C.C.P.I.C.S. - Class 03 - Low-light Photography

[pierces]

Better late than never. I finally got a chance to work on this assignment. I had a hard time finding something to shoot since I live in a town with a population of about 2600. When it gets dark here, it's really dark.

 

 

Thanks Dave - This is so helpful.

Linda

 

f3.2, 1/8, 250 iso, handheld

 

What technique did you use to steady you camera (arms tight, leaning, etc.) Your S5IS has stabilization, but 1/8s is still tough and how you did it may be helpful to others!

 

Just for comparison, this is what my night shots usually look like.

 

Been there...took that! :o

 

f2.7, 6s, 80 iso, tripod - The streak was a car.

 

Now we're talkin'!

 

Good job!

 

Isn't this fun? (I had a calculus teacher that used to say that all the time...I think he was eventualy beaten by a student with no sense of humor. ;) )

Dave

[mclou]

f3.2, 1/8, 250 iso, handheld

 

What technique did you use to steady you camera (arms tight, leaning, etc.) Your S5IS has stabilization, but 1/8s is still tough and how you did it may be helpful to others!

 

I was leaning back against my car and trying to keep my arms tight (and maybe even holding my breath :D ). I have a little flexible tripod but there wasn't really any place to set it up in this location. I think I used one of the camera's pre-sets for this shot (that's something I'm not always sure of after the fact - which shots were with presets and which I adjusted). The other one is from my front yard where I could use the newspaper box for the tripod. It's definitely easier and better with a tripod.

 

Definitely fun & my next cruise pictures are going to be so much better.

 

Linda

[Robin7]

My neighbor took his flag down :mad: and I hadn't had a chance to scout out anything else to photograph, but then tonight my husband (who was helping our boys set up their tent in our backyard for a sleepover) came in shouting to get the camera because the sunset was gorgeous. By the time I got the camera and attached it to the tripod, the peak color was gone, but I did get a couple of shots like this:

 

Canon EOS 40D, 1/30 sec., F/8, ISO 400

 

I learned that I know NOTHING about how to use my new camera on manual. Heh. (I've got two books on order from amazon that should show up soon, plus I'm starting a local community class on photography on Tuesday. Those should help.)

 

I also got a moon shot when I went out to check on the boys later:

 

1/125 sec., F/8, ISO 400 (I don't have any idea why it's set to 400, nor how to change it. :eek: Gonna look that up TONIGHT.)

 

 

My husband ordered $500 worth of polarizers, UV filters, and hoods today. At least he's supportive of my new obsession. :D

 

Robin

[FinelyCruising]

Well dumb luck must be a good thing...I think these look really nice!;)

[NYLady]

Robin,

Those are beautiful shots.

I know what you mean about not knowing anything about the manual settings and trying to get set up while the light changes so fast. I'm still working my way through Dave's instructions for the Low Lighting and I hope to give it another try when I'm not on a boat (although that is good practice for the cruises).

 

The low light pictures I got last weekend were my 10th attempt to get a decent evening/night picture of the Brooklyn Bridge while on the boat. None of the other nine attempts were even worth keeping, so I feel I'm making progress.

 

What I don't seem to remember how to do is post a picture to this BB. I've done it easily...then experienced trouble...then learned I could use a simple copy/paste command...then trouble again...I'm not terrible with comuters and I use them all day (ok mostly Word and Excel) but pictures seem to give me trouble.

[NYLady]

So I spent a little more time with the camera today. Now that I know how to review what the settings were, I have been able to exeriment more effectively. I tried different settings on the Manual, Aperture, and Shutter settings, and took exactly the same photo on Auto. I was able to compare the look of each and note what the settings were - very instructive. Very quickly I discovered that my ISO setting for manual was on 200 and that was causing problems. Now I know how to change it!

 

Back to the books...I'm still working my way through Dave's lesson.

[Robin7]

Those are beautiful shots.

 

What I don't seem to remember how to do is post a picture to this BB.

 

Thank you both, FinelyCruising and NYLady! I'm still very much learning.

 

How I post photos is this:

 

First I upload the ones I want to share to webshots.com. (You can use any free photo-sharing site. I think Picasa is recommended, but I don't know how to use it.)

 

Then I navigate to the photo I want and open it. On the righthand side are various choices for what you want to do with that photo. I mark the box for 600 pixels, and then copy the computer code under "direct link to image".

