Why Not Call it Charity instead of Tipping?

[In2why]

Ever had a soda drink card?:confused: When you purchase them the 15% gratuity is automatically added.

 

When you go to the bar or catch a waiter, it takes forever to get a drink.:mad:

 

Then it is placed in a completely different glass so at a quick glance the barmen or waiter can see if they will get a tip for their services. Unfortunally, they have missed out on a additional tip.

 

Do you have to show them the card when you order the soda? Or can you go to the bar and ask for a soda and then show them the card?

[johnritt]

I have always gotten soda cards for the kids and recall the slow service for them too.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the tip was somewhere around $6 per card. I sure the little darlings drank 5 sodas each a day ("after all, tt is my vacastion too, daddy"). That works out to something around 17 cents per glass of soda for a tip.

 

I never have had them tip extra before, but on our next cruise I think I may (my pocket, of course).

 

I'm sure they will get faster service anyway.

[woodey]

You have no idea how many hours I work. That has nothing to do with the discussion, imo.

 

 

I ask again, is it possible to adjust the portion of the tip that is allocated to the wait staff for a particular person only? It just isn't right to penalize the kitchen and buffet staff if I happen to get dreadful service in the dining room.

I am not sure because i have not done this...but why Punish your stewart by lowering the auto tip...if i did do that i would explain to the stewart what i did and make up the difference to him on cash..

[dan40]

Im glad Im not your server in a restaurant. Yikes.... people are human to me and Im able to get over it if they forget something. Iv even had a bad cabin steward and tipped him. He was always slow and late, forgot to give us stuff, came into the room when I had the sign out "do not disturb". Guess I still feel that I should tip. I think he did the best he could do, just was not meant for that job.

 

You actually did a disservice to that poor performer and to ALL cruisers saddled with him in future. Good service should be rewarded, poor service SHOULD be punished. He will never get his act together when people like you reward him for nothing. He has a responsibility to you to perform at least at an acceptable level. If all would withhold his tips when he doesn't perform, he would have to find work more suited to his talents. And he would be happier and have more self-respect.

 

I am as tough as anybody on these boards when it comes to cheapos stiffing the help when they provides their normal good to great service. But tipping for bad service seems morally wrong and IS just dumb.

Only once in 48 cruises have I had a waiter that was poor. [if you look up poor service in a dictionary, his picture is there] He got tipped a quarter for an 11 day cruise [i didn't have a penny, nickle, or dime in my pocket], the asst. waiter got well over tipped as he worked his buns off to serve everyone very well.

 

Dan

[dan40]

TIPS, IMO, are for good service. If I don't receive good service, I'm lowering my auto tip. I'm not picky either. I want a clean cabin, fresh towels, turn down service from my cabin steward. I'd like my server to remember what I order and be pleasant. Is this too much?

 

I'm sick of all these posters stating that they would NEVER remove or lower the automatic gratuities no matter what the service was like b/c those poor stewards, waiters, etc. are from 3rd world countries and send all of their money home to their families, etc. If I get poor service, I will lower the tip or remove it all together and explain why. I don't care where the steward or server is from or how many children they have starving in some godforsaken place, if they don't do a good job, they're not getting any money from me. If I wanted to tip them just because their poor, then lets just quit calling it tipping and call it charity.

 

Few here would not agree with you, tips should be for good service. Tips should not be about ANYTHING else, their home, their income, their kids, are not factors. Only their service. I tip the porters at the dock for handling my bags even tho they are stevedore union members and are probably making double time and a half for working a weekend. And tip them again when the ship returns. Funny, I read that some can't find a porter when they want to get their bags out of the warehouse at the end of a cruise. I have them approach me and ask which bag color are mine! Remember they are the same guys that took the bags at departure.

 

Dan

[freedomrider]

It's a very personal thing, this tipping. Do what you want, and don't judge others, as everyone has a different idea of what good service really is.

 

 

I read this thread with some amusement, because the tipping discussions are usually popcorn and beer worthy. I have never participated...just been entertained. However, I had to respond to this based on my personal experience. I know one person that I will judge, because regardless of the service provided this person thinks that xx.xx dollars is enough, regardless of the amount of the bill. For example, at a business dinner at Don Shula's 5 of us had a very large bill (in my opinion...I don't go to places like that much). He thought a $20.00 tip was plenty...considerably less than 10% of the bill. His thinking is that the server just doesn't have to do that much. In this case I will judge him as cheap and disrespectful.

