Coastal Renaissance.

[Putterdude]

Thought that I would hi-jack this tread to wish all of the regulars a Happy New Year and acknowldge Ut's earlier greeting on another thread.

We haven't had any snow down in this part of AZ put it is runing 10* to 15* (f) cooler then it should be at this time of year. I know "cry me a river".:) We had a wonderful Christmas with our DS, DDIL and lovely 20 month old DGD. However we have had to rush to take down the decorations as we leave for FLL and our Panama Cruise on Sunday.

Interestingly we have found it cheaper and more time effective to rent a car here, drop it in Las Vegas (about a 2 hrs drive) rather then park our own car in LV for 16 days. We will rent a car in San Pedro and then drive back here at the end of the cruise, we are about a 4.5 hr drive from there. This will save us the hastle of shutteling to LAX, dealng with baggage, waiting at LAX, flying to LAS, dealing with baggage again, picking up our car and driving the 2 hours back to here.

[Urban trekker]

PD - have a great cruise - "talk" to you when you get back - do you intend to post at all from the ship.

 

Light snow here this morning but the warmer rains and temps should arrive tomorrow and finally clear off the sidewalks and roads.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Putterdude]

Thanks for the good wishes, no I will not post, DW would shoot me if I took along my computer.:rolleyes:

[scottbee]

We'd got a bit off topic here of late, I thought I'd post this to get us back on track with an update on the Coastal Renaissance.

 

 

BC Ferries' fuel records show how much new vessels guzzle

By Andrew MacLeod November 25, 2008 11:10 am 26 comments

http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Transportation/2008/11/25/GuzzleFerry/

 

 

The new Super C-class vessels were supposed to save B.C. Ferries fuel, but internal company documents show they burn much more of the expensive stuff than do older vessels of a similar size.

 

To make proper comparisons between vessels, recent media reports quoted president and CEO David Hahn saying, one would have to look at a ship's performance over a full day of service. The Tyee requested that information from a company spokesperson, but got no response.

 

We did, however, get an internal B.C. Ferries fuel consumption chart through a different source. It shows why the new German-built vessels will be strategically kept at the dock if the company is serious about saving fuel.

 

The chart for June 2008 shows the Coastal Renaissance was used on the route between Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay. To make the round trip, which it did 94 times, on average it used 8,416 litres of fuel.

 

The other ships used on that route each used significantly less fuel: Queen of Coquitlam (6,891 litres), the Queen of Cowichan (7,050 litres) and the Queen of Oak Bay (6,491 litres).

 

While the Coastal Renaissance carries 370 vehicles and 1,600 people, each of the Queens carries 362 vehicles and 1,500 people.

 

The Coastal Inpiration, with the same capacity as the Renaissance, made 60 round trips between Tsawwassen and Duke Point. On average it burned 9,719 litres of fuel.

 

Used on the same route, the Queen of Cowichan (362 vehicles, 1,500 passengers) burned 6,378 litres of fuel per round trip. The smaller Queen of Alberni (295 vehicles, 1,200 passengers) used 7,153 litres of fuel.

 

The third Super C-class vessel, the Coastal Celebration, was put into service November 21 for a few runs between Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen. It has since been out of service.

 

B.C. Ferries spent $542 million to buy the three Super C-class ships from the German shipyard Flensburger Schiffbau Gesellschaft. The Tyee reported a week ago the ships have major problems including high fuel consumption, noise and vibrations that have kept the ferry company from putting them into full service.

Now I admit this is from the Tyee, somewhat of a left-wing slant, but I'm sure that info from the ferry corp will clear that up. Oh wait, they made BC Ferries a private company 100% owned by the province to get around having to answer freedom of information requests...

 

More seriously, even if they burn the same amount of fuel, that's pretty sad considering there's a 30 year advantage in technology. Imagine what the same shipyards that build the old fuel-efficient ferries could do now.

