Rant!!

[Barkeeper]

Having considered my original position, pay everyone a decent wage and tip great service, together with all the various "rants" on this thread I have come to a conclusion.

 

Everyone in employment is in a "service" situation, we all have to please others to obtain our income. Let's do away with basic wages and salaries and pay only by results. Police by convictions, teachers by pupils exams passed, soldiers by enemies killed, soccer players by goals scored, politicians by votes received,TV and film personalities by Google hits, Lawyers only on cases won, accountants only on money saved, Financial advisors only paid at the end of the 5 year recommended investment period and only on the actual return and so on and so on. Just doing the job should result in some derisory sum set by the employer who just rakes in a massive profit from their customers regardless.

 

Those in favour please indicate, those who don't please say so and state their occupation!

[Nliedel]

I'm a writer and I am paid like that and it's not always pleasant. Especially when there is a lot of copyright infringement on the Internet. I've given up chasing down the pirate sites with my work on them, because that has become a full time job

 

As for my other job, forget it. I'm a mom and I will never be paid what I'm worth. :)

 

People are paid what they are wroth in society. You want to keep your job? Results. Yes teachers can get tenure and skate, but I see those as exceptions, not the rule. If you have a job, you must produce results. As for paying police by convictions and soldiers by enemies killed, that's opening a can of worms. Our police are there to prevent crime when possible. They catch bad guys because it is not possible to stop all crime, but much of their job is peacekeeping. Just as many soldiers are not responsible for killing enemies, but keeping peace, feeding other soldiers and making the armed services run smoothly.

 

I've been a waitress and a bartender and it was not always fair. I've been given a five dollar tip for a twenty top, and had the customer tell my boss I gave them the best service they ever had. That was a head-scratcher of Titanic proportions. I've also been given a one hundred fifty dollar tip on a one hundred dollar bar tab and believe me, I did not go above and beyond. That was a crazy night.

 

Is tipping the best way? I don't know, but in mandatory tip situations on these boards there are people who chastise others that what the service people earn from the mandatory tips is not enough and that everyone should tip more. There is no panacea for this situation, in my opinion.

[Barkeeper]

 

People are paid what they are wroth in society. You want to keep your job? Results. Yes teachers can get tenure and skate, but I see those as exceptions, not the rule. If you have a job, you must produce results. As for paying police by convictions and soldiers by enemies killed, that's opening a can of worms. Our police are there to prevent crime when possible. They catch bad guys because it is not possible to stop all crime, but much of their job is peacekeeping. Just as many soldiers are not responsible for killing enemies, but keeping peace, feeding other soldiers and making the armed services run smoothly.

 

Exactly, crime should not happen but it does, we don't penalise those who help prevent it, war should not happen but it does, we do not penalise those who help prevent it. Bad service should not happen but it does, we do not pay them if they prevent it but only if they exceed the expectation .

[Nliedel]

Exactly, crime should not happen but it does, we don't penalise those who help prevent it, war should not happen but it does, we do not penalise those who help prevent it. Bad service should not happen but it does, we do not pay them if they prevent it but only if they exceed the expectation .

 

No, I pay them if they meet the expectation, not exceed it. To Insure Prompt Service. I'm not sure how paying someone up front will prevent bad service, in fact it might encourage some to not really care anymore. Although people who enjoy their jobs and are working for personal pride, as well as tips, can usually be ferreted out by attitude.

[3kidsncats]

Wow, hot topic! I have to say, that I don't think any of the posters who indicated that they don't pay a tip to the DR waiter, if they ate elsewhere for the whole cruise are "stiffing the wait staff". They are just following a normal procedure of tipping--tip the waiter who actually provided good service. The problem is, that the way the cruise lines have set it up, some passengers are receiving great service in a "non-tip" venue--and that's where the customer wants to award the tip. It is entirely natural, that one wants to tip the actual server that provided the service---that is the whole point of a tip, after all. A thank you for excellent service.

