Live from Miami and just off Zuiderdam

[Searanger]

The letter as I described as funny was from the Captain. Basically it said this: That tipping for the 2 extra days at sea was voluntary, however since many of the guests had inquired about how they could still tip (I very much doubt that) The letter had a box at the bottom of the page that you could write any amount in and have it charged to your onboard account. You would then return it to the front desk.

 

The letter also went into great detail about how hard the crew was working and that the tips are split 35% Cabin Stewart, 35% Dinning Room Stewarts and 30% for everyone else.

 

The reason I found this humorous: This coming from a Cruise Line that up until May of this year didn't even "discuss tipping". Now we were having a letter from the Captain of all people asking for donations. How Carnival of them!!!!

[sail7seas]

But passengers were helpful to each other when needed (sharing minutes etc).

It was certainly a vacation to remember !

__________________

 

 

That part I really like to read!!!!

[dakrewser]

The reason I found this humorous: This coming from a Cruise Line that up until May of this year didn't even "discuss tipping". Now we were having a letter from the Captain of all people asking for donations. How Carnival of them!!!!

Don't know which HAL ships you've been on, but I've always found that the officers and crew were quite willing to discuss tipping...

 

-dave

[superstein61]

The letter as I described as funny was from the Captain. Basically it said this: That tipping for the 2 extra days at sea was voluntary, however since many of the guests had inquired about how they could still tip (I very much doubt that) The letter had a box at the bottom of the page that you could write any amount in and have it charged to your onboard account. You would then return it to the front desk.

 

The letter also went into great detail about how hard the crew was working and that the tips are split 35% Cabin Stewart, 35% Dinning Room Stewarts and 30% for everyone else.

 

The reason I found this humorous: This coming from a Cruise Line that up until May of this year didn't even "discuss tipping". Now we were having a letter from the Captain of all people asking for donations. How Carnival of them!!!!

Thanks for the detail Searanger !!!

 

you confirmed my feelings that this was crass.

 

I don't have a problem with HAL communicating a tipping policy as a normal course of business - but for this particular circumstance HAL shouldn't have pushed the issue. All they had to say is the automatic tips would not be applied for the extra days and pax were free to do as they pleased. End of story.

 

instead - they did the old arm twisting guilt trip on pax who were kept an extra 2 days on board thru no fault of their own.

 

CRASS !!!!!

[dakrewser]

Thanks for the detail Searanger !!!

 

you confirmed my feelings that this was crass.

 

I don't have a problem with HAL communicating a tipping policy as a normal course of business - but for this particular circumstance HAL shouldn't have pushed the issue. All they had to say is the automatic tips would not be applied for the extra days and pax were free to do as they pleased. End of story.

 

instead - they did the old arm twisting guilt trip on pax who were kept an extra 2 days on board thru no fault of their own.

 

CRASS !!!!!

It's only crass, in my estimation, if the line itself somehow profits from the situation. They don't, but they do appear to care about the welfare of their crew as well as that of their passengers. That, to me, is a class act. No one had their arm twisted. No one knew what a passenger's choice was.

 

-dave

[Cruising Jake]

Dave, I agree with you.

[taszmom]

I was locked in a house for days with no power, no communications...my lifeline was a battery operated radio wondering if my roof would withstand hurricane force winds with no idea of when and how hard we were going to get hit. And...when we were in the throws her frightened as hell huddled in my small closet for hours and hours in the dark of night not knowing when the horror would end, and only praying it would end soon and that the roof would hold and the windows wouldn't break and we would live to see daylight. We were at the mercy of mother nature.

[Nliedel]

With all due respect Tazmom I am at a loss to understand wat your purpose is in posting that?? Are you letting us know you had a terrible and frightening time? Or are you trying to point out that you "had it worse than the people on the cruise and they should stop complaining? I do get that people were in danger and I have been in my home in a closet in a hurricane before (Opal) so I do know how it feels. The thing that bothers me is that there seems to be a prevailing attitude that if you were not in harms way or living in Florida then you should be quiet and be grateful and any negative experience you have had as a result of the Hurricane is null and void because you did not have it as bad as some others had it.

 

In my life I have had some horrible pain, as has everyone.. Each experience is subjective and what would drop me to the ground and leave me unable to move on with my life would not be as painful to others and visa versa.. Your experience was horrific and I am sorry you had to go through that.. It is a frightening and awful place to be.. however some posts (not you) have stated that this is the price people pay to get a cheaper fare in the summer months (truly people travel to warm destinations on this side of the planet less in the summer months because of local opportunities, not merely because of the threat of hurricanes).. and they should take what they should get.. I find that attitude baffling to say the least.. It would be akin to stating no one should live in places where they could be affected by a hurricane.. or people in Tornado Alley deserve to get their homes destroyed.. No one asks for the pain and suffering of a damaged home, or a lost vacation.. maybe the only one they have ever had in their lifetime...