[Urban trekker]

Let's see what the new Island Sky built in BC - which has finally gone into service on the Sunshine Coast looks like in a year - see how many problems it might have - after all it did flunk it's first sea trials and had to be towed -I am sure that Tyee will be reporting every problem with it - the vibration problem is a problem because of complaints from residents living near Departure Bay - having travel on both the fast cats and the new ferries I will take the new ferries any day.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Ferryman]

I think everyone has it all wrong when comparing the Super C's w ith the rest of the fleet.

 

Let's lay out the figures.

 

Consumption on a one way trip in Litres (L), Net Tonnage {t}, and Length [m]

 

C-Class : 2500-2600L(30% Less) {4,473t Oak Bay)} [126.79 m]

V-Class : 2500L (30% Less) {3,903 t (Vancouver)} [120.23 m]

Super C-Class: 3200-3500L {7,492 t (Renaissance)} [154.00 m]

Spirits: 4200L (17% More) {13,894 t (SOBC)} [ 167.57 m ]

 

The biggest thing that sticks out in my mind is whether or not the rest of the vessels Generators run off of the ships supply of fuel, or do they have their own seperate fuel tank. So potentially, those figures could be bias if they do not factor in the extra little bit required to power the generators. Why? The Super C's four MAK engines not only generate power for turning the props, but they also generate the ships electricity.

 

Another item to throw in is the capacity the Super C's have. These ships are perfect for Overheight loads, because there's no platform or gallery decks to stash smaller cars into like you see on most of the other ships. The Super C's carry 370 cars between the two car decks, compared to up to 360 between the 2 and a half car decks (gallery decks is the extra half deck). The Super C's have the infrastructure to one day suspend platform decks from the ceiling of the lower car deck. That's when when you walk up the Stairs from the lower car deck to the upper car deck, the deck levels go from level 2 (main car deck) straight to level 4 (upper car deck).

 

I've done about a half dozen trips on all 3 super C's since the beggining of the month, and I really enjoy riding on these ships regardless of the fuel burn. Especially the Coastal Celebration on the Tsawwassen to Swartz Bay route. The passenger comfort is excellent, and much better than what they had on the Pacificats *spits*. Heck these bigger boats can even do the routes faster than the old ones. The Coastal Inspiration can do the Tsawwassen to Duke Point Route in a little over an hour and a half, as opposed to 2 hours on the old boat. The Coastal Celebration can even do the Tswwassen to Swartz Bay route in about an hour and twenty minutes, opposed to an hour and 35 minutes on the older boats.

 

Cheers.

[Urban trekker]

Remember that the source of ScottBee info was from the online site Tyee which along with Public Eye on Line and the Georgia Straight - especially its editor Charlie Smith are not friends of the current government and nit pick every little thing they can find wrong with what the current government is doing.

 

I too have enjoyed my trips on the new boats - in fact if I can plan my trip taking one of them I do + I don't think it is uncommon for something new to have teething problems - don't we often find that our new cars sometimes need some minor adjustments - I am getting better gas mileage on my car now that the engine is well broken in than when it was new.

 

I also wonder if the new ships aren't required to have a lot more environmental gadgets on them and that this might use more fuel.

 

Given that the new Island Sky is almost a year late in entering service and it was a much smaller project one can only wonder how long it would have taken to built the three new ships locally.

 

That's all from the political pulpit today.

 

Wonder how PD is enjoying his Panama cruise

 

Have a good weekend everyone

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Putterdude]

I got an email alert today from BCF that the Queen of Chilliwack was having some problems today on the Earls Cove/Saltery Bay route which I kind of guess begs the question....anybody know anythng about our locally built "Island Sky", where she is and when she will enter service. Her arrival dates have been kind of a "movable feast".:(

[scottbee]

I got an email alert today from BCF that the Queen of Chilliwack was having some problems today on the Earls Cove/Saltery Bay route which I kind of guess begs the question....anybody know anythng about our locally built "Island Sky", where she is and when she will enter service. Her arrival dates have been kind of a "movable feast".:(

 

Yes, the foreign built ships like the QoChilliwack have always been an issue in the BCF fleet in terms of dispatch reliability.