 

Then I open the reply box here on cruise critic. See the yellow thing with the mountain that looks like a postcard? Click on that, and a scripted window will open, and I just paste the code from webshots in that. I always preview to make certain it shows up before I post and try again if I've done something incorrectly.

 

Good luck! I'd like to see some of your photos.

 

Robin

[cruzegirl]

I went out last night to get some more practice. I've learned that this isn't easy and I may very well stick to the auto settings on my camera. I used several of the recommended settings in this class but they did not work. I would have lost my moment or taken forever to have figured out what I needed. lol.... But I've figured out a few for myself that I'll put down on my index cards.

More power to you Dave but apparently this is something, manual settings, that escapes me.

 

Here's a few shots. This was put on the recommended setting, I thought, of f8.0, 1/125 sec, iso 100 to take this moon shot. I realize it should have been 1/100 but the result would have been the same. I decreased the aperture and shutter speed with several photos on the previous link I provided. This was my result. All were taken on a tripod, image stabilization off and on a timer.

f8.0 1/125 sec iso 100

 

So I finally did an auto night scene selection on my camera. This was the result.

f2.8 4sec iso 400

Completely different settings. And I did look at the info. and use the setting the night scene gave me for other shots. The "pretend it's daytime when shooting the moon theory" did not work for me. But it's fun playing as I'm figuring out some on my own.

 

Here are 2 different scenes of the pool area. I'm finding my camera is requiring me to increase my iso to get anything decent. But I love both of these pool shots for different reasons. They both bring something to the photo.

pool f3.3 4sec iso 100

 

Here's the same shot, higher iso

f3.4 4sec iso 400

 

Here's a moon shot I played with.

f4.4 4sec iso 400

 

Now I would like to ask for some advice. When I'm in Tahiti, what the best settings to shoot the beach & the sunsets? I would like to make a couple of them into 11X16 or 16X20 when all is said and done to put on my bedroom wall. What is the best to put my image quality settings on? Thanks for the help

[TheRoff]

Cruze Girl,

 

Very nice pictures, particularly the one of the pool with the grass showing.

 

I believe Dave’s rule of thumb applies to telephoto shots of the moon where it fills up the view finder much like Pengu1’s picture on the first page of the class. Try something like your last shot of the moon through the trees with those settings and I bet you will have a nice picture – with very dark leaves, however.

 

As to shots to print to a large size, use the lowest image compression setting your camera has and the largest file size in terms of pixels. This will yield very large files that would be best for making large prints. Beware, however, that photos of this size will eat up lots of memory on a card.

 

As to the settings for beach and sunsets, I would let your automatic camera do the work. Just take lots of photos. If your camera has point or center weighted light metering capabilities and an aperture lock capability, then you can point it at the part of the scene you want to be exposed properly, lock the aperture and then recompose you photo, and click. Again, take several shots with different settings. I would set your ISO at the lower end to take advantage of a small aperture and large depth of field.

 

Now that I have typed all this, I await Dave’s critique. Hope I didn’t say anything wrong.

[pierces]

Here's a few shots. This was put on the recommended setting, I thought, of f8.0, 1/125 sec, iso 100 to take this moon shot. I realize it should have been 1/100 but the result would have been the same. I decreased the aperture and shutter speed with several photos on the previous link I provided. This was my result. All were taken on a tripod, image stabilization off and on a timer.

f8.0 1/125 sec iso 100

 

 

So I finally did an auto night scene selection on my camera. This was the result.

f2.8 4sec iso 400

Completely different settings. And I did look at the info. and use the setting the night scene gave me for other shots. The "pretend it's daytime when shooting the moon theory" did not work for me. But it's fun playing as I'm figuring out some on my own.

The pretend it's daytime theory only works with a long telephoto shot of the moon where the moon is the main subject. The wide-angle view you shot was better suited to your night-shot mode because of the very low EV.

 

Here are 2 different scenes of the pool area. I'm finding my camera is requiring me to increase my iso to get anything decent. But I love both of these pool shots for different reasons. They both bring something to the photo.

 

pool f3.3 4sec iso 100

 

Here's the same shot, higher iso

 

f3.4 4sec iso 400

 

Here's a good example of shifting one of the three settings...if you had increased the exposure by lengthening the exposure 4x to 16 seconds (ok, 15 second max on you UZ) instead of increasing the ISO 4x to 400, it would have given you the same image!

 

Now I would like to ask for some advice. When I'm in Tahiti, what the best settings to shoot the beach & the sunsets? I would like to make a couple of them into 11X16 or 16X20 when all is said and done to put on my bedroom wall. What is the best to put my image quality settings on? Thanks for the help

 

Roff's suggestion to let the sunset scene mode choose is valid. All I would add it to use the +/- exposure compensation to dial the brightness up and down to get the balance you like. Exposure compensation adjusts the settings similarly to what you would do in manual mode.

 

I believe Dave’s rule of thumb applies to telephoto shots of the moon where it fills up the view finder much like Pengu1’s picture on the first page of the class. Try something like your last shot of the moon through the trees with those settings and I bet you will have a nice picture – with very dark leaves, however.

 

Dead on...as I said above! :D

 

As to shots to print to a large size, use the lowest image compression setting your camera has and the largest file size in terms of pixels. This will yield very large files that would be best for making large prints. Beware, however, that photos of this size will eat up lots of memory on a card.

 

Piffle on card usage! :D

 

Always shoot at lowest compression and maximum resolution! At >$10/GB, there's no reason not to! You can always re-compress or reduce the image size later if needed. Can't do it the other way around!

 

As to the settings for beach and sunsets, I would let your automatic camera do the work. Just take lots of photos. If your camera has point or center weighted light metering capabilities and an aperture lock capability, then you can point it at the part of the scene you want to be exposed properly, lock the aperture and then recompose you photo, and click. Again, take several shots with different settings. I would set your ISO at the lower end to take advantage of a small aperture and large depth of field.

 

Now that I have typed all this, I await Dave’s critique. Hope I didn’t say anything wrong.

 

Good advice and the lowest ISO is the right choice, but that would require a larger aperture (smaller f/-number) for the same shutter speed, not smaller.

 

A tripod, small aperture, low ISO and a long exposure can give you some incredible shots with the waves blurred and softened by the slow shutter.

 

You folks are putting a lot of effort into this and doing a great job!

 

Dave

[NYLady]

Cruizegirl,

Thank you for posting those specific examples. The comments on your settings is very helpful, particularly the ISO setting. My camera also seemed to be calling for a higher ISO, now I'll try something else.

 

Dave,

I'm so happy to be able to feel I have learned to read what my camera is doing when I take a picture. When on the Auto setting, I used to feel I was "cheating" and that I could get a much better photo if I set it up myself. Now I realize that it is not necessarily so. The knowledge can help in certain situations but, in general, studying has given me reason to explore the camera and now I'm finding features I didn't know existed.

[NYLady]

sorry - duplicate post

[pierces]

Cruizegirl,

Thank you for posting those specific examples. The comments on your settings is very helpful, particularly the ISO setting. My camera also seemed to be calling for a higher ISO, now I'll try something else.

 

Dave,

I'm so happy to be able to feel I have learned to read what my camera is doing when I take a picture. When on the Auto setting, I used to feel I was "cheating" and that I could get a much better photo if I set it up myself. Now I realize that it is not necessarily so. The knowledge can help in certain situations but, in general, studying has given me reason to explore the camera and now I'm finding features I didn't know existed.

 

You have made a very important point here.

 

Using your camera on Auto or Program is not a sin! Modern cameras use powerful processors and sophisticated algorithms to produce acceptable, if not excellent, exposure under almost any lighting condition. The algorithms represent decades of photographic experience distilled down and stuffed into your camera's tiny brain. Using Auto, but understanding what it is that your camera does on auto is probably the most valuable thing you can take away from this exercise. Knowing how and why your camera reacts to various lighting situations will help you adjust when the auto program reaches it's limits and still get the shot. Today's cameras are pretty fool-proof, but you don't have to be a fool to use one! :D

 

My little pocket camera doesn't have a full manual mode, but since I know "the ropes", I can use the ISO settings, flash settings, auto-exposure hold and the +/- exposure adjustments to wrestle it into line when needed.

 

There are still outside-the-box situations where having a DSLR and full manual control is desirable or even necessary, but thanks to today's technology, more situations are inside the box than outside!

 

Happy shooting!

 

Dave

[bakechef]

Just got back from my cruise and trip to Savannah!

 

I just said no to the flash and worked hard to use manual settings, and was really pleased with the results, the pictures had so much more "life" to them. here are some examples.

