Stock Obc Not Combinable Anymore

[winncove]

Wow! I would find this thread @ 2 a.m.! [Tamra, with all the political mess you forgot to mention this little detail today! :( ] Talk about “a lot of unwelcome changes lately”? How about the timing of three majors? First the fuel surcharge, then canceling the Panama Canal portion of the Canal cruise & now this S.H. OBC that’s been “in effect” for 90 days that no one had heard about? These are just the ones that affected us. I won’t even go into the decrease in value in the DR or the $14.95 Chops steak that has no relationship to Chops.

Yes we’ve been loyal because we liked the product [& the OBCs helped make the cost a little more competitive to other lines] but not loyal to Fain or Goldstein or the bean counters. As for the OBCs covering the Sea Pass...for how many pax? We’re not big drinkers. gave up on multiple Bingo games long ago & don’t use the high $$$ spa treatments & yet we’ve never had anything close to a zero balance. OK..I’ll admit the Casino gets a healthy donation. Like most here we can’t afford to sell the stock @ this level but if & when the market recoups, bye bye! I agree the CCers selling off may not make a dent in their bottom line but it'll sure make me feel better. :D The way I read the new rules, Diamond, Savings Certs & other "offers" can't be combined. Who knows!

Gonzo, are you on the RCL Board?. [i’ve read other posts inquiring about this! LOL.] The only thing we agree on is the policy of possibly no price drops after final payment. How often does that happen anyway? Cost cutting has been “sensitive & rational”? The three majors above with little or no notice & continuing to set records for the largest ships being built in an already faltering economy? This recession didn’t happen overnight! You think when things get better for RCL our “goodies” will be returned? What year do you think that will be? Have they ever reinstated anything in the past? I’m sure I’ll be dead & gone if that ever occurred. Yes it’ll be very interesting to see the spin on the quarterly earnings report! Last years final report was glowing...just before the fuel charge was instituted. No, I’m not an economics guru like you but most of us here do have a little common sense anyway.

I just sent in a request for a SH OBC for Apr. ‘09. Can’t wait to see what happens!

Back to my card games to unwind for the night. What a shocker this was! :eek:

[laprofesora]

in a good economy, I might agree. however, in a precarious economy, companies in discretionary spending markets (e.g., cruising) need to keep - not alienate - their loyal customers who cruise multiple times per year.

 

I understand RC needs to pay for new ship construction and that (in addition to fuel expense) is the likely reason behind many of the recent cost-cutting measures. But they won't have any customers for their shiny new ships if their reputation winds up in the dumper.

 

I hope that is the least of their problems. They and other wonderful leisure and travel dreams may get blown out of the water. Oh boy blown out of the water sounds crazy when talking about cruise ships. I hope in the next few months we do not see a domino effect. All those big cruise ships that are being built might be similar to what is happening for some people in the housing market. We live in Connecticut and have two beautiful casinos. Mohegan Sun was in the middle of a big expansion. The equipment was there and things were being built. Two days ago it was announced that all building is being put on hold for the next twelve months. This is very scary.

[Ocean Boy]

Earth to you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! People who recently booked cruises(within the last few weeks) have been able to get shareholder benefits, along with C&A balcony discount and NC obcs. Does anyone on here know for sure the wording the op posted is new or has it always said that?

 

Well let's all keep this thread going so we can all point out to RCI what their fine print says, as opposed to what they are currently doing.

 

Do you ever post anything without the suggestion of an attitude to go with it?

 

And, as you can see, the wording has been supplied to you by critterchick.

[emmy]

Have been reading and following this thread

 

I am one of those that emailed this past weekend for the shareholder credit to be applied to a cruise I had just booked for Nov 8/08 and for my Oasis cruise in 2010... within 24 hours an email arrived saying "the requested shareholder credit has been applied to both reservation numbers'

 

Both of these bookings were done with Next Cruise.

[shipshape sam]

Interesting that RCI is cutting back on the combinability of benefits just as Princess is increasing them. If it went into effect on 7/1, they haven't been enforcing it - I was able to combine it with onboard booking and a special promotion on an Azamara cruise.

 

We have a number of combined benefits already in place through next November. I'm assuming that they won't withdraw already-promised OBCs.

 

One reason we've stayed loyal to Royal is that the benefits, when combined, drove the price of a cruise down to the point where it was competitive with Princess' offerings. If that's no longer the case, we will be looking harder at the competition, as the differences between the two lines are otherwise miniscule to us.

 

As capecodrealtor said, it was a nice run while it lasted.

