Rant!!

[Ronrocks!]

How about those who tell the dining room staff they won't be there right from day 1. The eat evey night in the WJ and they tip there accordingly. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

This is what I do. We ate in the dining room one night and tipped them for that night. The other days we ate in the WJ and specialty restaurants and tipped as we went. Sorry I am not going to tip someone who did nothing to earn it. We even tip the pool wait staff and bartenders a little extra for our drinks. So if that makes me cheap so be it.

[misty57]

I think people need to get over the idea that a cruise is all-inclusive. Much is included, but only a cad would not offer a gratuity for service. If you can't afford the tip, in my opinion, you can't afford the meal (or trip). I agree that the cruise line should make it known how the gratuities are divided so that gratuities could be extended to those in other venues on the ship.

[Little Elm]

In other words, you do plan on tipping the WJ staff $3.50 per person, per night, right? Any less and you will be shorting their income, guaranteed. Leaving a buck or two just is not a big deal, I don't think I'd want to work 60-70 hours per week for $25-30, which is probably all they make. I plan on tipping in the DR. We will be eating in the dining room a few times, so they will get the full amount. I was talking about people who would give the full time to the WJ people because they never set foot into the dining room.

 

Although I don't particularly like the concept of a gratuity added automatically, the lines who do this now have happier workers, they are guaranteed their income every week. It's a shame that society has gotten so money grubbing that it has come to the point where this has had to be done. The sophistication has left, we are now a society that doesn't know much about propriety in these situations and we even have to have this type of "conversation" here on these boards. I think the workers would be happier if the tips were paid up front. They would know that anything else that comes in is extra. They would have to worry that they would work their butts off and get nothing.

 

Several years ago NCL tracked the people who opted out of auto-tipping, those people who said they preferred to tip the person waiting on them. What they found was those people tipped no one, ever. So, reading comments like "I want to tip those who serve me" makes me think people who make statements like that just don't leave anyone anything. Don't assume about people.

 

I know there are people who can go to sleep at night knowing they have been served all week by persons working their tails off for nothing, I'm just not one of them. Agreed

 

I don't know if tips are pooled and I really don't care. I look at tips as a gratuity, not a bribe but a gift to those who have taken care of us. I fully expect to give this gift when I book a cruise, it is part of our cruise cost as far as I'm concerned. We give it happily and would give twice the amount if we could afford to do so. I have seen it stated several times on these boards that the reason some will not prepay the gratuities is so they get better service. They feel if they prepay then the server is not as motivated. I say prepay, and if the service is great, tip extra. You can always give more than what was prepaid.

 

The very rare occasions we eat at a buffet on land we always leave a gratuity in the amount based on the price of a meal.

We always tip the server in the buffet too. But, not at the all inclusive hotels because it was already added in.

[wolfganghowell]

<That's the kind of service we get too. Is it safe to assume he or she is "your" bartender because you tip them over and above the added 15%? It's amazing what an extra few dollars can get you...............>

 

phoenix - yep, we find someone that we click with introduce ourselves, tell them we will be "stalking" them all week and tip a few extra dollars every 3rd round or so. Mr Wolf likes his drinks strong, I don't. This way we don't feel guilty or obnoxious when Mr Wolf hints/asks/begs for more rum! :D And we genuinely enjoy getting to know them so we can hang at "their" bar alone if we are waiting for each other to show up somewhere. We like having them know us by name and start making a drink for us when they see us.

 

Every time I see threads on tipping and people's varying opinions, I am reminded of my thought: Everyone should have to be a waiter at some point in their life so they know what it is like to work for tips and to see how they are treated by others. I tip well based on my time as a waitress. I also can usually distinguish between bad service and bad attitude. Bad service may not always be the fault of the server but a bad attitude is.

 

I see the validity in people feeling that if they don't eat in the DR they shouldn't tip. However, you have had a table reserved for you every night. Your assigned waiter is ready to serve you if you so choose. If you can afford to cruise, why the heck can't you afford the measly $40 per person that is expected of you to tip? Is that amount of money really worth getting bent out of shape over?

 

Carry on............

[Barkeeper]

A simple answer to these tipping problems would be of course to pay all the "wait" staff a decent wage in the first place. Those who gave an over acceptable service would be rewarded a "tip".

