NCL vs. Princess

[WonderMan3]

Regardless of how old it was, the Sun is still a smaller ship. It does not have the same number of restaurants as the newer NCL ships. I was on the Pride of Aloha, sister ship of the Sun, and I was on the Dawn & Star. (larger ships.) The smaller NCL ships... Majesty, Dream, Sky & Sun do not give you a true sense of Freestyle. If you haven't been on the Star, Dawn, Pearl, Gem, Jewel or Jade, then you really have not experienced the best of Freestyle..

 

The only real freestyle difference between the Sun and those other ships is that they have more dining options, which is great and one of the reasons I am booking the Jade for next year. The Sun was quite nice back in 2003 though. I had no problem with the ship or number of dining choices, it was the service on board and the quality of the food in the main dining rooms and buffet that was problematic.

 

I think you have the Dream and the Dawn confused. The Dawn may be NCL's most popular ship. Very few people come off that ship with bad things to say. (I also believe that it is NCL's flagship operation.) The Dream on the other hand has had some well documented problems and is constantly the subject of negative reports on this board. Even those that love the Dream are having a hard time defending her these days. That is why she is leaving the fleet. So, you are wrong about the Dream getting good reports, even on this board..

 

Evidently you missed out on the rather heated discussions recently when my cabin mate and I posted our reviews of The Dream in which we expressed a number of problems with the service on board and found ourselves subject to numerous attacks from some very unpleasant people on this board. Many of those posts have since been removed. But there is a faction of people around here who will stridently defend any criticism of NCL and its ships to the point of insulting other posters.

 

 

 

As far as reservations are concerned, NCL actually had three different policies in place:

1.) Specialty Restaurants require a reservation for all times and these can be made up to 36 hours in advance.

2.) The Main Restaurants on each ship (2), do not accept reservations except for the following exceptions:

a.) Those in the high end (AE and above) suites, who can make reservations for anytime through the Concierge.

b.) Those who have large groups of 8 or more. Group reservations are limited to before 6:15 p.m. or after 8:00 p.m.. (no group reservations between 6:15 & 8:00.)

3.) Suite Guests can make priority reservations through their conceirge for the specialty restaurants as early as the first day... no 36 hour window for them...

 

Yes, I think it was because I was looking at booking a Villa for next year that I must have seen the reservation stuff in those threads and thought it applied to all cabins since I know that Princess does it.

 

 

Finally, I have always found the Princess Board to be one of the most friendliest boards on CC. If you think we are bad, go visit the RCCL, HAL or Celebrity Boards. I asked a simple question on the RCCL board a few months back and because it had to do with other options for formal night, I was basically told to shut up and was treated rudely. In fact, I have been told by RCCL passengers to not sail that line. I guess the rudeness that I experienced on the Explorer is just normal for regular RCCL cruisers.

I don't think anyone was attacking your views, we were just trying to clear up where you were coming from and putting it all in perspective.

 

Well, I have been encountering similar things here that you are describing on the RCCL board. The person I was responding to in this thread was basically dredging up stuff from those other threads that I mentioned above. As I said it was petty and uncalled for, but it seems to be typical behavior from certain people in this section. Clearly that doesn't apply to everyone though.

[WonderMan3]

NCL's disembarkation is still their unique feature. Even as the other lines copy the other parts of Freestyle, no one has copied the Freestyle Embarkation. (and I don't understand why... if NCL can do it, why not the other lines?)

 

