Parents & Kids on different decks

[6rugrats]

Kitty9, you are absolutely correct in everything you say!

 

I am so tired of parents who think their child would never do something wrong, that their child would never lie to them, etc. I see that all the time on this board. All kids make some bad choices. You just don't know about a lot of them.

 

It doesn't make you a bad parent or them awful; it just means they are children.

 

At these ages, their brains are not fully developed and one area that still is lacking is judgment. Keep your kids next to you on the same deck. To the OP, besides the fact you would be breaking the rules of the cruise line, are you saying your children's safety isn't worth the extra money?

[CanadianTwosome]

Well, my parents thought I was the perfect child and they trusted me, and instilled good solid values, but there were times I did things that when I think of it now, were totally stupid. Regardless of how much you instill good behavior, make them earn your trust and all that, EVERY kid tests limits. I was an A student, never got into trouble and skirted getting caught doing stupid things, and my parents still think I was the perfect child. If they knew some of the stuff, they would probably have a coronary. I used to be a teacher and just about every kid did something that their parents would cringe over. It's myopic to sit and believe, no matter how much you want to believe, that your child has never done anything immature, and possibly illegal or downright stupid. It's a part of growing up to test limits and unless you've put your child in a monastery or cloister, they in all likelihood have done things that you'll never know about, unless it leads to their arrest or a visit to an emergency room.

 

As to the safety issue, as a teacher, I don't think a 13 or 15 year old have the cognitive skills to handle an emergency situation. If there were a fire or other emergency situation at sea, at least if you're within a few doors of your child's cabin, you'd have the time to get there and act as a parent regarding your child's safety. If your child is on another floor and there's an emergency, it could well be impossible for you to reach your child in time. Then you have the whole lifeboat issue. Do you really think it's a good idea for children to be assigned a completely different lifeboat, one that might be located on the port side while yours is on starboard?

 

At no time would I ever suggest that kids are always going to follow rules or that they don't make poor choices sometimes. I certainly made plenty, and my mom would also cringe if she knew some of the truly idiotic and dangerous things I (thankfully) survived in my youth. That being said, I still respected her rules and limits, and while on holiday, neither my sister nor myself ever broke any of them. Admitting that children make mistakes is not the same as assuming that they can't be trusted in isolated situations. I just get so frustrated when every discussion involving children on these boards digresses to people saying that all children misbehave.

 

Your points about safety are the ones that I think are relevant to this discussion, and they are good ones. I agree fully that ensuring that your children are in the same muster drill as you are is vital. I don't agree that children this age are not capable of reacting in an emergency. Some kids are better at it than many adults. Also, ease of accessibility is important, but there are going to be many occasions during the course of the cruise when there will be more than a few floors between family members, and often where someone is in particular will not be known. This is unavoidable, and why I feel that a good means of communication is so important. At any given moment, families should have a meeting place (like muster station) where they will meet in the event of an emergency.

[rebeccalouise]

What you are saying is that your kids are the exception to the rule. Sorry, rules are rules. To book a cruise with the intention of having two young teens on a different floor is not only a bad idea- it is uncourteous to the neighboring cabins. How do you know for instance that they adult free cabin won't become a hangout for the other kids? How do you know that the cabin steward won't do something inappropriate with a teenage daughter? How do you know that some older guy from the ship or older woman won't be in the cabin with your child? What if the older child stays out late and the younger one is left alone and worried? Get real! I was a "good" kid and still made mistakes. Thank heaven nothing serious happened.

 

I am not talking about rotten kids here- I am talking about impressionable, pubescent kids with too much freedom.

 

When I was 15 I was lured down to a bandmember's cabin. I was smart enough to know right from wrong but didn't tell my parents because I didn't want him to get in trouble. Even at 15 I knew that this 25 year old was wrong for trying to have sex with me. This was back in 1980.

So, it isn't about your child knowing right from wrong. It is your child not have the experience to deal with a variety of situations that might occur.

[CanadianTwosome]

What you are saying is that your kids are the exception to the rule. Sorry, rules are rules. To book a cruise with the intention of having two young teens on a different floor is not only a bad idea- it is uncourteous to the neighboring cabins. How do you know for instance that they adult free cabin won't become a hangout for the other kids? How do you know that the cabin steward won't do something inappropriate with a teenage daughter? How do you know that some older guy from the ship or older woman won't be in the cabin with your child? What if the older child stays out late and the younger one is left alone and worried? Get real! I was a "good" kid and still made mistakes. Thank heaven nothing serious happened.

