How to Spend More Money to Get a Better Cruise?

[fann1sh]

Instead of 7 - 10 days on Holland America in a suite, why not a luxury line instead? Because we will be in Florida, and can drive to the port for a Caribbean cruise, very important to us. In the next 18 months, there's a grand total of six 7 -10 day Caribbean cruises departing/returning Florida on 6* lines.

 

We paid $2000 pp for our HAL suite. Of those 6* the pp prices are: $5650 Regent - 5025 Silversea- 4125 Regent- 2950 Regent- 2950 Regent- 2600 Crystal. The last 3, in the right price range, aren't even remotely close to when/where we want to travel. (In fact, neither are the more expensive ones :))

 

Also, the "start price" of 6* lines don't usually include balconies. I don't want to spend $2 - 3,000 for a cruise and not have a balcony!

[JunPOA]

[

 

But I think what that poster meant was having some HAL cruises that cost more, but were perhaps all-inclusive or close to it.

 

The thing I don't understand ... and would appreciate clarification on ... is why someone who was willing to spend top dollar for a luxury or penthouse suite would sail in that suite on a mass market line. Wouldn't it cost no more to sail one of the luxury lines if you were gonna book HAL's penthouse or a full-scale luxury suite with Neptune Lounge privileges? And, at least on the luxury line chances are you drinks would be included, a shore excursion or two would be thrown in, and you'd get some other free ammenities that on HAL you would have to pay for. This means that I would assume you'd have a more "refined" experience for an actually cheaper price.

 

Anyone want to enlighten me about this?

Happy Mothers Day Ladies:)

In response to kyros request for "enlightenment" - thought you HAL folks might be interested i nknowing the same type of discussion (lengthly I might add) was taking place on the Regent board over the past few weeks. Perhaps you all may share some of their same mindsets & sentiments.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=750482

 

BTW - the reason I found this is becasue I'm debating & rsearchign between HAL, regent & Crystal for my 30th wedding anniversary cruise celebration coming up Fall 2009.

Have a great Sunday ladies!

Leah

[url=http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=750482][/url]

[sail7seas]

Kryos.... Why sail HAL "S" suites time and again vs other lines you suggest?

 

Because of HAL crews. We love the crews on HAL and for us, much of what we love about cruising are the people of HAL. We love the mood on HAL ships, the physical ships themselves, no one else has a "Maasdam" or a "Noordam". Some ships have feeling like no other such as those do for us. We are getting what we want from a cruise on HAL and until or unless we don't, we wouldn't dream of sailing any other line. After 55+ HAL cruises, we'd be lost souls on another line and no others tempt us in the least. When we board HAL ship, we feel we've come back to our 'floating home'.

 

I was invited to lunch and tour Silversea. Beautiful ship. Very professional staff. Their large suite is comparable but Not for us! We've seen the occasional 'bargain' but we weren't even tempted.

Seabourn..... perhaps some day but absolutely not now. Holds no appeal for me.

 

 

Also, we want to board in the U.S. as much as possible and not travel long distances to catch the ships.

 

We love HAL. That is why we sail this company and not another.

[RuthC]

I'd gladly pay more to get back to the way things used to be (should be) - both cruising and flying.

 

In my option, HAL has made a major mistake by overbuilding capacity and then being forced to sell cheap to fill the berths - and in doing so, being forced to diminish the standard of quality and make things extra cost that used to be included.

I'm in absolute agreement with this. Over time I came to love all that HAL provided, and would like to have that again---on the same cruiseline.

 

The question for me is not "How much will this cruise cost?", so much as it is "Can I afford this cruise?". There's a big difference between those questions. If HAL were to find a way to provide what they used to, then I would find a way to afford it.

[marle7]

I'm in absolute agreement with this. Over time I came to love all that HAL provided, and would like to have that again---on the same cruiseline.

 

The question for me is not "How much will this cruise cost?", so much as it is "Can I afford this cruise?". There's a big difference between those questions. If HAL were to find a way to provide what they used to, then I would find a way to afford it.

 

Another way to phrase that question might be "how much is this cruise worth". If I feel like what I am getting is worth it, I'll find a way to afford it.:)

[Sailorgirlseattle]

Good point.