I hear everyone raving about this express disembarkation but I haven't seen it work well yet. On The Dream we were on Deck 7. We chose to have some luggage picked up which meant we had to first wait for everyone who was debarking by carrying their own luggage. They announced first debarking of those carrying their own luggage at 8:30am from decks 6 and 7 ONLY. My cabin mate went out to get some coffee during this time. He said it was an absolute zoo with masses of people trying to exit the ship all at the same time, and people overloaded with luggage carrying far too much than they should have just so they could get off the ship first. He spied people from ALL decks (by looking at their tags) and not just 6 and 7, so clearly people were ignoring the direction given in the announcements. After about 30 minutes of waiting in the cabin they had not announced any other decks to debark. We were concerned now because if it was going to be 30 minutes plus to debark every 2 decks then it might be an hour or more before they got to us with the checked bags and we had a car waiting for us at 9am. So we left the cabin to debark then. The risk we took of course is that our luggage wouldn't be down waiting for us, but we figured it was worth the chance as we were in the first debark deck for checked luggage anyway. We found the line to debark shortly and it was HUGE, winding up the starboard rear half of the ship then cutting through to port side and going up the port side to mid-ship at the gangway. We also noticed lots of people sitting and waiting in common areas like reception with all of their bags for whatever reason. It was just a total zoo. It took about 10 minutes to get through the line and again we noticed people with luggage tags from ALL decks even though they had yet to call anyone except 6 and 7. By the time we got to the gangway, now 40 minutes since the first debark call they finally made a call for all passengers from all decks carrying their bags to debark. Of course most of them had already debarked by that point so it was a bit silly.

 

I contrast this to the debark experience on Princess which I could only call basically civilized. Yes, we had to leave our cabin by a certain time (something I had experienced on all cruiselines in the past, so I was used to it) with the few bags we didn't check. They called groups of cabins every 10-15 minutes. We went and sat down in the internet cafe area. I think they had been calling cabins already for about 30-45 minutes by the time we left our cabin and we had to wait in the internet area for about 30-45 minutes. And there were other people around with their bags also, but the atmosphere was pretty calm except for the area around reception where there was a long line of people disputing charges. And when we were called to debark it was a swift trip to the gangway with no congestion and right off the ship. It was just much more organized than NCL. But that was The Dream so I look forward to seeing how NCL handles it on its other newer and larger ships.

[DAGVBSB]

I hear everyone raving about this express disembarkation but I haven't seen it work well yet. On The Dream we were on Deck 7. We chose to have some luggage picked up which meant we had to first wait for everyone who was debarking by carrying their own luggage. They announced first debarking of those carrying their own luggage at 8:30am from decks 6 and 7 ONLY. My cabin mate went out to get some coffee during this time. He said it was an absolute zoo with masses of people trying to exit the ship all at the same time, and people overloaded with luggage carrying far too much than they should have just so they could get off the ship first. He spied people from ALL decks (by looking at their tags) and not just 6 and 7, so clearly people were ignoring the direction given in the announcements. After about 30 minutes of waiting in the cabin they had not announced any other decks to debark. We were concerned now because if it was going to be 30 minutes plus to debark every 2 decks then it might be an hour or more before they got to us with the checked bags and we had a car waiting for us at 9am. So we left the cabin to debark then. The risk we took of course is that our luggage wouldn't be down waiting for us, but we figured it was worth the chance as we were in the first debark deck for checked luggage anyway. We found the line to debark shortly and it was HUGE, winding up the starboard rear half of the ship then cutting through to port side and going up the port side to mid-ship at the gangway. We also noticed lots of people sitting and waiting in common areas like reception with all of their bags for whatever reason. It was just a total zoo. It took about 10 minutes to get through the line and again we noticed people with luggage tags from ALL decks even though they had yet to call anyone except 6 and 7. By the time we got to the gangway, now 40 minutes since the first debark call they finally made a call for all passengers from all decks carrying their bags to debark. Of course most of them had already debarked by that point so it was a bit silly.

 

I contrast this to the debark experience on Princess which I could only call basically civilized. Yes, we had to leave our cabin by a certain time (something I had experienced on all cruiselines in the past, so I was used to it) with the few bags we didn't check. They called groups of cabins every 10-15 minutes. We went and sat down in the internet cafe area. I think they had been calling cabins already for about 30-45 minutes by the time we left our cabin and we had to wait in the internet area for about 30-45 minutes. And there were other people around with their bags also, but the atmosphere was pretty calm except for the area around reception where there was a long line of people disputing charges. And when we were called to debark it was a swift trip to the gangway with no congestion and right off the ship. It was just much more organized than NCL. But that was The Dream so I look forward to seeing how NCL handles it on its other newer and larger ships.

 

 

Let's clear up another definition issue. (this helps newbies better understand what we are talking about when we throw around these terms...not directed at you..)

