Carnival & RCC rebating fuel surcharges

[LADYBUG34113]

Firefly, I think you are correct. I found my May 2007 cruise documents and all it states is:

 

Carnival reserves the right to increase published fares without prior notice. However, it states that the consumer has the option of accepting the increase or cancelling WITHOUT penalty. In this old document, it says nothing about government fees for fuel surcharges.

[VentureMan_2000]

I found my May 2007 cruise documents.

 

...In this old document, it says nothing about government fees for fuel surcharges.

 

 

 

Look at section 1©. In my September 2005 docs, it says,

 

"Cruise Fare does not include Govenment taxes and fees imposed or sanctioned by the U.S. Government or other Governments. These charges are in addition to the Cruise Fare and include but are not limited to, Passenger Facility Charges, Security Surcharges, Fuel Surcharges, International..."

[LADYBUG34113]

Look at section 1©. In my September 2005 docs, it says,

 

"Cruise Fare does not include Govenment taxes and fees imposed or sanctioned by the U.S. Government or other Governments. These charges are in addition to the Cruise Fare and include but are not limited to, Passenger Facility Charges, Security Surcharges, Fuel Surcharges, International..."

 

All that is stating is that they are not included in the fare. If you notice, they are always listed seperately.

[VentureMan_2000]

The whole world has been charging fuel and energy surcharges for a long while now... Hotels have been doing it for years (i.e., energy surcharge)... Shipping companies such as UPS and DHL charge extra for fuel too.

 

It's not a new concept and should not be a surprize to anyone.

 

My guess is that the extra $5 pp, per day does not even come close to covering what the fuel surcharge should be.

 

I think the topic is interesting. :)

[tripletvan]

It figures! I made my ressies on Nov. 26!! No money back for me :mad: :( :confused:

[Kurbanfan]

Why not? What is wrong with Celebrity?

 

Nothing wrong with Celebrity. But they don't offer the right itinerary for us in the months we are able to cruise.

[Jenzkind]

FYI, the story has been updated/corrected. Only Royal Caribbean is offering the refund. Carnival is not. See the last line of this story (and any other news story you google now doesn't mention Carnival as offering the refund):http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/03/10/cruise_passengers_to_get_fuel_refund/

[foneguy]

i see no refund so this is just ...............

yes beating a dead horse:eek:

[jaxon41]

I don't know when this was printed...It could be the difference between Carnival and the other lines.

 

This is one paragraph:

(d) Cruise Fare does not include fuel supplement charges. “Fuel supplement” shall mean any additional charge to defray a portion of Carnival’s fuel costs. Carnival reserves the right to charge a fuel supplement charge without prior notice. The amount of fuel supplements and government fees and taxes are subject to change and Carnival reserves the right to pass through to the Guests (including fully paid and deposited guests) any increases in such items.

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/ticket_contract.aspx

 

again not wishing to argue, but am curious. The post from the cc'r who posted the contract before implementation of the surcharge, contained none of this language. It would have smacked me in the face if had been there, so I am thinking that this was the new language, and the reason that those of us with RCL were saying that we liked that Carnival had limited their new language to fuel charges, while RCL's new language allowed a surcharge for anything, like orange juice and pods breaking down.

 

I think if the fuel charge stuff was in the brochures, that could be a sticking point with the negotiations, but it still would violate

the 1997 agreement, and the FL AG seemed to stress that.

[VentureMan_2000]

I think if the fuel charge stuff was in the brochures, that could be a sticking point with the negotiations,

 

 

but it still would violate the 1997 agreement,

 

 

I was going to agree with you until you mentioned the 1997 agreement.

 

My guess is that you, or myself, or anyone else does not know what that agreement means from a Legal standpoint. But I suppose it is nice to mention it in an attempt to bulster one's opinion... like any of us really knows what it means...

[jaxon41]

I was going to agree with you until you mentioned the 1997 agreement.

 

My guess is that you, or myself, or anyone else does not know what that agreement means from a Legal standpoint. But I suppose it is nice to mention it in an attempt to bulster one's opinion... like any of us really knows what it means...

 

Snorkel FOIA'd that, but he didn't get back, if they ever turned it over. I found some of the language on the net back a couple of months ago. I wish I had downloaded it for further study as my recollection was that if one line violated it, the rest weren't held to it. Come to think of it, that could go to the restraint of trade case, too.

