NCL to Cheap to provide Conditioner

[mactrio]

Anytime we have traveled I'd go to Wal Mart and buy Pantene in travel sized bottles ($.50 to $.99) and I've got several of them so now I just refill them before each trip. I do the same w/ liquid bath soap (dove or caress) and with mouthwash (scope) small bottles that barely take up any room. I have mini's of my facial cleansers & makeup, I doubt that I'll even 'fix' my hair while we are on the Spirit. I'll wash it, pull it into a ponytail & slap a hat on my head and be out the door in 20 minutes.

Lack of conditioner will not bethe cause of a ruined trip for me.

thanks for the heads up about the lack of lotions & stuff, I'll just add it to my suitcase.

[CanadianTwosome]

All I was trying to point out is that you were quick to defend one nasty person while condemning those of us who reacted... that is NOT fair, in my opinion, so if 'fairness' is what you're looking for... well, I think I've made my point a little clearer now. :)

 

You're right, it is unfair to condemn only one party in an argument where both are being nasty. As in most cases, both sides have valid points. I really like these boards though and I hope you can agree with me that just because one person is nasty doesn't mean everyone should be nasty back to them. There was talk about the board "losing" credibility/respect for this or that, I don't think it was so true. But I do think that if everyone resorts to nastiness (including longtime respected CC board members) that then the board does lose some credibility. I haven't been using CC for very long. But for me when I saw one person act nasty, I just excuse it as ignorace, lack of knowledge or lack of understanding. But when I see the whole board get nasty and mean, I can't help but think everyone shouldn't sink to her level (including me because I dislike those nasty nasty comments that seem so unfounded just as much as the next guy...and more often than I like to admit I certainly do sink down below where I should). If she was nasty on purpose and out to hurt someone, then I would even more (than I somewhat already do) agree with your feelings. But if she was only nasty because she is reacting to what to her was a terrible expeience (even if she is reacting irrantionally) then I just feel like it would be more beneficial to these boards, it's readers and to her to simply explain to her nicely the error of her ways.

As for being 'cheap'... is your local gym 'cheap'? Mine doesn't supply shampoo OR conditioner, even though they know I'll be showering...

 

I fully disagree with her that NCL is cheap. I think NCL is great. But I have no problem whatsoever with her saying she thinks they are cheap. So my other point besides not dropping to her level, was that I don't see why people act so mad that she gave her opinion. Her opinion may be totally stupid and she may have said it nastily, but she didn't say it about anyone on here. Her opinion also doesn't mean people who love NCL are stupid. I'm basically an outsider here on CC and don't have a single bad opinion of any cruise line, so I am a pretty nonbiased point of view and it really seemed to me like everyone just didn't want to know her opinion. Your gym is not cheap, I doubt. I don't think the word "cheap" can really apply to a business. If a business develops a reputation for being "Cheap" the real term should be a bad business strategy. They need to keep their clients perceiving their business as a quality business. If one person in a thousand thinks they are "cheap" then that's a pretty good business strategy. If they started skimping to the point that 100 people in a thousand thought they were cheap, then they'd have a less good business strategy. Clearly NCL had this thought process. They decided that only one in ten thousand will care about complimentary conditioner. That doesn't make that one person crazy or ungrounded. It just makes them unique.

 

I think 'cheap' is excessive. Definitely agree! Nor is "Cheap" the proper word to use because it's the goal of every business to operate as cheaply as possible while still mantaining quality and getting the biggest profit. But again, I don't see why it matters if one woman thinks they are cheap and says so.

All companies in business make decisions based on their bottom line. If NCL can be called 'cheap' because they've chosen not to provide conditioner, then EVERY other business in the world can be called 'cheap' as well for some reason, including ALL cruiselines.

 

We agree on this. All businesses are "Cheap". Every single business in the world wants to spend less and make bigger profit while keeping quality.

That's exactly what I pointed out earlier. NCL (and several other mainstream cruiselines) is cheaper than some others when it comes to conditioner, but in other areas it is far superior! NCL is totally not "cheap" in the derogatory sense of the word.

I apologize if I sound harsh. I'm just REALLY REALLY tired of people being nasty and rude and then expressing shock when others react to it.

 

I understand. Some people really do just seem to go on these seemingly totally unfounded rants about how terrible some travel destination/hotel/cruiseline is. It is very annoying.