 

Now that I am responding to a tipping thread I'll state one of my pet peeves ( :D ). Whenever someone mentions excellent service in their cruise experience, the next 3 or 4 replies will be something along the lines of "I hope you tipped them well". Maybe I misread the tone, but these replies always sound so condescending....

 

...which means to talk down to... :D

[dan40]

I read this thread with some amusement, because the tipping discussions are usually popcorn and beer worthy. I have never participated...just been entertained. However, I had to respond to this based on my personal experience. I know one person that I will judge, because regardless of the service provided this person thinks that xx.xx dollars is enough, regardless of the amount of the bill. For example, at a business dinner at Don Shula's 5 of us had a very large bill (in my opinion...I don't go to places like that much). He thought a $20.00 tip was plenty...considerably less than 10% of the bill. His thinking is that the server just doesn't have to do that much. In this case I will judge him has cheap and disrespectful.

 

Now that I am responding to a tipping thread I'll state one of my pet peeves ( :D ). Whenever someone mentions excellent service in their cruise experience, the next 3 or 4 replies will be something along the lines of "I hope you tipped them well". Maybe I misread the tone, but these replies always sound so condescending....

 

...which means to talk down to... :D

 

Ahhh, grasshopper thanks the MASTER. he wondered what that word meant.:rolleyes:

 

Dan

[DreadPirateRobert]

I don't care where the steward or server is from or how many children they have starving in some godforsaken place, if they don't do a good job, they're not getting any money from me. If I wanted to tip them just because their poor, then lets just quit calling it tipping and call it charity.

 

I've worked hard to earn and have been blessed with more than any of those waiters, porters or stewards could ever dream about so I'm not touching the auto-tip. I can afford it. I just won't give more and I'll let someone know if service is sub-par though it rarely has been.

Do what you want with your money, I'll do what I want with mine. I'm sorry you don't care about the conditions in their country. A little charity isn't such a bad thing......

[astropilot]

There are too many people who spend all thier money to eat or to go on vacation and don't tip at all. Well, if you can't afford to tip, you can afford to go out to eat, or afford to take a cruise in my opinion. Furthermore, the cruise employees do a fantastic job for what they do. I dont see any one here working practicalyl 24/7, 6 months out of the year. So if thier service is a little under par, hey, we all have a bad day/week. Show some love:D

 

 

Well Well... first of all they are the ones who CHOSE to work in the service (cruise) industry. They signed a contract to work X amount of time for Y amount of dollars plus Z in tips. They they cannot or will not provide the service I expect, then they can count on me to help them improve the job skills, by NOT REWARDING them for poor service.

 

That being said -- if I get the service I feel that I'm entitled to then I have no problem tipping them, and if the service is above-and-beyond then the tip will be increased.

[momofmeg]

TIPS, IMO, are for good service. If I don't receive good service, I'm lowering my auto tip. I'm not picky either. I want a clean cabin, fresh towels, turn down service from my cabin steward. I'd like my server to remember what I order and be pleasant. Is this too much?

 

I'm sick of all these posters stating that they would NEVER remove or lower the automatic gratuities no matter what the service was like b/c those poor stewards, waiters, etc. are from 3rd world countries and send all of their money home to their families, etc. If I get poor service, I will lower the tip or remove it all together and explain why. I don't care where the steward or server is from or how many children they have starving in some godforsaken place, if they don't do a good job, they're not getting any money from me. If I wanted to tip them just because their poor, then lets just quit calling it tipping and call it charity.

Fine, lower your automatic tip- I have never felt the need to-in fact normally I tip extra by envelope-but maybe it has something to do with I am the kind of person that is not hard to please. LOL! (I think you are the opposite of me!)

 

But seriously, if I felt a person did not deserve their tip, not only would I have it removed, I would complain to the purser's office and say this person should not be working on a cruiseship-because they are so louzy in their job that they do not even deserve the tiny suggested amount of the recommended tip byt the cruiseline.

 

 

BTW you DO realize-most of these positions get litle more then room and board as salary from the cruiseline-so if we don't tip-they get paid almost nothing.