 

Sorry about my previous post as I kept scrolling, I saw that it was determined that the necessary language was not in the old contract.

 

I have to think that the 1997 agreement was in the nature of a consent decree, ratified by the court and having the same legal import as a consent decree since it was an adjunct of a class action suit. Violating it would carry the same repercussions as violating any court order, and the court is free to choose the poison.

[jason534]

VentureMan,

 

What do you make of the fact that until Feb. of 2008 Carnival added the fuel supplement to the "federal taxes/fees" line of the invoice and then added a line for "fuel supplement"?

 

That's five months of not disclosing the fuel supplement in our case.

[VentureMan_2000]

VentureMan,

 

What do you make of the fact that until Feb. of 2008 Carnival added the fuel supplement to the "federal taxes/fees" line of the invoice and then added a line for "fuel supplement"?

 

 

 

What Fact...? There is no fact!

 

You have no proof of that Carnival added the fuel supplement to the "federal taxes/fees" line of the invoice. I suggest you are a liar.

 

Show me proof.

[TwinMom7]

What Fact...? There is no fact!

 

You have no proof of that Carnival added the fuel supplement to the "federal taxes/fees" line of the invoice. I suggest you are a liar.

 

Show me proof.

 

My goodness!!! Someone is having some "issues" this morning! Give the man a chance to prove his point before you start calling him a liar.

 

And as for your comments to my post, IF I had received a contract from Carnival when I booked stating that fuel surcharges could be added at any time, I would not have a problem. That is not the case. I booked and paid in full nine months prior to November. In November I received an email telling me that this had been added. I couldn't print my documents OR a contract from Carnival until I had paid this fee. So please tell me WHERE in a phone conversation with a Carnival PVP LAST January, I was notified in any way, shape or form that they could legally add this fee.

[firefly333]

If you followed the original threads about the fuel surcharge, it was printed out, the before and after. Why are you making such a deal and saying folks are making this up. No one has to prove anything to you. They already submitted the before and after papers to the FL AG. Now its in their hands.

[RonnieandCindy]

Carnival did you give the big boys a hefty raise on our fuel supplement charges? It wouldnt surprise me since they are balking on giving it back like rccl did. If they dont this will be my last carnival ride in April i am going back to rccl.

[cathyoo]

 

I suggest you are a liar.

 

.

WOW.. a liar..they are some harsh words..

[firefly333]

I was going to agree with you until you mentioned the 1997 agreement.

 

My guess is that you, or myself, or anyone else does not know what that agreement means from a Legal standpoint. But I suppose it is nice to mention it in an attempt to bulster one's opinion... like any of us really knows what it means...

 

I also read the thread on RCL which went on for much longer. Even the Carnival folks joined in. Quite a few lawyers did make comments on the issue. I would say lawyers could understand the 1997 agreement, that said something to the effect the only charges that could be added on later to our bookings were government fees. The fuel surcharge isnt a govt fee, which is why I believe they cannot add it on after booking. Jaxon was one who followed the thread on RCL and participated in it.

 

Just out of curiosity Venture_Man why do you think Carnival is still in talks with the FL Ag over this if they were correct and could just tack on this surcharge? Obviously the FL AG doesnt agree with you. But then the FL AG is just a bunch of folks who you claim dont understand the 1997 case.

 

Truly, it is beginning to sound to me like you are upset that some of us might not have to pay this fuel surcharge on some of our booked cruises. Sour grapes as they say. Good morning, yawn. I thought this thread had died.

[QuasiTova]

Nothing wrong with Celebrity. But they don't offer the right itinerary for us in the months we are able to cruise.

 

Oh ok... I have just booked my first cruise... and it is with Celebrity, so I was curious about why someone would not want to book with them.

[jason534]

Venture,

 

Why would I try to fool you? Are you making the decision for Carnival or the Florida AG?

 

What proof would you like? How about the invoice from 9/21/07 where "federal taxes/fees" are $89.04. Then the invoice from 1/3/08 where "federal taxes/fees" are $139.04. And the invoice from 2/25/08 where "federal taxes/fees" are back to $89.04 and for the first time on any invoice a "fuel supplement" of $50 appears.

