Question for Pierces

[cruzegirl]

Ok my friend,

I would like to utilize your knowledge and experience and see what suggestions you have for me. I currently have an Olympus Stylus 600 point/shoot and then my Canon Digital Rebel. The Olympus is an awesome little camera but limited. Can't change lenses and only zooms so far. But I use it for underwater and have gotten some decent shots actually for a little camera. It's surpassed my expectations both in quality and in the fact it's lasted this long. I've had it almost 2 years. And I got it because I refused to put the rebel in the water.

I also love my Rebel but it doesn't do movies, it's horrible in really low light. And it's a heavy camera. But that's not a deal breaker. The low light/night shots are the deal breaker. I'm always arguing with it. And the fact there is no movie capability.

So, I'm thinking of maybe (there's nothing wrong with other 2) purchasing a new camera. I'm wondering what you think of the Olympus SP 550 UZ? I consider myself an intermediate photographer. I think I was one in my former life. lol. But I'm beyond beginner but certainly wouldn't call myself a photographer professionally. Though I would also like to do some classes going back to basics. But I require alot being a diver as well. I'm always annoying my friends taking photos but I feel I'm also capturing memories...

This is what I would want in a dream camera.

Both an LCD view finder and eye piece view finder

Larger LCD view finder-I am getting a little older.. lol

Underwater scene choices

Movie capability

Not as heavy as a typical DSLR

Manual photo choices, i.e. white balance, iso

Ergonomic friendly

Can go in an underwater housing

Can handle low light

Has extended or beyond typical zoom capability

Rechargeable batteries would be great

Doesn't have long zoom time or high shutter lag

I think that's all. Like I said, the others work and are in excellent condition. But I'm toying with the new purchase idea. Any help would be appreciated..... Thanks.

[harjoe]

Have You Looked At The Panasonic FZ18

Good Luck Les.

[pierces]

Where to start...

 

First of all, if you are unhappy with the low-light performance of the DSLR, you're going to hate what a superzoom like the 550UZ puts out! DSLRs by nature have more area per pixel (they gather more light with less noise-producing amplification) than compacts or superzooms and can produce smoother, less noisy images as a result. Please describe your low-light problems since this may be a user issue (inexperience). I don't say that to be mean, it's just that one of the reasons people go to DSLRs is their low-light performance and even the original 6MP Digital Rebel was known as a decent performer in this area.

 

Here's a review of the Oly camera: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympussp550uz/

Oly offers a dedicated underwater housing, but it costs as much or more than the camera.

 

You may also want to check out the aforementioned Panasonic:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/FZ18/FZ18A.HTM

 

Sony H9:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh9/,

 

or the Canon S5IS:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons5is/

 

My suggestion would be to hang on to the Rebel and get something like the new SD870IS Canon compact (low shutter lag, but not a DSLR!) with a dedicated waterproof housing for water time or for rain and dust protection (it has an underwater scene mode). It takes very acceptable movies and really great pictures. It also has a bright, beautiful 3" LCD on the back to use as a viewfinder (pretty good even in sunlight!)

 

Remember, the best all-around camera is sometimes 2 (or three!) cameras...

 

Let me know details on the low-light disappointment, I think there's help to be had.

 

My opinion...your mileage may vary.

 

Dave

[cruzegirl]

Thanks for your info. Piereces.... I knew you would have several ideas. lol.

I don't really don't want to get rid of my DSLR. Spent so much money on that camera and lenses. My low light issues aren't necessarily the image as is, I can't get to an image. There are so many times when I'm doing really low light, outdoor at night or moonlight shots and it just doesn't take at all. I can press until my fingers go numb and nada. Or if it does manage to take a shot, it looks completely black on the image with a white dot for a moon. See examples below.

Moon with Olympus

Here's a shot from Hawaii just for definition

Moonlit shot from my cruise with my Olympus

Underwater shot with Olympus

Yet my Olympus takes it and does a pretty good job. So that's why I'm not in an all fire hurry but I know there will come a time to get a new one. I'm going to Tahiti in October and planning on taking both. Kind of a pain but I know there will be shots the Olympus won't handle and the Rebel doesn't go underwater at this time..... lol.... and any thoughts or info. would be greatly appreciated....