 

 

Yes, I feel that is unfair of the cruiselines, but I guess the cruiselines would have to charge us a higher fare to pay their employees better.

 

You know this is sort've like eating out-if leaving the waiter a tip is going to break a person's budget-then I suggest people order takeout. Don't expect to be waited on and then not pay for the service.

[NolaGuy]

I do tip and have worked in the service industry down here in New Orleans when I was younger. I KNOW that the stewards, waiters, etc work for VERY low wages and have long hours, but they CHOSE that occupation. When I was a waiter, I made $2.15 an hour and many days had to work double shifts, so if I provided poor service to a table should they still have had to tip me just b/c I was only making $2.00 an hour? That's not their problem as that was a job I chose to perform. I don't think all stewards, servers, etc. are bad, on the contrary, I think most are very good at what they do, but I've read numerous posts on CC about sub-standard service and when the people asked about reducing tips they got the, "low wages, huge family in 3rd world country, work 24/7" tirade and so I figured, why not quit calling them tips, since a lot seem to think it's more like charity anyway. I DO NOT think it's charity. I believe my tips need to be earned and I am NOT picky. I just require a basic level of service. If I do not receive it, I will not tip. Call me cheap, I really don't care. When I receive excellent service(above and beyond of what was expected) I will tip considerably more than the automatic grat.

[cruiserbryce]

I was one that said I wouldnt lower the tips...I have not had service issues on the cruises I have been on...if there was a case where it was warranted thats fine, but I know for a fact that there are those here that just dont like tipping...I heard cruisers my last trip using lower tip amounts as a way of reducing the cost of the trip...in cases like that I think it would be best for everyone if they just didnt cruise...I cant stand people who expect nothing but the most attentive and highest quality service but arent willing to tip

[momofmeg]

I was one that said I wouldnt lower the tips...I have not had service issues on the cruises I have been on...if there was a case where it was warranted thats fine, but I know for a fact that there are those here that just dont like tipping...I heard cruisers my last trip using lower tip amounts as a way of reducing the cost of the trip...in cases like that I think it would be best for everyone if they just didnt cruise...I cant stand people who expect nothing but the most attentive and highest quality service but arent willing to tip

 

I agree with you-if I had bad enough service I would lower the tips. but I do feel as you do, some people are just cheapos-plain and simple. they want to cruise and their expectations are to be waited on and and foot-an dif this does not happen then they want to not tip.

 

As far as people "chooising" their occupations-sometimes people choose an occupation so they can support thier family-I immagine not everyone is thrilled that they rarely see thier wives/husbands and children-but because they love their families and want to take care of them-they choose a job so they can do that.

[geoherb]

The only time we had a truly bad waiter, one of our tablemates spoke to the maitre d' after the first night. We had a new waiter for the rest of our cruise and he was great. It was back in the days before auto tips, so the new guy got our tips (or at least got them to turn into the pool).

 

I believe in speaking up first. Ask for what you want. For instance, if you drink a lot of water or iced tea with dinner, let the assistant waiter know. If he doesn't keep up, let your waiter know. If there's still a problem, talk to your assistant maitre d' and then the maitre d'.

 

Give people the opportunity to make things right. Don't hold a grudge and reduce your tip because on the second night of the cruise your waiter wrote down the wrong salad dressing and had to bring you a new salad.

[wilson9112]

As I said in another similar thread. I was on the Dawn last year and my room was not cleaned at all for 2 days. I complained. A supervisor came, inspected the room & I got an appology and a bottle of wine with a card. That time I should have reduced her tip but I didnt know I could do that.

[DonnaK]

Funny, the only time we've ever had poor service was on Carnival, where they have auto tipping. We didn't have the tip removed or adjusted downwards because we felt it wasn't the fault of the servers - they tried very hard, however they were terribly over-extended, handling 3-4 times the number of diners, and twice the number of cabins, as we have seen on other lines. Under those conditions, service is going to be diluted and less efficient/personalized. Instead of punishing the over-extended employee by undertipping, we decided not to sail with Carnival again.

 

Otherwise, tipping to me is part of the cruise price. We give the cabin steward the suggested amount (because we never ask for, or require, any additional service), and we give the wait team more then the suggested amount because they always exceed our expectations and go above-and-beyond to provide additional service.

