I'm not sure I "get" formal night

[kakalina]

. If I had realized before booking this cruise how strongly other HAL patrons would feel about it, I might have looked for another vacation solution. It is true that on Carnival or RCCL or Princess, the same issues arise, but the other passengers have been much more noncommittal about it. Not until I got to the HAL board on CC did I understand that we will not fit in...ever.

 

What you seem to be missing is that the people on this board constitute such a teeny tiny minority onboard that it is absurd to think they in any way reflect the majority of the passengers.

Sometimes we may come across as the be all and end all of decisions on others leisure time. Not true.

 

You will find when you are on board that the vast majority of people are busy having their own vacation and could care less what you do or wear.

 

So, don't obsess, don't worry, relax and you will have a wonderful cruise on HAL.

[Jemima]

ORT-

You will have your dinner sooner in the lido buffet than in the dining room. The wait for the first course in the dining room is more variable. If you are concerned about the time lapse between taking insulin and eating, you could inject in the dining room or lido after you are seated. I'd think a two-piece formal outfit would work well.

The men's dress code says "suit and tie or tuxedo". There is no mention of "dark".

[madelinerose]

Thank you, kakalina. ;)

 

 

What you seem to be missing is that the people on this board constitute such a teeny tiny minority onboard that it is absurd to think they in any way reflect the majority of the passengers.

 

You will find when you are on board that the vast majority of people are busy having their own vacation and could care less what you do or wear.

 

So, don't obsess, don't worry, relax and you will have a wonderful cruise on HAL.

[numbersix]

Admiring glances from every woman in the room.

 

 

Thank you, thank you, dear Lady!!

 

You have made my day!

 

Your Honor...I rest my case!!!:)

[numbersix]

On 15 cruises we've never missed dinner in the dining room, and there has never been a problem with DH's formal night attire, but we have also never sailed HAL. Our upcoming HAL cruise was a replacement for one on a different line that we had to cancel. We discussed this with the TA, and we were told it should not be a problem--and I'm confident it won't be for the cruise line. I have already contacted the special needs people and we're working on a list of things.

 

Maybe not everyone's case is as much a catch-22 as ours, but I really believe that the majority of people who don't dress formally for dinner aren't doing it out of spite or a desire to be disrespectful to anyone. It saddens me that there are such zealots on both sides of the issue that we have created winners and losers. Even if I have a good reason for doing what I do, I can't explain it to the other passengers on my cruise, and they will go on assuming that I'm selfish and disrespectful--and communicating their disapproval in hurtful ways. No one likes to be disliked--even by strangers. So I am a loser on HAL, even if I "get my way."

 

As the lady with the formally dressed and well-behaved baby said, the looks can make you very uncomfortable, even as you try to find a way to balance your needs with other people's expectations. So maybe an earlier poster was right; it is about acceptance to some extent. If I had realized before booking this cruise how strongly other HAL patrons would feel about it, I might have looked for another vacation solution. It is true that on Carnival or RCCL or Princess, the same issues arise, but the other passengers have been much more noncommittal about it. Not until I got to the HAL board on CC did I understand that we will not fit in...ever.

 

Teresa:

 

1) I believe the Lido has table service at dinner.

 

2) Nonetheless, we would welcome you and DH at our HAL table...anytime.

 

You will be fine, and I'm sure you will love HAL...have a great cruise!

[sapper1]

Thank you, thank you, dear Lady!!

 

You have made my day!

 

Your Honor...I rest my case!!!:)

 

You have given me a nice chuckle!!:)

[jackdiamond]

Melodie, your observations are right on the money.

[navybankerteacher]

DH cannot swallow with the shirt button closed and tie on; after a couple hours he begins to have breathing problems from the constriction. Since he is totally blind, and I am diabetic, we require table service in the dining room for dinner. He cannot go through a buffet line, and I cannot guide him and carry both trays in the buffet. Two dinners do not fit on a single tray. Normally, I would go through the lines twice while he waits at a table, but at dinner, my medcation timing is such that I don't have time to do that. I MUST eat or I will have a low blood sugar event and pass out--which can become a serious medical emergency. Under those circumstances, while I'm sure I would get treated, no one would know that blind DH is sitting somewhere else in the restaurant having no idea what had happened to me and no way to do anything about it.

 

DH is also unable to wear wool due to an allergy, which is the only dark

suit material available to us.

 

The fact that the jacket has long sleeves is also an issue, but I think it would be less claustrophobic for him if it wasn't for the constriction in the neck from the shirt and tie. We bought a larger size jacket and had it altered a bit, so that the sleeves would be less constraining. But the wool material and the heat it traps only contributes to the shortness of breath, and the feeling of being "bound" escalates the anxiety already inherent in being unable to see and surrounded by obstacles.

 

He has worn and does wear a dark suit when it is really necessary and when there is no eating involved. But no one should have to feel like it's necessary to be sick in order to get dinner while on vacation.

