Would bad weather and canceled ports ruin your Asia cruise?

[songanddance]

First let me thank Ms. Brown for the fine reviews of both Hong Kong and Shanghai. I will be on the QE2 for her final world cruise in just a few short weeks and the port data is very useful.

 

As to the Shaphire Princess cruise, I have never read such whining. First off, a ship such as the Shaphire Princess was not really built for typhoon type weather. It along with most all of the newer ships are simply floating hotels. So the captain has to lean way onto the side of caution when faced with bad weather. And there is only so far that he can take the ship away from the problem weather if he wishes to retain any schedule at all. Maybe it would be best for the line to simply not offer the venue when typhoons are possible but then passengers desiring such a venue would be up in arms.

 

I do agree that on-board reaction to these problems can be slow in coming but besides bringing the ship safely into harbor and keeping it a float when on the high seas, the captain has no control over credits, free booze, future crusies etc. Those are all corporate decisions made on shore. Anyone who has read any cruise line posts knows that on-shore people have a serious disconect with what happens on board any ship. Most corporations in most any industry do not react on a dime but take time to sort through the problem and act in THEIR best interst. Giving up some 2,500 half price future cruises and $500 - $1,000 OBC is a lot of money to just toss away in the name of public relations and it takes time to decide.

 

I my opinion, the cruising public (no change that to The Public at large) has come to expect way too much in the way of rewards for problems that the average business simply can not anticipate.

 

In the case of the Shaphire Princess, maybe the captain should have docked in the Vietnam ports and after losing a tender or two to the high waves and possibly a passenger or two, the rest of the passengers could have gotten their Vietnam fix. and why not try to sail a ten story building with very little depth below the water line through a typhoon and see how it takes a 70 foot wave broadside. I'll bet it would make any other type of entertainment held that day pale by comparison.

 

So long rant short finish. Get a life and stop the whining.

[Monkeythyme]

I voted that the compensation offered was fair. Now, I would like to qualify that opinion. While fair, the deal would have been far better received had it been more timely. Considering that any TA can get you a 36% discount on this particular cruise, and more than 50% on most others, it was actually an offer of 22% at best if based on the advertised price.

As for my own self: While I will sadly admit I wasted the first sixty-three years of my life on land, I am now dedicated to making up for it.

A bad day at sea beats a good day in port.

[ON cruiser]

Yikes, Carolyn, in your recent message above you describe consistent rudeness at the Purser's desk, isolated rudeness by the shore excursions staff, line ups of 2 hours plus at the tender area due to what must have been poor planning and mismanagement, yet you believe that senior management of the ship really were concerned? But, obviously not so concerned as to address the problems that are management's responsibility and are within management's control, whilst the weather clearly is not.

 

Your final comment, that all employees of (all) cruiselines need to remember "the customer" is well taken, and would apply to anyone in a service business.

 

As to the poll, in my view the OB credit and future cruise option was more than fair, but likely would not have to have been offered, or at a lesser amount, if communications from the outset had been improved. As another correspondent observed, making everyone--passengers & crew--feel that "we're all in this together" may have gained a lot of goodwill, as contrasted with the ostrich routine of ignoring the customers that generates badwill.

 

Just my opinion...

[Monkeythyme]

Anyone who has read any cruise line posts knows that on-shore people have a serious disconect with what happens on board any ship. Most corporations in most any industry do not react on a dime but take time to sort through the problem and act in THEIR best interst. Giving up some 2,500 half price future cruises and $500 - $1,000 OBC is a lot of money to just toss away in the name of public relations and it takes time to decide.

 

Point well made. BUT, why does corporate management have to react to a common problem as though it were a one-time event? Storms happen; always have, always will. Establish a policy, graduated for severity if necessary, and use it to respond promptly. As a career bean-counter, I would not be considered the sharpest tool in the shed for cutting through a customer relations problem, but even I can see that what works fastest is what is best for the company. But then I did have a side career in show business, and I learned there that a soft answer turneth away beer bottles.

[jferretti01]

I know it is heart breaking when this like this happen but we all have to remember we can not control the weather. The safty of the passengers come first. You also have to remember that it is not captians choice as to what kind of refunds, credits, or compensation will be issued. They must go through the parent company for any decisions like that so it may take a few days to let the passengers know what they will receive. The cruise line do the best they can at the time but must be given time to decide what they can offer to the passengers. You should do your best to enjoy you vacation with what you have to deal with and the rest will workout for the best. Stop wanting everything for free, You still went to several wonderful places.

[hammybee]

When we travel, we accept all the uncertainties associated with it and occasionally that means, all the best plans go astray, due to weather or unforeseen mechanical issues, beyond anyone's control.

