AA/BA/Iberia-possible new joint deal

[greatam]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac3382cc-4881-11dd-a851-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

 

Could make a HUGE difference in Transatlantic flights. BA across the pond with AA miles-SWEET!!!!

[Globaliser]

But I'm not holding my breath ...

[nho9504]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac3382cc-4881-11dd-a851-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

 

Could make a HUGE difference in Transatlantic flights. BA across the pond with AA miles-SWEET!!!!

 

Currently we are holding award seats YYZ/LHR/BCN on BA.

 

For your location (PHX), you could go up to YVR, or down th MEX to take the BA flight. I wouldn't mind doing that if I live in West Coast city.

 

Would love to see this to materialize. Though I am more like Global, not holding my breath for it.

[greatam]

Currently we are holding award seats YYZ/LHR/BCN on BA.

 

For your location (PHX), you could go up to YVR, or down th MEX to take the BA flight. I wouldn't mind doing that if I live in West Coast city.

 

Would love to see this to materialize. Though I am more like Global, not holding my breath for it.

 

Why would I want to do that???? There is a nonstop BA flight out of PHX. 7:20PM every night.

 

Just credit my miles to Qantas if I fly BA (thanks, Globaliser from YEARS ago). I can't USE my AA miles to fly BA from Phoenix and I sure as heck am not going to fly to YVR or Mexico City just to be able to use my miles on BA. I fly enough as it is. I occasionally already fly to YVR to catch the Cathay fight to HKG. But I don't go to Europe enough times for it to make a difference. I am not a big Europe fan (except AMS). MUCH prefer off the wall destinations in developing countries (which is where a large percentage of my business is).

[nho9504]

Why would I want to do that???? There is a nonstop BA flight out of PHX. 7:20PM every night.

 

Just credit my miles to Qantas if I fly BA (thanks, Globaliser from YEARS ago). I can't USE my AA miles to fly BA from Phoenix and I sure as heck am not going to fly to YVR or Mexico City just to be able to use my miles on BA. I fly enough as it is. I occasionally already fly to YVR to catch the Cathay fight to HKG. But I don't go to Europe enough times for it to make a difference. I am not a big Europe fan (except AMS). MUCH prefer off the wall destinations in developing countries (which is where a large percentage of my business is).

 

Because flying BA accross the pond from US does not earn you any AA miles on pay ticket.

 

Because Award tickets do not allow you fly BA accross the pond originating from US.

 

Because BA Club World and BA F are 10 times better than AA's business and AA F.

 

Because we really enjoy YVR in summer time, and we have families in both YYZ & YVR.

 

Because QF award redemption chart stinks - it takes a lot more QF miles to redeem equivalent flights on AA All Partner awards for trips we generally take. I have not explored the intra region awards so I dont have knowledge to comment on that.

 

Now that you mention CX - I need to look into the details on Asia Miles to see how it works in the scheme of OW member flights - because Asia Miles would definitely be useful to us. However, judging from the fact that discounted TransPac CX flights dont earn miles, I dont have much high hope on Asia Miles would let you credit AA flights to it, except for much higher fare codes.

 

I think years ago one can credit BA miles to AS at 100% but that changed. ditto the QF discount flights. They are now at 25% level. LAN just devaluated its discount flights to the 25% level as well. Sad.

 

Besides, if you dont care much about Europe, why would that flying BA accross the pond on AA miles would be of much relevance to you. Yet, you proclaim this as being SWEET - so this is kind of contradictary signals on your 2 posts.

[greatam]

Because flying BA accross the pond from US does not earn you any AA miles on pay ticket.

 

Because Award tickets do not allow you fly BA accross the pond originating from US.

 

Because BA Club World and BA F are 10 times better than AA's business and AA F.

 

Because we really enjoy YVR in summer time, and we have families in both YYZ & YVR.

 

Because QF award redemption chart stinks - it takes a lot more QF miles to redeem equivalent flights on AA All Partner awards for trips we generally take. I have not explored the intra region awards so I dont have knowledge to comment on that.