[CaribbeanCrazy]

OP I totally agree with you 100%!

I do feel that if you get good service than you should tip the suggested amount. I have never stiffed anyone for mediocre service....and I never would. But...anymore I tip more out of a sense of obligation. I for one think the amount suggested by the cruise lines is a fair tip for good service. Don't get me wrong I have given over the suggested amount several times to our dining staff and pretty much regularly to our room steward. But the reason isn't for extra good service. I am not the type of person that want's or needs for someone to fuss over me. I don't ask for special requests for the most part. Once I did ask for an eggcrate topper on Celebrity. But mostly I try not to treat the staff like my personal servants. So why do I give more then I deem necessary? Because I feel sorry for them. Most of the waiters and stewards that I have been serviced by have given me their life (sob) story of sending home all of their pay to their wife and xxx amount of childeren. I think the cruise lines encourages this for them to make more tips. So I give them more money then I would normally because I feel sorry for them. (charity).

For example the suggested amount for the room steward is 3.50 pp per day. For DH and I. That is 7.00 a day! How many of you give a hotel room maid 7.00 or more a day? We don't! Yes...the room steward on the ship services the room twice a day....but unnecessary in my opinion. I pick up after myself. I don't need someone changing my sheets and towels twice a day. I don't have them do that in a hotel...nor do I do that at home. The twice a day service is just to justify that 7.00 per day tip. Which even though I feel is a little steep...I don't have a problem with. What I don't like is the expection and disappointment from the steward and dining staff... if I don't give more. In other words the 7.00 a day tip is expected ...not really appreciated. The only tip that seems to be appreciated now days is the extra one. So Yeah I get mad because the orginal tip doesn't seem to matter. In that case it is more of a service charge or charity not a tip.

We eat in the main dining room once a day for dinner...the rest of the time we eat at the buffet. So again the 6.00pp per day...12.00 per couple to me isn't a bad tip. Most cruises we will eat in the buffet or somewhere else at least once or twice for dinner. So on those days 12.00 a day is steep for getting your own food at a buffet. But I have never lower the tips because of this. But on those days that we don't go to the dining room the wait staff has it easier and still earns their tips...right. So why is it that if we don't give more than the suggested amout we are considered cheapskates. This boggles my mind and makes me a little mad.:mad:

I often wonder if it's just you generous CCers...or do most passengers tip above and beyond the suggested amount? I know that even though I have always given the suggested amount and usually then some...when reading the posts here on CC I feel that I am a bad tipper.:(

If I did things the way I would like to...I would tip the automatic tip...period. I think this is more than fair enough for two people who don't ask for much in the way of service.

I think people should tip what they want...and can afford. If you want to splurge and can afford to tip large amounts that's great and I don't have a problelm with that. But I don't feel that one should feel like a louse if they don't do the same. And again I'm not advocating not tipping or even under tipping. I just don't want to feel pressured into tipping more then the suggested/automatic amount when I feel that it is fair.

Sorry...but this is a sore subject with me and and I had to get it off my chest.:cool:

 

CaribbeanCrazy

[BobBeaSea]

You actually did a disservice to that poor performer and to ALL cruisers saddled with him in future. Good service should be rewarded, poor service SHOULD be punished. He will never get his act together when people like you reward him for nothing. He has a responsibility to you to perform at least at an acceptable level. If all would withhold his tips when he doesn't perform, he would have to find work more suited to his talents. And he would be happier and have more self-respect.

 

I am as tough as anybody on these boards when it comes to cheapos stiffing the help when they provides their normal good to great service. But tipping for bad service seems morally wrong and IS just dumb.

Only once in 48 cruises have I had a waiter that was poor. [if you look up poor service in a dictionary, his picture is there] He got tipped a quarter for an 11 day cruise [i didn't have a penny, nickle, or dime in my pocket], the asst. waiter got well over tipped as he worked his buns off to serve everyone very well.

 

Dan

 

By "punishment" what do you suggest - jail time :). Your advice to withhold tips to those who should be "punished" doesn't solve the problem, a complaint to the right people does solve the problem. The rotten thing about this of course is, everyones' perception of what constitutes good service is different.

Withholding the tips also unfairly penalizes others in the tip pool.