 

I cannot wear heels because of foot problems, but luckily, the women's dress code is not so strictly stated that I can't wear flats with my evening gown. And, every color is open to me, which is good, since I look terrible in most dark colors. No, my problem with formal wear is finding a location to inject myself that I can reach and is not covered with clothes. What I usually have to do is give the injection while I'm dressing, but then I'm on a limited timeframe for getting to the food. Accounting for the time to finish dressing, get from room to dining venue, and wait in line to be seated, there is real danger in trying to do the buffet.

 

We don't have dinner in our cabin because we need a table and actual chairs for DH to orient himself. These have to be removable so they are not a trip hazard at other times in the cabin. We've never been able to afford a suite, and never found a cruise line that could accommodate bringing in a table and chairs for dinner along with the food. (There is also the issue of the phone list and room service menu not being accessible, and having to come up with a cash tip, but those are only minor problems, since I am usually there to read.)

 

On 15 cruises we've never missed dinner in the dining room, and there has never been a problem with DH's formal night attire, but we have also never sailed HAL. Our upcoming HAL cruise was a replacement for one on a different line that we had to cancel. We discussed this with the TA, and we were told it should not be a problem--and I'm confident it won't be for the cruise line. I have already contacted the special needs people and we're working on a list of things.

 

Maybe not everyone's case is as much a catch-22 as ours, but I really believe that the majority of people who don't dress formally for dinner aren't doing it out of spite or a desire to be disrespectful to anyone. It saddens me that there are such zealots on both sides of the issue that we have created winners and losers. Even if I have a good reason for doing what I do, I can't explain it to the other passengers on my cruise, and they will go on assuming that I'm selfish and disrespectful--and communicating their disapproval in hurtful ways. No one likes to be disliked--even by strangers. So I am a loser on HAL, even if I "get my way."

 

As the lady with the formally dressed and well-behaved baby said, the looks can make you very uncomfortable, even as you try to find a way to balance your needs with other people's expectations. So maybe an earlier poster was right; it is about acceptance to some extent. If I had realized before booking this cruise how strongly other HAL patrons would feel about it, I might have looked for another vacation solution. It is true that on Carnival or RCCL or Princess, the same issues arise, but the other passengers have been much more noncommittal about it. Not until I got to the HAL board on CC did I understand that we will not fit in...ever.

 

With all due respect for people with health conditions, I find the conditions you cite to be truly exceptional:

 

1)There are many dark suits which contain no wool -- ever hear of polyester?

 

2) A generously loose collar can be buttoned and leave an extra couple of inches leeway.

 

3) Diabetic shock is rarely so immediate that there is not time to carry a tray to a table -- orare we to understand that you ALWAYS have an emergency snack in hand - even throughout the night?

 

4) No formal night ever suggested a dark dress, or one which covered all injectable skin areas, or even heels.

 

You have made a touching argument but, at the risk of sounding cynical, I believe it is more deserving of a fiction award that a pass to wear whatever you want.

[dan40]

With all due respect for people with health conditions, I find the conditions you cite to be truly exceptional:

 

1)There are many dark suits which contain no wool -- ever hear of polyester?

 

2) A generously loose collar can be buttoned and leave an extra couple of inches leeway.

 

3) Diabetic shock is rarely so immediate that there is not time to carry a tray to a table -- orare we to understand that you ALWAYS have an emergency snack in hand - even throughout the night?

 

4) No formal night ever suggested a dark dress, or one which covered all injectable skin areas, or even heels.

 

You have made a touching argument but, at the risk of sounding cynical, I believe it is more deserving of a fiction award that a pass to wear whatever you want.

 

Who do you think you are? Me?:D

 

Dan

[OTRlady]

With all due respect for people with health conditions, I find the conditions you cite to be truly exceptional:

 

1)There are many dark suits which contain no wool -- ever hear of polyester?

 

2) A generously loose collar can be buttoned and leave an extra couple of inches leeway.

 

3) Diabetic shock is rarely so immediate that there is not time to carry a tray to a table -- orare we to understand that you ALWAYS have an emergency snack in hand - even throughout the night?

 

4) No formal night ever suggested a dark dress, or one which covered all injectable skin areas, or even heels.

 

You have made a touching argument but, at the risk of sounding cynical, I believe it is more deserving of a fiction award that a pass to wear whatever you want.

 

Polyester - Not in DH's size, and that material is not considered "formal" for the types of events that really require DH to wear a suit. It isn't even sold in the stores where we can get formal wear.

 

Collar - The point is that a collar with that much leeway on DH would be about 5" too large on either side of the body and not long enough to stay tucked in. The bottom button frequently doesn't reach to the waistband, so the shirt keeps gapping open over the stomach. Have never been able to get custom tailoring on a shirt to look and fit right.

