Has Cruising Jumped The Shark?

[krystalkruzer]

As a new cruiser I disagree with the OP.Making cruising more accessible is not "watering it down".Actually that is how Carnival first started out.Yet there are still people living in the past, meaning Titanic era,who seem to have an issue with cruising being made more affordable and accessible for everybody.Just because someone is like that it does not give them the right to belittle present day cruising and its clientèle !

[glgolfer]

Three Rings - We've been cruising since 1987. Some of what the OP says is true. But, we have cruised 25 times with RCI, once each with HAL, NCL, Cunard (QM2) and Crystal and have never had a bad cruise.

 

The service has always been excellent, the food has been from excellent to good (never bad), Royal Caribbean ships are the prettiest and best designed on the ocean, any complaint we have had has been handled quicky and efficiently (it generally depends on how you approach the problem and the person you're dealing with what kind of response you get and the cabins are very well designed with much storage space.

 

A cruise is still the most bang for the buck.

 

You will have a great time.

[Happy ks]

According to the Oxford Dictionary, whinging = "a whining complaint or a peevish grumbling".

 

 

OK, I sort of thought so, in my dictionary there is no such word. There is whining, though :)

[KC_fn]

But after reading so many of the threads here, I'm starting to have second thoughts. All of the things the OP sited in this thread are making me realize that maybe cruising just isn't going to be our cup of tea after all.

 

We don't like rude people, and I'm getting more and more concerned that we will be stuck for over a week with people who don't know how to behave. We were/are looking forward to the ammenities on the ship, but I don't want to be in a situation where some stranger has the ability to ruin my use of the ship, and the staff won't even enforce the rules.

 

 

Please don't be discouraged. There are no more or fewer rude people on a cruise ship than anywhere else. Despite some of the debates that rage on these boards, it's pretty rare that a stranger can ruin your cruise. No, you shouldn't expect perfection, nor should you expect everyone to be dressed like a cruise advertisement at all times. Cruising, like pretty much everything else in life, is what you make it. You don't strike me as the hyper-critical type; if that's the case, and if you're willing to be a little forgiving, I think you'll have alot of fun. :)

[wieslaw]

After 17 cruises in the past 9 years, I'm starting to think the bloom is off the rose. Our cruise on the MAASDAM in July was indicative of just how far Holland-America's standards seemed to have fallen from the last time we were on the AMSTERDAM. While we still like 'em well enough, (best of all, considering what we've seen and heard lately) we have seen declines in the quality of Celebrity's food - once their signature. Friends who just returned from Alaska on a Princess cruise were appalled by what they found on board and were - until last week - big Princess fans. Our last QM2 cruise couldn't hold a candle in terms of overall quality to our previous QE2 and CARONIA cruises.

 

More than the cutbacks we see in terms of food quality and staffing levels (cabin stewards seem to have had twice as many cabins as before, waiters are overwhelmed, wine costs much more, the luxury items on the menu have disappeared, portions are smaller) or in the absence of the small touches that once distinguished one ship or line from another, the worst trend I've seen is the increasing non-responsiveness of management: "We're sorry" used to mean something. How do I know? Because it lead to fixing the problem being apologized for. Now it seems an empty phrase because while one's complaint is acknowledged, too often no improvement or change results: the service/food/plumbing problems continue.

 

To be fair, it's most often not the Front Desk/housekeeper's/maitre d's fault, but it used to be within their power to fix. More and more they can't seem to fix a problem because they're so overwhelmed by the sheer volume of complaints, or can't because they don't have the resources to do so, or as a consequence of both have just given up. On one hand, I can't say that I blame them: they know better than me how much worse things have gotten. On the other, who else do you go to?

 

Despite thick manuals in the cabin detailing the "do's and don'ts" of cruise etiquette and expected behavior for those without either common sense or simple courtesy; time after time, on cruise after cruise, we see breaches of basic issues of health, safety, and comfort ignored by shipboard staff. Smoking happens wherever and whenever, regardless of whatever the rules are; toddlers in diapers in the hot tub has become a regular occurrence when we sail, and the rowdy-unto-vulgar behavior of some kids (and worse, some adults) are all - increasingly - the rule, not the exception. I surmise they're afraid to enforce their own rules for fear of offending the customers who don't follow them. When will they realize that in so doing, they're losing those of us who do?