 

For the OP, it's because of your views, and many like you, the lines will ultimately just charge it and call it what it is...a service charge. Personally I would agree with the cruise lines doing this, it would certainly stop all this nonsense about the merits, pros and cons of "tipping".

[wilson9112]

By "punishment" what do you suggest - jail time :). Your advice to withhold tips to those who should be "punished" doesn't solve the problem, a complaint to the right people does solve the problem. The rotten thing about this of course is, everyones' perception of what constitutes good service is different.

Withholding the tips also unfairly penalizes others in the tip pool.

 

For the OP, it's because of your views, and many like you, the lines will ultimately just charge it and call it what it is...a service charge. Personally I would agree with the cruise lines doing this, it would certainly stop all this nonsense about the merits, pros and cons of "tipping".

 

 

I have to say a complaint goes a long way! However, between phone calls and a supervisor, it took about 2 hours of my day to do this. It is a shame if you reduce the tip that it just doesnt go against the one person though. But they did say they were sorry and gave me a bottle of wine!

[dan40]

By "punishment" what do you suggest - jail time :). Your advice to withhold tips to those who should be "punished" doesn't solve the problem, a complaint to the right people does solve the problem. The rotten thing about this of course is, everyones' perception of what constitutes good service is different.

Withholding the tips also unfairly penalizes others in the tip pool.

 

For the OP, it's because of your views, and many like you, the lines will ultimately just charge it and call it what it is...a service charge. Personally I would agree with the cruise lines doing this, it would certainly stop all this nonsense about the merits, pros and cons of "tipping".

 

A few comments on your quantum leap into sillysillyland.

First, try to follow this logic, if "rewarding" good service is tipping well, then punishment is tipping __________.

Second, taking the time to talk to a supervisor is taking time away from my cruise. Thus doubling the workers imposition on me, 1 for poor service and 2 wasting my time. If he's beyond bad then I would see a super.

Third, Carnival tips ARE NOT pooled except for the tiny amount set aside for the bistro workers.

Forth, it should NOT be a "service charge." Tipping is a fine method for rewarding excellent workers. Its just irresponsible slimeball cheapos that muck up a fine system.

Lastly, only once in 48 cruises have I withheld a tip. From a p--s poor waiter that did NOTHING! The assistant waiter was tipped well because he preformed above and beyond.

 

Dan

[BobBeaSea]

A few comments on your quantum leap into sillysillyland.

First, try to follow this logic, if "rewarding" good service is tipping well, then punishment is tipping __________.

Second, taking the time to talk to a supervisor is taking time away from my cruise. Thus doubling the workers imposition on me, 1 for poor service and 2 wasting my time. If he's beyond bad then I would see a super.

Third, Carnival tips ARE NOT pooled except for the tiny amount set aside for the bistro workers.

Forth, it should NOT be a "service charge." Tipping is a fine method for rewarding excellent workers. Its just irresponsible slimeball cheapos that muck up a fine system.

Lastly, only once in 48 cruises have I withheld a tip. From a p--s poor waiter that did NOTHING! The assistant waiter was tipped well because he preformed above and beyond.

 

Dan

 

Quantam leap into sillysillyland??? Are you for real????? You've been on 48 cruises and you don't think the tips are shared??? Carnival is no different than any other mass market line. The tip stiff rate is about 25-30% per mass market sailing, I assume this is where those you call "slimeballs" enter the picture. After 48 cruises you should know the suggested tips are for basic service levels, the real tip for exceptional service is on top of the suggested amounts.

 

I'd love to know what your p--s poor waiter did, or didn't do, it's pretty tough to really mess up waiting on a table, I'm assuming you spoke to a headwaiter (or equivalent) about the situation.

[yarlenna]

Most lines keep their fares low to get people in their ships. Do you want a soda? I will be extra. If you want a glass of wine? Also extra. Good coffee - extra. The people working on cruise lines do not make a lot of money. How about working for less than two dollars per DAY!! Remember that they days are LONG with no days off. I think it is called slavery. I just wish they would add those 10 dollars (or what ever) and then let tips be TIPS for good service. Until that day comes, those who stiff are @#$%#&$#@!

[astropilot]

I just wish they would add those 10 dollars (or what ever) and then let tips be TIPS for good service. Until that day comes, those who stiff are @#$%#&$#@!