 

Now that you mention CX - I need to look into the details on Asia Miles to see how it works in the scheme of OW member flights - because Asia Miles would definitely be useful to us. However, judging from the fact that discounted TransPac CX flights dont earn miles, I dont have much high hope on Asia Miles would let you credit AA flights to it, except for much higher fare codes.

 

I think years ago one can credit BA miles to AS at 100% but that changed. ditto the QF discount flights. They are now at 25% level. LAN just devaluated its discount flights to the 25% level as well. Sad.

 

Besides, if you dont care much about Europe, why would that flying BA accross the pond on AA miles would be of much relevance to you. Yet, you proclaim this as being SWEET - so this is kind of contradictary signals on your 2 posts.

 

What would be SWEET is the opportunity to USE my AA miles on the BA nonstop out of Phoenix, instead of paying the outrageous business class fare. When I do have to go to Europe, IF I fly the nonstop out of Phoenix on BA, crediting the miles to Qantas works just fine. I have MORE than enough AA miles. CX short haul flights are more readily available with Qantas than with AA. In fact, it is a MAJOR hassle to book a CX codeshare with Vietnam Airlines using AA miles. Qantas always seems to have availability. And Qantas had availability for Concorde when AA did not. I don't have a lot of Qantas miles and probably never will have again (after the super duper InsideFlyer/Starwood deal a few years ago). But what I do have can be used in certain places MUCH more easily than AA miles.

 

Others would probably find it SWEET to fly BA across the pond and credit the flight to AA-doesn't matter what class of service.

 

Nothing contradictory about my thought process or statements. The BA/AA transatlantic mileage credit would be a benefit to many. What Iberia brings to the deal is left to be seen.

[auntdot]

DH and I are not very well travelled, obviously! We have only recently started cruising which has meant more flying. Maybe some of you experienced people could give us some advice on FF programs - even how to do this so we have something at the end of the big trip in 2010:

 

We currently save Air Miles - and this gets us our annual flight from YYZ to visit relatives - sometimes two flights. Our TA gives Aeroplan miles. But... we are taking BA (YYZ - LHR -FCO -VCE-LGW -YYZ) in October, AA (YYZ -MIA-EZE -SCL (LAN) - MIA -YYZ) in January/February and now we have booked a B2B2B from Auckland to Vancouver in March 2010 where we are planning to use Air Miles for YYZ-YVR -return plus some hotel nights and then we'll need one way to Auckland/Sydney perhaps via Hawaii. Any advice re maximizing one plan for the big trip? It would be nice if BA & AA would recognize one another and let us combine our two previous flights (but so far not across the Atlantic!!!) and then add on for the long haul downunder. It seems crazy to have 4 different plans going!

 

What would you do?

 

Thanks,

Dot

[nho9504]

Isn't BA already owns part of IB and has the right to purchase 32% more of IB shares?

 

May be eventually it would be like the QF / NZ situation, while there are still 2 airlines but in reality, one much stronger airline actually owns the other one.

 

I do agree if eventually the antitrust is cleared and one can fly BA originating from US on AA miles would be great news to most people. Though I am at Global's camp, not plan on such happening.

 

We look at CX from completely different angles - you are looking at CX short-haul flights which I assume are those intra-Asia flights as award redemption possibilities, I am looking at CX long-haul premium cabins as our redemption goal. Vietnam is a place we have NO desire to go, even someone pays us to. :p My neighbor is a private jet pilot and he currently is based in Moscow. Guy is a Danish, has a home in Florida that he does not live in. Recently he has to do a few flights to Vietnam. His words, "You think Moscow is bad, Vietnam is 10 times worse." Huh, we have known Southeast Asia too well and really have a good laugh out of this guy's proclaimation.

 

For intra-Asia flights, there are so many good fares to be had thru the local travel agencies, we never bother to investigate the award redemption possibilities. Give us the illusive CX F award YVR/HKG or SFO (LAX) /HKG, we can go at the drop of a hat. Now AA has moved China from Asia 1 to Asia 2, I wonder if some creative routings would make this easier to materialize? Or go SYD and have HKG as stopover... It is a shame that there are enough miles for 6 r/t F Asia 2 tickets in our accounts but 0 F award seat available.