 

I don't think it is fair to level charges of cheapskate, etc. on those people. It's not fair to expect someone to tip double, because they didn't eat in the DR all week. It sucks that some waiters get nothing when that happens--I think a better system could be worked out-but it doesn't mean the customer is a bad person. It just means the system should be changed. The cruise line changed the dining system in the first place--they should take on the burden of working out a system that appropriately pays their employees regardless of which station they are working at. Based on this thread, the one they've come up with is not working terribly well.

 

I've always felt it was horrible that waiters don't receive a decent base salary---if you work for a restaurant/cruise line, you should be paid by your employer. Tips should be just that, a voluntary tip for great service. Nowadays tips are actually a service charge---and that's the problem in this discussion. Half the people see it as a service charge that is the server's wage, and the other half see it as a tip. Both sides are actually correct. It is both, not one or the other.

 

I am going on my first cruise in 8 years this April for my 15th wedding anniversary (Yippee!!!!!) and I will pre-pay the tip according to the guideline--my service charge that I see as part of my cruise price. I will then pay a tip, to any server along the way who provides exceptional service. Which I imagine will be most all of them--it's always been my experience to receive outstanding service while on a cruise. I expect we'll eat most of our meals in the dining room--we don't get to eat out much, and really like the more formal atmosphere---but even if we do eat at one of the other venues, we would still give our DR waiters the full guideline amount. But I can't fault anyone who feels differently--because ultimately, unless the cruise line makes it an official fee, it is still a tip.

[fred111]

This is the first time that I have replied to a topic like this. I have always tipped "fairly" but the system hit home when my daughter worked as a waitress while in college. I never realized how hard waiters and waitresses worked until then. It really opened up my eyes. Luckily, tipping on board a Royal Caribbean ship has never been an issue. We have always received absolutely outstanding service from all dining room and stateroom personnel. It has been friendly and professional and we rewarded these outstanding people accordingly. We have always left the recommended tip +++ and even added to the Windjammer box (can't remember what ship that was on).

[funfamilyfun]

I'm sure some people won't like my thoughts...I'm not sure how to explain it, but think of it this way.

 

At any job, you know the salary and you decide to take the job or not. You know the hours/demands/pay, you choose to take the good with the bad and you know the risks.

 

For example, I'm a teacher, I know my pay, I know I won't make more money for working harder, working at home, staying later, coming early, etc. If I worked an hourly job with overtime, I'd get a different pay...but I choose to teach and I choose all that goes along with it.

 

The restaurant servers on land know they are not paid min. wage. They know they are taxed on a certain assumed amount of tips. The know they have the potential to make good money and the potential to work hard and get stiffed...but they choose the job.

 

The cruise workers are the same. They know the expectations/limitations, etc. of their job. If I do't eat in the dining room all week, I am not going to tip the dining staff. If I ate in the WJ I would tip my server nightly. If my cabin steward was horrible, I would tip below the recommended amount.

 

I hope this makes sense. Please note, we do eat in the dining room and we do tip generously. On our last cruise our dining staff and our cabin steward were not up to standard. Although we tipped generously, it was a bit under the recommended amount, not a lot under, but enough so that they realized the poor service was noted.

[mochuck]

Well funfamilyfun, you've certainly managed to push a few of my buttons. Your arguments would ring true if everyone was starting from the same starting block. You assume that people 'choose' to be waiters etc. Come on, really do you think kids grow up wanting to be be a waiter?

 

I don't want to denigrate what waiters do, but it doesn't seem like a career choice for most people.

 

People's choice are limited by their education, which again is limited by their parent's ability to pay for that education

[Nliedel]

Some people do elect to be a professional server and are wonderful at it. I have a well educated friend who lives to ski and has found the best way to support his addiction is to work as a waiter for an upscale restaurant in a Colorado ski town. He makes a wonderful living, but he would not make enough to support himself if he did not carefully choose the restaurant. I am confident a cruise ship would not meet his needs, because he makes double my husband's salary (which I will not post).

 

Most people who work as wait staff are not in it for the long haul and would never choose that profession. Like mochuck said, you don't grow up dreaming of being a waiter, but some people do choose it, in a high end area. Which is not your average cruise ship. Cause there is nothing so wonderful as leaving your family, including children, for months at a time to live in a tiny berth and wait on the ungrateful. For many of these people, this is the only way to a salary that will allow comfort for their families.