 

 

IMHO... Those who work in the service industry know, or they should, that the amount of money they can make in tips is directly proportional to the level of service they provide. By Carnival, or any other service provider using Auto-tips they are taking away the incentive for the service-staff to provide the level of service they should be providing to their customers. Think about it, it’s human nature; if they can make the same amount of money (tips) and provide less service, then why should they work harder to satisfy their customers. Money can be a great motivator, work hard make more money, work less, then make less.

Now before I get flamed: I realize these folks more the most part work their a$$, and the majority of them do go above and beyond to provide first class service. But their will always be those who do the minimum amount of work and expect the maximum amount of remuneration. I’m sorry, but I will not reward this kind of behavior with MY hard-earned money.

As a mater of principal, I remove auto-tips on day one. I know that the crew member is informed about that, I think that’s a good thing. They know, or at least they should, that if they don’t perform to my level of expectation, they get no monetary reward from me. However, if they perform to my expectations they will be rewarded for the work done. If they perform above my expectation, they will be handsomely rewarded.

In my opinion auto-tipping is nothing more than increasing the price of my cruise by $10.00 a day/per person. I would just as soon pay the extra upfront, and tip the staff according to the service level provided by the individual.

[dan40]

Quantam leap into sillysillyland??? Are you for real????? You've been on 48 cruises and you don't think the tips are shared??? Carnival is no different than any other mass market line.

 

You need more research. Almost every line does it a little different. On Carnival, if the auto-tips are left in place, your tips go to your RS and waitteam. If the auto-tips are removed/reduced en masse or individually, then ANY cash tips that workers receives must go in the pool. If the auto-tip is left in place, then cash over tips are kept by the individual receiving them. Where Princess, owned by Carnival, pools all tips

 

 

 

 

The tip stiff rate is about 25-30% per mass market sailing, I assume this is where those you call "slimeballs" enter the picture.

 

Don't know if you 25-30% rate is accurate or not, what is your source?

Do know that prior to the inception of auto-tipping the stiff rate well exceeded 50%. That by personal observation thru 3 plus decades of cruising. Also have had ships' personell say, on these boards, that when auto-tips are removed, "to tip in cash." 92% stiff the help.

 

 

 

After 48 cruises you should know the suggested tips are for basic service levels, the real tip for exceptional service is on top of the suggested amounts.

 

A single item where we are in total agreement. We need to find more such areas.

 

I'd love to know what your p--s poor waiter did, or didn't do, it's pretty tough to really mess up waiting on a table, I'm assuming you spoke to a headwaiter (or equivalent) about the situation.

 

He stood between two tables of 8, doing nothing, taking no orders, delivering no food, cleaning up nothing. What he did do was TALK, constantly and on a single subject. What bad tippers Americans are! This in the days of dining room meals only, no buffet. I was in my 20's and not used to money and fine service so I did not complain to the M'D [should have] but I did come from some mean streets so I told him to leave our 2 tables and to not return or else. [Dumb, but that was then, I put up with him for 3 days]. The assistant waiter worked like a dog to make up the slack and he did make it up and then some. He received generous tips from all of us.

 

Dan

[dan40]

Most lines keep their fares low to get people in their ships. Do you want a soda? I will be extra. If you want a glass of wine? Also extra. Good coffee - extra. The people working on cruise lines do not make a lot of money. How about working for less than two dollars per DAY!! Remember that they days are LONG with no days off. I think it is called slavery. I just wish they would add those 10 dollars (or what ever) and then let tips be TIPS for good service. Until that day comes, those who stiff are @#$%#&$#@!

 

A point of clarification, maritime workers, all those behind the scenes, make normal maritime wages. For them working a cruise ship is the same as working a cargo carrier. Its only those in the hotel section, serving the public that get small salaries. But a really good one can make more money than all but the top officers, maybe even more than them. An independent businessman doesn't get ANY pay unless he makes his business succeed. Then he pays himself a salary out of monies already his. But that's no reason to buy or not buy from his business. Only the value you perceive is reason to patronize his business. By the same token, what the waiters, room Stews make is none of our business. If you're treated well, you should tip well. Why complicate a simple system with emotions, and rationalizations?

 

Dan