 

I am not talking about rotten kids here- I am talking about impressionable, pubescent kids with too much freedom.

 

When I was 15 I was lured down to a bandmember's cabin. I was smart enough to know right from wrong but didn't tell my parents because I didn't want him to get in trouble. Even at 15 I knew that this 25 year old was wrong for trying to have sex with me. This was back in 1980.

So, it isn't about your child knowing right from wrong. It is your child not have the experience to deal with a variety of situations that might occur.

 

I'm not the one who is considering different cabins, but since I've been really vocal, I wanted to answer these questions.

 

1. I don't agree with allowing the children total freedom, so until bedtime, it would not be 'their' cabin - it would be part of the family cabins, just like a shared cabin would be when the parents weren't there, and definitely just like an adjacent or closer cabin would be.

 

2. How do I know a cabin steward won't do something inappropriate with a child? What does having a separate cabin have to do with this? They have access to places on the ship that we have never even dreamed of, but when they are making up cabins, in all of my experience they have always worked in pairs... would it be two stewards breaking into my child's cabin and assaulting them?

 

3. How do I know some older person from the ship won't be in the cabin? Again, I don't think this has anything to do with separate cabins, and in fact, if there was such a predator on a ship, I highly doubt they would talk a child into allowing them into the child's cabin. They would have a lot more privacy and security in their own.

 

4. What if the older child stays out... Again, this is about supervision. Establishing rules about curfews and making a point of checking on your children and maintaining good communication is vital. A child that respects their curfew at home is likely to respect their curfew when on holiday, in my opinion. Unless a parent is going to go to bed with their children, a child that is going to sneak out after they've been put to bed is going to do so no matter what cabin they're in. As for the younger one being worried, that's where the walkie talkies come in.

 

There are basically two things being addressed in these questions. One, will your child misbehave as a result of having their own cabin, to which my answer is that if a child is going to misbehave it won't make a difference, and two, what if a stranger takes advantage of a child, to which I answer that predators will find a way, and I doubt that it will be in a room that a parent has full access to.

 

To address your experience of being 'lured' down to a bandmember's room, I agree that you made a mistake, but again, that does not mean that every child will, and it doesn't mean that I should assume that my child will. It also reinforces my belief that having your child stay in a shared or closer cabin will NOT stop them from making poor choices. When I was on a cruise as a child, I had a crewmember ask to make love with me (his exact phrase, in broken English, was 'We make love tonight?') I was pretty innocent and naive, and had not realized that my friendliness was being misinterpreted, but my reaction was unequivocally 'NO'. So clearly we had different experiences, likely based on our own personal life experiences and outlooks at the time. If there's one thing I knew, it was not to go anywhere private with a stranger - especially an older one... something my daughter knows as well.

 

Since you brought up the idea that having teens on a different floor is somehow discourteous to other passengers (though how having them in a shared or close cabin is different I'm not clear on), I couldn't help but notice that in another thread it appears that your eight year old was allowed to roam freely around the ship. You state that he was well liked and that it wasn't a problem, and I absolutely believe you... but how did you know that before you allowed him that freedom? Do you think there might have been some other passengers that disagreed? You know that he did not cause any problems, and you felt secure that he would make good choices about not following strangers (unlike mom!) or doing dangerous things. Why is it so difficult to believe that there are other parents that know their children well enough to have that same faith in their behaviour?

 

Please don't take this as a disapproval of the choices you made for your son, I'm only referring to it as an illustration of how a parent can be correct in trusting their child. I am also not meaning to 'get personal' in the thread, I think the questions you asked were valid and worth addressing, and I think your personal experiences made excellent points as well. I'm glad to have the opportunity to discuss things from different - and rational - perspectives.

[crusinmama06]

Canadian Twosome - I think you are wayyyy off base saying this is another "against misbehaving child" thread. From what I can see through the 2 pages, ALL of the posters are parents with safety concerns for the children. There wasn't any flaming against kids because every poster in this thread has kids.