[TEXASMUNK]

We have met some really great folks over the years on ships. One couple worked HAL. One as a waiter the other as a bartender. They have raised 4 kids, all going to college in the Phillipines.

By choosing to work on ships, they have elevated their family's future by leaps and bounds!

Obviously, they were and are good at their jobs. And yes, we talked about stiffing the staff. They also talked about the fact that people line up at the booking agent's office when cruise lines are looking for staff. AND there is a pecking order as to which cruise lines they would like to work for!

They know which lines have the higher percentages of passengers that under tip of stiff the staff. Sadly, by their experience, the lower the price of the cruise, the lower the tips.

 

All the "explanations" in the world hold no water, stiff the staff stinks!

[pcur]

Every time I see threads on tipping and people's varying opinions, I am reminded of my thought: Everyone should have to be a waiter at some point in their life so they know what it is like to work for tips and to see how they are treated by others.

 

I so agree! DH was a confirmed non/cheap tipper. I argued for THIRTY YEARS with this man, finally getting him to loosen up after about 5 years. But, he was a cheapie.

 

Then, our youngest son worked as a busboy. He whipped Dad into shape pronto! Son told him to double the tax, knowing that would be approximately 15%. I'd prefer 20%, but at least the man is doing better.

 

I wish they had an Under-Tippers Anonymous program to teach some of the "misguided" folks about it.

 

We usually tip on our SeaPass account. Therefore, we don't tip in the 'Jammer: we overtip in the DR. We eat every dinner in the DR, and every breakfast/lunch in the 'Jammer. Since we have tables for two, if we end up at a table for four with no companions, then we give the waitstaff extra tips to make up for their lost wages. It's our fault no one will be moved to our table, so we pay extra for the priveledge if we take up the space for four.

 

In December I won about $60 in the casino and put it in the tip envelope, too.

[Lady Chew]

Wow, hot topic! I have to say, that I don't think any of the posters who indicated that they don't pay a tip to the DR waiter, if they ate elsewhere for the whole cruise are "stiffing the wait staff". They are just following a normal procedure of tipping--tip the waiter who actually provided good service. The problem is, that the way the cruise lines have set it up, some passengers are receiving great service in a "non-tip" venue--and that's where the customer wants to award the tip. It is entirely natural, that one wants to tip the actual server that provided the service---that is the whole point of a tip, after all. A thank you for excellent service.

 

I've always felt it was horrible that waiters don't receive a decent base salary---if you work for a restaurant/cruise line, you should be paid by your employer. Tips should be just that, a voluntary tip for great service. Nowadays tips are actually a service charge---and that's the problem in this discussion. Half the people see it as a service charge that is the server's wage, and the other half see it as a tip. Both sides are actually correct. It is both, not one or the other.

 

I am going on my first cruise in 8 years this April for my 15th wedding anniversary (Yippee!!!!!) and I will pre-pay the tip according to the guideline--my service charge that I see as part of my cruise price. I will then pay a tip, to any server along the way who provides exceptional service. Which I imagine will be most all of them--it's always been my experience to receive outstanding service while on a cruise. I expect we'll eat most of our meals in the dining room--we don't get to eat out much, and really like the more formal atmosphere---but even if we do eat at one of the other venues, we would still give our DR waiters the full guideline amount. quote]

 

I agree with this ... we look at the pre-paid gratuities as a service charge. We don't tip in the WJ, because we don't want to carry extra cash around. We've seen our asst waiters/waiters/headwaiters working in the WJ, or breakfast/lunch in the DR, and hope/assume that the vouchers & extra cash we give in the DR for suppers, cover them no matter where/when they work that week.

 

Maybe they could add a category to the pre-paid ones, "Windjammer staff", $ X.00 per person per day and they'd provide an envelope & voucher, and you could add (or not) for service, just as you do for the DR waiters ... ??

 

But - it's time for the cruiselines to let us know how tips are handed out!!

 

I'm way too clumsy to ever have been a waitress, but after watching some of those folks on board walk around those really crowded tableswith loaded, stacked trays, sometimes when there is motion on the ocean ... that alone is worth tipping!! :D