Anyone want to enlighten me about this?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Wish I could, but don't sail in that class :p

[hammybee]

I am frankly stunned at some of their prices these days as I would have paid more (and have and will pay more ;)), but they set the price. [/quote]

 

I think it important to dispel any notion that HAL or any cruise or air line sets their price. Everything sells for as much as the market will bear, at any point in time. The market ( consumers) determine price. Cruise and air lines respond to that price point by modifying the onboard experience. Those who don't, fold and those who do it better than the others, tend to survive.

 

It is the nature of business, all business, to expand until it exceeds demand for their product. It's like the Peter Principal of business. Competition is good for the consumer. It does however, have a tendency over time to errode the quality of the core product.

 

HAL will soon have 14 ships in the sea. HAL needs about 1 million passengers a year to fill the berths in all the cabins. Last I checked, the majority of those cabins remain inside/outside and in the Vista class, low grade verandas, often selling for bargain basement prices, on relatively routine intineraries.

 

How is it that pasengers are sailing BTB in Alaska for $65 p/p, per day ( exclusive of port, taxes and fuel surcharges) hope for getting a better cabin than which they paid for via an upgrade and expecting that the onboard experience is not going to diminish?

 

That bargain basement prices represent a bigger chunk of many passengers' current or future disposabe incomes than it ever has, in the history of recreational cruising, is fact.

 

The prices we see are a reflection of what the majority will spend. It's obvious that the majority of passengers choose to fly and cruise based upon price. Those relatively few who can afford more, are often paying a sigificant premium because demand usually exceeds supply for Deluxe Suites and the Penthouse.

 

Trading up has typically meant forgoing convenienct embarkation ports. Trading up also sometimes means having to accept a smaller or lesser cabin grade on a true luxury cruise line, unless willing to pay even more.

 

It is no accident that many of the so-called true luxury cruise lines are positioning themselves to sail more frequently, from U.S. ports, on more relatively routine runs, like Canada and the Caribbean. Rather than wish and hope against the odds that the masses will all of a sudden be willing to pay more to get more and thus what once was, will be restored, I would be more inclined to try Crystal out of NYC for Canada or MIA for the Caribbean, or Seaborn out of FLL for the Caribbean or Silver Sea out of LA.

 

Is the grass really all that greener for the $ on the luxury cruise lines? It's unlikely I will ever know but I sure would enjoy being the armchair passenger and reading about it from those who are in the best position to compare and contrast experiences.

[hammybee]

Good point.

 

But I think what that poster meant was having some HAL cruises that cost more, but were perhaps all-inclusive or close to it.

 

The thing I don't understand ... and would appreciate clarification on ... is why someone who was willing to spend top dollar for a luxury or penthouse suite would sail in that suite on a mass market line. Wouldn't it cost no more to sail one of the luxury lines if you were gonna book HAL's penthouse or a full-scale luxury suite with Neptune Lounge privileges? And, at least on the luxury line chances are you drinks would be included, a shore excursion or two would be thrown in, and you'd get some other free ammenities that on HAL you would have to pay for. This means that I would assume you'd have a more "refined" experience for an actually cheaper price.

 

Anyone want to enlighten me about this? Blue skies ...--rita

 

Many people enjoy living in the biggest and nicest house in the neighborhood rather than a more ordinary house in a so-called better perceived neighborhood.

 

Many people love their neighborhoods and the people so much that when there is an opportunity they will construct an even bigger house just to stay put, where they have friends, family and so on. They can clearly afford to live anywhere, but they choose to stay put- sometimes even as the neighborhood around them sets on a slippery-slope.

 

Lastly, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Every passenger on a more exclusive cruise line pays for every ammenity in their cruise fare. And many of them do not settle for what's included and pay a premium for better quality wine and alchohol. The cruise lines know this.

[kryos]

Wish I could, but don't sail in that class :p

LOL ... and neither do I, my friend. I simply couldn't afford it.

 

I appreciate the feedback. Guess a good point was made about people staying in their own neighborhood because they like it, building a bigger or better house if necessary.

 

Guess I never looked at it that way. I was just "going by the numbers" and the numbers seemed to indicate that HAL wouldn't be that great a deal once you got up into the higher prices for suites and the penthouse. It would seem the luxury lines would have been the better deal, but then the luxury lines wouldn't be HAL ... and I guess there is something to be said for being in the best accommodations on the ship, as opposed to just ordinary (though similar accommodations to everyone else's) on the luxury line.

