Passenger Vessel Services Act summary to date

[Cuizer2]

So how are those 2 day "Cruises to nowhere" legal under the Passenger Vessel Services Act?

 

Here is what is says ...

 

No foreign vessels shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $300 for each passenger so transported and landed.

 

Since the ship doesn't take the passengers anywhere, except back to the same location two days later, why would you think a two day CTN is not legal?

[Earthworm Jim]

O.k., got it now. It would only apply if the ship was stopping at another U.S. port.

[Cuizer2]

O.k., got it now. It would only apply if the ship was stopping at another U.S. port.

Right. However, there are exceptions. For example, a foreign flagged ship can stop at a US port as long as it makes at least one stop at a foreign port, and returns the passengers to the original port.

 

Or, a foreign flagged ship can transport passengers between two US port if it makes a stop at a distant foreign port ...

 

"There is no violation of U.S. cabotage law in cases where passengers board a non-coastwise qualified vessel at one U.S. port and disembark (at the conclusion of the voyage) at another U.S. port, as long as the vessel makes an intermediate stop at a "distant foreign port" (19 CFR 4.80a)."

 

http://www.trans-inst.org/3.html

 

"You almost need to be an attorney to understand the precise regulations under the PSA. (Heck, I am an attorney and I still don't understand!) To make sense of the regulations, you need to know that non-US ports are classified as either "nearby foreign ports" or "distant foreign ports." Despite the name, a "nearby foreign port" means:

• any port in Canada
  
• any port in Mexico
  
• Bermuda
  
• any port in the Caribbean (except those in the Netherlands Antilles, such as Aruba and Curaçao)

A "distant foreign port" means any other port, except a U.S. port.

With those definitions in mind, here's what's allowed:

• A cruise which starts and ends in the same US port, visits a nearby or distant foreign port, and where no permanent disembarkation is permitted during the cruise at any US port (because there has been no transportation BETWEEN US ports (Huh?)
  
• A cruise between different US ports where no permanent disembarkation is permitted along the way, but at least one port is a nearby foreign port
  
• A cruise between US ports where permanent disembarkation IS allowed at a US port along the way, but only if the ship visits a distant foreign port and any permanent disembarkation takes place at a subsequent US port
  
• A "cruise to nowhere" from a US port where the ship travels beyond US territorial waters and keeps moving
  
• Any cruise which visits US ports but where no permanent disembarkation is allowed along the way and the cruise begins or ends at a distant or nearby foreign port

A reader paying careful attention at this point might say, "Hey, I can think of some cruises that don't fit into those exemptions." Well, that's because we haven't got to two more rules:

• The US Virgin Islands are presently exempt from the regulations, and may be treated as though its ports were "nearby foreign ports."
  
• Travel between the US mainland and Puerto Rico is allowed, provided that no eligible US vessel offers such service"

http://www.sealetter.com/Oct-99/alancol.html

 

Two popular "distant foreign ports" are Aruba and Cartagena. Thus, you will see a lot of Florida to California (or California to Florida) cruises will stop in either Aruba or Cartagena (or some other distant foreign port). I took a cruise from Los Angeles to Miami that stopped in Cartagena. Note that a cruise between San Juan and a US port is not affected by this rule because San Juan is a US territory and is exempt.

[smeyer418]

Hi all, just returned from our NCL Dream cruise. Would have to classify this as "rumor" but our cabin steward, who is a very long term NCL employee, told us that the Pride of America is 'done' the end of this year and NCL is going back to foreign flagged ships, as before, for Hawaii. He says they are already taking bids for crew slots and he has put in for one. We shall see!

 

 

I am told that the Pride of America will continue to sail as an American Flagged ship. 15% of the American flagged P of A is allowed to be foreign non-us nationals and what may have happened is this was what was being bid out to the international crew on the NCL ships(for the higher pay)....

but only time will really tell. I have been told the Pride of America is making sufficeint money(more than some of the current NCL ships)....