 

I know that in real dollar terms the price of a cruise is as low or lower than it was nine years ago, but to me the decline in standards - however defined - far exceeds the decline in cost. It has got me thinking that cruising is no longer what it was, that the hassle isn't offset by the reward, and that my vacation dollars will soon go elsewhere. I know too that the industry's model is, increasingly, not to retain experienced cruisers like me but to court new ones.

 

There's an economic contraction coming in the US, one that coincides with an unprecedented number of berths to fill as newer and bigger ships enter service. The fall in housing prices alone will result in a reduction in discretionary spending, and this isn't the only cloud on the economic horizon that puts more pressure on the cruise industry. To me, even the lower prices we can expect to result from increased competition and a tougher economic environment can't offset the reduced value of the experience.

 

Am I alone in this conclusion or basing it on a few bad experiences? Do those of you who've been cruising for years agree or not? I'd be interested in your thoughts.

 

 

Hello,

 

I have been on about the same number of cruises as you have and started 'vacation cruising' in 1990 . My very first cruise was in 1959. My last cruise was in April of this year.

Most of my cruises were on Regency, Celebrity and Royal Caribbean.

Yes, I have noticed some differences in cruising over the years but none of them would I consider very important or important enough to prevent me from cruising. I am not a very demending 'cruiser' so I did not require 'much' in the past and I am still happy with what 'they' offered on my last cruise on the Explorer of the Seas.

I can understand all the cost cutting - I do not have the exact numbers what I did pay for a similar cruise in the 90s and now, but from what I remember, appears to me it is lower now than it was then ( and I am not even looking at the lower value of the money now - just the numbers ). I also know that most things ( fuel, food, cost of new ships) cost more now than in the 90s ........ so somethings had to be cut back in order to make the cruising still affordable to so many ( in 90 about 4.5 million people cruised - in 2006 I believe was close to 13 million ).

Whatever was eliminated new cruiser will never know and will not miss it, for the 'old' cruisers cruising is still a good value IMO.

I have never been on the more expensive cruise lines but they would be an option for me if I find the popular / mass market lines not acceptable for me, so far that is not the case for me.

 

I guess I have been lucky so far and never had a bad cruise experience, some cruises were better than others but none was bad for me.

 

Wes

[bUU]

In my experience, the same is said about just about everything in life. I frequent a few Disney-related forums, and every year for the past 22 years, people have been lamenting the decline of Walt Disney World. It is human nature to have fond memories of the past, and to magnify more recent negative experiences in one's mind while forgetting less recent negative experiences. Also, folks get attached to the way things were at a certain time of their life, typically when they were younger, so react negatively to any change, no matter what its context or effect.

 

What I've found, in general, is that the world isn't ending anytime soon. Every year things change; some things get better, some things get worse, but overall I'd rather live today than live 22 years ago. YMMV.

[firefly333]

Try Disney. From everything I hear they are enforcing the rules, adult only areas are still adult only areas and because of so few ships they can add the special touches. Many adults love Disney because of the 5 star rating and wonderful service.

[gizmo]

Hi Bostum,

 

I also cruise on HAL and agree with you. Things have changed. In all fairness there are some good changes like the bedding, but I don't think it really out weighs things that have gone down hill.

 

New cruisers have no idea what you are talking about. Accusing you of winging, whining, whatever, is ridiculous .

 

That crack about Mr. Lincoln is absurd.

[caviargal]

In my part of the world, we call the OP's original post "whinging".

 

I do not think that I was "scolding" him/her, merely expressing my reaction to the post. My main reason for doing so was because of the posts that followed, when several people appeared apprehensive about cruising because of the OP's negativity.

