Glory Passenger drowns while Cave Tubing in Belize

[lovebug33]

I posted something on the other thread, but I was also thinking about knowing your ability level. When the guy finally rescued us from the river in Utah, he laughed at us when we said DH almost drowned and we were stranded. He said he could have done this river no problem at all. Yeah, he had just river rafted down the most dangerous river in America! I guess what I am saying is that if you have no athletic ability or you come from the desert, probably cave tubing wouldn't be the best choice, just to be safe. And, to go with your instincts. DH and I didn't think we should go on the trip, but we did because we felt stupid saying we were scared. I will say, I am going to show this to Mom and Dad and see if my Dad, who can't swim, and my mom, who is terrified of water, are still thinking it's a good idea to go cave tubing in Belize. I think that might be a no.

[Nebr.cruiser]

We went with Yhonny two years ago in Dec. and felt completely safe at all times--it actually seemed like a very mild ride to me. But, that was probably partly because my husband and I are very strong swimmers, partly because the river wasn't really high (though it had been closed to tubing a couple of days earlier), but mostly because our guides took care of us so well. We had 4-6 people in each group, hooked together, with a guide--and sometimes two--for each group. We absolutely never came close to the walls or felt any sense of danger or fear.

 

A ship tour was getting into the water at the same time as us. I believe, but am not certain, that this was a Princess tour, as we were on Princess. It was chaos. While we were helped into our tubes and sent safely across, people in the ship's tour were forced to struggle into their tubes and sent away with no direction. People were drifting away, far from others, slipping and falling in while getting in the tubes, calling for help, etc. It looked like there were 30-40 people and very few guides. My husband even saw a baby kind of flung to his parents by a guide!

 

Accidents can happen anywhere, and while I am not going to live my life in constant fear and refrain from mild adventures (yes, we zip-lined in Roatan, too), because of a terrible accident, I believe we all need to do some research, be aware of our limitations and do the best that we can to have fun as safely as possible.

 

I think part of the problem here is that many people expect the ship's tours to be better and safer than private tours and this is often not the case. These cruise critic boards do a valuable service in helping us choose reputable, safe operators and learn about pitfalls and danger.

 

My heart goes out to the family; what a terrible tragedy.

[tiggerlover]

We went with Yhonny two years ago in Dec. and felt completely safe at all times--it actually seemed like a very mild ride to me. But, that was probably partly because my husband and I are very strong swimmers, partly because the river wasn't really high (though it had been closed to tubing a couple of days earlier), but mostly because our guides took care of us so well. We had 4-6 people in each group, hooked together, with a guide--and sometimes two--for each group. We absolutely never came close to the walls or felt any sense of danger or fear.

 

A ship tour was getting into the water at the same time as us. I believe, but am not certain, that this was a Princess tour, as we were on Princess. It was chaos. While we were helped into our tubes and sent safely across, people in the ship's tour were forced to struggle into their tubes and sent away with no direction. People were drifting away, far from others, slipping and falling in while getting in the tubes, calling for help, etc. It looked like there were 30-40 people and very few guides. My husband even saw a baby kind of flung to his parents by a guide!

 

Accidents can happen anywhere, and while I am not going to live my life in constant fear and refrain from mild adventures (yes, we zip-lined in Roatan, too), because of a terrible accident, I believe we all need to do some research, be aware of our limitations and do the best that we can to have fun as safely as possible.

 

I think part of the problem here is that many people expect the ship's tours to be better and safer than private tours and this is often not the case. These cruise critic boards do a valuable service in helping us choose reputable, safe operators and learn about pitfalls and danger.

 

My heart goes out to the family; what a terrible tragedy.

 

 

 

 

I agree with your post. We also cruised last year with Yhonny and never felt a moment's panic. The guides put our group at ease and kept track of us every step of the way. Your advice about doing your research before you go and knowing your limitations is absolutely correct. Before we did this excursion last year we were petrified after reading some of the comments on this board. Our fear was more about snakes and spiders. :eek: After arriving for this excursion our fears were put to rest and nothing we imagined came to pass.