[DAGVBSB]

Hi all, just returned from our NCL Dream cruise. Would have to classify this as "rumor" but our cabin steward, who is a very long term NCL employee, told us that the Pride of America is 'done' the end of this year and NCL is going back to foreign flagged ships, as before, for Hawaii. He says they are already taking bids for crew slots and he has put in for one. We shall see!

 

Now that would be supported by the agreement between NCL & Apollo. In August, 2007, when Apollo bought most of NCL from Star, it was written into the contract that Apollo would evaluate the NCL-A situation and make a decision on NCL-America. Within 16 months, Apollo would make a decision to keep NCL-America or "liquidate" their assets. (the exact word used in the agreement was liquidate...) The agreement further said that if NCL-A was liquidated, the Pride of America would be reflagged and become part of NCL's fleet.

 

The 16 month window is up at the end of calander year 2008.... the same time as Cvanhorn's crew member says that the POAm is "done."

 

Also, James has been surprisingly quiet lately on the fate of NCL-America and the POAm. In the past when anyone even mentions NCL-A folding or POAm being changed, he jumps in very quickly and shoots down the story (or rumor.) He hasn't said a thing about this "rumor" that has been on the board for several days.

 

 

I predicted way back in February, that NCL-A would cease operations by the end of the year.....looks like that predicition may come true. (and all those people with POAm cruises booked throughout 2009 are going to be in for a little shock when their itinerary gets altered.... Fanning Island, here they come....)

[ohioNCLcruiser]

Now that would be supported by the agreement between NCL & Apollo. In August, 2007, when Apollo bought most of NCL from Star, it was written into the contract that Apollo would evaluate the NCL-A situation and make a decision on NCL-America. Within 16 months, Apollo would make a decision to keep NCL-America or "liquidate" their assets. (the exact word used in the agreement was liquidate...) The agreement further said that if NCL-A was liquidated, the Pride of America would be reflagged and become part of NCL's fleet.

 

The 16 month window is up at the end of calander year 2008.... the same time as Cvanhorn's crew member says that the POAm is "done."

 

Also, James has been surprisingly quiet lately on the fate of NCL-America and the POAm. In the past when anyone even mentions NCL-A folding or POAm being changed, he jumps in very quickly and shoots down the story (or rumor.) He hasn't said a thing about this "rumor" that has been on the board for several days.

 

 

I predicted way back in February, that NCL-A would cease operations by the end of the year.....looks like that predicition may come true. (and all those people with POAm cruises booked throughout 2009 are going to be in for a little shock when their itinerary gets altered.... Fanning Island, here they come....)

 

 

Actually I just found out about this rumor today. I'm pretty sure that dream crew member was bidding on one of the international spots on the ship. They are fought over spots. That crew member should really be careful what he says. Thats a pretty big FALSE rumor to say to a guest. Of course the passenger might of just misunderstood (and that happens a lot).

 

Also that original agreement when Apollo bought half of NCL about them not having anything to do with NCL America was tossed when they reflagged the Aloha.

 

The original deal was if they decided to discontinue the American brand the Aloha would go to Star and the America would stay with NCL. However, due to the America actually making money they canceled that original plan, pulled the Aloha and are now 100% backing the Pride Of America.

 

With the America making nice money, ratings going higher and higher and no staff issues I think you will see her for a long time!

[DAGVBSB]

I am told that the Pride of America will continue to sail as an American Flagged ship. 15% of the American flagged P of A is allowed to be foreign non-us nationals and what may have happened is this was what was being bid out to the international crew on the NCL ships(for the higher pay)....

 

I thought the number was raised to 25%. When I was on the Pride of Aloha, we were told it was 15% foreign, but most foreign positions were being given to engineers and officers who could better run the ship.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

I thought the number was raised to 25%. When I was on the Pride of Aloha, we were told it was 15% foreign, but most foreign positions were being given to engineers and officers who could better run the ship.