Freestyle Disembarkation - this is NCL's style of the last morning. It allows you to put your luggage out the night before and then stay in your cabin until your luggage tag color is called. To me, it is simple and easy.

 

Express Disembarkation - what I refer to as "the mess." (called Express Walk-off on RCI for example). In this case, you keep your luggage with you. Once the ship is cleared for disembarkation, they are the first people called to leave the ship. The catch is that you have to be able to carry all of your own luggage off the ship without help from a crew member. This system would work fine, except that they allow too many people to do it. We were told on both NCL and RCI that the number of people who are allowed to do express would be limited.... but from what I have heard about NCL's and what I witnessed on RCI, they need to limit it even more! Of course, everyone who does Express also wants to be the first one off, which doesn't help. (it's like a freeway that narrows to one lane for construction, it would flow fine except for the idiots who have to rush up in the lane that is closing and then try and squeeze in at the last minute...ask any transportation official or trucker...that is what slows those construction zones down!) I have never understood what the hurry is in rushing to get off first or as soon as you dock. Why ruin a vacation with that stress??

Express has became a zoo on most ships!

 

 

As far as what you describe, it sounds very similar to what I saw on the Explorer. People sitting everyplace... on stairwells, on tables, in aisles of the theater, in the hallways around the Promenade. With their few belongings, they looked like homeless people. (I kept waiting for someone to ask me for a dime.....lol) It was a mess. It was my first experience with "traditional disembarkation" and I can't understand why cruise lines force people to do it. NCL has proven that you don't have to force people out of their cabins and you can still have the ship ready for new guests by 1:00 or 2:00 p.m.

 

It really put a sad look ending to a nice cruise.

[Boat_Drinks]

It was my first experience with "traditional disembarkation" and I can't understand why cruise lines force people to do it. NCL has proven that you don't have to force people out of their cabins and you can still have the ship ready for new guests by 1:00 or 2:00 p.m.

 

It really put a sad look ending to a nice cruise.

 

NCL's policy of having passengers wait in their cabins is, IMHO, excellent! I really HATE ending a wonderful cruise with the "get out of your cabin at 8am and wait 3 hours 'somewhere' to leave the ship" - as you say, it's a poor way to end a cruise.

 

The "Express Disembarkation" is IMHO a problem. There were just TOO many people carrying TOO much luggage, and taking far TOO long. I think NCL's idea is that people utilizing this option will be "travelling light", having a reasonable sized rolling bag and a carry-on so they can move quickly through the line. What we saw on Dream were people with MASSIVE bags and MANY "carry-on" sized bags. If they could have been "daisy-chained" into a single rolling "entity" it probably would have been OK (I've done that before, LARGE roller chained to rolling garment bag chained to small roller) - but that wasn't the case, it was a zoo.

 

I have a proposal that would make both camps happy I believe, but might introduce additional cost to NCL. Continue to allow the "Express Disembarkation" group to exit using the existing process (including ramps, escalators and elevators to the baggage claim area/ground level). However, allow passengers with NO LUGGAGE (other than a small carry-on sized bag) to disembark from a lower deck at ground level directly into the baggage claim area of the terminal using the same gangways used at ports of call. Since you aren't carrying any big luggage, you should be able to make your way quickly and comfortably off the ship and into baggage claim.

 

Unfortunately, this would require a second Immigration station at ground level, and a means of securing the area from the ship to the baggage claim so you can't "sneak around" Immigration somehow.

 

I'm sure there are issues that would need to be addressed, but it would allow NCL (and frankly ANY cruise line opting to do this) to start disembarkation for BOTH Express and Standard groups simultaneously via two different channels, speeding up the whole process for all. The payback would be getting the passengers off of the ship more quickly, allowing them to start preparing the rooms for incoming guests sooner.