[pierces]

I don't really don't want to get rid of my DSLR. Spent so much money on that camera and lenses. My low light issues aren't necessarily the image as is, I can't get to an image. There are so many times when I'm doing really low light, outdoor at night or moonlight shots and it just doesn't take at all. I can press until my fingers go numb and nada. Or if it does manage to take a shot, it looks completely black on the image with a white dot for a moon. See examples below.

Moon with Olympus

 

Keep in mind that the moon is in direct sunlight. If you were to shoot the moon in the sky during the daytime, you might use 1/125 at f/16 with the camera set to ISO100. The same is true at night. You camera's meter tries to expose for an average. The average for a sunlit moon and a black sky is what you see above. Your Rebel doesn't have a spotmeter (takes a light reading from 2%-3% from the center of the picture) so you would have to set the exposure manually. Experiment..."film" is free!

 

In this photo, I exposed for the foreground and let the moon overexpose so I could get the reflection. Note the railings have a yellowish cast...that's because the white balance read the moonlight as sun-lit.

 

Then you see a night-lit (not lit with flash) scene with the moon as anything other than an over-exposed blob, the image has been manipulated. The only exception would be near dusk or just before sunrise when the moon is close to the horizon.

 

Here's a shot from Hawaii just for definition

 

 

 

Nothing wrong there...actually well exposed. If you wanted deeper color or more sky detail, you would have underexposed by a stop or more (-1 using the Av +/- button on the back).

 

 

 

Moonlit shot from my cruise with my Olympus

 

 

The Olympus actually got pretty close on the exposure by automatically using high ISO, but it is showing a lot of digital noise (remember my reference in the previous post). I set my compact to always shoot at ISO 100. That way it doesn't sneak the ISO up on me automatically. The Rebel would have nailed this with some tweaking on the exposure.

 

 

Underwater shot with Olympus

 

Yet my Olympus takes it and does a pretty good job. So that's why I'm not in an all fire hurry but I know there will come a time to get a new one. I'm going to Tahiti in October and planning on taking both. Kind of a pain but I know there will be shots the Olympus won't handle and the Rebel doesn't go underwater at this time..... lol.... and any thoughts or info. would be greatly appreciated....

 

The shot above is, as you said, just fine. If it's working for you, keep using it. If you are really serious about the UW shooting, you can really give them a boost with an external flash.

 

http://www.sealife-cameras.com/accessories/digital_flash.html

 

The advantage to one of these units is that they fire as a slave flash when your camera flash fires with no wire, so if you ever replace the camera, the flash will work with it too. Not cheap, but good things sledom are...:(

 

Happy shooting!

 

Dave

[randy98mtu]

Thanks for your info. Piereces.... I knew you would have several ideas. lol.

I don't really don't want to get rid of my DSLR. Spent so much money on that camera and lenses. My low light issues aren't necessarily the image as is, I can't get to an image. There are so many times when I'm doing really low light, outdoor at night or moonlight shots and it just doesn't take at all. I can press until my fingers go numb and nada. Or if it does manage to take a shot, it looks completely black on the image with a white dot for a moon. See examples below.

 

The only time my 40D won't take a picture is when it can't autofocus. Next time you have trouble, try putting the lens in MF and hit the shutter just to see if that was the problem. Aside from that, we would need to see some sample pictures from the Rebel to know what other problems might be. It sounds like it might be underexposing? Try the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. I got the book on pierces advice and it was great. It may help you understand how to get the pictures you are after. This was with my 40D sitting on a barrel since I didn't have a tripod. They can take great night pictures.

 

[pierces]

Randy: thanks for mentioning the Understanding Exposure book! I forgot!:eek:

 

Dave

[theotherchad]

They've already covered issues with exposing for uneven light within a scene by compensating the exposure and also setting your focus to Manual since most DSLRs (all of them as far as I know) won't trip the shutter if the focus isn't locked.

 

But don't forget that you can bounce the ISO rating up to at least 1600 to get superior low light capability. You'll get some more digital noise (similar to film grain), but it really is a handy tool. I shot some candle lit faces without tripod or stabilizing lens by setting the ISO on my D200 to 6400, and got some wonderful (grainy, but pretty) shots. Moonlit scenes are a gimme with high ISO settings.