 

Some people can embrase these uncertainties better than others. And some probably should just stay home, where they perceive they have more control.

 

I see a potential business opportunity to create an optional insurance policy to assign a dollar value to the risk of missed ports, due to events beyond the passengers' control, like weather, mechanical failure or local conditions.

[grannynurse]

At the risk of sounding redundant, I agree that lack of communication was the trigger for the high rate of indignation. I also feel that princess, in the end, made a fair offer of compensation, which they were not obligated legally to do.

During 2 near-recent transatlantic voyages, 2003 and 2004, we ran into some nasty weather in the English Channel and the North Sea. We missed a total or 4 ports, and spent an extra day weathering in Amsterdam. HAL refunded us all port charges, gave free champagne, added onboard activities, and eliminated some of the formal nights. No one seemed unduly annoyed, and several embarking pax had to fly to Dublin to board as Harwhich was also canceled.

With this in mind, and recognizing our litigious and entitlement-minded society, I am less tolerant of the trouble makers than I am of the cruise lines initial poor communication, even though I think this added to the

fray.

Thanks Carolyn for your very balanced report.

GN

[hammybee]

I have long wondered why mass marketed cruise lines do not do mandatory embarkation talks for all passengers to better manage passenger expectations, similar to that which is done in most schools.

 

Be upfront about cruise line policies, whatever they are relative to passenger behaviors, smoking, lounge chairs, tipping, attire and the endless uncertainties of travel, including but not limited to weather, mechanical issues and sickness. This is not rocket science. The wheel does not need to be reinvented on each cruise and handled in a panic mode.

 

Communicate upfront the consequences of passenger misbehavior and what compensation will or will not be forthcoming should the unexpected occur.

 

Failure to educate passengers reinforces passenger tantrums. Cause and effect.

[houston77068]

:) I've been on cruises like this one before many times that had multiple port cancellations or itenararies changes and never expected or demanded compensation. That is just something that happens and you just can't let those things ruin your vacation, make the best of a bad situation. Cruise lines and the media have fed this expectation demand from cruisers, but the anger could be defused if the staff was better trained in customer relations and less restrained by the home office in making compromises. These big ships seem to have the effect of making crew and passengers like strangers.

[sealover155]

We've traveled to Asia at least a dozen times, all on land trips. Yes, it does get under your skin! Favorite country, Thailand, by the way. But we've missed some places and are now considering a cruise that would stop at places in Japan and Vietnam that we've missed.

 

Although it took awhile for the ship to clear in various ports on Carolyn's trip, you should all know how tedious it is to clear customs in certain airports like Shanghai and Beijing. It's.....a.......royal.......pain. The worst experience was Shanghai's new airport 2 years ago.

 

But we adored Shanghai and can't wait to return. Carolyn, and others interested in this extraordinary city should read this riveting memoir, "Falling Leaves" by Adeline Yen Mah. It will give you an amazing glimpse into the last 60 years of history and the Chinese culture in general. And, you will not be able to put it down!

 

Mary Anne

[editor@cruisecritic]

Yes, Rusty makes a good point; while I noted they were free I did not say who was paying. In our case I assume it was the ports. I know it was not Princess....

 

Frankly though it seems to me if the ports want the passenger traffic they need to make an effort, too....

 

Thanks, Rusty.

 

Carolyn

 

 

Having read the reports of your Asia cruise, just a reminder to your readers: ALL of the free shuttles that you mention are NOT provided by Princess. They are provided by the local cities and in most cases are provided by the local "chamber of commerce"(stores, shops, etc.). They are very convenient and of course free. They do have enough buses(except at crunch times--just before the ship leaves port) and they run on a regular and frequent schedule. They are intended for independent travelers that like to do things on their own. A big thanks to those cities in Asia that provide this much needed service.

 

Just an additional note: Very rarely does Princess ever announce these free shuttles in advance. Sometimes they do make this information known AFTER the cruise excursion cancellation deadline has passed.

[editor@cruisecritic]

IMHO -- you hit the nail on the head.

 

Carolyn

 

I voted that the compensation offered was fair. Now, I would like to qualify that opinion. While fair, the deal would have been far better received had it been more timely. Considering that any TA can get you a 36% discount on this particular cruise, and more than 50% on most others, it was actually an offer of 22% at best if based on the advertised price.

As for my own self: While I will sadly admit I wasted the first sixty-three years of my life on land, I am now dedicated to making up for it.

A bad day at sea beats a good day in port.