If unacceptable service was provided report via end of cruise questionaire. If warranted from level of complaints crew member could be dealt with accordingly. Hopefully retrained but demoted fired if necessary

[Ronrocks!]

<That's the kind of service we get too. Is it safe to assume he or she is "your" bartender because you tip them over and above the added 15%? It's amazing what an extra few dollars can get you...............>

 

phoenix - yep, we find someone that we click with introduce ourselves, tell them we will be "stalking" them all week and tip a few extra dollars every 3rd round or so. Mr Wolf likes his drinks strong, I don't. This way we don't feel guilty or obnoxious when Mr Wolf hints/asks/begs for more rum! :D And we genuinely enjoy getting to know them so we can hang at "their" bar alone if we are waiting for each other to show up somewhere. We like having them know us by name and start making a drink for us when they see us.

 

Every time I see threads on tipping and people's varying opinions, I am reminded of my thought: Everyone should have to be a waiter at some point in their life so they know what it is like to work for tips and to see how they are treated by others. I tip well based on my time as a waitress. I also can usually distinguish between bad service and bad attitude. Bad service may not always be the fault of the server but a bad attitude is.

 

I see the validity in people feeling that if they don't eat in the DR they shouldn't tip. However, you have had a table reserved for you every night. Your assigned waiter is ready to serve you if you so choose. If you can afford to cruise, why the heck can't you afford the measly $40 per person that is expected of you to tip? Is that amount of money really worth getting bent out of shape over?

 

Carry on............

 

Just because one can afford to cruise doesn't mean one wants to pay for a service they did not recieve. If that were the case I would pay my neighbor for cutting his lawn and not mine.:D

[TEXASMUNK]

All the rationalization in the world will not excuse poor behavior.

Stiffing the staff stinks!!!!

[billyelliot]

I agree with barkeeper! pay the staff a decent wage!:mad: I find all this tipping talk amazing. It makes it sound like a 2 system society. If you can afford a big tip you get seen to first! We all have to work for a living, and saying you shouldnt go if you cant afford the tip is strange. You look at the price and pay it, but dont expect to have a hand put out for every thing thats done for you when you think youve paid! I have pre paid my tips, but would have much sooner it have been part of the price.

If someone has been out of their way to do something special then fine, but to expect it as normal, no!

There should be a standed that is required for the job. If you go in a shop you expect to be served politely, and to be helped with your purchase. If not then the jobs not for you!

I am a hairdresser, and if someone can afford to leave a tip thats fine, but you get the same service from me whether you are rich or poor. I get paid a wage, which expects me to give my clients a proper service,its part of the job, not treat someone second class because they cant afford it.:(

[phoenix1181]

phoenix - yep, we find someone that we click with introduce ourselves, tell them we will be "stalking" them all week and tip a few extra dollars every 3rd round or so. Mr Wolf likes his drinks strong, I don't. This way we don't feel guilty or obnoxious when Mr Wolf hints/asks/begs for more rum! :D And we genuinely enjoy getting to know them so we can hang at "their" bar alone if we are waiting for each other to show up somewhere. We like having them know us by name and start making a drink for us when they see us.

 

Every time I see threads on tipping and people's varying opinions, I am reminded of my thought: Everyone should have to be a waiter at some point in their life so they know what it is like to work for tips and to see how they are treated by others. I tip well based on my time as a waitress. I also can usually distinguish between bad service and bad attitude. Bad service may not always be the fault of the server but a bad attitude is.

 

I see the validity in people feeling that if they don't eat in the DR they shouldn't tip. However, you have had a table reserved for you every night. Your assigned waiter is ready to serve you if you so choose. If you can afford to cruise, why the heck can't you afford the measly $40 per person that is expected of you to tip? Is that amount of money really worth getting bent out of shape over?

 

Carry on............

 

We think alike.............. I introduce my husband and I as their new best friend.

Never waitressed, but my mom did for years............. husband & brothers-in-law know they're required to over tip or there will be hell to pay later!

[amybear912]

Tipping is nothing more than a motivational tool used by the service industry to maintain service standards...

 

It is intended to insure that service meets at the very least, a minimum standard... When the service doesn't meet the standard, the tips should reflect this... when the service is above the standard, the tips should reflect this also...