 

Each of us has our personal sorrows, fear and pain and we cannot hold ours up to anyone else and say that "ours is worse".. to the person carrying the burden their pain is great.. I am not dumping on anyone.. I am just stating that compassion runs in all directions.

[taszmom]

My purpose was to share my experience of living through this hurricane and provide another perspective on how it has affected us all. I was joining in and sharing about the frustration of this storm and how torturous it was not knowing what she would do and how agonizing long we awaited her arrival and for her to finally depart. Most hurricanes blow in and out and they're done. Not this one....she lingered and moved so slowly. It was agonizing for ALL. I think that they all have a right to complain and maybe it will help HAL do it better next time. It was a tough situation all around. I purposely did NOT say anything negative because I can understand how hard it was for those on the ship not knowing as well. I was commiserating with y'all!

[jfishe]

Taszmom - even though it was frustrating not knowing when we were actually getting into port, we had power, food and nice weather. IMO, that frustration can't compare with actually being on land during that time. After getting into port on Monday morning and driving the 200 miles north to Orlando and seeing the damage, we were certainly the fortunate ones on the ship. My heart goes to all Floridians for the rough times lately. Kind regards - jodie

[superstein61]

It's only crass, in my estimation, if the line itself somehow profits from the situation. They don't, but they do appear to care about the welfare of their crew as well as that of their passengers. That, to me, is a class act. No one had their arm twisted. No one knew what a passenger's choice was.

 

-dave

SIGH - ok - keep defending HAL. IMO it was very CRASS of HAL to pull the old guilt trip on its PAX who were forced to stay on board thru no fault of their own. HAL committed verbal arm twisting. That is CRASS. But I know some of you who only view HAL thru rose colored glasses will refuse to see that.

[dakrewser]

SIGH - ok - keep defending HAL. IMO it was very CRASS of HAL to pull the old guilt trip on its PAX who were forced to stay on board thru no fault of their own. HAL committed verbal arm twisting. That is CRASS. But I know some of you who only view HAL thru rose colored glasses will refuse to see that.

Here's your chance, what would you have done in this situation?

 

-dave

[Spot]

My thought is that the issue had to be talked about as I'm certain there were passengers inquiring but it was the method I question. Not all cruisers have an endless credit line and they have been spending plenty not even considering that those extra days aboard might need to be tipped.

IMO, I think it was a tough topic for management to bring forward.

 

I'm certain there were plenty of passengers that would have never considered not tipping and many passengers tip in excess of the $10 per day gratuity anyway.

 

To each his/her own in a trying situation.

[superstein61]

Here's your chance, what would you have done in this situation?

 

-dave

I already answered that in a previous post - but to repeat:

 

All HAL had to say is the automatic tips would not be applied for the extra days and pax were free to do as they pleased.

 

 

End of story. Short, sweet and no arm twisting or verbal guilt trips about the hard working staff, suggestion to add tips to their onboard account, etc

[dakrewser]

I already answered that in a previous post - but to repeat:

 

All HAL had to say is the automatic tips would not be applied for the extra days and pax were free to do as they pleased.

 

 

End of story. Short, sweet and no arm twisting or verbal guilt trips about the hard working staff, suggestion to add tips to their onboard account, etc

Do you often have your arm twisted by a piece of paper? The line was doing what they could to help their passengers (no automatic tip for those two days) while at the same time looking out for their hard working crew. It's true that there is no solution that would satisfy everyone, but you do make it sound as if the staff were standing by the gangway shaking down each departing passenger. Instead, the line offered to assist those who wished to add a tip for those two days by placing it on their account, quietly and discreetly. THose who chose not to could simply throw away the paper and no one would know the difference.

 

You may not agree with the policy, I've no quibble with that. I do object to your hyperbole in calling it a "guilt trip" and "arm twisting". It was neither.

 

-dave

[superstein61]

I do object to your hyperbole in calling it a "guilt trip" and "arm twisting". It was neither.

 

-dave

IMO it was verbal arm twisting. One of the PAX on board actually called it a guilt trip. Maybe to you you think it was neither - but IMO you are dead wrong. I suspect that the majority of folks on board found it distasteful. The problem is this board does not represent the views of HAL's PAX in general

[dakrewser]

The problem is this board does not represent the views of HAL's PAX in general

Ah, so you get your insight into the typical passenger from.... voices you hear? Another forum? Or do you "just know". Note that of the 8 to 10 pax from that cruise who posted to this forum, only 1 complained about this letter. What makes that 1 person the norm and the other 7-9 abnormal?

 

-dave

[kryos]

It's only crass, in my estimation, if the line itself somehow profits from the situation. They don't, but they do appear to care about the welfare of their crew as well as that of their passengers. That, to me, is a class act. No one had their arm twisted. No one knew what a passenger's choice was.

Both myself and two other ladies I met on the cruise were at the desk adding extra gratuities. I did not read HAL's letter as arm twisting because, honestly, it appeared that everyone was working their butts off to keep the passengers happy ... both on the extended 8-28 cruise, and then on the late-starting 9-4 one. Many of those same crew members ... namely, service personnel ... were getting shafted at the same time that they were being asked to over-extend themselves to keep passengers happy.