 

Just because I expressed my opinion and volunteered some observations, please do not assume that I am lacking in "common sense", "cruise etiquette" and "simple courtesy".

 

I stand by my opinion that the OP wants elitist service and, for that, he/she should be prepared to pay premium prices, not to expect that level of service at prices that are comparable to hotels (without the meals and travel thrown in).

 

That was how your post came across to me as well, as disparaging the opinions rather than simply expressing your POV. Nor do I consider the OP's post to be negative, just a practical discussion of how cruising has changed.

 

IMO, new cruisers in general will not have preconceived notions of what to expect and are likely to be satisfied. Those of us that have been cruising awhile are more likely to consider the cruise experience to be watered down; this keeps cost low (at first glance) and ships full.

 

And I am not sure what you consider "elitist" service:confused:. I prefer very good service with a dining room staffed to handle the number of passengers needing to be served. Staff levels continue to decrease and the size of the stations increase. This is quite noticeable and has nothing to do with being "elitist". Food quality has suffered in order for the lines to make a profit. More prepared and packaged foods are used (soup made from mixes versus made from fresh ingredients, etc.) and there is less personal service. In the "old" days, dressings were served onto the salad by the assistant waiter, vegetables the same. This is no longer the case on mass market lines.

 

The new version of cruising on mass market lines holds far less appeal to me than it used to and I really have no interest in more of those experiences. That does not make me a snob, but one who prefers to spend my money on vacations that make me happy. That would be one luxury cruise instead of 3 mass market ones, or a land vacation, my preference.

[johno95]

very well written.

 

In my experience, the same is said about just about everything in life. I frequent a few Disney-related forums, and every year for the past 22 years, people have been lamenting the decline of Walt Disney World. It is human nature to have fond memories of the past, and to magnify more recent negative experiences in one's mind while forgetting less recent negative experiences. Also, folks get attached to the way things were at a certain time of their life, typically when they were younger, so react negatively to any change, no matter what its context or effect.

 

What I've found, in general, is that the world isn't ending anytime soon. Every year things change; some things get better, some things get worse, but overall I'd rather live today than live 22 years ago. YMMV.

[bostom]

...and that's my point. One you missed.

 

The play President and Mrs. Lincoln were watching that awful night was "Our American Cousin" and judging from the way you spell "behaviour" and use the word "whinging" I presume you might be too. Perhaps you favor the British "mustn't grumble" approach? Tell us, please, how doing so would improve what one sees as a declining situation?

 

I'm taken back more by the tone than the substance of your reply, but no matter. I can't disagree with you - the food and service on most any ship is better than that found at my house but isn't that the point? It's not my house and it's marketed, if no longer "delivered" to the same degree, as something much better. I mean, if we went camping or traveling in a motorhome I'd have a different set of expectations - and would be paying different prices.

 

Let us assume that rather than discussing cruising, gasoline was our topic. If you'd just bought your first car, you couldn't know you weren't getting as much pickup had you bought lower-quality gasoline (or petrol.) If, instead, you'd been driving for years and noticed your car was running slower each time you filled the tank, would it be unseemly to wonder if it was just you - or that maybe there was something missing from the brand of gas you were buying, or something about the car itself that was the cause, and asked if others had noticed the same thing? This, or something like it, makes one a "whinger"?

 

It's not my intention to discourage anyone from trying a cruise. In fact, I pointed out that the intent of the lines seems to be getting new folks to cruise when it once seemed the marketing emphasis was on retaining the repeat passengers. The genesis of my post was an e-mail from a friend, just back from Alaska on a Princess cruise the other day, who'd had an awful time. She and her Mom had sailed with Princess for years and had loved it. On the cruise just ended she'd been blown away by the "180 turn" (as she put it) in the management's attitudes: polite requests to remedy solvable (or at least once-solvable) problems were met with shrugs or disdain.