 

I shouldn't waste my time on someone like you, but I will humor myself. Let me know how you would like to me share my "proof" with you.

 

No I am not a liar and please understand that you are not important enough to make me stoop that low.

 

Please step up and share with the thread what your real intentions/motives are.

[TwinMom7]

Venture,

 

Why would I try to fool you? Are you making the decision for Carnival or the Florida AG?

 

What proof would you like? How about the invoice from 9/21/07 where "federal taxes/fees" are $89.04. Then the invoice from 1/3/08 where "federal taxes/fees" are $139.04. And the invoice from 2/25/08 where "federal taxes/fees" are back to $89.04 and for the first time on any invoice a "fuel supplement" of $50 appears.

 

I shouldn't waste my time on someone like you, but I will humor myself. Let me know how you would like to me share my "proof" with you.

 

No I am not a liar and please understand that you are not important enough to make me stoop that low.

 

Please step up and share with the thread what your real intentions/motives are.

 

BRAVO my fellow Hoosier - BRAVO!!!!

[Kurbanfan]

It also remains the fact that it was not fully disclosed. Being in the brochures means nothing. A brochure is not a binding contract. And the fact you don't get your cruise docs/contract with the wording until after final payment is where the issue remains.

[TwinMom7]

It also remains the fact that it was not fully disclosed. Being in the brochures means nothing. A brochure is not a binding contract. And the fact you don't get your cruise docs/contract with the wording until after final payment is where the issue remains.

 

I was paid in full for nine months before they added the surcharge - but I couldn't print my documents or my contract until I sent the additional $70. They were holding my $1800 worth of tickets "hostage" until they got another $70 from me.

 

They knew they had me. They knew I wouldn't cancel over $70. They knew I already had non-refundable airfare booked. They took advantage of those customers who were already booked and had been for months.

 

Again, as I've stated before - if I booked a new cruise tomorrow and was charged the fuel surcharge - I would have no problem because I was made aware of it at the time of booking.

[Kurbanfan]

I was paid in full for nine months before they added the surcharge - but I couldn't print my documents or my contract until I sent the additional $70. They were holding my $1800 worth of tickets "hostage" until they got another $70 from me.

 

They knew they had me. They knew I wouldn't cancel over $70. They knew I already had non-refundable airfare booked. They took advantage of those customers who were already booked and had been for months.

 

Again, as I've stated before - if I booked a new cruise tomorrow and was charged the fuel surcharge - I would have no problem because I was made aware of it at the time of booking.

 

Oh I whole heartily agree! This is what I have been saying all along.

[habby]

This is from the Carnival website today, home page, under FAQs, Cruise Ticket Contract Terms - available to anyone before, or after they book a cruise. I do not know the date that this was last revised.

 

© Cruise Fare does not include Government taxes and fees imposed or sanctioned by the U.S. Government or other Governments. “Government fees and taxes” may include any and all fees, charges, surcharges, tolls and taxes imposed by U.S. and/or foreign governmental or quasi-governmental authorities including, but not limited to, U.S. Customs fees, Guest Facility Charges, Security Surcharges, International Passenger Departure or Arrival Tax, Agricultural Inspection Fee, head taxes, Panama Canal tolls, dockage fees, wharfage fees, inspection fees, taxes on airline transportation, hotel or VAT taxes incurred as part of a land tour, immigration and naturalizations fees, and Internal Revenue Service fees, whether assessed on a per Guest, per berth, per ton or per vessel basis. In the case of per ton or per vessel assessments, those assessments will be spread over expected Guest counts.

(d) Cruise Fare does not include fuel supplement charges. “Fuel supplement” shall mean any additional charge to defray a portion of Carnival’s fuel costs. Carnival reserves the right to charge a fuel supplement charge without prior notice. The amount of fuel supplements and government fees and taxes are subject to change and Carnival reserves the right to pass through to the Guests (including fully paid and deposited guests) any increases in such items.

 

 

Unfortunately I do not have this particular part of the contract from the website prior to the implementation of fuel charges. Paragraph (d) was not part of the contract for our cruise in April 2007 which was included in the packet received from Carnival.

 

Whether or not Carnival handled this legally is for the FL AG to decide. If it is decided that we are to be reimbursed the fuel supplement, that's OK with me. If not (for us), at this time the $70 is not going to make or break our cruise.