[curiouscat]

We've traveled to Asia at least a dozen times, all on land trips. Yes, it does get under your skin! Favorite country, Thailand, by the way. But we've missed some places and are now considering a cruise that would stop at places in Japan and Vietnam that we've missed.

 

Although it took awhile for the ship to clear in various ports on Carolyn's trip, you should all know how tedious it is to clear customs in certain airports like Shanghai and Beijing. It's.....a.......royal.......pain. The worst experience was Shanghai's new airport 2 years ago.

 

But we adored Shanghai and can't wait to return. Carolyn, and others interested in this extraordinary city should read this riveting memoir, "Falling Leaves" by Adeline Yen Mah. It will give you an amazing glimpse into the last 60 years of history and the Chinese culture in general. And, you will not be able to put it down!

 

Mary Anne

 

 

So for one's first and maybe only visit to Asia would you recommend land or sea.? I'v seen some land tours that start in Hong Kong, go to Vietnam w/ a couple of cities staying overnite and then on to Singapore.... What kind of land tours do you do??

 

I really want to see the city and stay for dinner and overnite... I thinking cruising is great but not every city is a "port" city that you can see in one day.

 

Thanks

CuriousCat

[CathyK2]

We've been to Asia twice. Once for land and the second time by cruise with Princess. We too missed a port due to a typhoon. In our case, we were in Hong Kong at the time they told us about it and told us we would be spending the night in Hong Kong and missing our next port which was Pusan, Korea.

 

Since I had been to Hong Kong before but never to Korea, it wouldn't have been my first choice, but from those that had been on this itenary, they said if we had to miss a port from the Bangkok to Beijing itenary, we missed the right one.

 

I guess I will never know and I never heard anyone complaining since most just went out and enjoyed the night life of Hong Kong, making the best of it. The skyline is gorgeous at night, so I'm sure those that were there for the first time, loved it.

 

I never heard anything about any compensation on that cruise, but then again, it just didn't seem like it mattered that much to most people. Then again, it wasn't a port that most of us had looked forward to the most.

 

For us, we loved Thailand and Vietnam the most but the whole cruise was wonderful.

 

Cathy

[sealover155]

So for one's first and maybe only visit to Asia would you recommend land or sea.? I'v seen some land tours that start in Hong Kong, go to Vietnam w/ a couple of cities staying overnite and then on to Singapore.... What kind of land tours do you do??

 

I really want to see the city and stay for dinner and overnite... I thinking cruising is great but not every city is a "port" city that you can see in one day.

 

Thanks

CuriousCat

 

We are very independent travelers and have never done a "tour" of any kind. But I believe that organized tours are an excellent option for many. I think the reason we love Asia is because we have seen parts of these countries in depth. We, do extensive research planning each trip so there are few surprises.

 

We generally stick to 2 countries to visit in a 10 day to 2 week time period. On our first trip we went to Japan and Hong Kong and took a day trip to Macaau and the New Territories. That was before it was possible to visit mainland China. Next was Thailand and as mentioned earlier, we fell in love with all things Thai. Over the last 5 years we've visited Bangkok, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, and the Golden Triangle (where we spent a day at a mahut training camp learning how to care for, communicate with and ride an elephant!).

 

China is a whole separate consideration. We've only been to Beijing and Shanghai. Most of the cultural experiences are in Beijing, most of the excitement and fun is in Shanghai, although, we adored the Museum of Urban Planning and the Shanghai Museum in Shanghai. I deeply regret that we were unable to visit Xian. Were I interested in China and had never been, I'd look into a tour that included all of these cities and a Yangtze River Cruise.

 

We adore cruises, in general, because it provides a quick overview of places that you can decide whether or not you want to return to and invest further money and time. And some countries are especially suited for cruise stops, such as Japan and Vietnam as you can easily visit the highlights without too long a bus trip in the morning.

 

In summary, I'd evaluate what countries are of the most interest and whether or not I'd be likely to make a return trip. If I chose a cruise, I'd probably try to spring for a smaller ship that can dock closer to the cities. The last time I was in Hong Kong, Seabourn was docked right next to the Star Ferry - prime real estate, to be sure!

 

Hope this helps,

Mary Anne

[Pam in CA]

There's no way to predict that a typhoon, or typhoons will affect a cruise, even if it's typhoon season. People cruising the Caribbean in August, September and October take that into consideration. Should the cruiselines stop cruising the Caribbean "just in case" there's a hurricane or typhoon? Should passengers do their research and know that they're cruising during a hurricane or typhoon season? I don't think so for the former and think so for the latter. On our Golden cruise last February, it was too cold to even be in the covered pool area. The CD planned very few activities so that people milled around looking for something to do. Should we have been compensated because it was cold out and there was nothing to do? Ports are missed all the time due to weather, including ports in a row.