 

Would I leave my kids (if they were older) on another deck? NO WAY! Not in a million years! :eek: I can't even imagine doing it. And it doesn't have anything to do with my kids. It has EVERYTHING to do with the 3,000 other strangers onboard the ship.

 

What if the kids were unlocking their door and someone came up behind them and pushed their way in?

 

Wonder if they were assaulted by a crew member who had a key? (I've seen reports on that happening)

 

Wonder if other kids know they are alone and decide to try to lure them out in the middle of the night?

 

There is no comparison between sleeping on a different floor in your home to sleeping on a different floor on a cruiseship.

 

And I'm sorry, to the OP, but I can't put a price on my childrens' safety. I think $250 per child is a small price to pay.

[abitaturbodog]

Canadian Twosome - I think you are wayyyy off base saying this is another "against misbehaving child" thread. From what I can see through the 2 pages, ALL of the posters are parents with safety concerns for the children. There wasn't any flaming against kids because every poster in this thread has kids.

 

Would I leave my kids (if they were older) on another deck? NO WAY! Not in a million years! :eek: I can't even imagine doing it. And it doesn't have anything to do with my kids. It has EVERYTHING to do with the 3,000 other strangers onboard the ship.

 

What if the kids were unlocking their door and someone came up behind them and pushed their way in?

 

Wonder if they were assaulted by a crew member who had a key? (I've seen reports on that happening)

 

Wonder if other kids know they are alone and decide to try to lure them out in the middle of the night?

 

There is no comparison between sleeping on a different floor in your home to sleeping on a different floor on a cruiseship.

 

And I'm sorry, to the OP, but I can't put a price on my childrens' safety. I think $250 per child is a small price to pay.

 

WELL SAID CRUSINMAMA!!!!!

 

I totally agree with everything you've mentioned!

[notentirelynormal]

It seems a lot of you are thinking that because they are on a different deck they can get into more trouble then if they were sharing a cabin with you (or interconnecting). What makes you think these same kids – if they chose – could not do unsafe things during the day. Going off with a complete stranger can happen just as much at noon time as at 8 PM. Being “pushed” into your cabin by a stranger can happen even if they are sharing your cabin and you are up by the pool. Do you really think bad things only happen at night? Do you really think that if they choose to drink its only going to happen when they are in their different deck cabin? Please, if they are going to drink they can do it just as well in the afternoon while you are at Bingo or while you are at dinner. I notice that most of the posters send their kids to the teen and kid centers. They have a better chance of meeting up with other kids that might choose poorly there then they do anywhere else.

 

I taught my kids responsibility, yes, and I trusted them. BUT, when we are on a cruise it is family time. They were not hanging out with other kids. My kids spent the days with us, we ate together and checked in often if they went to the pool (or some other event). Shore excursions were with us. I don’t think my kids even liked going to the kids clubs. They wanted to spend time with us, just like we wanted to spend time with them.

 

I have to wonder what you guys are going to do when your kids are driving and out working? Are you going to follow them around? When do you start trusting them and the job you did as parents. Of course kids do stupid things. That’s part of growing up and learning. To think that because they are sleeping in your room stops them from using poor judgment though…..

 

:rolleyes:

[crusinmama06]

It seems a lot of you are thinking that because they are on a different deck they can get into more trouble then if they were sharing a cabin with you (or interconnecting). What makes you think these same kids – if they chose – could not do unsafe things during the day.

:rolleyes:

 

I think it's all about minimizing the risk. Can they get picked up by a stranger while walking home from school, heck ya. Can they go get drunk at a friend's house when not on the cruise, yep.

 

But when you are on the cruise and it's so darn easy to minimize the risk, then why wouldn't you? Just to save $250? :rolleyes: That makes no sense.

 

Yes you can teach the kids to be responsible. We ALL teach our kids to be responsible. And that would effect the things they do during the day. And personally I know I will be checking on them throughout the day if they are not physically with me.

 

At night, if the kids sleep on another deck, there would be about an 8-10 hour span where the kids will be out of contact. Alot can happen in 8-10 hours.