 

Oh, and if she is going to claim they are to this, to that, or to whatever, she could at least spell too correctly, with two o's. (just pickin on you CocoKai!).

 

I like you. I think we really do agree on more than it might appear on the surface. I actually do try to give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time, but I guess I've become a bit jaded here with people who make no effort whatsoever to actually 'discuss' their point and just launch an aggessive attack. I just don't believe, based on the OP's other posts and what she's said in this thread, that she had good intentions, which to me makes a BIG difference. I've seen many people post 'in anger' and it appears fairly obvious to me (and most others from the responses I've seen) that they are emotional. Check out some of the customer service threads! :p To me, however, there is a BIG difference between 'angry' or 'emotional' and 'malicious'. From my perspective, the OP intended to badmouth NCL, not just express disappointment.

 

Back to the 'cheap' thing, you're right. If someone chooses to use that term, whether I think it's excessive or not, it's their choice. I think though - as illustrated by the responses in this thread - that it tends to reflect a LOT more on the 'user' of the term than the target of the insult... :)

 

To, too and two; there, they're and their... at least they're homonyms. One I've seen that puzzles me more than most is are and our. I don't even pronounce those two words the same way!!! Where I live, 'are' rhymes with 'car' or 'bar' and 'our' rhymes with 'hour' or 'shower'... :confused:

[Cosmopolitan]

I didn't pack conditioner for Alaska because I was really trying to save space for heavy coats, etc. Shampoo and Conditioner is a given ammenity and I too like my own, but it was a sacrafice for ease. I just want others to know that NCL is an exception to the rule.

 

A good laugh on a Monday is always appreciated:D

 

Did the heavy coats have pockets that you could pack a small bottle of conditioner (that did not fit in your purse or carry-on) in?

So sad that you had to "sacrAfice" (?) your conditioner for ease:confused:

 

How lucky for you that this problem(?) prompted a post and God help you when you have some "REAL" problems to deal with in life:eek:

[Alzaman]

Personally I think eveyone has a right to express their opinion. I really dont care what someone says if it seems unreasonable. Actually I am considered cheap just ask my daughter. 50% off is my favorite price. Free champagne at the Art Auction .... Ill be there, 2 for 1 coupons hey thats for me, margarita tasting for 10 bucks... you betcha. So if you find youself on the 9/6/08 cruise on the star and cheap offends you, avoid the clown in 11128 that will be me.

See you on the High Seas

[nicknack]

I've never really understood. I always wash my hair with my bar of soap. So what am I missing out on by not using shampoo or conditioner? Of course, I'm already going bald; maybe that's got something to do with it?

[soccermommy]

This concept of thinking about someone's experience is taught in counseling, usually marital counseling. They taught it to us at a premarital weekend. No matter how crazy your husband/wife sounds, their point of view is valid and needs to be dealt with realistically because it was their experience.

 

I try to understand if the poster really had a problem, is just venting, or just trolling. And in the OP's case, I wanted to know what the problems were (it was hard to tell, outside of the conditioner!). But, the more I learn from these boards, it's getting easier to spot the trolls....in 2 separate threads, I've asked essentially the same thing, what was the problem and what, if anything, did you do about it. Still waiting for an answer!

[newmexicoNita]

DizzyDallas: Four Seasons provides L'Occitane. I don't normally purchase it for my hair but I like the product. They also always have conditioner.

If you are comparing a cruise ship with "Four Seasons" you would be happier on Crystal or even Oceania. The best you will probably do on a mass market cruise ship is a combined shampoo/conditioner. For me that is fine, hubby prefers his own so he brings the sample size with him even when packing for Alaska.

 

Don't you think your approach was a little off base, making you sound like a spoiled brat? If you were just trying to let future passengers know there was no conditioner could you have worded the subject something like: tips when cruising NCL?

Nita

[Sea Hound]

 

Don't feed the troll!

 

Sea Hound:D

[mpk218]

I Hate NCL , there the WORST. Our cabin Steward made one of those dumb towel animals and put my sunglasses

on it . HE GOT A FINGER PRINT right on my lense .