Remember there was a tour that was hijacked and robbed in Jamaica, so even "playing it safe" has its risks too.

I think we all have to make our own informed decision and aren't you glad that we live in a country where we have the right to choose for ourselves what that might be?

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family at this time, as well as those that were affected by this tragedy.

[frednsb]

Wow, 2 weeks ago we were in Belize on the Western from the Glory and went cave tubing, not the ship excursion. I thought the river was too low and the guides did more pulling then we actually went with the current. Now I'm thinking it was better that way. The guides we had kept us far away from the sides of the cave and at no time did I feel I was in danger. This is a horrible thing to have happened at anytime, especially while on vacation.

 

I was on the same cruise and my wife, brother, sister-in-law, and myself also went cave tubing. The river seemed really low at the time!!!

[frednsb]

As a past Glory passenger who did the cave tubing, it really does not surprise me that this happened. There was 8 of us and we went with Nacho for the tubing. We had two quides, one in the front of our "train" and one in the back. We hooked our feet together and the quides pulled us through. We all had our life jackets on and coal mining type lights on our heads. We pushed off at the same spot as the ship excursion passengers did. The ship people did not have lights, or life jackets. They just floated along helter skelter through the cave without anyone helping them through. Okay, we were in the cave about 45 minutes, it was dark and they had no lights! -- go figure. Toward the end of the cave there was a pretty fast rapid and the ship people were going nuts trying to get out of the eddy while out guide took us wide and brought us in safe and sound. It just did not make sense to me why they let the passengers just float along without watching or keeping track of them. There was a bunch of them too. I think I remember there being 2 bus loads of them. I assume they did a head count at the end but who knows.

I just cave tube witha Carnival excursion two weeks ago and we all had cave lamps and life jackets. Many people opted not to wear ty\heir jackets though!

[Timmys_mom]

Wow, I must have been in Belize during the "slow water" time. I remember the trip being very benign and dull - well, except for the "everyone turn your lamps off in the cave" part. I didn't like that. I just remember thinking that the "rapids" were nothing like the rapids we experience on the Apple River.

 

The problem here seems to be that the river is somewhat unpredictable in its flow. There is a wet season and a dry season, but a heavy rain inland can cause it to swell and move a bit faster. Just because Person A experienced high, fast water, does not mean Person B will.

 

Bottom line - tube at your own risk, and only you can measure that risk. But that applies to EVERY excursion out there.

[Kurbanfan]

Well hopefully the investigation will find out if this accident could have been prevented and measures taken in the future to avoid another one.

Let's not forget the husband of the woman reported they both were fit marathon runners, so it doesn't look like they did not have the ability to do this excursion.

My heart goes out to the family!

[golfadj]

Horrible to go on a cruise and something like this happens.

 

We did this tour with Cave Tubing about 2 years ago and the descriptions made it sound like a very slow and leisurely float down the river.

 

My wife is not a swimmer and I talked her into it saying how nice and easy it is.

 

Cave Tubing turned us over (about 12 people) to a guide who I believe worked for the park.

 

Going thru the rope bridge to the other side of the river was somewhat difficult due to the water current. However there were quite a few people there to help us get accross.

 

We walked about a half mile upstream and the guide had us link feet to make chains of 2 or 3 tubes. I think we had life jackets but not sure.

 

The water was low and generally very mild current and several times had to get up and walk for a bit.

 

Always felt very safe during the ride.

 

To the best of my knowledge this was sold as an easy relaxing ride and apparently it changes drastically when water levels rise.

 

Carnival and the private tour guides should do a better job explaining risks in high water times. Also this had made me realize I need to do a better job learning about the risks in this type of tour.

 

I wonder how many people get seriously hurt at Dunns River Falls in Jamaica by falling onto the rocks. That was also much more difficult than I was led to believe.