 

I'd be interested in knowing who the CD was on this cruise. A good CD can make all the difference. This is where I feel that a creative and properly trained CD (rather than one who can tell jokes, sing a song or put on a good morning show -- they're generally useless when it comes to really planning activities IMHO) can put together activities that will appeal to the passengers and keep them occupied.

 

Yes, I think Princess should have done more for the passengers right off the bat but that's where a good CD comes in. I've been on cruises with lots of sea days and have seen the difference. It doesn't take a huge budget -- just some creativity.

[jakt]

Have never sailed with this line, but they can't be held responsible for the weather issue. The Pacific has a typhoon season, like it or not. And I would rather have a cruise line and captain make a decision in favour of safety than not.

 

Of course it is disappointing when you don't get to the places you think you are going -- but every ticket says that the internary may change.

 

That said, information, helpful advice, and some kind of compensation at the outset goes a long way. Most people are pretty sensible, and will react that way, even when disappointed.

 

Will be watching for the write-ups of the trip -- lived in Singapore for 3 years and enjoyed the write-up of that. I could smell and taste all my favourites during my read. Of course, you missed the REAL Raffles (I was there 1986-1989) with the REAL Long Bar -- open to the street to catch all the passing sights. It did have no air-conditioning, and most Americans did not like that bit of authencity. Thanks for bringing back a lot of wonderful memories.

[Tarheelbelle]

50% off a future cruise is, in my opinion, more than generous, but I do think they could have done more on the cruise itself to make passengers more comfortable in the present [e.g. free drinks coupons; better communication.]

[leecim]

Two typhoons, a person reported overboard, 4 missed ports, a mutiny by the passengers. How many cruisers can claim to have such fun on a cruise. My wife and I with friends were on this cruise and in the end it will be the highlight of all our cruises to date. Although there are certain things the cruise line can't control like the weather, the communication aspect of the problem was poorly handled by the staff, especailly in my opion the call at Keelung, The ship channel said we were docked when if you looked outside we were still at sea. Communciation, Communication was sorely lacking on this cruise. On the flight home the wife said " with all the problems it was the dream of a lifetime" Make lemonade from lemons and you enjoy life more.

[10X]

Although I wasn't on this cruise, we have recently had the experiences of having Princess cancel two cruises on us. We booked a 31 day Sydney - San Francisco for 2008 on the Sun Princess. Princess cancelled the cruise but re-scheduled it for 2009 on the Dawn Princess. They have now cancelled the 2009 cruise and replaced it with a 35 day cruise, also on the Dawn Princess, with a poor (as far as we are concerned) itinerary. Our offer was also for 50% off the 35 day cruise (not any future cruise, but only the 35 day cruise). But it turns out that is not the deal that it sounds to be.

 

We had our travel agent price this and we found out that 50% off is on brochure prices only, which no one really pays anyway. The final price came out to be about $100 less than we originally were going to pay using our travel agent's best price.

 

As near as I can see, getting 50% off a future cruise really doesn't cost Princess anything and you take a hosing while thinking you got something good. The passengers on the Sapphire Princess are all thinking that 50% off really was a nice gesture while they really didn't get anything and Princess can smile all the way to the bank.

 

We have opted not to take the 35 day cruise. Why pay a regular travel agent's fare for a cruise itinerary that we don't like?

[CamryMyst]

Oh yes, I forgot about the man overboard bit! The missed ports on the cruise were the main reason for selecting this itinerary as we have been to Shanghai, Nagasaki and Beijing on a prior Princess Asia Cruise. However, the situation was entirely out of Princess's hands and I am equally sure that attempts to make any of the missed porrs would have also resulted in complaints about the tenders, the weather, etc. I felt the captain was remiss in late or no communication, in making small offers of free drinks, internet or photos, but was amazed and satisfied with the shipboard credit and future cruise discount. I am Elite with Princess.

[mrspunker]

This kind of stuff has happened to us also. I missed Normandy :( But all in all you have to make do. remember what we are there for. to have a great experience. It was a weather thing. Yes I think they should have compensated us. But .... It was a great cruise. It was my second on the Grand. Hey we love it. How about you ???:) Seriously thinking about a repositioning cruise next November from Rome to Ft. Lodi doawdie. any takers out there ?? 21 dayer

[DonahCBrown]

We were on the Sapphire 10/17 and 11/2 sailings (Hi Nancy and Gene) and, as mentioned, missed Nagasaki on the 11/2 due to a medical emergency. This was communicated promptly and fully and the compensating overnight in Shanghai, in my opinion made up for the loss of a brief call in Nagasaki-although I might have felt differently had we not just been there.