 

The process helps to weed out the bad eggs... Those who can't handle the job, won't receive tips or will receive low amounts... after a time of not making good money in tips, that person is either going to move on to something else or lose their job because their service is sub-standard...

 

Pre-paying tips or tacking on a "service charge", IMO, sets the standard of service at a low bar... Seriously, what's the motivation to deliver top-notch service if you've already gotten the tip and there is no hope for receiving more???

 

Tips should be earned by delivering excellent service and there is no better way to motivate your staff to go above and beyond the call of duty than to make their pay dependent on the service they provide... But it's a gamble... You never know when you'll get some jerk that no matter how hard you work, he's just not going to tip you because he feels the need to make some sort of political statement about the tipping process...

 

Folks, don't take it out on the working class... it will always come back to bite you in the ass... :)

[PhoenixCruiser]

I also wanted to add that we have cruised since the early 80's and as far as I am concerned, cruises were never all inclusive. There were always additional charges, ie liquor, chairs by the pool etc. For anyone who thinks they are paying up front and everything else onboard is included, (ie, liquor, Bingo etc.) is in for a rude awakening. I can't believe anyone would be that naive today, but I am sure there are some people who never do any research and ask any questions.

 

I fully expect to get flamed for my views, but hey, that's how I feel. YMMV.

 

We agree!! Cruising is far from being an all-inclusive.

 

###

[emdia43]

When I think how hard these staff work, just showing up every day deserves a tip from me...

I pay the gratuities every time even though I rarely eat in the dining room.

I use the WJ and tip there too. The DR staff are there with food prepared, ready to serve me, it's just my choice not to go there, so I don't see why they shouldn't be included.

I have yet to encounter any staff member on a cruise who really seemed to be doing less than his best and with a smile too. You can't say that for most commercial enterprises on land.

I would rather over than under tip.

For most of us it's just an extra. To the staff it's their entire salary.

[wolfganghowell]

Billy, I never said you shouldn't cruise if you don't pay the tip. I said why is this small amount worth getting bent out of shape? I don't understand why people get so upset over less than $100 when they have paid several thousand or more for the cruise.

Of course we all work for a living. Believe me, I know! :)

The recommended tip amounts are stated upfront before you ever step onboard - it's not exactly a surprise. I totally get that people have differing opinions on tipping and that's fine. However, saying that RCCL (or any cruise line for that matter) should change their policy because YOU don't agree with it is not solving the problem for the staff.

As for bigger tippers getting better service from staff than other passengers - come on, welcome to the real world. They don't see to me first - they still wait on everyone in the order they were there. The difference is that there is a small, a hello with my name and a drink set before me that much faster. It's not "big tipping" - heck all told for the week it's probably $10 - it's treating them as a person who matters as opposed to a robot who is there to "serve" me.

[TEXASMUNK]

What he said!!!

Even though you are from Dallas, a suburb of Ft Worth, you are a smart person! LOL

[shoreless]

The cruise lines make this way too complicated.:(

 

I'm sure there are some people who pride themselves on getting out of tipping anybody, but it seems like even the people who want to do the right thing (me included :o ) are confused about how to allocate tips between main dining rooms, specialty restaurants, and buffets. And if the cruise-obsessed cruisecritic posters can't figure it out, I assume that the rest of the passengers are even more clueless. If you don't know how the system works, and don't give it a lot of thought, it really doesn't seem rational to tip a perfect stranger in a dining room you've never eaten in, rather than a waiter that has served you most of your meals.

 

I'd prefer that they make the standard tips mandatory, tell you where they go, and state clearly that any further tips are purely voluntary.

[Scorpiorose]

Lynnees - it is an unspoken rule, most ppl know this.

 

Everyone knows that servers are paid less and that they are taxed according to an estimate of their tips - in the us - everyone knows that servers employers assume tips and lower their wages.......it is not a thank you but in todays world most ppl know it's part of their pay.

 

Yes you tip up or down, but unless the server spit in my food I wouldn't stiff someone, you it sounds like would and would feel justified in doing so, very sad.