 

 

It is also interesting that Princess is apparently the beneficiary of another RCL policy change... changing itineraries to save fuel, especially Panama Canal. I am amazed at all the changes RCL in making. They are not stupid people(RCL upper management), so they must have calculated the cost/lost of customers/revenues and decided it still made economic sense.

 

I like RCL/Celebrity and sail them for the cruise experience. I just hope they do not dumb it down too much or price it where it begins to lose its competitive advantage over lots of land based vacations.

 

I do have to admit that I now am taking more land based trips for two reasons: variety and convience. The airlines for me have not helped cruising as I fly to most ports for our cruises.

[con3]

Emmy-thanks for letting us know that! We emailed our request yesterday and have SBC through a group, I'm hoping to hear somthing back today.

[hmsdos]

Do not get upset.... there is a lot of "mis-information" being presented and repeated.... At this time the shareholder credit is still being applied! I cannot (will not) predict the future... but right now RCI/RCCL has not taken that benefit away! Please call and confirm this (or ask your TA to do so) with Royal... I am sure all posters are just trying to inform and stay informed... but on this one verify facts with the Company before getting stressed.

[sas80]

As soon as we start to read posts about RCCL definitely not letting people combine OBC offers, we are dumping the stock.

 

It wont be a knee jerk reaction (we're not as willy-nilly as that) but we will definitely be looking for a good time to sell...

[grandsix]

I think they are reasoning that the type of person this is most likely to cause to switch to another line is the person pooling every type of discount available and then limiting their on board spending to approximately the amount of the OBC they managed to accrue. They actually lose money on such a passenger. So long as they are not struggling to fill their ships limiting the amount of free OBC they hand out helps their revenues. People who are truly loyal to Royal Caribbean are not likely to jump ship because they can no longer combine multiple discounts; they cruise Royal Caribbean because they like the overall product, not just the amount of money they can cut off the total cruise cost.

 

We believe you are hopelessly wrong on why people switch lines or what constitutes a profitable cruise customer. You would be a bit surprised on why loyal guests change lines.

 

A BUSINESS, ESPECIALLY IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY WILL LOSE WHEN THEY TAKE AWAY BENEFITS FROM THEIR EMPLOYEES OR CUSTOMERS.

[Gonzo70]

Gonzo, are you on the RCL Board?. [i’ve read other posts inquiring about this! LOL.]

 

I am not sure what you mean by that. Because I feel that Royal Caribbean has to cut costs/raise revenues because they are in massive debt during difficult economic times and overall I think they are doing a fairly good job at it means I work for the board?!? :confused:

[Gonzo70]

 

Seems counter productive to eliminate this program, aggravate stockholders AND customers at the same time.

 

Hopefully they will correct this obvious error.:( :( :( :(

 

People who own 100 shares are not really "stock holders" in the view of a major company. With such a large float, 100 shares are insignificant. This policy has not received any press, so it has not likely had any direct impact on the stock. The stock will be impacted by whether or not this policy leads to better or worse earnings. I personally think that limiting OBC will lead to better not worse earnings (therefore being a positive to the institutions who hold large amounts of shares), but I could be wrong.

[jmraggs]

When they start enforcing these "new" rules is when I'll really be disappointed, which will probably be very soon I am afraid. I enjoy both the OBC for booking on board in addition to the OBC for the stock. If they don't let you combine them, then there is no use in obtaining the "Next Cruise" booking since I already have the stock for the OBC. Both OBC's would be the same, so it wouldn't matter picking one over the other.

 

I realize things do change and "good things" don't stay around forever, but I can still let them know how unhappy I am if they start enforcing it. Much of the OBC goes against the tips anyway, which isn't coming out of RCL's pocket.

 

I originally purchased the stock because I thought it was a good buy at the time and truly believe in their product. Even if they remove the combinations, I'll still sail with RCL because I enjoy the cruise experience they provide unless they take more away, then I might think about trying other lines for comparison.

[sas80]

Funny how that works!!!! :rolleyes: There will either be no point in getting Next Cruises anymore, or in keeping the stock for the OBC. I know I will drop one of those things. Most likely the stock, because now I am mad.:mad: There have been too many cost-cutting changes too fast - all of which negatively impact the customer in some way.

 

I cold have always made more money off of the cash I paid for the stock by investing it in other places. I just personally liked the added perk of the combine-able shareholder's credit.

 

If they are going to enforce this, when you factor in how RCCL stock performs, it really makes no sense to hold it anymore.

 

If they enforce this the stock will definitely be sold.