 

Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, these would be the only 3 Southeast Asian countries that we care to revisit. Though Singapore is really a city-nation, but a very impressive one. :D

[greatam]

We currently save Air Miles - and this gets us our annual flight from YYZ to visit relatives - sometimes two flights. Our TA gives Aeroplan miles. But... we are taking BA (YYZ - LHR -FCO -VCE-LGW -YYZ) in October, AA (YYZ -MIA-EZE -SCL (LAN) - MIA -YYZ) in January/February and now we have booked a B2B2B from Auckland to Vancouver in March 2010 where we are planning to use Air Miles for YYZ-YVR -return plus some hotel nights and then we'll need one way to Auckland/Sydney perhaps via Hawaii. Any advice re maximizing one plan for the big trip? It would be nice if BA & AA would recognize one another and let us combine our two previous flights (but so far not across the Atlantic!!!) and then add on for the long haul downunder. It seems crazy to have 4 different plans going!

 

What would you do?

 

Thanks,

Dot

 

BA and AA certainly recognize each other. They are part of OneWorld and OTHER than transatlantic flights from the US/London, mileage can be credited to either airline. I would recommend an AAdvantage account for your itineraries. You probably will have more chances to use your accumulated miles using AA than BA. Neither AA or BA partner with AirCanada, so a separate account is needed there.

 

For your trip to NZ/Australia, you could book AirPacific, AirTahiti Nui or Qantas and receive AA mileage credit. You will have to check the fare codes, because some fares are ineligible for mileage accumulation. You can even fly Alaska YVR to LAX, AA to HNL, AirPacifc to Sydney and Qantas to Auckland. All miles credited to AA. If you work it right, you can even get a day or two in Fiji.

 

Spend a little time reading the rules for AAdvantage. It will be beneficial.

[nho9504]

Since your flight is between UK and Canada, your BA flight would earn you AA miles if you choose to credit them to your AA account. It is only flights from US that earn a big fat 0.

 

LAN recently downgraded the earning power on the discounted fares, now only earn 25%.

 

When you take Air Canada, you can choose to credit your miles to a UA MP account which I believe has a better redemption level than Aeroplan.

 

My understanding of Air Miles is, it is a earning mechanism based on your credit card charges and you can use it to "purchase" pretty much any airline's ticket, with a pre-set value. Such program is very different from the airlines' own FF programs. It works differently and should not be confused with the FF programs of airlines, such as Aeroplan or AAdvantage.

 

No idea on your 2010 trip - that is way too far out in my book. Many things can happen before you even get to mid 2009.

 

DH and I are not very well travelled, obviously! We have only recently started cruising which has meant more flying. Maybe some of you experienced people could give us some advice on FF programs - even how to do this so we have something at the end of the big trip in 2010:

 

We currently save Air Miles - and this gets us our annual flight from YYZ to visit relatives - sometimes two flights. Our TA gives Aeroplan miles. But... we are taking BA (YYZ - LHR -FCO -VCE-LGW -YYZ) in October, AA (YYZ -MIA-EZE -SCL (LAN) - MIA -YYZ) in January/February and now we have booked a B2B2B from Auckland to Vancouver in March 2010 where we are planning to use Air Miles for YYZ-YVR -return plus some hotel nights and then we'll need one way to Auckland/Sydney perhaps via Hawaii. Any advice re maximizing one plan for the big trip? It would be nice if BA & AA would recognize one another and let us combine our two previous flights (but so far not across the Atlantic!!!) and then add on for the long haul downunder. It seems crazy to have 4 different plans going!

 

What would you do?

 

Thanks,

Dot

[greatam]

We look at CX from completely different angles - you are looking at CX short-haul flights which I assume are those intra-Asia flights as award redemption possibilities, I am looking at CX long-haul premium cabins as our redemption goal. Vietnam is a place we have NO desire to go, even someone pays us to. :p My neighbor is a private jet pilot and he currently is based in Moscow. Guy is a Danish, has a home in Florida that he does not live in. Recently he has to do a few flights to Vietnam. His words, "You think Moscow is bad, Vietnam is 10 times worse." Huh, we have known Southeast Asia too well and really have a good laugh out of this guy's proclaimation.