 

1600×1200 pixels – 368KB

Filename: IMG_1346.JPG

Camera: Canon

Model: Canon PowerShot S3 IS

ISO: n/a

Exposure: 5.0 sec

Aperture: f/5.6

Focal Length: 6mm

Flash Used: No

Latitude: n/a

Longitude: n/a

 

 

 

1600×1200 pixels – 383KB

Filename: IMG_1457.JPG

Camera: Canon

Model: Canon PowerShot S3 IS

ISO: n/a

Exposure: 15.0 sec

Aperture: f/3.2

Focal Length: 8.3mm

Flash Used: No

Latitude: n/a

Longitude: n/a

 

 

 

 

1600×1200 pixels – 233KB

Filename: IMG_1277.JPG

Camera: Canon

Model: Canon PowerShot S3 IS

ISO: n/a

Exposure: 3.2 sec

Aperture: f/3.5

Focal Length: 6mm

Flash Used: No

Latitude: n/a

Longitude: n/a

 

using available light really improved my interior shots!

 

MAC

[bakechef]

Here is the difference between using flash and available light, the one with the flash has no "mood" to me and just is uninteresting.

 

No flash!

 

Filename: IMG_1435.JPG

Camera: Canon

Model: Canon PowerShot S3 IS

ISO: n/a

Exposure: 2.5 sec

Aperture: f/5.6

Focal Length: 6mm

Flash Used: No

Latitude: n/a

Longitude: n/a

 

Flash (not the same position, but you get the idea)

 

Filename: IMG_1463.JPG

Camera: Canon

Model: Canon PowerShot S3 IS

ISO: n/a

Exposure: 1/60 sec

Aperture: f/2.7

Focal Length: 6mm

Flash Used: Yes

Latitude: n/a

Longitude: n/a

 

 

MAC

[pierces]

Here is the difference between using flash and available light, the one with the flash has no "mood" to me and just is uninteresting.

 

No flash!

 

Exposure: 2.5 sec

Aperture: f/5.6

 

Flash (not the same position, but you get the idea)

 

Exposure: 1/60 sec

Aperture: f/2.7

 

MAC

 

 

Great example!

 

This is exactly why I seldom, if ever, use flash unless there are people in the picture! Ambient light is how we see, why shouldn't our pictures see the same way?:D

 

Good work MAC!

 

Dave

[pilotdane]

You have made a very important point here.

 

"...Using your camera on Auto or Program is not a sin! Modern cameras use powerful processors and sophisticated algorithms to produce acceptable, if not excellent, exposure under almost any lighting condition. The algorithms represent decades of photographic experience distilled down and stuffed into your camera's tiny brain...." Dave

 

I would use auto and other programed modes if my camera would record in RAW mode while in auto. I can only record images in RAW while in the manual modes. The minute I set my camera to auto I can only store as .jpg :(.

[pierces]

I would use auto and other programed modes if my camera would record in RAW mode while in auto. I can only record images in RAW while in the manual modes. The minute I set my camera to auto I can only store as .jpg :(.

 

What model camera and why only shoot RAW? Do you do a lot of post-processing for professional/artistic reasons?

 

Dave

[pilotdane]

I have a Canon XTi. And yes I do post process and your questions have made me go back and look at some of the shots I've recorded in both modes. I am surprised that in most cases the .jpg shows the compression only when I go above 1:1. Basically I need to start spinning that wheel and try some of those auto modes that never get used.

[Suzieb]

I've enjoyed watching everything that everyone has posted, and it is fun to watch as everyone learns things. And you have helped me learn also, so I thought I would post and old picture from my 35mm days. It was fun to do on my patio and I would set the camera in an area that Lightening was happening. So this picture is about f8 at about 2 to 4 seconds using Ektachrome film

 

 

And now to follow the rules, the next picture is from A triple A baseball game, the fireworks that followed

 

 

And now the info on this shot

2 sec @ f8

ASA 200

Using a 70-300 zoom at 70mm with VR on

Using a monopod and camera held to the body

with maybe the there will be something there while the

shutter is open mode

Hope it works

 

Enjoying the pictures

[NYLady]

Wow! Beautiful shots.

[pierces]

I have a Canon XTi. And yes I do post process and your questions have made me go back and look at some of the shots I've recorded in both modes. I am surprised that in most cases the .jpg shows the compression only when I go above 1:1. Basically I need to start spinning that wheel and try some of those auto modes that never get used.

 

I have done extensive comparisons between RAW and fine JPG and except in cases where you may have to make critical lighting adjustments to correct a shot or reduce noise in high ISO shots, there is not enough difference for me to add all that extra work flow to my day. It has gotten to the point where I shoot 95%+ fine JPG and have made prints a large as 40"x60" with excellent results.