 

Too many changes, too much uncertainty, too many surcharges.... We are diamond, have one next cruise booked, and one more certificate to use and then might just seriously re evaluate our options as I am already looking at cruising other lines and becoming one of the "Was Loyal to Royal" people.

[silentbob007]

Every day, booking onboard seems to get less and less worthwhile.

[sas80]

Originally Posted by Gonzo70

I think they are reasoning that the type of person this is most likely to cause to switch to another line is the person pooling every type of discount available and then limiting their on board spending to approximately the amount of the OBC they managed to accrue. They actually lose money on such a passenger. So long as they are not struggling to fill their ships limiting the amount of free OBC they hand out helps their revenues. People who are truly loyal to Royal Caribbean are not likely to jump ship because they can no longer combine multiple discounts; they cruise Royal Caribbean because they like the overall product, not just the amount of money they can cut off the total cruise cost.

 

 

A BUSINESS, ESPECIALLY IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY WILL LOSE WHEN THEY TAKE AWAY BENEFITS FROM THEIR EMPLOYEES OR CUSTOMERS.

 

I agree with both of you. I think you both have valid and applicable points.

 

The question is - which point, historically speaking, tends to have the larger following?

 

With the economy the way it is, and a 700 billion bailout by the government :rolleyes: my guess is that middle to lower-income upper class people might start to gravitate towards saving pennies over spending more money to remain loyal.

[grandsix]

People who own 100 shares are not really "stock holders" in the view of a major company. With such a large float, 100 shares are insignificant. This policy has not received any press, so it has not likely had any direct impact on the stock. The stock will be impacted by whether or not this policy leads to better or worse earnings. I personally think that limiting OBC will lead to better not worse earnings (therefore being a positive to the institutions who hold large amounts of shares), but I could be wrong.

 

Once again "Gonzo" we believe you are hopelessly wrong. Just ask Mr. Fain if he believes stockholders who own 100 shares are not really "stock holders" and are insignificant.

[NCMtnBoys]

My guess is they will soon stop honoring price drops that occur after final payment.

 

I think they should disallow the transfer of the booking to a TA. Most people do that right before final payment, JUST to get the OBC, which as you've said, causes RCCL to have to pay that TA commission. That TA did NONE of the work for the reservation, they just reap the benefit (as does the customer).

 

I am one who, for the most part, books directly with RCCL and DOES NOT transfer my booking from RCCL to a TA. I'd much prefer to have total control over my reservation when I call RCCL than to have to go thru a TA. The only time I've booked with a TA is when the TAs used to offer cruises for less than what you could get from RCCL. Since RCCL put a stop to that, I just book directly with them now, knowing I've got the best price available.

 

I don't own RCCL stock and am a Platinum Crown and Anchor member. I just look for the good deal and if I do get some OBC (as I will on my upcoming Liberty cruise from my B of A Visa), that's an added bonus. I do think that RCCL has always been VERY generous with allowing the reservation to be transferred to a TA; giving price reductions, even after final payment; allowing OBC to be combined; C & A discounts/coupons and other OBC opportunities. Frankly, I'm surprised their generosity has lasted this long.

 

I will continue to sail RCCL regardless of their changes. I LIKE their ships and their product. I've only ever sailed RCCL and have no plans to try other lines.

[FL_Cruiser64]

Once again "Gonzo" we believe you are hopelessly wrong. Just ask Mr. Fain if he believes stockholders who own 100 shares are not really "stock holders" and are insignificant.

 

Why would anybody ask Mr Fain anything? He is a "need new ship" kinda guy. Lots of innovation in his mind but business? Heck no.

 

Why is everybody hacking on Gonzo?

[Gonzo70]

Once again "Gonzo" we believe you are hopelessly wrong. Just ask Mr. Fain if he believes stockholders who own 100 shares are not really "stock holders" and are insignificant.

 

The "public" answer he would give to such a question might be quite different than his true belief!

 

People need to realize that selling 100 shares does not punish Royal Caribbean. If you want to sell because you have better places to put the money, that is great. Selling out of anger to try and punish RCL only punishes yourself. The only way to sell 100 shares is to have someone buy those 100 shares and selling 100 shares is insufficient to move the price of the stock.

[Gonzo70]

I think they should disallow the transfer of the booking to a TA. Most people do that right before final payment, JUST to get the OBC, which as you've said, causes RCCL to have to pay that TA commission. That TA did NONE of the work for the reservation, they just reap the benefit (as does the customer).