 

Last cruise a young father of 3 was swept out to sea from an undertow and drowned.

 

Lets be careful out there people.

 

Golfadj

[glory_cruiser]

My husband and I were on this excursion - one group in front of the one which had the tragic accident. Without even knowing what was going on behind us, I was terrified the entire ride. It was not possible to control the tube - front stroke, back stroke, side stroke - whatever stroke! We bumped into many and many bumped into us. People were hanging from rocks, caught in whirlpools, and fretting the same as me. Nobody should have been allowed on the river that day. Even the groups who were tied together through the .com site should have waited until the water had receded more. Why risk it? Let's face it, the tour group companies didn't want to lose the money for the day so they pushed the limits. This was supposed to be a 45 minute lazy river ride so we could explore the cave and surrounding rain forest. In reality it was a ten minute panic-ride.

[cusyl]

My husband and I were on this excursion - one group in front of the one which had the tragic accident. Without even knowing what was going on behind us, I was terrified the entire ride. It was not possible to control the tube - front stroke, back stroke, side stroke - whatever stroke! We bumped into many and many bumped into us. People were hanging from rocks, caught in whirlpools, and fretting the same as me. Nobody should have been allowed on the river that day. Even the groups who were tied together through the .com site should have waited until the water had receded more. Why risk it? Let's face it, the tour group companies didn't want to lose the money for the day so they pushed the limits. This was supposed to be a 45 minute lazy river ride so we could explore the cave and surrounding rain forest. In reality it was a ten minute panic-ride.

Welcome to Cruise Critic. Thank you for your report on this excursion. I'm glad you got safely through the cave. It sounds terrifying.

[MeloDrew]

I am so sorry for the loss, it is so sad to hear that a tragedy occurred.:( My wife and I just went cave tubing the first week of September with Cavetubing.com and we would like to say the following:

 

1. Cavetubing.com is by far a superior company and at no time did we ever feel in danger. We had the time of our life. Yhony and his crew of employees never leave you stranded and are very alert to what is going on having your safety in mind keeping everyone that is tubing together and going in the safest direction.

 

2. Unfortunately while we were cave tubing we saw people who had booked with the cruise lines and were basically lost and stranded with out a guide. The cruise people basically let people go off by themselves. My wife and I are extremely adventurous but you couldn't pay us to go through those caves alone.

 

3. We heard the story on the local news and felt the need to share this information so that Cavetubing.com does not get a bad reputation. We love Carnival Cruise lines however this is a poor reflection on how they handle their shore excursions. Not only do they cost twice as much but most of them are poorly executed. The cave tubing is a key example.

[DG2004]

we were scheduled to do cave tubing this past week (the day after this tragedy actually) and heard that Carnival had cancelled all the cave tubing excursions.

We were going to go through a private company, but got to the port a little late and didn’t really think we’d have the time to get there and back so we got a driver who told us that when the rivers are high it is very dangerous to go tubing…which is when we found out about the person dying

My heart goes out to the family

[aliguaytor5]

Sorry to hear about the accident. My family did this tour with a private operator last February and felt safe. The one question I would have is was the person wearing their lifejacket? I know on our tour, and other tours that I saw when I went, many people were just holding their lifejackets.

 

 