 

Diabetic shock - If you aren't diabetic, then please don't comment on how immediately problems occur; it is very individual. Low blood sugar events are more common than you think and have happened to me in a matter of seconds. My injectable is not insulin, so it has to be taken up to 1 hour before meals, but not after I start eating. It works more quickly than insulin when properly administered. I can do belly or back of legs myself, but cannot reach other locations unaided. With all due respect, I would prefer not to ask strangers to do the injection for me. Cocktail dresses and evening gowns with pantyhose do not allow for injecting at the table. I do carry an emergency snack at all times, but it would not necessarily prevent the event, and the medication REQUIRES a full meal afterward to avoid other effects. I had understood that Lido dining still requires buffet line for starters, and we have always had to get our own drinks there. That means four trips for me, before sitting. When low blood sugar comes on, the first symptoms that are noticeable are weakness and confusion. It is VERY easy to drop a tray or drink, or suddenly not know where you are--even if you don't actually pass out.

 

I never said that formal nights suggested dark dresses or heels. I was saying that it's lucky women have more choices of formal outfits than men, though most interpretations of "formal" for ladies tend to assume heels. But it IS suggested that we wear cocktail dresses or evening gowns; pants suits, business suits, and the other permutations of "formal" that have evolved on the women's side seem to be perfectly fine, while men who get creative with the "dark suit and tie or tux" get turned away for not being formally dressed. Seems like a double standard to me.

 

Look, I just gave the answer that someone else asked for. While I can accept that you and many others don't consider it a worthy "excuse" for not dressing formally, I think it is rude and disrespectful of you to call me a liar.

 

I only started out to give one possible reason why people who don't dress for formal night are not necessarily doing it to ruin the social fabric of a cruise. It isn't about the rules, the other passengers, or getting away with something. It is about very personal situations in which each person makes a decision that is right for them. I did suggest that there might be minor adjustments that could be made to the policy that would make it easier for some of us to be part of the "accepted" group, and I apologize if the idea offends you. The good news is that adjustments are unlikely to happen, and you can go on maligning people like me as long as you want.

[Roz]

Sheila,

 

You'll enjoy your HAL cruise. There will be a cross-section of the population onboard. 99% of them won't be arrogant.

 

Roz

[WhansaMi]

Sheila,

 

You'll enjoy your HAL cruise. There will be a cross-section of the population onboard. 99% of them won't be arrogant.

 

Roz

 

Thanks, Roz, I hope so. My husband and I will be celebrating our anniversary aboard the Rotterdam. We'll be visiting places his grandparents took him nearly 35 years ago. I'm quite excited about it.

 

Sheila

[pipedreams62]

But unfortunately

 

 

[WhansaMi]

Don't worry, there are plenty of normal people just trying to enjoy their cruise as well. Fortunately, since this is your first time on HAL you won't get stampeded by the Mariners breaking down the doors and pushing and shoving each other to get into the return cruiser's party. It was quite ugly last time I was on the Veendam, therefore I never have been back to a Mariner party held during the day. That is my complaint with the HAL regulars.

 

That's good to hear. :-) I'm just one of those normal people. My husband (who likes to get dressed up) guilts me into wearing the hose and the dress at formal night; but I can tell you, I don't notice what a single other person wears. Frankly, it doesn't matter to me. In my little world, what folks wear to a dinner --- or on the elevator going to the spa (... yes, I've now had time to read that thread as well) isn't very important, and is a lot less important than, shall I say it, the content of their character -- and the quality of their conversational skills.

 

And, no... just in case anyone wonders, I've never worn a beach cover-up to lunch or dinner, and I take my robe to the spa, more out of modesty than any desire to impress anyone.

 

I'm sorry that the lady with the health problems has already taken her trip. But, if there is anyone else on the Rotterdam at the end of the month with us, and you don't want to spend your time and energy critiquing what other people are wearing on their backs, you are welcome at our table!

 

Sheila

[NHBob]

But unfortunately

 

 

 

You are so right. And even if it should die, it won't be long before somebody starts another thread on the same subject! Sort of like the never-ending threads on As You Wish Dining.

 

Bob

[abcten]

... and I didn't really think of it this way until one member of our group asked, "Other than everyone getting dressed up ... what's different?" You're still crammed into the same noisy dining room, the menu is basically the same, there's no special entertainment or anything like that, no champagne toasts like you might have at a banquet. On the 2nd formal night, they put white covers on the chairs but that was the only change. I guess it's just a holdover from the days of the Titanic and the great ocean liners when everyone dressed up for dinner all the time. I can see why it's probably on the way out.

 

I think it is just a holdover from yesteryear. I will slowly wither and die.

[navybankerteacher]

I think it is just a holdover from yesteryear. I will slowly wither and die.

 

I hope you meant "It will slowly wither and die"; and not what you actually said.

[hammybee]

I hope you meant "It will slowly wither and die"; and not what you actually said.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[abcten]

I hope you meant "It will slowly wither and die"; and not what you actually said.

 

LOL. Actually both will happen.

[numbersix]

Sort of like the never-ending threads on As You Wish Dining.

 

Bob

 

Which reminds me...what's up with that "As You Wish Dining", anyhow!!! Can't everyone just eat at the same time (that of my choosing)?!;)

 

BTW, NHBob: Only two weeks until our family vacation in your small-but-mighty state! We've been vacationing at Wallis Sands in Rye for four generations now. Can't wait. No tuxedos, either!!