[mjmalino]

Well, I must be a terrible parent because my kids were often in their own rooms. Sometimes they were close, sometimes on different decks. I taught my children to be responsible and they acted accordingly. I'm not so naive as to think they never did anything wrong, but at some point you have got to trust them and that you have done a good job yourself. At 15 the kid is almost old enough to work - three more years and they are considered an adult. What age would you consider your kids to be responsible? It is a personal parental decision of how to handle the raising of their children . The OP was not asking your opinion of whether she should do it or not, but whether on the same deck. By the way, my kids turned out just fine and weren’t scarred from the experience nor were they found running around the ship at 3 in the morning. They were the polite ones you passed in the hallways and that held the door open for you.

 

For booking purposes, you have to have one adult and one child in the room. Once you get on board, go to the pursers office and switch out the key cards so the kids have keys to their room and you to yours. I would also ask for an additional key to the kids room, that way you can enter it whenever you want. Talk to their room steward and let them know who you are and where you are. My kid’s steward would see my coming and run to open their cabin. Then he’d tell me exactly what they were doing and when. They didn’t stand a chance. He monitored them closely LOL.

 

I am curious as to how old your kids were when they first had their own cabin. In June, DH and I are traveing with our 2 DS (will be 9 and 10) and my MIL and FIL. What we are thinking of is having 2 balcony's next to each other(one for us and one for the in-laws) with the kids in an inside right across the hall. We plan on using their cabin pretty much as a place for them to sleep and get dressed, but everything else would be with us or under our supervision. Any thoughts?

[larronry]

What cruisinmama has said is absolutely correct and to add to it the majority of incidents that occur on ships happen at night. And it has gotten to the point where many woman get told by friends not to walk to their cabin alone at night like they are told not to walk alone on the streets at night. Also, no matter how well you've raised your children and how much you trust them the brain isn't fully developed until the age of 25 and they are going to make mistakes. Will they on the cruise? Maybe or maybe not.

[notentirelynormal]

I am curious as to how old your kids were when they first had their own cabin. In June, DH and I are traveing with our 2 DS (will be 9 and 10) and my MIL and FIL. What we are thinking of is having 2 balcony's next to each other(one for us and one for the in-laws) with the kids in an inside right across the hall. We plan on using their cabin pretty much as a place for them to sleep and get dressed, but everything else would be with us or under our supervision. Any thoughts?

 

My DD was around 12, my DS was around 9. If you have a balcony room you can open up the balcony between your rooms, at least on Princess you can. Then you can walk back and forth without going into the hall. You can easily keep an eye on them, even by using a baby monitor if you are concerned. You also will have access to their room and them to yours without the need of a key.

 

For the record here, there was only one time my kids were on another deck and my DD was around 15/16. The rest of the time they were in the cabin either next to us or across the hall or next to other relatives/friends. We usually travel with a group of 20 or more so someone always knew where they were, which was with someone in our group if not with us.

[Karysa]

Canadian Twosome - I think you are wayyyy off base saying this is another "against misbehaving child" thread. From what I can see through the 2 pages, ALL of the posters are parents with safety concerns for the children. There wasn't any flaming against kids because every poster in this thread has kids.

 

Would I leave my kids (if they were older) on another deck? NO WAY! Not in a million years! :eek: I can't even imagine doing it. And it doesn't have anything to do with my kids. It has EVERYTHING to do with the 3,000 other strangers onboard the ship.

 

What if the kids were unlocking their door and someone came up behind them and pushed their way in?

 

Wonder if they were assaulted by a crew member who had a key? (I've seen reports on that happening)

 

Wonder if other kids know they are alone and decide to try to lure them out in the middle of the night?

 

There is no comparison between sleeping on a different floor in your home to sleeping on a different floor on a cruiseship.

 

And I'm sorry, to the OP, but I can't put a price on my childrens' safety. I think $250 per child is a small price to pay.

You took the words right out of my mouth Michelle!

 

I have rules that my girls must follow. There room is beside ours and they know that they are only allowed to:

 

1. Be with someone at all times when walking down the hallway, and take the stairs nearest to our room and walk in the middle of the hall.

 

2. Never be alone (one child) in their cabin unless we are next door.

 

3. Never tell anyone their floor or cabin number or that they are in a room without us.

 

4. Check before opening the door when someone knocks.

 

They are very protected and trusting and I am trying to find a way to make them a little more streetwise without scaring the you know what out of them.