 

Just my $0.02. Like WonderMan, I also found Princess' traditional disembarkation to be the most orderly and comfortable, and like DGVBSB I hate that RCCL makes you feel "homeless" for up to several hours (I'm sure it's similar on other lines except NCL too). I think it may also have a lot to do with how your fellow travellers behave, the whole thing is a lot less stressful when you are with other well-mannered people. :)

[soccermommy]

I have only sailed from Seattle, so my POV is narrow, to say the least. Disembarkation on the Star was relatively painless. I'm wondering if some of the problems you encountered, Boat_Drinks, is more a function of the terminal. What I mean is, is the number of Immigration stations and the number of gangways allowed controlled by NCL or the terminal (Black Falcon, right?) Your idea is a really good one, but I'm not sure who makes these decisions, the lines or the ports.

[Boat_Drinks]

is the number of Immigration stations and the number of gangways allowed controlled by NCL or the terminal (Black Falcon, right?) Your idea is a really good one, but I'm not sure who makes these decisions, the lines or the ports.

 

Good question, I wish I knew the answer. Immigration may very well require a "contained space" for disembarking passengers (unless, of course, they moved the Immigration Officer inside the ship for that egress...).

[DAGVBSB]

Good question, I wish I knew the answer. Immigration may very well require a "contained space" for disembarking passengers (unless, of course, they moved the Immigration Officer inside the ship for that egress...).

 

Boat Drinks: I believe that the customs/immigration process is controlled by the port authorities. They dictate the number of officers based on the number of people on the ship.

 

I also don't think you can disembark from more than one deck. Some ports are set up in such a way that only one deck can be used. (In Portland, the deck we disembarked on changed as the day progressed and the tide came in and out!)

 

BUT, what they could do is use two ganways on the deck. I have seen many ships utilize this method. Perhaps say that the forward gangway is for those doing regular disembarkation and begin calling colors earlier. Use the aft gangway for Express Disembarkation. That way those with their luggage are all being funneled through one point. Then when the Express Disembarkers are off the ship, you can use the aft gangway for bringing on crew replacements. (one of the reasons that I have heard why only one gangway is used for exiting... so that the other can be for entering.)

Since all disembarking passengers must go through the same lines for customs inside the terminals, it doesn't change that operation.

 

By utilizing both systems simultaneously, you are allowing the ship to clear faster. Also, by begining to call colors earlier, other people may once again choose that method over the Express and as a result put less people in the melee known as Express Disembarkation.

 

Of course, the easy solution would be to set a lower number of people who are allowed to do express and stick to that number......but that would mean enforcing rules and we all know that NCL is very lax in that area.

[Boat_Drinks]

Excellent ideas DAGVBSB.

 

You know, I'm thinking back to at least one RCCL cruise, I think it was on Adventure of the Seas. I'm quite certain they performed the Immigration check ON the ship, and had at least half a dozen officers working simultaneously. We all know that MOST of the time Immigration just waves you in (they don't even check your identification or bags for returning US Citizens), so maybe if they could have multiple exits each having at least one Immigration officer it might work.

 

Oh well, it is what it is - hopefully someone at NCL will agree that these are ideas worth exploring.

[coffeebean]

Here's a link to a thread I started a week or so ago about comparisons between the two lines:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=809097&highlight=cynbar.

 

We are usually Princess loyalists but we enjoyed our cruise on the Gem. In fairness, the newer NCL ships get better reviews than the older ones, which I can't comment on. We would definitely sail NCL again if the itinerary and price were right.

 

You mentioned that you never did eat in the Gem's buffet dining venue. I would assume you did at least walk through and take a look. The Gem and the Pearl have "action stations" which is the best buffet dining venue I have experienced on land or sea. Many of the stations have a chef preparing fresh food to your liking. I'm not talking only about pasta stations and omelet stations. NCl has so much more food being prepared fresh for the passengers. With the Freestyle 2.0 upgrades, it is NCL's plan to have action stations on their entire fleet.

[coffeebean]

Nobody is blasting NCL. The OP asked a legitimate question and asked for comparisons of the dining on NCL and Princess, I responded with my honest opinions, having cruised both lines. You are welcome to disagree, but please let's not start the name-calling (again).

 

 

 

Totally different experience for me on Princess. The food quality and service were always good to excellent. Just goes to show two people can have entirely different experiences on the same ship. :)

 

My experience with breakfast on NCL Dream is best categorized in my report of the Le Bistro Brunch at Terraces here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=15419640&postcount=23

 

Summary: Walked out after waiting 30 minutes for waiter to take order and consuming ice-cold eggs from the buffet while waiting.

