance will not pay for bankruptcy of the cruise provider if you purchased both the cruise & the insurance through the provider...IE: If Oceania goes bankrupt & you purchased both your cruise & the insurance through Oceania

then Insurance will not pay... That is one good reason to purchase your insurance though a third party..And be sure to read each policy very carefully.. On the side panel of Insure my trip you can get a list of all the providers that will not be covered by each individual policy.. I called the Insurance Co. (Travel guard-Travelex) when we had a question & their Agent was more than happy to assist me..

 

When you lost your money you, either purchased your Insurance through Renaissance, an associated Agent or did not purchase Insurance at all..

 

As another poster said, both Oceania & Azamara (& perhaps Princess) have purchased the old Renaissance ships..

 

There is a long thread about Insurance policies & the bankruptcy clauses on either this board or the HAL board..Will try to find it for you & come back to post the link..Betty

[serendipity1499]

Further to my post the Travelex policy reads: Your are covered for trip cancellation:

 

"Unforeseen bankruptcy or default of a travel provider other than the Travel agency or organization from who you purchased the Travel arrangements which stops service after your covered trip departure or more than 14 days following your protection plan effective date..The coverage applies if purchased only within 21 days from the date of initial deposit etc etc"

 

So that proves it's never wise to purchase Insurance from a Service provider..

 

Most policies read the same...We would purchase an Access America or Travel guard Travelex lite policy & get it after making our initial deposit..Betty

[mike35]

I'm retired from the travel business & have seen many providers & Agents go into Bankruptcy & completely understand your concern..And you are correct no one announces they are going out of business...That's why we always purchase our Insurance directly from a third party..Would never purchase Travel Insurance through a Travel Agent or a Cruise Line.

 

Although this thread is about worries over booking an ex-Renaissance ship, I had to comment on Betty's rant against purchasing travel insurance from a Travel Agent. I agree with her comments about purchasing from a cruise line for reasons previously stated. But as a TA, I offer (and try to insist) that they purchase their travel insurance from an outstanding 3rd party company that is tops in the industry.

 

Back to the OP's comments. We've sailed on four Oceania cruises, and I've never had any worries whatsoever that they would repeat the mistakes made by Renaissance. As to the "Guru" referred to by the OP, Oceania's CEO, Frank Del Rio, has proven since Oceania's inception that he is on top of Oceania's performance, and he has gone to great lengths to listen to Oceania's cruisers concerns and personally see to their satisfactory resolution. Oceania's legions of repeat cruisers speak volumes about its customer satisfaction. And no, I'm not in any way an employee of Oceania.

[Benita]

Mike, What happens if you purchase the third party travel insurance from your travel agency and the travel agency goes under? Is there any advantage to purchasing this coverage from the travel agency vs buying it from http://www.insuremytrip.com ? Whenever we travel, the agent always includes a pamphelet from an insurance agency, like Access America or Travelguard. I like the insure my trip web site, because I can compare lots of policies.

[Leonid]

I have used both InsureMyTrip.com & TripInsuranceStore.com...much prefer the latter. As I have stated in another thread, with the latter, one only has to pay a minimum up front to secure the pre-exisitng condition waiver. And yes I have looked into policies that will let you get the pre-exisiting condition waived when you pay your final cruise payment...found that they were more than what I could get through TripUnsuranceStore.com. And no, I do not work for either agency.

[meow!]

We were also booked with Renaissance when it went under. We used our American Express card for payment, and got back every penny we paid "automatically", no questions asked! Oceania is now far from Renaissance, and in any case it has been bought out by a large corporation, and its former owners, while remaining as executives, have become minor share holders in the new corporate ownership.

[hondorner]

LHT28 - you sound like a company employee! Rah rah!

And, you sound like someone who is trying to raise an old and discredited story in some lame attempt to discredit Oceania. Are you an Azamara employee?

[Rickey 88]

And, you sound like someone who is trying to raise an old and discredited story in some lame attempt to discredit Oceania. Are you an Azamara employee?

 

My thoughts exactly - I have become completely skeptical of those very few posters who seem to have some sort of ax to grind. Without exception, it seems their complaining is their very first post under whatever name they've chosen.

 

Unfortunately, they do elicit replies - when the best course would be to simply ignore them.....

[meow!]

Your cat icon is lovely. "St. Louis" was registered with this board since October, 2001, not one who registers today to complain tomorrow. Perhaps he/she has not read this board for years, and honestly does not know what has been going on?!

[Benita]

I think it is important to learn history - helps to stop it from repeating itself. Many people learned a great deal from Renaissance's bankruptcy - buying insurance from a third party is just one lesson. Being wary of a company with the same ships and some of the same administrators, after the reprehensible way people were stranded after the bankruptcy is understandable. Those of us who got past it and love Oceania feel protective of the company, myself included, but I am the first to point out, when ever insurance issues are brought up on any board I frequent, how important it is to choose your insurer wisely, pointing out the Renaissance situation as the example.