 

Worrying about them having the TV too loud, or talking too loud in the hallway is the little stuff to me, but if someone banged on the door and told them to keep it down it would really upset them to think that they upset or kept someone awake.

 

Keep them close, for their sakes!!

 

Karysa

[rebeccalouise]

My son downloaded his photos from a cruise we took in March of 2005. He was 17 at the time. We had connecting cabins with an adult in each cabin and my two kids (one in my cabin) one in the other cabin.

The pictures were of him with about six teens in an inside cabin. They were obviously drinking rum that they purchased easily in the Caribbean.

 

I am not a grandmother as far as I know- and my son didn't fall overboard. I am just illustrating that things happen in these adultfree inside cabins that I wasn't aware of until we got back from the trip.

 

My son is a very good kid- hasn't caused me a moments trouble. Never even had a speeding ticket. He is now a sophomore at Gettysburg but kids are kids and teens are looking for action. Just keep your eye on the situation.

 

Remember ship to shore calls are $9 per minute. An 18 year old girl I know rang up $ 900 of ship to shore calls!

[Debbers]

>Worrying about them having the TV too loud, or talking too loud in the hallway is the little stuff to me, but if someone banged on the door and told them to keep it down it would really upset them to think that they upset or kept someone awake. <

The loud kids' neighbors might not feel the same way! Parents have a responsibility to monitor their children's behavior so they don't disturb others. Is it other passengers' responsibility to ask young cruisers to pipe down? I don't think so. No one wants a confrontation.

[Karysa]

Yes, with my girls they would only have to be told once and they would be sooo, upset that they would be mortified!!

The other stuff to me, like being pulled into someone's room and raped. Now that is the unthinkable to me.

 

I have been in lot's of hotel rooms and vacation resorts when someone gets a little loud. Again, it is not always kids that forget to use their indoor voices.

Karysa

[CanadianTwosome]

Where we live, a 12 year old is legally allowed to babysit, meaning that they can be left responsible for younger children. Now, I see that as a MUCH bigger responsibility than being allowed to SLEEP in another cabin. Perhaps I haven't been clear, or perhaps people are just bent on arguing the dangers of allowing children complete and total freedom in a cabin of their own that the parents are oblivious to, but that is not what I am advocating.

 

First, yes, this thread has had a great deal of focus on children misbehaving - what else is it called if you think kids with their own cabin are going to party, drink, or have other kids in when you have rules against it?

 

Second, I have stressed again and again that children should be supervised as much as possible. That means that when it's bedtime, a parent escorts them to their room and tucks them in, ensuring their safety and that nobody follows them or pushes in with them. (of course, as has been pointed out, this sort of thing can happen at any time if you allow your child to enter any cabin, shared or otherwise, by themselves) I have also tried to be clear that if your children are in a different cabin, you should check on them - and that goes for across the ship, across the hall, or next door. If you're sharing and they go to bed before you do, you should check on them there as well.

 

Third, anyone who honestly believes that the location of a cabin is somehow going to miraculously change a child's behaviour is kidding themselves. Karysa, do you think those rules will keep your children safer just because their cabin is closer? Separate is separate.

 

I think I should make something else clear. I am only voicing my opinion in support of SOME children being allowed to SLEEP in a separate cabin, with the same muster station, whether on another deck or not. I see separate as separate and believe that any dangers in a cabin one deck below are equally dangerous next door. Personally, I have no idea why someone would get separate cabins for their kids at all - I never will because I don't mind sharing with my child and don't see that changing. That doesn't mean that I'm a better parent, it's just how our family is. I also believe that no matter where my child is on any cruise, all of the dangers that have been mentioned here are VERY REAL. As I have said repeatedly, unless you stick with your child 24/7, there is no 100% guarantee of safety. You have to trust your kids and hope that the lessons you've taught have been learned.

[pms4104]

Excellent points, Karysa and cruisinmama06. The safety of the kids should be the primary concern and if placing them on a deck different from the parents is a budgetary move, then I feel priorities are misplaced. Think of the cruiseship as a microcosm of your neighborhood or city ... just as there are pedophiles and other assorted criminals in those areas, surely there are some of the same on board. Why provide an easy opportunity for them to ply their various abberations?