It ruined my WHOLE cruise...:mad:

[XtremeCruzer]

 

I didn't actually think anyone was expressing 'friendly opinions' either... I thought we were all reacting to a NASTY post - which I had explained. All I was trying to point out is that you were quick to defend one nasty person while condemning those of us who reacted... that is NOT fair, in my opinion, so if 'fairness' is what you're looking for... well, I think I've made my point a little clearer now. :)

 

As for being 'cheap'... is your local gym 'cheap'? Mine doesn't supply shampoo OR conditioner, even though they know I'll be showering... What about all those hotels and lines that DO supply conditioner, but it's crap that I wouldn't even consider using on my hair? Is that actually any less 'cheap' than not supplying any? I think 'cheap' is excessive. All companies in business make decisions based on their bottom line. If NCL can be called 'cheap' because they've chosen not to provide conditioner, then EVERY other business in the world can be called 'cheap' as well for some reason, including ALL cruiselines.

 

 

 

While nasty posters like to accuse people who react to their tone and accusations of doing the same to ALL negative posts, it is NOT true. As I mentioned earlier, there is currently a thread entitled 'Princess Cheerleader Sails the Gem' (thank you to Cynbar for contributing here as well) that shows what happens when someone makes their negative comments in a calm, polite, and FRIENDLY manner. EVERYONE here on Cruise Critic is here to learn from others and contribute where we can. We are interested in ALL experiences; we just prefer to have people share them with us without being NASTY.

 

You say that CC loses its validity when anyone posts something negative and 'cheerleaders' beat the poster with oars... again, this is NOT the case. People who find words like 'cheap', 'slimy', and 'pimping' offensive respond to HOW you are saying things, not WHAT you are saying. There are posts and reviews all the time in which people express things that they thought were negative, from a poor customer service encounter to being stuck on a ship that has struck a barge. The people who are nasty get nasty responses. The people who simply express themselves are generally thanked for the information and if possible, people will offer information in return, depending on the discussion. In my opinion, it is posts like yours that 'lose validity' due to the tone and exaggerated slurs you used to describe things.

 

I apologize if I sound harsh. I'm just REALLY REALLY tired of people being nasty and rude and then expressing shock when others react to it.

 

You reference "all other cruiselines" as being cheap ....I was curious as to how many cruise you have been on and with which "other cruiselines" :confused: I just need a point of reference here.

[rskalko]

Where I live, 'are' rhymes with 'car' or 'bar' and 'our' rhymes with 'hour' or 'shower'... :confused:

 

Same here. ;)

[CocoKai]

I wasn't going to post again but I thought about it over the night and you are right...I should have worded the intro to my post differently even though that is exactly how I feel.

 

First of all, my review was not pulled or censored. I believe we had a internet glitch at the time I sent it and poof. If posted, it would not have been pulled. There were positives to balance negatives.

 

Secondly, I am not Sixsticks so you can do away with the conspiracy theories or a troll. Just a consumer who purchased a product that was disappointing.

 

Third, I am angry at NCL. I was responsible for planning this trip for a party of 7. I researched and researched and based my opinion to go with NCL to ALaska because I felt the "freestyle" concept would work well with this itinerary. I listened to 6 people complain the entire trip. Not with Alaska but with the cruise and my nerves were frazzled. One of the people was a first time cruiser so I guess I felt some responsibility for their first and last cruise experience.

 

As far as NCL being cheap, literally, it may be in Carribean destinations, but it wasn't cheap for Alaska. In fact, the itinerary priced out about the same as HAL, but I thought it would be fun to try something new. In total, the 7 spent about $13,000 for 1 week and we were in AF's. Obviously, that doesn't included air, excursions, specialty dining, etc.

 

The lack of conditioner was just the cherry on the top of the cake. When I inquired about getting a little bottle, thinking they may have it but just don't supply unless asked, I was directed to the spa to buy a $20 bottle. It was just another thing to buy, another sell.

 

Not all 2400 people that were on the ship come to Cruise Critic to share their stories, but a lot of them shared our same feelings. Whether they were peole we met in the pool, martini bar or sat next to at Teppenyaki, NCL wasn't for them but it shouldn't be for everyone. No business can serve all.

 

Unlike Sixsticks, I'm not on a mission to topple NCL but I can understand his anger when things topple for the consumer. I believe his group experienced all that he claimed. On the other hand, our room Stewards were great (I don't need a towel animal everynight), specialty restaurants were fabulous, bowling was a blast and the Park Ranger they brought aboard in Glacier Bay was wonderful as well.

 

Just pack your own conditioner.