 

Guess I understand a bit better now.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Hutch&Pat]

A big concern is that should HAL continue to charge extra for amenities, that it will turn into an 'Easy Cruise' type where some folks will just book the cheapest cabin, drink the standard coffee, and take up the lounge chairs and never partake in any of the wonderful amenities, shows, excursions, lectures, bridge or cooking lessons if there is a price. And with the new AYW dining, we would end up eating the 'free' meals with them unless we went to the Pinnacle Grill.

Yes, there's a lot of us who like it the way it is/was. And it's not so much the actual price but the 'value' as someone pointed out ..... and cruising and dining with those who are paying the same price as those on Easy Cruise or the cheapest of the cheapest on Carnival, will affect the 'value' ..... so essentially we have always been willing to pay the price for 'value', but the 'value' will be affected/lowered with the more pay per use they add.

Just my 2 cents!

Pat

[Williebill]

I'd gladly pay more to get back to the way things used to be (should be) - both cruising and flying.

 

In my option, HAL has made a major mistake by overbuilding capacity and then being forced to sell cheap to fill the berths - and in doing so, being forced to diminish the standard of quality and make things extra cost that used to be included.

 

HAL also seems to think that they need to appeal to the Carnival crowd - trying to bring them up to HAL - ie: from a Carnival Suite to a HAL Verandah, or from a Carnival Verandah to a HAL Outside - but IMO, it just doesn't work that way and just serves to alienate the repeaters.

 

Things were different aboard HAL prior to Carnival taking them over!!

[sail7seas]

......Twenty years ago. Many things thoughout our society, indeed the world, were very different twenty years ago.

[RuthC]

Things were different aboard HAL prior to Carnival taking them over!!

Things were different aboard HAL much more recently than that. The changes most of us regret took place came about long after Carnival Corp. rescued HAL.

[Mary Ellen]

Things were different aboard HAL much more recently than that. The changes most of us regret took place came about long after Carnival Corp. rescued HAL.

I'll second that. HAL wouldn't be around if it weren't for Carnival and we barely noticed any changes at the time when HAL went to being under the Carnival Corp. I'm sure someone will come along with the exact date, but it was years ago.

[RuthC]

I'm sure someone will come along with the exact date, but it was years ago.

The exact date Carnival took over, you mean? I can come close (month and year). The deal was struck in December, 1988 and finalized in January, 1989. It will be 20 years in a few months.

Close enough?

[Mary Ellen]

Close enough?

Yep. :D I'm always surprised at how many seem to feel this was a recent event.

[hammybee]

Things were different aboard HAL prior to Carnival taking them over!!

 

Yes things were different twenty years ago. Passengers paid considerably more for inside and outside cabins than they do today on routine sails. And those cabins were inferior compared to the current cabins.

 

The ships themselves were getting a bit long in the tooth and the carpets were often threadbare. Passengers smoked everywhere, including the dining rooms. People did not line up to duke it out with the Dining Room Manager becasue they did not get their preferred dining time, table size, and location. Most specialty diets could not be accommodated. The coffee was swill.

 

Ship to shore phone calls could easily exceed the price of a cruise. No one could have imagined the need to stay in touch with everyone via a computer. And what was playing on TV in the cabin did not matter much to anyone. That your favorite movie could be had in cabin, at whim, was unimaginable.

 

Most folk tipped reasonably well because it was the right thing to do. Only a few hid in their cabins rather than tip the wait staff who had served them well.

 

Everyone got up early to stake out a place in the Lido, on the final morning and waited to be allowed off the ship.

 

People did look forward to dressing for dinner and dining with new found friends. Most people displayed manners, most of the time. The entertainment was better as were the activities. The Social Hostess knew how to bring passengers together. Art auctions had not yet made their debut. And fountain sodas were included in the price of a cruise.

 

And the price of a 7 day cruise was more than it is today, despite that the cost of nearly everything else has doubled and doubed again, in the past twenty years.

[hammybee]

After 9/11 there were many incredible cruise bargains out there for a year or so and I am sure that to keep operating the cruise lines took a hit and made some compromises.

 

Since 9/11, the mass market cruise lines have collectively introduced about 35 new ships, several of which carry as many as 4500 passengers, when sailing with every berth filled. This created hyper competition on certain intineraries at certan times of the year, leading to steep discounting and we know where this leads.

 

I do not think it possible for cruise lines to charge more than the market will bear, because unlike flying, no one has to cruise.

 

The business is overdue for a shake up, either a bankruptcy or a sell off. It's cyclical and happens in every business prone to overbuilding. It's necessary to the financial health of the survivors.