 

I am one who, for the most part, books directly with RCCL and DOES NOT transfer my booking from RCCL to a TA. I'd much prefer to have total control over my reservation when I call RCCL than to have to go thru a TA. The only time I've booked with a TA is when the TAs used to offer cruises for less than what you could get from RCCL. Since RCCL put a stop to that, I just book directly with them now.

 

I don't own RCCL stock and am a Platinum Crown and Anchor member. I just look for the good deal and if I do get some OBC (as I will on my upcoming Liberty cruise from my B of A Visa), that's an added bonus. I do think that RCCL has always been VERY generous with allowing the reservation to be transferred to a TA; giving price reductions, even after final payment; allowing OBC to be combined; C & A discounts/coupons and other OBC opportunities. Frankly, I'm surprised their generosity has lasted this long.

 

I will continue to sail RCCL regardless of their changes. I LIKE their ships and their product. I've only ever sailed RCCL and have no plans to try other lines.

 

Well stated! Finally someone who agrees for the most part with my point of view (I was beginning to think i was the only one)! Hopefully they won't start flaming you too! ;)

 

I agree they should not permit transferring to travel agents close to time of final payment (although I must admit I have been guilty of doing this in order to obtain $300 OBC for my last cruise).

 

IMHO RCL has been extremely generous in allowing so many different types of discounts/price cuts/OBC's etc. to be granted on a single sailing. This is far from the norm for how most businesses operate. Limiting discounts has no impact on the quality of their ships or the service they provide. While it is furstrating for those of us accustomed to the discounts (myself included), looking at it objectively I fully understand what they are doing here and find it to be both necessary and logical.

[Gonzo70]

Why is everybody hacking on Gonzo?

 

Thanks. :D

 

I seem to be the whipping boy for people to take their anger out about the new policy since I am one of the few who think that from a business perspective it is a good policy. :eek:

[papakaiser]

Thanks. :D

 

I seem to be the whipping boy for people to take their anger out about the new policy since I am one of the few who think that from a business perspective it is a good policy. :eek:

Well Gonzo, I won't whip on you. Over the long run, it might make sense to make this kind of a move.

 

But I see a stock sale in my future.

[jmraggs]

My TA called me this morning and told me that he had called the shareholder benefit department this morning and talked with them. They confirmed that the policy had changed and are no longer allowing the combination, but when they start enforcing it will be another story. Seems that they are not happy with this decision from a "higher up" either, and they suggested that if people are unhappy, the best thing to do is to send an email to investor relations and let them know:

 

investorrelations@rccl.com

I remember that in the past that they had started charging for ice skating etc. until enough people complained, and then they opened it up as a "no charge" venue. This is a little different thou, and as a shareholder, I would rather have them do this to reduce costs than have the stock decrease even more or even up the fuel charge more.

[notree]

Yall may think Ol Notree went off the deep end so to speak but I went out and purchased me 100 shares of RCL. It pays a small dividend and there is a potential for some gain and I like to buy what product I enjoy. I also am going a cruiseing on the Voyager on January 11/09. I took advantage of the senior discount and also a C&A certificate. I just sent in all the stuff to see if I get the OBC along with the other. Notree

[emmy]

My TA called me this morning and told me that he had called the shareholder benefit department this morning and talked with them. They confirmed that the policy had changed and are no longer allowing the combination, but when they start enforcing it will be another story. Seems that they are not happy with this decision from a "higher up" either, and they suggested that if people are unhappy, the best thing to do is to send an email to investor relations and let them know:

 

investorrelations@rccl.com

 

I remember that in the past that they had started charging for ice skating etc. until enough people complained, and then they opened it up as a "no charge" venue. This is a little different thou, and as a shareholder, I would rather have them do this to reduce costs than have the stock decrease even more or even up the fuel charge more.

 

Thank you for posting this info.

 

So what combinations would be allowed if any...

 

Shareholder with Platinum/Diamond Discount...yes or no?

 

I understand that savings certificates, NC Booking or just onboard booking S/B credits are NOT with shareholder with this new 'rule'

 

My issue with this new rule is that there needs to be consistency. I don't want to come back here 1 year from now and have someone say " I was able to combine" If they are going to impliment it then be consistent with this rule and the others that are out there.

 

Example of inconsistencies... 3 people in my family booked a cruise this last month all using next Cruise bookings... 2 were before the Nov 16 fuel surcharge date...1 had no fuel surcharge added, 1 had the full $10. added and the other had only $8. per day added since she did hers when it was $8. per day.

 

I just hope that when and if this rule goes into effect they are consistent in enforcing it.