[pierces]

Good points!

 

They've already covered issues with exposing for uneven light within a scene by compensating the exposure and also setting your focus to Manual since most DSLRs (all of them as far as I know) won't trip the shutter if the focus isn't locked.

 

Not being picky (just an FYI), but most DSLRs actually can be set to Release Priority rather than Focus Priority via the settings menu. The option is there mostly for action shooters where they might want the shot even if focus isn't locked. I happen to agree with you that manual focus in really bad light is preferable or even necessary.

 

But don't forget that you can bounce the ISO rating up to at least 1600 to get superior low light capability. You'll get some more digital noise (similar to film grain), but it really is a handy tool. I shot some candle lit faces without tripod or stabilizing lens by setting the ISO on my D200 to 6400, and got some wonderful (grainy, but pretty) shots. Moonlit scenes are a gimme with high ISO settings.

 

Absolutely! But this advice is only for the DSLR,,,right?;)

 

A DSLR will indeed provide excellent images with reasonable grain at very high ISO settings. A compact like the OP's Oly 600 or my Canon Elph can shoot at ISO 1600, but the pictures look like they were scribbled on 60-grit sandpaper with a crayon!:eek:

 

Dave

[pnut362]

i would definately check out the Canon S5 Powershot ( I personally have the s3 and LOVE LOVE it!!!)

[pnut362]

i also have the Understanding Exposure book mentioned above - great addition to any collection!

[cruzegirl]

Keep in mind that the moon is in direct sunlight. If you were to shoot the moon in the sky during the daytime, you might use 1/125 at f/16 with the camera set to ISO100. The same is true at night. You camera's meter tries to expose for an average. The average for a sunlit moon and a black sky is what you see above. Your Rebel doesn't have a spotmeter (takes a light reading from 2%-3% from the center of the picture) so you would have to set the exposure manually. Experiment..."film" is free!

 

In this photo, I exposed for the foreground and let the moon overexpose so I could get the reflection. Note the railings have a yellowish cast...that's because the white balance read the moonlight as sun-lit.

 

Then you see a night-lit (not lit with flash) scene with the moon as anything other than an over-exposed blob, the image has been manipulated. The only exception would be near dusk or just before sunrise when the moon is close to the horizon.

 

 

 

Nothing wrong there...actually well exposed. If you wanted deeper color or more sky detail, you would have underexposed by a stop or more (-1 using the Av +/- button on the back).

 

 

 

 

 

The Olympus actually got pretty close on the exposure by automatically using high ISO, but it is showing a lot of digital noise (remember my reference in the previous post). I set my compact to always shoot at ISO 100. That way it doesn't sneak the ISO up on me automatically. The Rebel would have nailed this with some tweaking on the exposure.

 

 

 

 

The shot above is, as you said, just fine. If it's working for you, keep using it. If you are really serious about the UW shooting, you can really give them a boost with an external flash.

 

http://www.sealife-cameras.com/accessories/digital_flash.html

 

The advantage to one of these units is that they fire as a slave flash when your camera flash fires with no wire, so if you ever replace the camera, the flash will work with it too. Not cheap, but good things sledom are...:(

 

Happy shooting!

 

Dave

 

What great advice. I will look to doing that.... If this dang rain would stop, I could get out and play....lol..... I really like your ship/moon shot....Lovely.......

I did go and play with the SP 550 UZ..... And purchased it.... I don't do RAW photos much so that's not an issue.... But I love the overall camera.... So now I'm going to try to sell my Olympus point/shoot as a combo package with the underwater housing.... I loved your website for photo info. on there.... Thanks for having that... It's helpful to us novices...... ;)

[cruzegirl]

The only time my 40D won't take a picture is when it can't autofocus. Next time you have trouble, try putting the lens in MF and hit the shutter just to see if that was the problem. Aside from that, we would need to see some sample pictures from the Rebel to know what other problems might be. It sounds like it might be underexposing? Try the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. I got the book on pierces advice and it was great. It may help you understand how to get the pictures you are after. This was with my 40D sitting on a barrel since I didn't have a tripod. They can take great night pictures.