 

 

My routing would be LAX or YVR to HKG, THEN the CX codeshare with Vietnam Airlines into HAN, SGN, or BKK-IF I could get it with AA miles. BUT the CX shorthaul flights are very rarely available with AA miles, so it is an efficient place to use my Qantas miles. Otherwise, I have to route AA or now JAL to KIX, then JAL to Hanoi, then Vietnam Airlines to SGN. And again, no availability on the codeshare CX/Vietnam Airlines flight. But I have to make those long hauls too many times for business. Save the miles for a fun vacation, NOT a business trip.

 

You are missing one of the great awakening countries in the world not going to Vietnam. I was there in 1970. It has certainly changed. Still feels more Communist up north, but the south is wide open. They have watched China make a LOT of mistakes. They have learned well. And they LOVE Americans in the South. I have had more people go out of their way helping me move freight out of Vietnam and Cambodia than any other place in the world. They truly are trying to become a world class country, without all the hang ups of a Communist country.

[nho9504]

My routing would be LAX or YVR to HKG, THEN the CX codeshare with Vietnam Airlines into HAN, SGN, or BKK-IF I could get it with AA miles. BUT the CX shorthaul flights are very rarely available with AA miles, so it is an efficient place to use my Qantas miles. Otherwise, I have to route AA or now JAL to KIX, then JAL to Hanoi, then Vietnam Airlines to SGN. And again, no availability on the codeshare CX/Vietnam Airlines flight. But I have to make those long hauls too many times for business. Save the miles for a fun vacation, NOT a business trip.

 

You are missing one of the great awakening countries in the world not going to Vietnam. I was there in 1970. It has certainly changed. Still feels more Communist up north, but the south is wide open. They have watched China make a LOT of mistakes. They have learned well. And they LOVE Americans in the South. I have had more people go out of their way helping me move freight out of Vietnam and Cambodia than any other place in the world. They truly are trying to become a world class country, without all the hang ups of a Communist country.

 

Ah, different things suit different people. No desire to visit Vietnam / Laos / Cambodia. Again, you are looking at it from a business angle, which is vastly different from me looking at it from a ordinary traveller's perceptive.

 

No doubt, that part of the world is full of business opportunities and those who can exploit them are having tremendous success.

 

For us, we are more concerned with creature comfort and pleasant views - let the Peace Corp to save the world...

 

Asia is not an exocited place to us. We often are amazed by how the westerners being so facinated by the Asia, especially the more backward places of Asia...

 

Vietnam ... trying to be a world class country... hmmm, may be in next several decades, that is, provided its neighboring countries stay stagnant...

 

You cannot compare Vietnam to China for one very basic reason - the size and the diversity of population between these 2 countries is HUGE. One of the reasons why Singapore can be such a successful City-Nation because it is sooooo tiny.

 

Actually, lots of Vietnamese are Chinese decents, fwiw.

[Globaliser]

What Iberia brings to the deal is left to be seen.

It will be there to remind us that, however bad we think it has become on the airline we tend to fly (whether that be AA and BA), things could get an awful lot worse and we should be grateful for what we have. ;)

We currently save Air Miles - and this gets us our annual flight from YYZ to visit relatives - sometimes two flights. Our TA gives Aeroplan miles. But... we are taking BA (YYZ - LHR -FCO -VCE-LGW -YYZ) in October, AA (YYZ -MIA-EZE -SCL (LAN) - MIA -YYZ) in January/February ... It would be nice if BA & AA would recognize one another and let us combine our two previous flights (but so far not across the Atlantic!!!)

Air Miles in Canada is, as I understand it, not a frequent flyer scheme. Rather, it's mostly a shopping loyalty scheme, where one of the rewards (probably the main one) that you can get is "free" flights. In contrast, credit for actual airline revenue flying usually goes only into frequent flyer schemes. So the chances are that you haven't got any choice but to have at least one other frequent flyer scheme into which to put your flying earn.

 

As far as I know, all of your flights would fall outside the carve-out, so that you should be able to earn AA miles for all of those flights, including the BA trans-Atlantics. It's flights from the US to Europe that are caught by the carve-out. However, you should check carefully to see how many miles you'd earn in each scheme (ie AA and BA) for those flights to get an idea of which would be better for your circumstances.