 

She wrote that the quality of food - in absolute, measurable terms - had declined. Her Mom, an 85 year old diabetic who must eat on a schedule, was served dinner at 8 one night, having been seated at 6. Yogurt was on the breakfast menu, but unavailable. Kids without any supervision were running through the dining room at dinnertime and the staff was unwilling or unable (perhaps for fear of losing tips?) to demand the parents' take charge of them, nor did their bosses (the maitre d's or captains or managers) act either. As their behavior put elderly passengers at risk (they can fall over when pushed, food can fall on them if waiters are pushed...), I was amazed to hear it. This is by no means a comprehensive list of what she saw and found surprising because it was at odds with her prior experiences. She's a professor at Stanford who grew up commuting to and from Hawaii on the LURLINE as a kid in the 50's and 60's and has a good deal of cred as far as cruising goes: her perspective is a lot longer than mine.

 

We'd experienced the same things on a HAL cruise last month on so many levels that it too gave us pause: Holland-America used to be (for us, anyway) the gold standard, just as Princess had been for her. Today? - at least on the MAASDAM? - lead. It wasn't the case for us, but tablemates and cabin neighbors both had no operable toilets for significant parts of the cruise. Few if any of us remember the days when a private bath was a cabin upgrade, but nowadays imagine using the ship's public toilets for a week because you couldn't use the one in your cabin for which you'd paid? We'd never seen anything like it before and were amazed to read - in other posts here on CC - that this problem goes back years on this ship. If I'm an elitist for wanting the toilets to work, so be it. I'm a damn fool for not doing my homework, perhaps...but that was by no means the only problem.

 

As to the "upscale" suggestions; "perhaps" as well, but past experience on Crystal and comparing old and new experiences on Cunard didn't make us think the difference in cost translated into sufficiently tangible differences in quality. I freely admit to being spoiled: our first two cruises were legs (a year apart) of the QE2's annual round-the-world cruise in Queen's Grill accommodations. It's all been downhill, in absolute terms, from there. It would have to be as at one time that was held out as the best there was. And it sure seemed to be as far as we were concerned. I don't expect to find that level of attention (to us and to detail) nowadays but it's not $1000 a day apiece either. That hasn't stopped us from taking the next 15 cruises, though, and with roughly equal experience on HAL and Celebrity, we've seen the quality decline from cruise to cruise on both lines. That doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the subsequent cruises, either: we bring friends and/or make new ones, see new places, and enjoy ourselves or we wouldn't do it roughly twice a year. But things seem different now, and not "better" different.

 

Your "jaded" might more charitably be seen instead as "experienced" and thus have greater value for just that reason. We've seen enough, good and bad, to be able to say something based on a variety of situations, on a number of different ships, over a decade. Every cruise is a snapshot, and one that is objectively "awful" this week could be "great" the next. I am aware that the price points cruises now sell for are considerably lower - a week, over New Years, in a nice outside cabin, can (or at least could, earlier this year) be booked on HAL for under $1000 pp. I know this, and said so.

 

But that's just the lines. What several people here have alluded to, and which I also see - is the behavior of the passengers. Unless it impinges on me it's not my place to critique the behavior of others. But when people take seeming pride in pissing others off by their behavior; some of it bad, some of it boorish, some just blatantly awful TIME AND AGAIN and you can't escape them for a week or two, well, "Yes", it's time to move on.

[celle]

Bostom,

 

Where I come from is irrelevant and I don't need a lesson on literature - I have a degree in it.

 

I see from your previous postings that the topic of declining standards is close to your heart. I also see that you have not been backward in criticizing others who do not agree with your point of view.

 

I totally agree that toilets should work. When ours blocked, it was fixed within half an hour, so I cannot relate to your contention that slow response times and poor maintenance are common.

 

While I see some control of passenger behaviour as the responsibility of the cruise lines, particularly when it affects the health and safety of other passengers (kids in nappies in the pool, for example) I would not just observe bad behaviour and then come home and complain about it on the boards. I would approach staff at the time.

 

While I may not have had your years of experience of cruising, I have travelled extensively and have reached an age where I have considerable life experience.

 

We don't agree. Both of us have that right. Can we just accept that our views, while different, are equally valid?