 

Was 15% when I left the America. Most of the international crew on my ship were in waiters, housekeeping, dishwashers & Utility Galley.. etc position.

[vjmatty]

I I have been told the Pride of America is making sufficeint money(more than some of the current NCL ships)....

 

Then they really have no need to keep up this PVSA crusade.... in fact they should really have no interest in doing so since many of their other non-American ships would be violating their own proposed rule in Alaska.

[cvanhorn]

Was 15% when I left the America. Most of the international crew on my ship were in waiters, housekeeping, dishwashers & Utility Galley.. etc position.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the international crew have to be green card holders to comply with the "american flagged" law? How hard is it for the crew working other ships to get a "green card"

[Cuizer2]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the international crew have to be green card holders to comply with the "american flagged" law? How hard is it for the crew working other ships to get a "green card"

Not too hard. They just have to go to a 7-11 (not in the store - the corner just outside the store) and for $50 they've got a green card.

[aaerobear]

You are incorrect and you should learn what a "greencard" is. Actually it is now called an ARC which means Alien Registration Card. If all the crew had ARC's then it would be considered 100% as being American Crewed (ARC cardholders are people that are on the way to becoming US citizens or are permanent residents of the USA)

 

The 15% or 25% rule that is mentioned means that 15 or 25 percent of the crew does NOT have to be US citizens or registered aliens. It means that, in order to satisfy the US labor laws, 75 to 85 percent of the crew must be US citizens or US registered aliens.

 

All of the crew members on ships sailing into or out of the USA must have US work visa's which are job specific and not related to becoming a permanent resident or citizen.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

the 85% crew must be US citizens or from Guam and Puerto Rico.

[Cuizer2]

the 85% crew must be US citizens or from Guam and Puerto Rico.

You forgot St. Thomas, Washington DC and New Jersey. :)

[Sundagger]

the 85% crew must be US citizens or from Guam and Puerto Rico.

 

There is no "or" involved. People born in the US, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands are all US citizens.

[DAGVBSB]

You forgot St. Thomas, Washington DC and New Jersey. :)

 

 

They have also made an exemption for people from Cleveland to be US citizens, that is why James is allowed on board.....:D :D

 

 

(just a little dig at Clevelander James from Columbus......)

[vjmatty]

There is no "or" involved. People born in the US, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands are all US citizens.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth...er, keyboard ;)

[cvanhorn]

Well, here is one thing on the crew staffing, but it is from 2006, so that may have been superceded by now.

 

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Nov/09/bz/FP611090323.html

[ohioNCLcruiser]

They have also made an exemption for people from Cleveland to be US citizens, that is why James is allowed on board.....:D :D

 

 

(just a little dig at Clevelander James from Columbus......)

 

As long as you call it Pop not soda you're cool in my book!

[DAGVBSB]

As long as you call it Pop not soda you're cool in my book!

 

What is "soda" anyway???

 

 

(if you aren't from Ohio, you won't get this....)

[Ethel5]

What is "soda" anyway???

 

 

(if you aren't from Ohio, you won't get this....)

 

I got it and I'm from RI. Soda is the fizzy drink and Pop is the male parent. :D

[kaymbee]

Could be from the South where everything is "coke" no matter what the flavor and you have to ask for unsweetened tea if you don't want the sugar and maybe they will have it if you are lucky. :rolleyes:

[ohioNCLcruiser]

Could be from the South where everything is "coke" no matter what the flavor and you have to ask for unsweetened tea if you don't want the sugar and maybe they will have it if you are lucky. :rolleyes:

 

I saw Paula Dean on tv talkin about that y'allllll

[wrp96]

Could be from the South where everything is "coke" no matter what the flavor and you have to ask for unsweetened tea if you don't want the sugar and maybe they will have it if you are lucky. :rolleyes:

 

 

It confused the heck out of me the first few months I lived here, because I couldn't understand why they kept asking what type of Coke I wanted.

[Cruisin' Chick]

My father would call it "pop" and he grew up in Chicago. We called it soda.