[gszach]

 

You reference "all other cruiselines" as being cheap ....I was curious as to how many cruise you have been on and with which "other cruiselines" :confused: I just need a point of reference here.

 

I don't mean cheap in the derogatory sense as CanadianTwosome will vouch for. I mean it in a business sense. It is the goal of every business to operate as cheaply as possible while still maintaining quality in order to obtain the largest profits possible. Every cruise line, in their board room, has discussions about how to make operations cheaper and keep the same quality. That is the point of business. That is all I meant. Actually, it was CanadianTwosome that mentioned "every cruise line" too. The only point was that every cruise line is a business indeed and wants to maximize profit, of course. I didn't want to imply anything derogatory at all. For the record, I stated several times that I think NCL is not cheap at all and I think they are a great cruise line. I have only been on two cruises. I have said nothing whatsoever that is negative about NCL. So if that is what you understood, I must have not explained myself clearly enough. As CanadianTwosome and I have been discussing, cheap is an excessive phrase and not the proper word to use towards a business. The better term would be a "poor business strategy" if many people perceive them as cheap. If only a few perceive them as cheap, then they have a good business strategy. Cheap implies something "personal". It's not personal, it's business. In this case, only one woman considered NCL cheap. To me, that means NCL is satisfying their customers and has a very good business strategy.

[rskalko]

I wasn't going to post again but I thought about it over the night and you are right...I should have worded the intro to my post differently even though that is exactly how I feel.

 

First of all, my review was not pulled or censored. I believe we had a internet glitch at the time I sent it and poof. If posted, it would not have been pulled. There were positives to balance negatives.

 

Secondly, I am not Sixsticks so you can do away with the conspiracy theories or a troll. Just a consumer who purchased a product that was disappointing.

 

Third, I am angry at NCL. I was responsible for planning this trip for a party of 7. I researched and researched and based my opinion to go with NCL to ALaska because I felt the "freestyle" concept would work well with this itinerary. I listened to 6 people complain the entire trip. Not with Alaska but with the cruise and my nerves were frazzled. One of the people was a first time cruiser so I guess I felt some responsibility for their first and last cruise experience.

 

As far as NCL being cheap, literally, it may be in Carribean destinations, but it wasn't cheap for Alaska. In fact, the itinerary priced out about the same as HAL, but I thought it would be fun to try something new. In total, the 7 spent about $13,000 for 1 week and we were in AF's. Obviously, that doesn't included air, excursions, specialty dining, etc.

 

The lack of conditioner was just the cherry on the top of the cake. When I inquired about getting a little bottle, thinking they may have it but just don't supply unless asked, I was directed to the spa to buy a $20 bottle. It was just another thing to buy, another sell.

 

Not all 2400 people that were on the ship come to Cruise Critic to share their stories, but a lot of them shared our same feelings. Whether they were peole we met in the pool, martini bar or sat next to at Teppenyaki, NCL wasn't for them but it shouldn't be for everyone. No business can serve all.

 

Unlike Sixsticks, I'm not on a mission to topple NCL but I can understand his anger when things topple for the consumer. I believe his group experienced all that he claimed. On the other hand, our room Stewards were great (I don't need a towel animal everynight), specialty restaurants were fabulous, bowling was a blast and the Park Ranger they brought aboard in Glacier Bay was wonderful as well.

 

Just pack your own conditioner.

 

I think you've made your peace and hopefully people can accept that.

[gszach]

I should have worded the intro to my post differently even though that is exactly how I feel.

 

I don't know exactly how I feel now. On one hand I understand the whole feeling of being annoyed with people being too picky. But on the other hand, if she thinks NCL sucked then she should be able to post that feeling without expecting personal attacks. If she thinks they are cheap she should be able to post that without a personal attack. I do not agree with her feelings, for the record.

 

Here's my big thought:

Please think about the other extreme. If someone came onto cruisecritic and posted "Norwegian Cruise Line is the greatest cruiseline and they are the opposite of cheap completely" it would be accepted finely. That person would not be told they are great, that they are brilliant, or that they are so easy to please. But when someone comes on and says the opposite of that, they get told they are bad, stupid, picky...etc. My point: Crazy, non-average, reviews happen in BOTH directions, good and bad. But only the bad get attacked as CocoKai did. In the interest of being fair (attention CanadianTwosome) from now on when someone goes overboard (no pun intended :) ) in the positive direction in a review we should start attacking them too!