 

 

Randy,

That shot is absolutely amazing.... Unreal......

[cruzegirl]

Hey Dave,

Ok, I'm back with some thoughts on this camera and some advice needed.

I've been playing with daytime, night time, wide angle underwater and inside shots... All kinds of different things..... But I've come across something that is a major disservice of this camera. And Olympus should give a refund on this issue. I should have also played more too.

Let me preface by saying I actually love this camera. Love the zoom and many of it's features. I don't regret buying it but also need a recommendation of a book or site that can walk me through the basics of photography. As if I'd never picked up a camera. I need education to do some of my underwater photos in manual mode. I understand ISO pretty well. But apeture and f-stop and such do confuse me.

Not sure if you've ever handled this camera but for anyone considering it that is a diver, really check out the underwater selection scenes before you purchase. My Stylus 600 underwater selection scenes were the best. I have some great shots. The SP 550 has underwater scene selection too. The underwater wide was great. Check out some shots playing in the pool. But the Macro, is the worst ever and shouldn't be advertised as a choice. This selection locks or fixes the zoom on the lens. But it "locks" it out. I can't tell what the zoom is at. Can't find that info. But to focus on something small for Macro, you have to be anywhere from 4-6 feet to focus on the subject. It must have been a nim con poop that decided that or designed it. No diver, who does Macro will settle for being 4-6 feet away unless it's a really skiddish fish. But here's the kicker. For Macro, underwater, the image stabilization can't do it's thing very well do to the water/current. It's almost useless. Any diver that does underwater Macro generally is almost "on top" of their subject. It's a Nudibranch or an anenome or coral, or arrow crab type thing. I called Olympus just dumb founded that anyone thinks this is oK. That this is an acceptable way/position for that zoom for Macro. Unreal.

So I am going to have to go to manual selections and I'm a novice at that. Any advice would be great. I did go to your website and it did give me some info. But I really need to start at the beginning. I want lessons, to work with someone but can't find lessons locally.... Any advice would be great. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[pierces]

Hey Dave,

Ok, I'm back with some thoughts on this camera and some advice needed.

I've been playing with daytime, night time, wide angle underwater and inside shots... All kinds of different things..... But I've come across something that is a major disservice of this camera. And Olympus should give a refund on this issue. I should have also played more too.

 

Let me preface by saying I actually love this camera. Love the zoom and many of it's features. I don't regret buying it but also need a recommendation of a book or site that can walk me through the basics of photography. As if I'd never picked up a camera. I need education to do some of my underwater photos in manual mode. I understand ISO pretty well. But apeture and f-stop and such do confuse me.

 

Not sure if you've ever handled this camera but for anyone considering it that is a diver, really check out the underwater selection scenes before you purchase. My Stylus 600 underwater selection scenes were the best. I have some great shots. The SP 550 has underwater scene selection too. The underwater wide was great. Check out some shots playing in the pool. But the Macro, is the worst ever and shouldn't be advertised as a choice. This selection locks or fixes the zoom on the lens. But it "locks" it out. I can't tell what the zoom is at. Can't find that info. But to focus on something small for Macro, you have to be anywhere from 4-6 feet to focus on the subject. It must have been a nim con poop that decided that or designed it. No diver, who does Macro will settle for being 4-6 feet away unless it's a really skiddish fish. But here's the kicker. For Macro, underwater, the image stabilization can't do it's thing very well do to the water/current. It's almost useless. Any diver that does underwater Macro generally is almost "on top" of their subject. It's a Nudibranch or an anenome or coral, or arrow crab type thing. I called Olympus just dumb founded that anyone thinks this is oK. That this is an acceptable way/position for that zoom for Macro. Unreal.

 

So I am going to have to go to manual selections and I'm a novice at that. Any advice would be great. I did go to your website and it did give me some info. But I really need to start at the beginning. I want lessons, to work with someone but can't find lessons locally.... Any advice would be great. Thanks.

 

 

 

Some pre-set scene modes designed into P&S cameras were, indeed, designed by marketing and not a photographer. Of this, I'm sure!:rolleyes:

 

On my web site, did you see did an article on adding lenses to A DSLR system? It includes a user-friendly explanation of the aperture/shutter/ISO trinity of exposure. It also gives a brief guide to lenses and what focal lengths are suited best for various photographic situations. Not specifically suted for P&S, but good basic info.