 

The challenge of keeping 2700 disappointed and restive passengers entertained in inclement weather must have been enormous, and if Sammi Baker, the CD on both our cruises as well as the ill fated 11/18 sailing was reduced to napkin folding, you can rest assured that there was nothing else anyone could think of to suggest.

 

I'm frankly surprised at the reports of the Captain not communicating. That certainly wasn't the case on our two cruises, albeit only one with captain of the 11/18 cruise.

 

As far as the lack of good organization in crowd control and tender management, sadly, this is something that Princess does not excel at at the best of times. The management folks could take a lot of lessons from Disney I expect. I could have done a better job organizing the tender ticket operations myself, and on both our cruises, the temperature screening thing for the Okinawa stop was total chaos. Interestingly, though, it seems that this was unique to the Okinawan authorities, as the Nagasaki folks very sensibly did the screen at the gangway with no fuss or muss.

 

Buck passing between the Purser and the Tour desk was both unfortunate and unacceptable, but, given the general tenor of the cruise, possibly understandable among the junior crew members who may just not have either the experience or the maturity to handle the kind of emotion laden passengers that evidently were presenting at the desk. Senior staff should have been providing back up and certainly should have been empowered to make some decisions regarding grievances as presented.

 

With respect to the compensation package offered, I would have accepted it happily.

[A J Theodore]

While Princess (really Carnival senior management in Florida) certainly could have handled this much more expeditiously, weather problems are a fact of life in cruising. What is far worse, in my opinion, is when the cruise line simply chooses to disregard an itinerary where there are no weather-related reasons. I was subjected to this in 2004 on the Radisson (now Regent) Voyager. The following, slightly edited, is from the review I posted of that cruise:

One of the reasons we selected this cruise is that the advertised itinerary for this trip, about 14 days from Singapore to Tokyo, actually two segments of the 2004 Circle Pacific Cruise, was exciting and enticing.

Radisson, however, chose to disregard the itinerary. One port (Hong Kong) was extended by a day, two port days were changed altogether, two port stops were shortened (one of them by about 12 hours and one by about 5), and one stop was eliminated altogether. (One additional port was missed because of bad weather.) There were no weather problems or terrorism concerns to justify any one of those unexplained changes.

While the schedule changes were bad enough, Radisson compounded the problem. Passenger questions/complaints about these changes were given short shrift by senior staff. As one senior official in the hotel department said when I asked what was going on with the constantly changing schedule, and this is a direct quote, “We can do whatever we want."

While we now know that several of the changes were decided by Radisson management days in advance (including changing of two port days), none of them were announced until the last minute. As a result, several passengers missed out on private sight-seeing. Personally, we missed the opportunity to see a former colleague and friend who only had one day available to see us.

We also now know that the ship was apparently physically unable to proceed at a speed that would allow it to make its ports at the scheduled time. Although a Radisson official says that this has been corrected in all subsequent schedules, it does not excuse that Radission advertised and sold a cruise that it could not provide (one of my lawyer friends even went so far at to say that this may amount to false advertising).

Passengers deserve the cruise paid for. When Radisson elected not to deliver that cruise, we deserved two things. First, we deserved prompt notification of the changes. Second, we deserved a clear and compelling explanation for divergence from the schedule or some form of restitution and/or apology. Radisson provided neither.

Unlike Princess, neither during the cruise nor afterward did Radisson offer any form of compensation. My requests (and those of my travel agent) were consistently rebuffed; I just don't know whether any other passengers received more favorable treatment.

Finally, it should be noted that Radisson/Regent, to this date, advertises that it will not change its itinerary except for weather or other circumstances beyond its control. It's cruise "contract," however, states that it may change its itinerary at any time and may do so without any reason. I can only guess what the lawyers may say about this.

[vmboo]

Princess is most unaccomodating. Three years ago my husband I took a wedding cruise with about 20 in our party. We requested early dining (one person could not eat late). Although we booked one year in advance we were told it was booked up, and that the early dining could not be accomodated. Phone requests were rejected, I was even hung up on by a supervisor. We wrote to the President and got a turn down letter stating they could do anything for us, and quoting policy. Once on board, they did manage to give us a standing dinner time with their "flexible dining" option. However, their lack of customer service prior to the cruise I will never forget. They also did not even give us a bottle of champagne or any nice gesture, with consideration to our problems, the business we gave them (most people never cruised prior) and the fact we were getting married. So beware of this cruise line. They obviously do not value their customers.