[gszach]

 

I like you. I think we really do agree on more than it might appear on the surface. ... To me, however, there is a BIG difference between 'angry' or 'emotional' and 'malicious'.

 

Back to the 'cheap' thing, you're right. If someone chooses to use that term, whether I think it's excessive or not, it's their choice. I think though - as illustrated by the responses in this thread - that it tends to reflect a LOT more on the 'user' of the term than the target of the insult... :)

 

 

We do agree on a lot. Infact, as I have been typing all along it kept frustrating me that I had to keep thinking "I know what he means. Yeah that's annoying when people act that way...". We also have a similarly calm and logical debating style. Thanks for the entertainment. :)

 

You are SOOO correct about reflecting on the user rather than the target. That's why I don't think we, as a group should sink to her level of name calling. It reflects badly on whoever is doing the name calling. Calling someone slimy because they sell jewelry is not politically acceptable in a public forum as such. Car salesmen deal with that stereotype all the time. Remember Larry on Three's Company? He was totally depicted as being a "slimy salesman."

 

One thing is for certain, those people who love Norwegian, love it deeply. that much I can clearly see!

[Sailor's Girl]

CocoKai -- My husband and I are booked on NCL to Bermuda in September, and I appreciated your heads-up about packing conditioner. I wouldn't appreciate being told to buy a $20 bottle of product in the salon, either.

 

What I find disturbing is that so many people jumped all over you for what seemed to me to be a helpful, and fairly innocuous, comment. If the response is a reflection of the kind of people (judgmental, at best) who sail on NCL, I'm beginning to wonder if we made a mistake.

 

And for the person who got on your case for not using spell check on your title-- no spell check in the world is going to pick up the difference between "to" and "too."

 

Thanks again, Coco, for sharing.

[MrPete]

All these attacks, yet does anyone know the reason why there is no conditioner? :confused:

[gszach]

And for the person who got on your case for not using spell check on your title-- no spell check in the world is going to pick up the difference between "to" and "too."

 

Thanks again' date=' Coco, for sharing.[/quote']

 

I am the one who got on her case about the spelling. But I pointed out when I said it that I was just pickin on her. I am the one that has been defending her statements, because I didn't like how she got attacked for expressing her opinion. I think since I was the only one on her side, that gives me a little room for picking on her in a fun way?

[smeyer418]

I always thought the dispensers in the showers contained shampoo/conditioner and soap. But it may have changed. If the person was in Alaska I am sure they could have brought back from a chain pharmacy a small bottle of inexpensive conditioner. This should not be a life changing event. Some times people on a cruise just have a storm cloud over them. It happens at times. If they had a friend in a suite they could have gotten one of those small bottles for free and sometimes if you ask the room steward they can find it for you....me I use snuggle for my hair(what is left of it)...after all it is conditioner too.....

[Alzaman]

All these attacks, yet does anyone know the reason why there is no conditioner? :confused:

 

Ah ha a resonable question. Actually if you inquire to the right party you will find that NCL among others have decided that the cost benifit ratio is not there. Apparently a shampoo/conditioner is satisfactory to a majority of their passangers and very few complaints are made about this issue. After all this is a people driven business so if there was a great many complaints over this issue changes would be considered. It will always be a cost benifit decision.

[CocoKai]

Sailor Girl: Thank you. For that reason, I prefer a land based vacation. Bobbing around at sea with 2400 people does provide interesting observations into mankind. You will have a wonderful time in Bermuda and enjoy the Company of your travel companion(s).

[MrPete]

Ah ha a resonable question. Actually if you inquire to the right party you will find that NCL among others have decided that the cost benifit ratio is not there. Apparently a shampoo/conditioner is satisfactory to a majority of their passangers and very few complaints are made about this issue. After all this is a people driven business so if there was a great many complaints over this issue changes would be considered. It will always be a cost benifit decision.

 

"To" bad that wasn't the simple answer in post number "to", and this thread would have just gone bye bye.

[CocoKai]

gszach: Thank you as well. You seem to be quite a rational soul. I was not offended by your spelling comment as I knew you were joking to. (did that on purpose)

[Alzaman]

"To" bad that wasn't the simple answer in post number "to", and this thread would have just gone bye bye.

to,too,two:) Thanks for the laugh