 

I am sure many passengers did not bother adding back those gratuities that were not assessed for the two additional days of the 8-28 cruise. Further, I heard that the total passenger count for the late-starting 9-4 cruise only amounted to about 650. Cabin stewards and waiters who normally have a certain number of passengers to take care of had that number drastically reduced, with a naturally resulting decrease in their normal tips as well.

 

One cabin steward reported that he normally takes care of 14 cabins on an average cruise. On this particular cruise he only had four of those cabins occupied. That's a major drop in income ... especially when you consider that those tips represent the bulk of these folks' earnings.

 

HAL cut down the dinner seatings to 1 on the 9-4 cruise ... 7:00 p.m. ... and still the dining room was only about 60% full on a good night.

 

I heard that the 9-11 sailing was only going out with about 1,200 people ... and that's probably not much for a ship of the Zuiderdam's size and capacity.

 

I only hope that HAL is doing something to supplement the lower paid service personnel's wages for this group of cruises ... because I have a feeling many passengers did not even bother supplementing gratuities. Maybe that letter placed under cabin doors at the end of the 8-28 cruise was one step in that direction?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Here's your chance, what would you have done in this situation?

 

-dave

If I may add my response to that question ...

 

I would have charged the automatic gratituity for those extra days and not even bothered with the letter. I would imagine the crew would have received more in tips that way since most people would not have bothered taking the tips off their bill ... and probably most passengers (like myself) would have assumed the $10.00 per day was being charged for those extra days anyway.

 

Hey ... why shouldn't the tips be put on for the extra days? Passengers were enjoying first rate service. They were still getting meals everyday ... still having their cabins cleaned ... still getting fresh towels ... still enjoying all the ammenities a ship like the Zuiderdam offers. So, why carp about the gratuity for those days?

 

I'd be willing to bet that few passengers would have taken issue with the gratuities being added for those extra days. I bet fewer passengers bothered to go to the front office and have them added back on once receiving the letter. I think the crew would have made out better had the tips just been left on, in my opinion.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[gizmo]

I

All HAL had to say is the automatic tips would not be applied for the extra days and pax were free to do as they pleased.

 

 

End of story. Short, sweet and no arm twisting or verbal guilt trips about the hard working staff, suggestion to add tips to their onboard account, etc

I have to agree with this. Short and sweet is much better. The additional comments about the hard working staff etc., was not necessary.

[superstein61]

Ah, so you get your insight into the typical passenger from.... voices you hear? Another forum? Or do you "just know". Note that of the 8 to 10 pax from that cruise who posted to this forum, only 1 complained about this letter. What makes that 1 person the norm and the other 7-9 abnormal?

 

-dave

Boy dave - you will go to untold lengths to defend HAL.

 

Perhaps to you it was not crass, verbal arm twisting and a guilt trip. But you are not the only one with an opinion. IMO it was very crass. Feel free to disagree if you choose - but quit trying to discredit my opinion.

 

Oh, and BTW - you need a bigger sample size for a ship filled with 1200+ pax to draw any statistically relevant conclusion. The people that post here do not IMO represent the true PAX mix on a HAL cruise

[superstein61]

I only hope that HAL is doing something to supplement the lower paid service personnel's wages for this group of cruises ... because I have a feeling many passengers did not even bother supplementing gratuities. Maybe that letter placed under cabin doors at the end of the 8-28 cruise was one step in that direction?

 

--rita

Kyros - you are making my point for me - thanks. HAL should compensate its staff ofr those extra days, etc - not put a guilt trip on the PAX.

 

You yourself say that maybe the letter was intended to have PAX pony up more dough for the crew.

 

IMO - given the situation, that is crass and uncouth of HAL.

[superstein61]

I have to agree with this. Short and sweet is much better. The additional comments about the hard working staff etc., was not necessary.

Thank you Gizmo.

 

IMO, Having HAL say:

 

is the automatic tips would not be applied for the extra days and pax were free to do as they pleased.

 

would have been the right thing to do under the circumstances. This wasn't a typical cruise and needed a different approach IMO

[dakrewser]

Boy dave - you will go to untold lengths to defend HAL.

Sorry, but I would say the same about any organization treated the same way.

 

Oh, and BTW - you need a bigger sample size for a ship filled with 1200+ pax to draw any statistically relevant conclusion. The people that post here do not IMO represent the true PAX mix on a HAL cruise

Quite true. But my 8-10 beats your 1 any day of the week. You can hold any opinion you like, just don'r expect anyone else to believe you when the "facts", such as they are, don't support you.

 

-dave

[superstein61]

Sorry, but I would say the same about any organization treated the same way.

 

 

Quite true. But my 8-10 beats your 1 any day of the week. You can hold any opinion you like, just don'r expect anyone else to believe you when the "facts", such as they are, don't support you.

 

-dave

Keep trying dave, keep trying