 

Ron rocks......to say you wont tip someone who didn't earn it is nuts. If you eat in the wj, your server earned it too, they all take a turn there ya know and although they perhaps weren't there the minute you were doesnt mean they didn't earn it. So tip the guy who happens to be standing there, he gets double, his dining room tips and the amount figured in for your wait staff wj time as well, crazy.

 

Get a clue ppl - geezzz, it's not that tough. It's acomin' - due to this idea by Lynness and Ronrock and many others, the service charge will be added and everyone will complain. If enough servers are shorted tips then they wont be able to recruise wait staff. Ah, yes, there are always ppl from poor countries that will work on these cruise ships for pennies - so you can rest assured it will be a while.

 

Listen - a decent person would figure $70-80 bucks for a week long cruise as tips anyway.....and thats a good deal considering what you get. So....why not play by the ships rules and system and tip accordingly.

 

I never American bash since I am one but this is a good example of why other countries do not like americans. It's just the general idea that I'm not going to follow the compensation rule, I will do what I want to do, I will decide who I grace with my money....we're talking $70 bucks - pay up and feel lucky that you have the means to travel and give those what they are due - tips!

[Scorpiorose]

Shoreless - I think rccl made it simple - if everyone tipped according to cruise custom their wait staff they all are compensated, they all take turns in the wj and other places and it all evens out.

 

It is only when ppl decide that, I will do what I want and to whom I want and I wont listen to the cruise ship that is gets messy.

 

All servers take a turn in the wj and the dining room. If everyone tipped (more or less if the service warrants it) they will all do their duty and get tipped.

 

And Lynness - tips are figured into their pay, they are told you can expect approx. more or less this pay in joiining in on our cruise. You are extra great maybe a little more, not so great a little less. With your plan, it would go like this: hummmm, welll so sorry for you, your ppl didn't want to follow the suggested tipping custom, so you are just out. Sucks to be you.

 

Just tip - the system is there for a reason - follow it and be happy. Aren't there more things to worry about, really?

[happicruzer]

I found our trip on the Brilliance to be interesting - it was the only cruise we've taken where a collection box was placed in the WJ to accept tips (both envelopes and cash were in the box). I received a thank you from one individual who saw me place an envelope in the box. I haven't seen the "collection box" on any other cruise ship/line.

 

My daughter is a bartender and our son and daughters were both waiters at some point in their careers/college days. We've learned from them the value of a job well done - for tips - and the job that was well-done and no tip was received and the individual who skipped out on payment of their bill (something I and many others would never even think of doing).

 

In that our last two cruises had individuals who never showed up for their "scheduled" dining time in the dining room, I've never understood the refusal by a cruise line to offer a customer the choice of a WJ-only dining selection. :rolleyes: Currently, I am always asked for early/late dining (RCCL/HAL/Celebrity - never a WJ-ONLY unless I'm cruising using the any-time dining by Princess/Norweigen. This choice would also allow the cruise line to fill the early/late seating with those who wish to have a specific accommodation rather than those that will never use a dining room option. Feel that option is a win-win for everyone; but please, do tip the WJ staff as many do their best for you even if it is a "self-serve" environment.

 

I'll admit when I first started cruising I was always confused by the tipping policy. I like the automated tip, but do feel an additional tip is due where exceptional service is received.

[frito58]

I found our trip on the Brilliance to be interesting - it was the only cruise we've taken where a collection box was placed in the WJ to accept tips (both envelopes and cash were in the box). I received a thank you from one individual who saw me place an envelope in the box. I haven't seen the "collection box" on any other cruise ship/line.

 

My daughter is a bartender and our son and daughters were both waiters at some point in their careers/college days. We've learned from them the value of a job well done - for tips - and the job that was well-done and no tip was received and the individual who skipped out on payment of their bill (something I and many others would never even think of doing).

 

In that our last two cruises had individuals who never showed up for their "scheduled" dining time in the dining room, I've never understood the refusal by a cruise line to offer a customer the choice of a WJ-only dining selection. :rolleyes: Currently, I am always asked for early/late dining (RCCL/HAL/Celebrity - never a WJ-ONLY unless I'm cruising using the any-time dining by Princess/Norweigen. This choice would also allow the cruise line to fill the early/late seating with those who wish to have a specific accommodation rather than those that will never use a dining room option. Feel that option is a win-win for everyone; but please, do tip the WJ staff as many do their best for you even if it is a "self-serve" environment.