 

http://www.pptphoto.com/ArticlePages/AddingLenses.htm

 

A previously-mentioned book that is fairly beginner-friendly is "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson:

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Exposure-Photographs-Digital-Updated/dp/0817463003/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210426095&sr=8-1

 

This Amphoto guide got really good reviews as a comprehensive Beginner's guide:

http://www.amazon.com/Betterphoto-Guide-Digital-Photography-Amphoto/dp/0817435522/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210426770&sr=8-6

 

 

Point and shoot and superzoom cameras aren't just for beginners and I think it's neat that you are looking to expand your use of yours.

 

Dave

[cruzegirl]

Thanks Dave for the info. I will check into those books. The cool thing is that on Scubaboard.com there's a guy that's using my exact camera. And he has some great shots. So he shared his manual settings for macro. That is great to start but I want to just understand the process and then how do it on my camera better. I'm very analytical like that.... lol..... Are you sure you don't want to teach some basic classes?? lol.... Ok, have a great weekend.....

[photodoodle]

Let me preface by saying I'm extremely new to underwater photography, having only tried it once, and I'm sitll early on the learning curve with my new Fuji p&s which I bought for this purpose. (I wrote about it here:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=731685 )

 

The scenario you described with your Olympus intrigued me, so I took out the Fuji and experimented a little.

 

First off, in the case of the Fuji, the Underwater settings have mostly (entirely?) to do with color balance. (I'm recalling this from a quick read of the manual months ago, so I'll have to double check.) I don't know what the case is with Olympus, but if it's the same, you don't really have to use it underwater if it limits you in other ways. You can make adjustments to color balance pretty easily with a variety of software, including, I believe, the free Picassa.

 

I found I was able to shoot in Underwater mode and Macro mode with the Fuji Finepix FD50. I was able to shoot something from about 4 inches away. Granted I was not underwater, but the camera didn't know that.

 

Anyway, I mention this because you might want to add Fuji to the list of cameras you are considering. It is not an ultrazoom, like your Oly, and it doesn't go as wide as the equivalent Canon models. However, Fuji has developed a reputation for handling low light better than other point & shoots, which is why I chose it.

 

Just a thought...

[cruzegirl]

Ok, I'm rather embarassed but must give an update. So much for me being analytical....lol.....

I've also chatted with a guy on scubaboard.com that has used this specific camera in his diving. Has great shots. So I asked, how do you do that? I also explained my dilemma and my disappointment. Well he told me his settings in "P" mode and I've seen his shots. Excellent. Fine.

 

Then he decided to tackle my issue. Well, I think I must have had a Jr. moment, total amnesia or I am just retarded. lol. I feel quite stupid at the moment so please keep any criticism to a minium.

 

When I tried the scene selection of Underwater Macro in the pool, the zoom would not work when in that selection. I tried or think I tried a couple of times and was then so suprised/annoyed, shocked that I didn't try again. And in the wide & movie mode, the zoom worked. So I know the zoom worked a couple of times, I just thought it was this selection.

 

In my home, I tried the underwater selection but was so convinced the lens was fixed and the zoom would not function in that selection, that I never tried again. Went a little off on Olympus but neglected to investigate further.

 

So my chat friend said he tried the scene selection and said his camera zooms in/out in this selection. I'm like, no way. So I get my camera and guess what. Mine ALSO zooms in/out in the macro selection. This is where I feel really dumb. I'm known for being pretty determined and not accepting failure so to know that I never tried again to zoom, leaves me quite red with my tail between my legs....lol.......I mean really, how dumb was that. Now, I do need to put it back in the housing to be sure it's not a housing issue for the initial zoom problem and get a tech to check out the camera to be sure it's not a camera issue. But as of right now, the zoom works on underwater macro and I feel relieved but embarassed. But how else does one learn? Don't answer that too roughly.....lol.....

 

I still want to learn more about manual settings. Will refer to Dave's site and buy a book to understand more so I'm not reliant on the scene selection. I've also had night time capture issues so want to conquer those...... But thanks for the info. gang.......:D :rolleyes: