Safety Measures for Flightseeing?

[tee_harbor]

A little note caught my eye in the Juneau Empire today.

 

"National safety officials are recommending that the FAA implement some changes as a result of a fatal airplane crash near Ketchikan last summer...

 

Among its recommendations released Thursday, the NTSB wants weather cameras to be installed at critical areas of air tour routes within the Misty Fjords National Monument and other scenic areas of SE AK.

 

The NTSB also recommends the development of a permanent mechanism for observing air tour flights in the region at least once a month during the tourist season."

 

Now we'll see if it happens.

 

I will admit, as a local, that I was a bit peeved to think, the crashes outside of tourist season didn't warrant weather cameras, but when tourists die, something must be done? Then I cooled down, realizing that locals are well aware that they're risking their lives every time they get in a small plane in SE AK.

 

I remember the reaction last year on this board after the two crashes in Ketchikan--many cancellations, or at least a great deal of soul searching. Probably the last thing a tourist wants to be thinking as they enter a plane for an excursion is, I could die today. Not really fun, fun, fun! :D

 

I'm sure a lot of vendors lost a lot of money last year from those cancellations, so anything that will help reassure tourists has to be a help to the industry. Just not sure who would be monitoring these cameras, though.

[2ndguesser]

How has this season been for flightseeing? I mean do you think last years crashes have continued to have an effect on the industry? They are probably effected more by the economy.

 

We will be in Ketchikan in 3 weeks and we chose to go with a vendor that was involved in one of the fatal crashes last year. If I think about it my stomach is in knots. I'd like to make it home to my kids! But it's a risk with any small plane as you have said.

[PennyAgain]

Every time a post like this one is made, some pilot posts that we are all stupid and don't know anything about flying.

 

It isn't Disney World there are risks. Most people absolutely don't want to think about risks.

[fatcattravel]

I just got back with a flight seeing trip with Michelle at Island Wings and it was definitely the highlight of my trip! Worth every penny! Words can not describe the experience!

 

Hope you enjoy yours!

[Krazy Kruizers]

Everything we do in life is a risk.

[kenish]

Every time a post like this one is made, some pilot posts that we are all stupid and don't know anything about flying.

 

It isn't Disney World there are risks. Most people absolutely don't want to think about risks.

 

Rangers in Grand Canyon NP refer to the "Disney Effect". "If it wasn't safe to walk to the edge of this cliff, they would have a railing". Quite a few people meet their demise every year. I'm glad Darwin is removing people lacking common sense from the gene pool.

[lovesublime]

Wow! I guess you missed this article also in today's Juneau Empire.

http://juneauempire.com/stories/080108/loc_312394591.shtml

 

I think what the FAA is doing is a very good thing. The FAA has long been trying to improve aviation safety in Alaska. I suppose you haven't heard of the FAA's Capstone progrom in Alaska? The reason for the weather cameras in Misty Fjords is because pilots do not currently have any real way of checking the weather. The cameras are for their benefit. My son is a commercial airline pilot and my husband has his private and instrument. Here in the lower 48, all my husband has to do is call up and get a (real) weather check. Pilots in Alaska cannot do that as readily.

 

We were on that Seawind plane last year only a few weeks before the crash. The plane was fully equipped with the Capstone avionics installed and paid for by the government. It didn't prevent the fatal crash though. The crash has been attributed to bad weather. Also, the poster making references to "Disney World" is correct. Most people don't want to think about it. We maybe are different from most because we did "think" about it and chose not to flightsee again on our cruise last month. Aviation safety in Alaska needs to be improved for everyone, locals and tourists alike.

 

BTW-can you post a link to the article you are quoting. Thanks.

[tee_harbor]

Wow! I guess you missed this article also in today's Juneau Empire.

http://juneauempire.com/stories/080108/loc_312394591.shtml

 

I try to post things I think will help/be of interest to cruisers. L.A.B. is more of a transportation airlines and not generally used by day trippers.

 

The whole thing did make me shake my head as to how long L.A.B. thought they could go before they had a crash and then the bear scat really would hit the fan. In AK, even when you do everything correctly, it's a matter of when, not if, flying conditions will catch up with someone.

 

BTW-can you post a link to the article you are quoting. Thanks.

 

I transcribed it word for word, only taking out one sentence about the original crash, but here you go: http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/080108/reg_312394917.shtml

 

Juneau Empire links tend to go a bit funky after the original post date, so I try to just put relevant info.

[diverearl]

OSHA cites, fines Walt Disney World in fatal ride accident - Orlando Sentinel,5/24/08

 

Federal investigators charged Walt Disney World with five safety violations at the Primeval Whirl roller coaster that was the site of a fatal employee accident last fall. They also fined the company $21,500.

 

In an inquiry report issued Thursday by the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration and publicly released Friday, Disney World was cited for three serious violations, a repeat violation not fixed since an earlier inspection, and a paperwork violation relating to Primeval Whirl in Disney’s Animal Kingdom.

 

So do we all stop going to Disney (does the original poster think about dieing every time they get on a ride at an amusement park? Maybe just stirring the pot? I'll take my chances. One time someone got killed by a shark but we still dive and last I heard even though the operator of the dive shop knew there were sharks in the area it wasn't his fault. Heck I wanted to see the sharks and was pretty sure there were some risks involved.

[tee_harbor]

So do we all stop going to Disney (does the original poster think about dieing every time they get on a ride at an amusement park? Maybe just stirring the pot?

 

I have no idea what you're inferring.

 

As it is, I would have an expectation that my amusement park ride would be safe, with no risk of dying.

 

A small plane, flying in an area know for dangerous and rapidly changing weather, over precarious terrain, should not be regard with the same attitude as when one steps onto Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

[diverearl]

I have no idea what you're inferring.

 

As it is, I would have an expectation that my amusement park ride would be safe, with no risk of dying.

 

A small plane, flying in an area know for dangerous and rapidly changing weather, over precarious terrain, should not be regard with the same attitude as when one steps onto Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.

 

There are many accidents at amusement parks and there is obviously a risk of dieing on an amusement park ride and very few with small planes for the total number of flights per day. This isn't that hard. If there were no risk there would be no thrill.

 

I can tell you for a fact I don't expect I'm risking my life every time I fly in a plane large or small, and I'm pretty sure you don't either.

 

Why would a local from Alaska where so many rely on this income bring up airplane crashes from last year or any other time on a Cruise Ship board? Just curious?

[3boyzmom]

 

Why would a local from Alaska where so many rely on this income bring up airplane crashes from last year or any other time on a Cruise Ship board? Just curious?

 

 

Actually, I'm glad this person is asking responsible questions....for a very long time in Alaska, they have not wanted to talk about the lack of safety in the airlines. Any time people from the "lower 48" ask questions or bring up concerns, they are told by the locals that we "just don't understand Alaska." I think in some ways that's true. Living in the lower 48, we assume certain things about airline travel that are not true in Alaska. But I also think the hesitancy to talk about the real issues has caused more injuries and deaths that could've been prevented.

 

The fact of the matter is there ARE problems in Alaska with air travel. One issue that was already raised with weather reports. They don't always get them, and the weather changes so quickly they need constant updating....there's very little radar or radio coverage, commercial airlines aren't required to carry insurance, the epirbs the aircraft are required to carry don't work underwater and the technology is outdated....these are a few. The Capstone program is a voluntary program. The airlines get discounts on their insurance for participating- it's still being phased in, and the fact that an aircraft has the equipment doesn't mean the program is actually working- there is equipment that needs to be installed on the ground too....

 

I'm not trying to scare anyone, but the fact is we do let our guard down a little when we're on vacation- we do assume things are safe. Combine this with the fact that many locals haven't wanted to talk about it for fear the conversation would scare tourists away and you miss valuable opportunities to improve the safety for EVERYONE....

 

Unfortunately, I speak from experience. My dad and his friends left the Sitka airport in a floatplane in bad weather back in September 2004. Their plane was never found. They were assumed dead. I fought for quite awhile in the beginning to see that changes were made that could be made, but was told over and over that I "just don't understand Alaska."

 

Thank you to a local who's actually willing to ask questions....something should be done. Cameras on an oft-used flight pattern are a good start.

[wolfie11]

I try to post things I think will help/be of interest to cruisers. L.A.B. is more of a transportation airlines and not generally used by day trippers.

 

The whole thing did make me shake my head as to how long L.A.B. thought they could go before they had a crash and then the bear scat really would hit the fan. In AK, even when you do everything correctly, it's a matter of when, not if, flying conditions will catch up with someone.

 

Most locals avoid LAB - it's nicknames include "lacerations, abrasions, and bruises" and "limbs, arms, and body parts." However, with Skagway Air closing down and now LAB, flight service between small towns in SE AK is going to be very limited. Flying in SE AK is scary enough with a good pilot in an airworthy craft. Conditions can change drastically in a matter of minutes.

 

This can be especially true in Misty Fjords and I for one am glad to see the recommendations for weather cameras.

[PennyAgain]

3boyzmom, I am truly sorry for your loss.

 

I have waited and waited in Alaska for flights to take off. One old pilot told me as I was very tired of waiting, 'do you want to fly today when I don't want to.'

 

I quit complaining!

 

I've been on Kodiak when we just couldn't get a flight out and had to sleep on the floor. I've slept on the floor at Anchorage many times. I'm used to it.

 

I don't mind waiting for safe conditions.

 

I have been 'flamed' on this BB for stating my opinion on flight safety in Alaska. I have often wondered how the flight seeing operations can get away with what they do. People post rave reviews of some of the pilots and companies without a word about safety.