[Putterdude]

Yes, the foreign built ships like the QoChilliwack have always been an issue in the BCF fleet in terms of dispatch reliability.

 

Well I was refering to the referring to the Island Sky which was locally built but do to various problems still has entered service and I have run out fingers counting how many months she is late entering service. Right now the Queen of Burnaby has a shaft hub leak and is putting oil into water at a great rate but they have nothing to replace her with....they were going to replace her with the Chilliwack but the Island Sky is still not ready to enter service so that was out, the Queen of Vancouver would be the next choice but she has a hole in her hull and is in dry dock. So the Burnaby is operating on a temporary MOE permit. It is the Queen of Oak Bay that had all of the trouble in Horshoe Bay a few years back and wasn't very dependable this past fall.....the Queen of Surrrey has has been known to miss runs on the Sunshine Coast route. Should we spend any time talking about the Fast Cats. All of the aforementioned were locally built.

[Ferryman]

The Island Sky inching closer and closer to entering service. She has been sitting in Saltery Bay since just before Christmas until a couple of weeks ago. She was then moved down to Vancouver Shipyards again to have more warranty work done - I believe there was issues with the anchor system. Before she came back to Saltery Bay just this last Tuesday, they parked her in Horseshoe Bay for the weekend. I was fortunate enough to see her up close for the first time this Sunday while I pulled in on the Queen of Oak Bay. On Monday, they took her for a ride around the Southern Gulf Islands, to test her out at all of the Gulf Island docks, such as Galiano, Mayne, Saltspring, and Pender. Then she was parked for the night in Swartz Bay for the night due to some sort of hydraulic issue after. The next day though on Tuesday, they took her up to Saltery Bay again at a Speed of 16.5 knots. BC Ferries is holding a public open house for her on Feb 13th, and she should be in service by the end of the month.

 

I've been trying to figure out the ship shuffle now that the Tsawwassen is gone. I had figured the Burnaby was having some sort of issues, and was needing some drydock time. The Queen of Chilliwack would probably be the most likely replacement, but they have to dredge the dock at Little River, because her RAD's stick out too deep. But when the Queen of Nanaimo is pulled from service, I've heard they would end up going to the extent of bringing the Queen of Burnaby down to the Southern Gulf Islands, and putting the Chilliwack on the Comox route.

 

Not too sure about the Queen of Vancouver hull problems. She was based as the #2 vessel out of Swartz Bay this past month, while the Spirit of Vancouver Island was taken out for refit. There was a pretty big car fire on the Vancouvers upper car deck a couple of weeks ago. Some friends of mine were aboard when it happened, and they evacuated the ship for two and a half hours. Otherwise, she's now back at Tsawwassen, and will be running in place of the Spirit of British Columbia so she can go for refit. The Queen of New Westminster should take over for the Vancouver on Feb 16th, to allow for her to be retired.

[Putterdude]

Nice to hear from you Ferryman and get your perspective on things. I only get my information second or third hand....but I am told that they thought of using the Queen of 'wack for the a replacement for the Burnaby while she is up on the ways but the issue you raised plus the fact that funny ramp on her makes her not a great vessel for the weather that we get in the strait in the late winter and early spring. Some believe that the Island Sky may not be ever deployed on the Earls Cove run and they will stay with the 'wack or at least one of them will be deployed on a minor route in the Gulf Islands. After the fact modifications have been made to the Island Sky to accomodated overhead walkways which kind of adds some creditability to that speculation.

I guess Fleet House has a grand plan and it will soon be made apparent to us.

[Urban trekker]

Greetings from New Orleans - good to see the discussion about the quality workmanship of our made in BC ferries - I guess as long as the Island Sky isn't in service it sorta takes the sting out of the critics of our foreign built ships during the upcoming provincial election campaign - wonder if ScottBee will be providing us with gas mileage comparsion between the Island Sky and the Queen of Chilliwack.

 

On a slightly more positive note - the third Seabus is scheduled to enter service later this year - it just got it'd name announced -The Pacific Breeze.