 

I'll admit when I first started cruising I was always confused by the tipping policy. I like the automated tip, but do feel an additional tip is due where exceptional service is received.

 

I like that idea of a tip box. On our last cruise on The AOS we ate all of our meals in the WJ. But we ate at different times and usally ate at a different table so we hardly ever saw the same waiter. I just searched out the waiters that were helpful and gave them a tip on the last night. But to me a box would work nicely and would make sure everyone was tipped.

[Lynnees]

Lynnees - it is an unspoken rule, most ppl know this No, it is not a rule of any kind. Perhaps in your mind but it is not a rule written or otherwise.

Everyone knows that servers are paid less and that they are taxed according to an estimate of their tips - in the us - everyone knows that servers employers assume tips and lower their wages.......it is not a thank you but in todays world most ppl know it's part of their payWeather you like it or not, it is a thank you - if you feel you must pay someones wages and guilt yourself into it that's all fine and dandy - just don't try to do it for others. You are also talking apples and oranges. There is no taxes paid by ships staff.

 

Yes you tip up or down, but unless the server spit in my food I wouldn't stiff someone, you it sounds like would and would feel justified in doing so, very sad.COLOR="red"]Do not presume to know anything about me. You have no idea what I would or would not do.[/color]

 

Ron rocks......to say you wont tip someone who didn't earn it is nuts. If you eat in the wj, your server earned it too, they all take a turn there ya know and although they perhaps weren't there the minute you were doesnt mean they didn't earn it. So tip the guy who happens to be standing there, he gets double, his dining room tips and the amount figured in for your wait staff wj time as well, crazy.

 

Get a clue ppl - geezzz, it's not that tough. It's acomin' - due to this idea by Lynness and Ronrock and many others, the service charge will be added and everyone will complain. If enough servers are shorted tips then they wont be able to recruise wait staff. Ah, yes, there are always ppl from poor countries that will work on these cruise ships for pennies - so you can rest assured it will be a while.

 

Listen - a decent person would figure $70-80 bucks for a week long cruise as tips anyway.....and thats a good deal considering what you get. So....why not play by the ships rules and system and tip accordingly.

 

I never American bash since I am one but this is a good example of why other countries do not like americans. It's just the general idea that I'm not going to follow the compensation rule, I will do what I want to do, I will decide who I grace with my money....we're talking $70 bucks - pay up and feel lucky that you have the means to travel and give those what they are due - tips!

 

Shoreless - I think rccl made it simple - if everyone tipped according to cruise custom their wait staff they all are compensated, they all take turns in the wj and other places and it all evens out.

 

It is only when ppl decide that, I will do what I want and to whom I want and I wont listen to the cruise ship that is gets messy.

 

All servers take a turn in the wj and the dining room. If everyone tipped (more or less if the service warrants it) they will all do their duty and get tipped.

 

And Lynness - tips are figured into their pay, they are told you can expect approx. more or less this pay in joiining in on our cruise. You are extra great maybe a little more, not so great a little less. With your plan, it would go like this: hummmm, welll so sorry for you, your ppl didn't want to follow the suggested tipping custom, so you are just out. Sucks to be you. I am not interested in their contract or what they are told. My employer doesn't discuss my compensation package with anyone else, nor do I. I don't expect to have my bills or anything else decided by how much money I make.

Just tip - the system is there for a reason - follow it and be happy. Aren't there more things to worry about, really?Sorry, I value my money and the time I spent earning it to just give it away - I always give a gratuity to those who earn it - but I will never give my money to anyone who hasn't earned it.

 

As I said, you know absolutely nothing about me. The fact is I worked as a waitress from the time I was 13 until I finished school at 19. Over the years I went back to work off and on as a waitress so do not dare to presume anything about me.

 

You have every right to do as you want - just bare in mind - so do I. It's called freedom of choice.

[BobBeaSea]

"Tipping is so confusing these days, and some cruise lines can't or won't clear up the confusion". This is a common theme. It is even more confusing with the multiple choices of where you eat. Some lines pool tips, some perhaps do not pool. I do know the ship is a business and like most businesses, it has a payroll.