 

 

 

This is true on both lines (although I can't recall what "specialty" cuisines were offered on Emerald Princess). On Prinicess they have "Anytime Dining", which worked very well for us, just show up at any dining room and specify the size of your dinner party - we typically waited less than 15-20 minutes with one exception, on Formal Night most passengers skip their assigned dining time/table and opt for Anytime Dining in one of the other dining rooms. This adds a higher load to the other dining rooms, and wait times were accordingly higher (I think we waited 30 minutes on Formal Night for a table).

 

Here is a fact that Princess really doesn't advertise fully (you'll find it in the Princess Patter, but it's something most people don't notice). You can actually make reservations for Anytime Dining and be assured of NO wait. Just call before I think it's 10am on the same day and you can reserve your table for that evening at the time of your choice. We discovered this late in the cruise, and wish we had known earlier on.

 

 

 

True, but I've never been of the opinion that "size matters", at least not with regards to service and food quality. :)

 

There are some cruisers who believe that service and food quality is BETTER on smaller, more intimate ships.

 

That isn't really true in NCL's case. NCL's older ships were not built for Freestyle dining, hence an inferior dining experience vs their newer ships which were built for Freestyle dining. I would not cruise on one of NCL's older ships if I won the cruise. I mean that too! However, I am a devout cheerleader for NCL and have cruised on Star, Dawn 3 times, Spirit, Gem and Pearl.

 

coffeebean

[DAGVBSB]

Excellent ideas DAGVBSB.

 

You know, I'm thinking back to at least one RCCL cruise, I think it was on Adventure of the Seas. I'm quite certain they performed the Immigration check ON the ship, and had at least half a dozen officers working simultaneously. We all know that MOST of the time Immigration just waves you in (they don't even check your identification or bags for returning US Citizens), so maybe if they could have multiple exits each having at least one Immigration officer it might work.

 

Oh well, it is what it is - hopefully someone at NCL will agree that these are ideas worth exploring.

 

We had the immigration on the ship when we reached Bar Harbor from St. John. But we still had to go through US Customs when we got off in New York.

 

The immigration in Bar Harbor was done on the ship. I guess that when a ship returns to US waters, they have to check everyone and make sure they are legit. Of course, since we were legit when we left New York and it is impossible to board a ship in ports, I didn't really see the point. But that is the United States Government for you.

 

I will say that it was extremely well organized and the line moved very quickly. (thank God, the US Immigration people organized it instead of the crew on the unorganized Explorer of the Seas or we would still be waiting in line!.)

 

We simply winded through the dining room, they marked off each of our names on a list of cabin numbers and when we came to the agents, they looked at our passports, stamped them and said have a nice day.

 

Like I said, as a US taxpayer, it seemed like a waste of money to have all those agents there for that simple task. Just dumb, but I'm sure there is a law someplace.

 

Then of course, EVERYONE on the ship had to go through the line before they would let anyone who had gone ashore come back on. In spite of RCI's requests the day before for everyone to go to the dining room by 10:30-11:00 a.m., there were still some lazy bums who had not reported by 12:30!! HELLOOOO, clueless clods...you were told that everyone had to go and you are part of the everyone! As a result, the ship had to hunt those people down and get them to go and appear. People on shore had been waiting over an hour to return to the ship and couldn't because of those few inconsiderate idiots. (I don't blame RCI or US Immigration for the delay letting people back on... I blame the lazy bums who thought only of themselves....)

[soccermommy]

I have a relative who is a CBP(Customs and Border Protection) Agent in California. She handles mostly recertification of crew (foreign crew must have their papers checked every 90 days) but has done work with passengers. She has done both on-ship and on-land reentry. She says that the configuration/needs of the port have a lot to do with how it's handled;i.e. space, multiple ships, number of passengers, etc. When it looks like the agents aren't doing much, well,sometimes it only looks like it (and sometimes they're just not!)but they're trained to watch people and can tell a lot by how people behave. Needless to say we're very proud of her, her job is a lot more complicated than most people would expect.

But it appears that many of these decisions are really in the hands of the ports.