 

Bourbon Street is quite something - if you think our Granville St entertainment district is naughty and noisy it pales in comparison to NOLA

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Putterdude]

That's it stir the pot...I can't stand peace.:)

Have a great cruise...weather here is good 80ish for the past few days but looks like we are heading into few cool days ---just in time for 2 sets of guests to arrive.:(

[scottbee]

Well I was refering to the referring to the Island Sky which was locally built but do to various problems still has entered service and I have run out fingers counting how many months she is late entering service. Right now the Queen of Burnaby has a shaft hub leak and is putting oil into water at a great rate but they have nothing to replace her with....they were going to replace her with the Chilliwack but the Island Sky is still not ready to enter service so that was out, the Queen of Vancouver would be the next choice but she has a hole in her hull and is in dry dock. So the Burnaby is operating on a temporary MOE permit. It is the Queen of Oak Bay that had all of the trouble in Horshoe Bay a few years back and wasn't very dependable this past fall.....the Queen of Surrrey has has been known to miss runs on the Sunshine Coast route. Should we spend any time talking about the Fast Cats. All of the aforementioned were locally built.

 

I was merely trying to point out that a lot of the vessels have had issues; and historically, they've had more issues with the imports than the domestics.

[bcscot]

Well, hello to one & all! It is ages since I have travelled this way & I am delighted to see that this thread is still going strong. The BC Ferries are still inspiring great interest it seems.

 

I have had an interesting year on the ferries (since I last posted, last Spring!) including both the BC Ferries & the Atlantic 'ferries'!

 

I had my first trip on the Coastal Inspiration last week & as we were leaving Tsawwassen, I was given a nice glimpse of the past. The only ships to be seen at the Tsawwassen Terminal were the Queens of Vancouver, Tsawwassen & New Westminister. I was most surprised as I thought that the former two had already left the fleet. I am a bit out of touch with what is happening!

 

Graham.

[Putterdude]

Well, hello to one & all! It is ages since I have travelled this way & I am delighted to see that this thread is still going strong. The BC Ferries are still inspiring great interest it seems.

 

I have had an interesting year on the ferries (since I last posted, last Spring!) including both the BC Ferries & the Atlantic 'ferries'!

 

I had my first trip on the Coastal Inspiration last week & as we were leaving Tsawwassen, I was given a nice glimpse of the past. The only ships to be seen at the Tsawwassen Terminal were the Queens of Vancouver, Tsawwassen & New Westminister. I was most surprised as I thought that the former two had already left the fleet. I am a bit out of touch with what is happening!

 

Graham.

 

Well wecome back. The Tsawwassen is effectively out of the fleet and is awaiting a sale if not already sold. The Vancouver had to be pressed back into service recently but now evidently has a hull problem. The Westminster has just had a ton of $ spent on her to give a mid-life update and no one really knows what her ultimate deployment is.

[bcscot]

Thanks PD. I was surprised to hear that you were sweltering in the 80s on the Sunshine Coast! I did not think that it was that tropical over there. I had forgotten about your migratory tendencies! :D

 

Graham.

[Urban trekker]

Well finished up a very hectic day here in the Big Easy by taking in one of the pre-Mardi Gras parades - one gent told me that this one is usually the most raunchy of the bunch because the others have become too main stream with families etc so morality issues are starting to arise. Hugh crowds lining the street and just about everyone including me had a beer or drink in there hand - I now have quite a collection of decorative beads that rained down on the parade route from the balconies. The Pride parade in Vancouver is a lot more sinful than this one was.

 

Another gent passing on the street ask me if I liked Coors Light and handed me a bottle of it - had to keep it a little out of sight as glass bottles are illegal on the streets. The price for a large 20 oz glass of suds was $3.00 - if I wasn't so tired after walking all around town I would be tempted to head back out for a night cap - One thing I didn't realize is that St Charles St becomes Bourbon Street when it reaches Canal Street so it was fairly seamless for me to get there.