 

And as much as passengers become disappointed when their cruise is cancelled ten or more months into the future, due to charters or changes in routes, it's necessary to sustain the brand in an ultra -competitive marketplace.

[chasetf]

Yes things were different twenty years ago. Passengers paid considerably more for inside and outside cabins than they do today on routine sails. And those cabins were inferior compared to the current cabins..

I agree...... The most expensive cruise (cost per day) we have even taken was the Starward Caribbean itinerary in 1991. That was an mid level outside cabin (no balconies) and was in the days before the Internet where you could shop for price and .......cruise lines and agents competed.

People did look forward to dressing for dinner and dining with new found friends. Most people displayed manners, most of the time. The entertainment was better as were the activities. The Social Hostess knew how to bring passengers together. Art auctions had not yet made their debut. And fountain sodas were included in the price of a cruise.

 

And the price of a 7 day cruise was more than it is today, despite that the cost of nearly everything else has doubled and doubed again, in the past twenty years.

With the mass expansion of the cruising industry, the industry has had to turn to and entice the masses to sail. The masses are not the caviar and champagne type (including me), sail on a budget (or should), and want to travel more leisurely.

[hammybee]

 

With the mass expansion of the cruising industry, the industry has had to turn to and entice the masses to sail. The masses are not the caviar and champagne type (including me), sail on a budget (or should), and want to travel more leisurely.

 

As cruising has become more affordable for the masses, it represents a bigger chunk of passenger's current or future discretionary spending.

 

According to bankrate.com, some 40 % of families spend more than they earn. Home equity has been used to fuel better lifestyles than many homeowners could otherwise afford. Sooner or later the Piper has to be paid and consumers are forced to do without.

 

I'll meet you at Walmart, for coffee.

[MrsMuir]

Thank you, Sail, for such a great thread. Yes, we would spend a bit more to have a truly premium cruise experience! We sacrifice a lot to sail in the best accomodations we can manage, because we both love to be on a beautiful ship manned by an exceptional crew. We would rather pay about 10% more to ensure a truly worthwhile experience. Are you listening, Seattle?

 

Mrs Muir

[hammybee]

How do I get the lowest fare?

 

The price of my cruise has gone down since I booked. How do I get that price?

 

How do I book a cruise and get free OBC?

 

I booked a guarantee and want to know my chances of an upgrade ( getting something more than I paid for)?

 

How do I smuggle booze onboard to avoid paying outrageous prices?

 

Why can't the booze I buy onboard be taken to my cabin?

 

I HATE the art auctions and why don't the cruise lines throw them overboard?

 

How do I arrange to take food off the ship so I do not have to pay for lunch, while on shore?

 

May I order two or more entrees?

 

Why is there a mark-up on shore excursions?

 

How do I remove the auto tip/hotel charge because I want to personally reward only those who served me well?

 

Why are prices for 2009 so high?

 

Why are the cruise lines gouging us for fuel surcharges?

 

Why do I have to pay a single suppliment?

 

Why do I have to pay for dinner in a surcharge restaurant?

 

It does not sound to me like a lot of people are willing to pay more to sustain more.

[KLLund]

As one of the masses .. I enjoy the Hal experience but I am not married to it. I find that many cruiselines have comparable products and experiences .. and I appreciate that it is possible for us to cruise a couple times a year and even take our grown children with us once in awhile.

 

We were on the 3rd sailing of the Oosterdam and we were on her again in Feb of this year and we did notice a lot of change. Perhaps I would pay more for a different experience .. but we masses don't apparently know much difference .. I still thought it was a terrific cruise on a wonderful ship with lovely service and a good value for the money.

[Philip217]

So far it looks as if we have found about 17 HAL Cruisers (and probably their spouses, so now we have 34) who are willing to pay more for a better cruise. This doesn't look very promising.

 

But then we need to consider that Cruisecritic represents only about 2% of the cruising public. So can we assume that if we received votes from 100% of HAL cruisers, we might come up with 1700 HAL passengers willing to pay extra (once or twice a year) for a better cruise?

 

So should HAL dedicate one ship with much better amenities and perks included for a higher price, for one or two cruises a year - and hope that all 1700 enlightened peoople are available and willing to cruise on those dates?

[AirGorilla]

Better amenities and perks are available for a higher price, as we speak. Crystal, Oceania, Regent, etc., are ready when you are.

 

But ... that better stuff isn't coming from HAL.