[Globaliser]

When you take Air Canada, you can choose to credit your miles to a UA MP account which I believe has a better redemption level than Aeroplan.

The only fly in this ointment is how long Mileage Plus - or, more accurately, United Airlines will remain in existence. In the last few weeks, a big vulture has already circled and landed, in the form of Continental claiming a place in the Star Alliance in order to replace UA as the big American member when UA goes under.

 

I have this dilemma - sitting on a small heap of largely unusable UA miles, and trying to top them up with a credit card to a level at which I can get something decent for them. But it's a race - will I get there before the miles all vanish into thin air? Life can be so exciting.

[nho9504]

The only fly in this ointment is how long Mileage Plus - or, more accurately, United Airlines will remain in existence. In the last few weeks, a big vulture has already circled and landed, in the form of Continental claiming a place in the Star Alliance in order to replace UA as the big American member when UA goes under.

 

I have this dilemma - sitting on a small heap of largely unusable UA miles, and trying to top them up with a credit card to a level at which I can get something decent for them. But it's a race - will I get there before the miles all vanish into thin air? Life can be so exciting.

 

Here Here,

 

I am in the same boat as you do. My shiny Chase UA Platinum Business card just arrived yesterday. That should add 20K to the account, but I may still need a few Ks to get something decent. (I am not talking about the generic domestic award). At least we used a good pile of it on NZ premium business last year for a 40day downunder trip covering South Island and Oz.

[SelectSys]

But I'm not holding my breath ...

 

Virgin is starting up their protest engine again. Will the "no way BA/AA" signs be back on the aircraft this time with an IB appended to the end?

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/07/03/ba.virgin.ap/index.html

[auntdot]

As far as I know, all of your flights would fall outside the carve-out, so that you should be able to earn AA miles for all of those flights, including the BA trans-Atlantics. It's flights from the US to Europe that are caught by the carve-out. However, you should check carefully to see how many miles you'd earn in each scheme (ie AA and BA) for those flights to get an idea of which would be better for your circumstances.

 

After much time, begging, sending of flowers etc :D we find that we cannot use our TransAtlantic BA flight to earn miles with AA! AA said it was only US departures that didn;t count; BA said no transatlantic could be used because it was a competing route. So at this point, I guess we are best to take the European portion of our BA miles and continue to try and book AA as we have for South America (and likely will for Australia)

 

Many thanks for your advice and help to the novices in this 'travel by air' business! Guess now we can only hope there is a BA/AA/IB merger down the line!!

 

Dot

[greatam]

After much time, begging, sending of flowers etc :D we find that we cannot use our TransAtlantic BA flight to earn miles with AA! AA said it was only US departures that didn;t count; BA said no transatlantic could be used because it was a competing route. So at this point, I guess we are best to take the European portion of our BA miles and continue to try and book AA as we have for South America (and likely will for Australia)

 

Many thanks for your advice and help to the novices in this 'travel by air' business! Guess now we can only hope there is a BA/AA/IB merger down the line!!

 

Dot

 

BA (or wherever you got the info) gave you incorrect info. Your Canadian origination for a flight on BA over the pond will give you AA miles. Just put your AA account number in your reservation. SAVE your boarding passes. IF the miles don't post within 30 days after you return from your trip, AA has a web form for mileage credit. You can also call Aadvantage to get mileage credit.

 

For some reason, BA is NOT very good at crediting miles to AA accounts, even with a first or business class ticket. So just be prepared, SAVE your boarding passes and you should get mileage credit just fine.

[nho9504]

AA is correct. BUT you need to make sure you AA number attached to your BA flights, AND keep your boarding pass.

 

Chances are, you will need the boarding pass later to get AA miles. BA has been known being very "forgetful" in posting eligible AA miles.

[auntdot]

You are all great to provide this information. I will keep the boarding passes and follow up for sure when we return in November. We're talking about 8880 miles! So nothing to sneeze at!

 

The rep at AA said we had to get BA to credit the miles, so I didn't think AA could do that for us. The BA rep I had checked with their 'products' division and came back to say the 'T' fare code ticket in Premium Economy could not earn AA credits, only the 'Y' fare code for the European legs.