[bostom]

Bostom,

 

Where I come from is irrelevant and I don't need a lesson on literature - I have a degree in it.

 

I see from your previous postings that the topic of declining standards is close to your heart. I also see that you have not been backward in criticizing others who do not agree with your point of view.

 

I totally agree that toilets should work. When ours blocked, it was fixed within half an hour, so I cannot relate to your contention that slow response times and poor maintenance are common.

 

While I see some control of passenger behaviour as the responsibility of the cruise lines, particularly when it affects the health and safety of other passengers (kids in nappies in the pool, for example) I would not just observe bad behaviour and then come home and complain about it on the boards. I would approach staff at the time.

 

While I may not have had your years of experience of cruising, I have travelled extensively and have reached an age where I have considerable life experience.

 

We don't agree. Both of us have that right. Can we just accept that our views, while different, are equally valid?

 

When the score is 17 to 2, no.

 

Name calling is not my m.o. A detailed - rather than your superficial and nasty - discussion of where we differ serves some purpose. Your response serves none. Had you read any of my posts, you'd see one common thread is my observation that problems no longer get dealt with: it's shrugs and "sorry's" and nothing changes. That - in my experience, not my opinion - is something new.

 

When cruises we've been on were good, I've said so. When not, I've said so too. Why do you have a problem with my asking if others see the same trend?

[celle]

When the score is 17 to 2, no.

 

Name calling is not my m.o. A detailed - rather than your superficial and nasty - discussion of where we differ serves some purpose. Your response serves none. Had you read any of my posts, you'd see one common thread is my observation that problems no longer get dealt with: it's shrugs and "sorry's" and nothing changes. That - in my experience, not my opinion - is something new.

 

When cruises we've been on were good, I've said so. When not, I've said so too. Why do you have a problem with my asking if others see the same trend?

 

I did read all of your posts. I would not have commented on their content if I had not.

 

Is "superficial and nasty" not name calling in your book?

 

Initially, I did respond more fully to your lengthy post, but decided to spare other readers, so shortened my response.

 

I made my peace overture. You rejected it. I now retire, leaving you to have the last word, if you wish.

[Michael Kays]

I got your back celle~

[klct39lg]

Slightly off topic...

 

Will there be a decline or lull of U.S. cruisers when passports are

 

absolutely required?

[BobBeaSea]

Slightly off topic...

 

Will there be a decline or lull of U.S. cruisers when passports are

 

absolutely required?

 

Hard to say, on a per capita basis Americans always had the lowest number of passports of Western industrialised countries. The destinations most Americans travelled to outside the U.S. didn't require passports, most still don't. The need for the passport is to leave and enter the States. Since the hemisphere initative came into being Americans have lined up by the millions to get passports. I can tell you that passports being required for land travel between the U.S., Canada and Mexico in 2008 will kill cross border traffic, there is not a border town who isn't deeply concerned with this.

 

As to your question, there could be a lull. An example would be a family of 4 or 5 who want to go on a rare vacation outside the U.S. Will they lay out the bucks for passports for a one time only vacation outside the U.S.? That's the million dollar question that has everyone in the tourism/vacation industry is waiting for an answer.

 

For the OP, I've got your back...I know exactly where you are coming from. :)

[GottaLuvCruising]

Cruising is just more relaxed with mass market lines, ridiculously low fares and enormous ships. Many people (myself included) prefer it that way.

 

But there are options for everyone. The atmosphere the OP enjoys is also available...he / she may just have to look for the cruise line that is the best fit.

[klct39lg]

Hard to say, on a per capita basis Americans always had the lowest number of passports of Western industrialised countries. The destinations most Americans travelled to outside the U.S. didn't require passports, most still don't. The need for the passport is to leave and enter the States. Since the hemisphere initative came into being Americans have lined up by the millions to get passports. I can tell you that passports being required for land travel between the U.S., Canada and Mexico in 2008 will kill cross border traffic, there is not a border town who isn't deeply concerned with this.