[Karysa]

I think the rules will help keep them safe, yes. They are to be used when we are not walking down the halls with them and general buddy rules, not telling friends where they are staying etc. If they are three floors above us and on the other side of the ship it would be harder to ensure that they are abiding by the rules. If people know that my husband and I are next door and they are not just surrounded by strangers, yes I think it may make a predator think twice.

Karysa

[miami]

Perhaps I haven't been clear

 

I think your opinions have been very clear. Some just don't agree with you.

[larronry]

I think that I would always get adjoining rooms, stay in the same room, or get a suite of some sort; but if for some reason I decided to get two separate rooms and couldn't afford to get two cabins on the same floor I would most definetly downgrade myself.

 

Now I have seen problems where people have done this by getting guaranteed rooms and ended up far apart and that tends to be a little bit more complicated, but nonetheless I would downgrade one of the rooms. (which was upgraded which might mean having to upgrade to do this I'm not sure in this situation)

 

I know most likely nothing will happen but I'd rather that slight chance not be my child. In viewing the ship is a microcosm of my city my child doesn't have his own apartment why would I essentially give him that on a cruise.

[CanadianTwosome]

I think your opinions have been very clear. Some just don't agree with you.

 

Oh, I'm very sure lots of people don't agree with me! ha ha ha

 

The reason I'm frustrated and feel like I haven't been clear or that people are somehow not understanding what I'm saying is that much of what people appear to be trying to tell me regarding safety is so similar to what I've been trying to say myself. The OP did not ask if people thought they should have separate rooms, she asked about separate decks. To me, there is not enough difference between the two (assuming they still have the same muster station) to make one any better or worse than another.

 

I am in complete agreement that children alone in a cabin can be dangerous - I just disagree that where the cabin is will make a difference. If a parent feels comfortable having their children in a different cabin, then I just don't think proximity will somehow make one better than the other.

 

I also get very frustrated because so many discussions about children have posts that suggest that no child can be trusted. In this case, the idea is that they will drink, entertain, or in some other way break the rules if left alone. In my opinion, if those behaviours are a risk in a separate cabin, they're a risk in any cabin. Saying 'my child won't drink because they're next door to me' is like saying 'my child won't have sex because I don't give them condoms'. Both statements are completely unrealistic if the child WANTS to do whatever it is you think you're preventing.

 

Also, as I said in my last post, children are legally allowed to babysit at 12. Both of the children in question here are over that age. At 13 and 15, these kids are legally allowed to stay at home if the parents go out of town... I'm not saying I would do that either... but if a parent knows their child and they trust them, who am I to tell them they can't? I know that there are many oblivious parents in the world that really don't know their kids, but it's certainly not my place to judge people I don't know and expect the worst of their children based on a text post.

 

Karysa, I didn't suggest that your rules would not keep your children safe... in fact, I think they are excellent rules that all parents should consider or modify for their own situation. I just don't believe that they will keep a child safER simply because of where the cabin is that they're going to. As for a predator thinking twice because you're next door, as you pointed out in your rules, nobody should be aware that they are in a cabin by themselves, so that shouldn't be an issue either way.

[Karysa]

Unfortunately, some people will have access to information regarding who is staying in which room and there will be other cruisers who will see us unlock the side by side rooms. But the girls know what will happen if we find out that they told people where there cabin is and who is staying in it. To them it is a honor and a symbol of trust for them to have a little space of their own. I say baby steps!!! I am not willing to give them too much freedom. They usually stick around us because we really have fun together. My younger ones would not go if they had a room down the hall or on another floor because they would not feel comfortable in that situation. Every person has their own past experiences and their comfort level. I have simply expressed mine, and I would not think for one second that everyone would hold the same opinion.

Karysa

[CanadianTwosome]

We're definitely in full agreement there, Karysa. I guess you know your kids. :)

[miami]

I just disagree that where the cabin is will make a difference.

 

 

Sorry, but I think a child/teenager is less like to "break the rules" if Mom and Dad's cabin is close.

[Cruisin' Chick]

Aside from the discussion of whether teens can show good judgement or not, I would be concerned about emergency situations. It wasn't that long ago that the Star Princess caught fire in the very early morning. I know that not every cruise has a problem like that, but I would definitely think long and hard about having minor children in a cabin not next to mine.