 

There is only one simple and effective way to handle this. PREPAY THE TIPS. You have done what is expected of you, it is now up to the ship to sort it out. This ends the confusion. If there are those who have gone above and beyond - give them tips on the go, if you so wish or put something extra in an envelope. Even better, write them up in your end of sailing comment cards.

 

For those who claim prepaying the tips (service charge actually - let's be clear about this) will result in poor service, this is unreasonable. The crew is measured in so many ways (this "measurement" would be intolerable for many of us :)), tip "blackmail" from the passengers is a non event. Like any business the ship has great staff and mediocre staff, whether they get tips or not doesn't weed them out - the ship's management does.

 

The lines should just add the suggested tip amounts to the fare and be done with it. It will eliminate the stiffing and confusion.

[lady_cruiser]

Move over -- more fuel to add to this fire.

We ate dinner in the Windjammer on our last cruise, we brought our open wine bottles in (from DR) and the waiter quickly offered us wine glasses. The wait staff was dressed the same as the staff in the DR; they were quick to assist etc. -- very nice atmosphere. We asked the waiter (and another waiter in the WJ the next evening) if they get a share of the tips from the DR waitstaff. Answer: No. Apparently, every fifth cruise they are required to work in the WJ in the evenings and only get what tips are left for them which we all know are scant.

Somehow this does not seem right........:(

Kathy

 

Thanks for the information. I always tip extra at the end of a cruise, but usually hand it to the staff who waited on us in the dining room. I need to remember to leave something for the staff in the Windjammer.

 

So does this mean that the cooks and those who are craving the meats in the Windjammer does not share in the tips either?

[bnjrsmom]

And to the poster who said all should know the gratuitiy policy of cruising - you are so wrong. My parents do not read Cruise Critic (my mother can't stand the hostility of message boards.....:D it could be a macrame or a yoga board and there will always be passive aggressive arguing ...okay, debating). They have taken 3 cruises - and the only info they get is from our TA (who I admit is awful but they have used her for over 10 years....) and from the cruiseline websites. Yes, they have read the gratuitiy guidelines on both Princess and RCI and I have brought the topic up. But, they absolutely NEVER eat in the dining room - only in other venues. So when they saw that RCI's guidelines included waiters -my mother innocently said she will tip lavishly her room steward but does not see tipping waiters she never saw. All of the arguments here are valid - and honestly - it is a poor job of the cruise industry to not change it to a 'surcharge' because most people who do not read message boards don't get it.

 

And although I may 'debate' here - I am sure out of sheer guilt about the starving children of the servers - I will tip what I am supposed to.

 

My point is that the average cruiser that does not read the message boards is not really getting the message. And as the culture gets more informal - more and more people will choose WJ over the dining for more and more days of their cruise. Eventually the cruiselines will have to change the policy which isn't a bad thing. It is all about flexibility and change.

 

Okay - done - off of MY soapbox now.

 

Lisa

[Nliedel]

We tip the waitstaff in the dining room for all nights, and pray that the others do the same on down the line, so it's fair. We rarely eat in the Windjammer, but we do eat at Chops and sometimes Portofino.

 

We do tip the Chops and Portofino people.

 

As for people not getting the information about what to tip whom, unless they read the boards, it's in every brochure, on the website and is printed in the Compass at least once, and I think more than that. It really is available to people who don't read CC. Not trying to fight, but do want to point that out. Most cruisers never come to these boards and they do tip.

[bnjrsmom]

As for people not getting the information about what to tip whom, unless they read the boards, it's in every brochure, on the website and is printed in the Compass at least once, and I think more than that. It really is available to people who don't read CC. Not trying to fight, but do want to point that out. Most cruisers never come to these boards and they do tip.

 

I agree that they get the information but they read the words "guidelines' and take it as such....in the same way there are guidelines about what to tip the spa staff but if they don't get a spa treatment - no need to tip. And by RCI (and other cruiselines) calling it guidelines and breaking it down to individual employees. Another suggestion is that there guidelines shouldn't break it down by employee (room attendant, dining room staff)..just say that this is the guideline for all of the staff that served over the week ($9.50 per person per day) and that they are welcome to tip extraordinary service as they see fit. It would alleviate some of the confusion or misinterpretation.

 

Lisa