 

As to your question, there could be a lull. An example would be a family of 4 or 5 who want to go on a rare vacation outside the U.S. Will they lay out the bucks for passports for a one time only vacation outside the U.S.? That's the million dollar question that has everyone in the tourism/vacation industry is waiting for an answer.

 

For the OP, I've got your back...I know exactly where you are coming from. :)

 

We are a family of 4 and we have been on 2 cruises and are just now applying for our passports. Had we not already experienced cruising, I know that we wouldn't be concerned about having passports at this time. We would have continued to vacation in the U.S. However, it's too late for us now, we are hooked on the cruise vacation.

:)

[martinimadam]

Some thread!

 

Here's my take. I've been on about 25 cruises in the last 20 years. Not as diverse a group of lines as some: HAL (used to love them!), Carnival (not to my taste), Princess (could take or leave depending on the itinerary, though haven't been on one in many years), and Crystal (my absolute favorite!).

 

Several years ago I did notice a difference in HAL. Then they got rid of my favorite ship, the old Noordam. She was the coziest ship, and I'd sailed on her so long that I knew many of the crew and always felt like I was coming home each time I boarded her.

 

I finally decided to bite the bullet and leave the mass market lines. The ships were just getting too big for my taste.

 

Tried Crystal, and was hooked. Nice small ships, lovely quality, and though more expensive, with their single supplement much lower than most of the mass markets, I can almost afford to cruise as much as I used to. As another poster said, I'd rather sail a few less times in my life, but, have every cruise meet/exceed my expectations.

 

But each of us must make our own decisions according to our tastes. I love the formal evenings. The crew has become like family. I prefer assigned seating for dinner, etc., etc.

 

For those of you embarking on your first cruise, all I can say is, "Have a great time. I know you will". After experimenting a bit, you'll find a line/ship that doesn't just meet, but, exceeds your expectations...

[caviargal]

Crystal is on my list for sure. The only concern I have is the fixed dining times and limited tables for 2. We prefer to dine alone when not sailing with friends and for the price of a Crystal cruise, I would want to be guaranteed a table for 2.

 

This is why Regent is tops for me.

[martinimadam]

OK, I know this is off-topic, but, to answer Caviargirl, Crytal's ships have plenty of tables for two, if that's whats keeping you from joining us on these great ships. The open seating is what keeps me from trying Regent! To each her own....

[sayaguru]

...

judging from the way you spell "behaviour" and use the word "whinging" I presume you might be too. Perhaps you favor the British "mustn't grumble" approach?

 

.

 

In case you didn't realise not all countries have the same spellings as Americans.

"Behaviour" is the English (and Australian spelling)

 

We spell whingeing with the "e" (so the magic "e" can tell the g to sound like a j :D

That's the kindergarten teacher in me coming out.

 

This is the first time I've seen a heated discussion on this forum. Interesting reading.

[KLLund]

Three Rings

 

We love cruising .. we don't mind the kids ( it's the parents that won't control a few that annoy us ) .. we love meeting all kinds of new people .. we enjoy being waited on and any meal I didn't cook and is served beautifully is just great by me ... I love having my cabin cleaned and my bed turned down with a mint on the pillow .. I love the ocean breezes ..and the sound of the waves...

 

In short .. try cruising .. you will likely be hooked like a lot of us ..

 

And believe me .. that leave the driving to others and being catered to for a week is worth a lot !!

 

Go and have a totally fabulous time!!

[stellalimelight]

You will love cruising. I did Regent when it was Radisson on the Paul Gauguin and loved it. I am getting to ready to leave on a b2b on Princess Monday. It will be my 5 & 6 cruise with them. I enjoyed each and every one. I have had excellent service on both lines. I had some minor issues on one cruise, but it was resolved quickly.

 

However, I can see if people who have cruised from the Golden Era of cruising, that some of the changes that have taken place may not be of their liking. I can assume this is why Crystal & Seabourne are making a nice niche in the world of cruising.

 

Having said that. Enjoy your cruise. Attitude is everything. I go believing I am going to have the best time of my life and I usually do.