 

We have given our AA numbers to BA; maybe we should cancel our BA Executive Club numbers and only leave the AA numbers?? Would that help ensure we get the credit??

 

Mille grazie!!

Dot

[Globaliser]

The BA rep I had checked with their 'products' division and came back to say the 'T' fare code ticket in Premium Economy could not earn AA credits, only the 'Y' fare code for the European legs.

Principle number one in the airline world: the frequent flyer department is the generally the most inefficient customer-facing department in the entire airline.

 

AAdvantage is perfectly clear about this: booking class T earns you 110% of flown miles, with 1.5 EQM per flown mile.

We have given our AA numbers to BA; maybe we should cancel our BA Executive Club numbers and only leave the AA numbers?? Would that help ensure we get the credit??

If you do not want any credit going to your BA account, then you should definitely get the BA numbers taken out. You should try to ensure that the only FF account number in the booking is your AA number.

 

The only exception is if you are in a higher tier in the BA scheme than in the AA scheme. If that is so, then you don't want to make the switch until you are at the airport.

[nho9504]

You are all great to provide this information. I will keep the boarding passes and follow up for sure when we return in November. We're talking about 8880 miles! So nothing to sneeze at!

 

The rep at AA said we had to get BA to credit the miles, so I didn't think AA could do that for us. The BA rep I had checked with their 'products' division and came back to say the 'T' fare code ticket in Premium Economy could not earn AA credits, only the 'Y' fare code for the European legs.

 

We have given our AA numbers to BA; maybe we should cancel our BA Executive Club numbers and only leave the AA numbers?? Would that help ensure we get the credit??

 

Mille grazie!!

Dot

 

Do what Global suggested. If you dont have any BA tier, you are better off to replace your BA number by your AA number.

 

If you can make sure the AA numbers are on your boarding passes, then you probably would see your AA miles posted automatically some weeks post your flights. If your BPs showed BA numbers, then you are facing a looooong battle to get BA reverse it and send the miles to AA. Dont let the BA check-in agents fool you when they said unable to change BA number to AA - insist you want to see it on your BP to ensure the miles would go to their intended accounts.

 

Good Luck.

[Globaliser]

If your BPs showed BA numbers, then you are facing a looooong battle to get BA reverse it and send the miles to AA. Dont let the BA check-in agents fool you when they said unable to change BA number to AA - insist you want to see it on your BP to ensure the miles would go to their intended accounts.

I can't emphasise how good this advice is. You must make sure that your boarding passes show your AA numbers. But most agents these days are quite good at ensuring that any other FF numbers are deleted from the booking, other than the one you want to credit to.

[auntdot]

Again, thank you Globaliser, nho9504 and greatam! I didn't even know that your FF number would appear on a boarding pass! We are so naive!

 

We've sent a letter to BA to cancel membership; our AA number now appears on 'Manage Your Booking' (thanks to the rep I spoke with over the telephone yesterday) so hopefully by the time we fly all will be in order. I am planning to print our BPs here at home 24 hrs before the first leg, so I'll see what's on it!)

 

You are so generous with your time and good advice. Many, many thanks!

 

Dot

[nho9504]

Again, thank you Globaliser, nho9504 and greatam! I didn't even know that your FF number would appear on a boarding pass! We are so naive!

 

We've sent a letter to BA to cancel membership; our AA number now appears on 'Manage Your Booking' (thanks to the rep I spoke with over the telephone yesterday) so hopefully by the time we fly all will be in order. I am planning to print our BPs here at home 24 hrs before the first leg, so I'll see what's on it!)

 

You are so generous with your time and good advice. Many, many thanks!

 

Dot

 

If AA numbers show up on your reservation, you should be good to go.

 

No need to cancel BA membership - you may find it HANDY, when in the future you want to look up Award Seat Availability of Partner Airlines when you try to use AA miles. AA own website would not show such info, other than AA's own planes. However, you can log in your BA account and check if there is any BA award seats available for One World Partner (ditto, AA Miles). BA would show only BA flights if BA serves the routes, if BA does not serve the routes, BA would show other OW partners.

 

We have 0 BA miles in our accounts, but we keep the BA memberships, for this purpose. ditto for QF program.