 

RAW has it's place, but for the average shooter and even the average pro, the benefit vs. the extra effort and storage just isn't there.

 

I was just researching an XTi question for another post and I checked the RAW issue. You can set quality to RAW in P, Av, Tv, M or A-DEP, but not in the "Basic Zone". If you still feel the need to shoot raw, set you camera on P, play with your three metering modes and use the +/- to tweak exposure.

 

Personally I shoot 99%+ on Aperture Priority. It allows me to control depth-of-field and I just have to keep an eye on the shutter speed and bump the ISO if necessary.

 

Happy shooting!

 

Dave

[pilotdane]

pierces: I am going to take some test shots this weekend. Since my XTi can record both RAW and .jpg I will be able to compare exactly identical pictures. I assume it will confirm what you have said. I also want to test how well the cameras auto modes work vs my brain. I want to take some interior shots as I normally would in Av mode (with me setting; speed, aperture, flash...) and then let the camera do it automatically. I'm almost afraid to find out which does better. :rolleyes:

 

I am rather glad this auto vs manual discussion came up. I had fallen into the habit of using Av 99.9% of the time and totally forgot/ignored the other features on my camera. Walking about I may have a fleeting second to get a wildlife shot and I have many were I was 1/2 second too late pressing the shutter. Using the auto feature would allow me to get a shot off much faster and hopefully catch more a the perfect moment.

[cruzegirl]

Cruze Girl,

 

Very nice pictures, particularly the one of the pool with the grass showing.

 

I believe Dave’s rule of thumb applies to telephoto shots of the moon where it fills up the view finder much like Pengu1’s picture on the first page of the class. Try something like your last shot of the moon through the trees with those settings and I bet you will have a nice picture – with very dark leaves, however.

 

As to shots to print to a large size, use the lowest image compression setting your camera has and the largest file size in terms of pixels. This will yield very large files that would be best for making large prints. Beware, however, that photos of this size will eat up lots of memory on a card.

 

As to the settings for beach and sunsets, I would let your automatic camera do the work. Just take lots of photos. If your camera has point or center weighted light metering capabilities and an aperture lock capability, then you can point it at the part of the scene you want to be exposed properly, lock the aperture and then recompose you photo, and click. Again, take several shots with different settings. I would set your ISO at the lower end to take advantage of a small aperture and large depth of field.

 

Now that I have typed all this, I await Dave’s critique. Hope I didn’t say anything wrong.

 

Thanks Roff. I didn't realize the moon settings were totally filling up the view finder with the moon. That makes sense now.

[cruzegirl]

[/size][/font][/color][/size][/font]

 

The pretend it's daytime theory only works with a long telephoto shot of the moon where the moon is the main subject. The wide-angle view you shot was better suited to your night-shot mode because of the very low EV.

 

 

Here's a good example of shifting one of the three settings...if you had increased the exposure by lengthening the exposure 4x to 16 seconds (ok, 15 second max on you UZ) instead of increasing the ISO 4x to 400, it would have given you the same image!

 

 

Roff's suggestion to let the sunset scene mode choose is valid. All I would add it to use the +/- exposure compensation to dial the brightness up and down to get the balance you like. Exposure compensation adjusts the settings similarly to what you would do in manual mode.

 

 

 

Dead on...as I said above! :D

 

 

Piffle on card usage! :D

 

Always shoot at lowest compression and maximum resolution! At >$10/GB, there's no reason not to! You can always re-compress or reduce the image size later if needed. Can't do it the other way around!

 

 

Ok, I guess I need to read the lowest compression versus the maximum resolution again. I can't remember which is which. Are you saying to use the largest image quality on my camera? The 2nd largest is the

SHQ 3072 X 2304? Is that ok? I'm taking 4 memory cards so I'll have alot of photos.

 

Good advice and the lowest ISO is the right choice, but that would require a larger aperture (smaller f/-number) for the same shutter speed, not smaller.

 

A tripod, small aperture, low ISO and a long exposure can give you some incredible shots with the waves blurred and softened by the slow shutter.

 

You folks are putting a lot of effort into this and doing a great job!

 

Dave

 

This class proves my point that I wish there were more classroom type classes for Photography. They are hard to find these days. But I so appreciate what you are doing here. And the fact you allow us to ask questions, you don't get annoyed and leave us. lol......