 

Tomorrow its time to board the ship - we only have about 30 people on the roll call and only half of those are active so there is no formal meet and greet but an informal one on our first full day at sea.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Putterdude]

Ut, spound like you are having fun...have a Coors for me but I confess I am now onto Miller Light or Ultra. ML was on sale last week for 30 tins for $16.99....cheaper than milk.

Oh, live update Canucks are ahead of the Black Hawks, 6-1 going into the 3rd....don't adjust your set...this is true.

[Urban trekker]

7 - 3 final - I partake in the CBC Fantasy Hockey Pool with a few friends - If I remember my Canuck players in that pool - too late and tired to go check it out right now - I think I had 14 points from those players and possibly more - can't remember if I added Sundin or not.

 

I really should think about going to bed after all I have to get up early and wait in line to board the ship - oh wait - I just remembered that I am now a Gold member so no more lineups for boarding and tender tickets.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[bcscot]

Has the Queen Of Saanich already gone?

 

Graham.

[Putterdude]

The Queen of Saanich was decommissioned on November 18th and then stripped of all things personal to BCF. She was then moved to the Deas yeard to await a sale. I can't determine anything beyond the November date.

The Tsawassenn has been sold to a BC logging outfit to be used as floating bunkhouse but not sure that that she has left the yard yet.

The Esquimalt is evidently sitting over in Port Alberni having been sold to Chinese interests and is awaiting favourable sea conditions in the Pacific before she crosses the Pacific.

The Vancouver had to be pressed back into service on the Victoria route when some of the Spirit ships had problems this winter and the Westminster was still in Vancouver Shipyards undergoing its re-do.

[Ferryman]

Greetings,

 

A few posts back, Graham mentions the sighting of the Queen of Tsawwassen at Tsawwassen. Is he sure that is who he saw? The Tsawwassen was still sitting at Deas when I drove past on Saturday Feb 7th, and has been doing so since September. She was in fact sold to a logging company.

 

The Esquimalt and Tsawwassen had buyers waiting for them it seemed like, before they were decomissioned. The Saanich has been sitting at Deas since her decomissioning in November, and BC Ferries wasted no time erasing all of her identity upon her arrival at the facility. As far as I know, the Saanich and Vancouver and still awaiting a buyer. This surprises me, because I thought for sure that the Saanich would easily be sold, since her interior was a little more desireable compared to the other V's.

 

http://www.pbase.com/ferryman/mv_queen_of_saanich

 

Here's some photos of the Esquimalt at Port Alberni, that a friend of mine took. The bow wave breaker is very noticable, and is actually the same bow wave breaker that was used for the delivery voyages on the Coastal vessels. Her bow doors have also been all welded shut.

 

 

It will be interesting to see if she actually makes it across the Pacific. The Sunshine Coast Quen sank on the way to China to be scrapped. I guess she didn't want to face the cutting torches.

 

The almost forgotten sisters of the V-Class, the Queen of Victoria, was scrapped at Alang India 2 years ago. She had served as a cargo vessel in the Dominican Repulbic after her retirement in 2001. Then one day, we just happened to see her in the background of a news article up on the beach, with a modified bow, and a shipboard ramp at the stern. Sad sight.

 

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/illustration/0,32-0,40-742198,0.html

[bcscot]

Hello. Thank you for those interesting photos. I have a soft spot for the Queen Of Saanich as she was one of the first BC Ferries upon which I sailed, back in 1973 (I have a photo of her, but am not sure which was the other ferry upon which I crossed at that time).

 

Well, I would be the first to admit that I am often wrong about things (no, sorry, that would be my wife!), but I believed that I was looking at the Queen Of Tsawwassen. She was in the third berth along. The Queen Of Vancouver was in the first (on the Swartz Bay run), we were in the second berth on the Coastal Inspiration (for Duke Point), a ferry like the Queen Of Vancouver, but shorter (one deck less) was in the next berth along (I do need new glasses but I thought it said 'Queen Of Tsawwassen' on it) & the Queen Of New West. was next along ( or maybe visa versa).

 

I don't know what else she could have been. Any suggestions?

 

Graham.