[owl61]

Insurance may or may not be advisable to the extent it protects against certain risks, but nonperformance/bankruptcy of a cruise line or agent is not a relevant consideration. After all, credit cards are the almost universal method of paying for a cruise. If you don't use them for such purchases, you should. As indicated by a couple of prior posters the rules and by laws of Visa, Mastercard, Amex etc all provide that if the goods or services paid for with the card are not provided, the cardholder has a right to a credit back for the amount of the purchase. The cardholder's bank ( the card issuer) will submit the credit demand back to the seller's bank via the card interchange system. The seller's bank ( which is in the best position to know about the creditworthiness of it's customer) can debit it's customer deposit accounts, but (absent a performance bond) it will eat the loss if there are insufficient seller funds on deposit. There is no controversy in the case of a total non-performance due to bankruptcy to cloud the right of chargeback. It's standard operating procedure. I believe the rules for debit cards are identical.

If the issuing bank or the seller's bank were to refuse to accede to the demand for a credit, they would subject themselves to a very good lawsuit that would probably include damages several orders of magnitude greater than the amount of the charge involved ergo they don't reject the chargeback.

[LHT28]

Being wary of a company with the same ships and some of the same administrators, after the reprehensible way people were stranded after the bankruptcy is understandable.

Sorry but I don't understand this statement

..if they had used other ships then you would still associate the same administrators with REN even though the some of those people were "let go" months before for the bankruptcy??

[WindrunnerII]

I think it is important to learn history - helps to stop it from repeating itself. Many people learned a great deal from Renaissance's bankruptcy - buying insurance from a third party is just one lesson. Being wary of a company with the same ships and some of the same administrators, after the reprehensible way people were stranded after the bankruptcy is understandable. Those of us who got past it and love Oceania feel protective of the company, myself included, but I am the first to point out, when ever insurance issues are brought up on any board I frequent, how important it is to choose your insurer wisely, pointing out the Renaissance situation as the example.

 

Benita,

 

your point about always taking third-party insurance - no matter WHO the line our tour operator is - is sage advice.

 

But it is also worth pointing out that Oceania is not the same administrators as Ren. When Ren went belly-up, it was owned by Malvern Maritime and the CEO was Manfred Urpsrunger who came from Celebrity.

 

ALWAYS pay with a CC, check out what fraud/bankreuptcy protection your CC affords and ALWAYS take third-party insurance.

 

If you're tempted to pay by cash/check, use the CC instead and write the check to your CC bank.

 

PS - just returned from a PHENOMENAL cruise aboard Insignia. Oceania manages to surpass my previous expereinces with each cruise and that's not easy to do! :p

[Winner]

Although I read it daily, I don't often post on the Oceania board but I have two general comments on this thread:

 

Meow--The OP may have registered in 2001 but all of his 3 postings were on August 24, 2007, all unkind toward a cruise line that was nonexistent in 2001.

 

Benita--Insurance purchased through a TA that goes under is still valid. Travel agents act only as an "agent" for the insurer and unless you foolishly paid by cash or check for your insurance, there is no problem. Pay by cc and your only worry is if the insurer declares bankruptcy.

[Lane40]

As this website is named Cruise Critic, I decided to look up the definition of critic as the original poster has taken many shots to the body and head over the original post.

 

Pronunciation: 'kri-tik

Function: noun

Etymology: Latin criticus, from Greek kritikos, from kritikos able to discern or judge, from krinein

1 a : one who expresses a reasoned opinion on any matter especially involving a judgment of its value, truth, righteousness, beauty, or technique b : one who engages often professionally in the analysis, evaluation, or appreciation of works of art or artistic performances

2 a : one given to harsh or captious judgment b: one who censures or finds fault; c: a harsh examiner or judge; a caviler; a carper.

 

After reviewing the definition of a critic, I can find no fault with St. Louis original post. The definition of critic says nothing about sugar coating an issue or only expressing positive or good views.

 

Like St. Louis and others in this thread, my family and I were dismayed with the Renaissance bankruptcy. We did receive our money back for the cruise, but some family members never recovered their airline fares as the airlines only gave the money back as a voucher that had to be spent on future air travel. The vouchers had so many stipulations that it made it impossible to use. It has been a few years now, but I think the money lost on the airfares was just under $6,000 for my family.

 

We are cruising on the Nautica in June 2008. I will admit to being leery of booking a cruise that had any type of connection to the old Renaissance, whether through former executives or ships. Perhaps it was superstition or still upset over the money lost. Obviously we have got over the issue and now look forward to a wonderful experience aboard the Nautica.

[DrHemlock]

Here's a little caveat to owl61's post about credit card reimbursement in case of bankruptcy, based on personal experience.

 

Like many others here, I was fully reimbursed for a cancelled cruise by Diners Club upon Ren's demise. So far, so good.

 

But a similar situation years later using my CitiBank MasterCard did not turn out so well. A $14,000 deposit on a kitchen remodel with a licensed and bonded contractor was followed by design work but nothing else. Finally, after nine months, my existing kitchen was demolished in preparation for construction and installation of the new. Guess when the company chose to close up shop and file for bankruptcy! That's right.

 

So I contacted CitiBank to get my deposit refunded, or at least a pro rata part of it, since my kitchen had been demo'ed and I did have a bunch of drawings in my hand. They said, "Nope, not a cent. It's been too long since you made the charge. The complaint period ends after sixty days." My argument that the charge was a deposit for a service that was never performed carried no weight, and I was out the money. Not to mention having no kitchen and needing to find a new contractor to take over the job.

 

The point may be that it depends upon which card you use. I would have no qualms with American Express or Diners Club, as they are premium cards for which we pay a higher membership fee. I would feel less confident with a run-of-the-mill Visa or MasterCard.

 

In the end, third-party trip cancellation insurance that includes a bankruptcy clause is your safest bet.