I was on the excursion the day this happened. I booked my excursion with Carnival. For those of you who are wondering, I am under the assumption that Carnival uses Bel-Cruises for their excursions. There were 39 people in my group and only 2 tour guides. In Belize the law is 1 tour guide for 8 people. I wish I had known this before hand. The woman was wearing a life vest, however, we were told by our tour guides that if the strong mildew smell bothered us we could tie the vest around our waists or wear it loosely. When she came up, I have heard that her vest was no longer on her. Many other people were pulled under the water that day, and they were rescued primarily by the cave-tubing.com group. This group had one tour guide for every 8 people and all of their customers were fine. The person who performed CPR on Mrs. Linan was a Cruise ship passenger. It was a terrifying experience. Outside the cave my group tipped and I was trapped under water for a period of time. I could see about 3 feet of water above my head and I still could not touch the bottom of the river, so the water level was very high. For those of you who have been on the trip when the water levels are lower, you know that it should take about 45 to an hour and a half. From the time we put our tubes in the water, to the time we reached the end point, only 15-20 minutes had passed. Someone needs to be held accountable for this, and it isn't the woman or her family. We were told we would be safe, and that booking with outside groups was unsafe. Funny thing is, the outside groups were cheaper than Carnivals company, they had more guides, and their guides were trained to handle this situation. I wonder how much Carnival profits off of this excursion?

[aliguaytor5]

My husband and I were on this excursion - one group in front of the one which had the tragic accident. Without even knowing what was going on behind us, I was terrified the entire ride. It was not possible to control the tube - front stroke, back stroke, side stroke - whatever stroke! We bumped into many and many bumped into us. People were hanging from rocks, caught in whirlpools, and fretting the same as me. Nobody should have been allowed on the river that day. Even the groups who were tied together through the .com site should have waited until the water had receded more. Why risk it? Let's face it, the tour group companies didn't want to lose the money for the day so they pushed the limits. This was supposed to be a 45 minute lazy river ride so we could explore the cave and surrounding rain forest. In reality it was a ten minute panic-ride.

 

I was in the group directly behind the group that got stuck. I was actually pulled under the water outside of the cave and had serious trouble finding my way to the surface. I have contacted CNN and spoken to a woman in the newsroom, I am awaiting a reply. This tragedy needs to be told. Our lives were risked by Carnival Cruise Lines and Bel-Cruises to make a buck. I am trying to gather as much information as I can and names and phone numbers would help. If you feel comfortable giving me this information would greatly appreciate it. You can email me at aguay@movgal.com and I will reply with my phone number if you would like.

[aliguaytor5]

I was in the group directly behind the group that got stuck. I was actually pulled under the water outside of the cave and had serious trouble finding my way to the surface. I have contacted CNN and spoken to a woman in the newsroom, I am awaiting a reply. This tragedy needs to be told. Our lives were risked by Carnival Cruise Lines and Bel-Cruises to make a buck. I am trying to gather as much information as I can and names and phone numbers would help. If you feel comfortable giving me this information would greatly appreciate it. You can email me at aguay@movgal.com and I will reply with my phone number if you would like.

 

 

If there is anyone else out there that was on the excursion this day or has had similar experiences booking through Carnival Cruise Lines I would really appreciate your story. I am not confident that Carnival will follow up completely on their investigation as in the end, I believe they will find themselves at fault for being negligent. I have contacted my local news and CNN and I think that our stories need to be heard. We were on vacation and many of you experienced a tragic event that I know will be with you always. Many of you witnessed this first hand. I know that it is something we would all like to be able to put behind us, but after reading some of these posts, I know that this has been a problem for years. I have contacted Yhony who was there on Wednesday with his group from cave-tubing.com. As many of you know, these were the people who were rescuing the Carnival group. Yhony and his guides were safe and prepared and unfortunately he will lose business because of this tragedy. I know that had we had the proper amount of experienced tour guides required BY LAW in Belize, this woman would still be alive and many of you would not have experienced the traumatic events you did this day. We were all put at risk and lied to. We were told we would be safe and instead we were set loose without guidance. Please email me your stories and if you are willing, your contact information. A family losts a mother on Wednesday and many of you saw this all occur. Please help me bring this to the publics attention. Prior to taking this cruise I was unaware that these forums existed, and I can promise you that other people do not know about this site as well. You can email me at aguay@movgal.com

 

Thank you.

[MrPete]

3.We love Carnival Cruise lines however this is a poor reflection on how they handle their shore excursions. Not only do they cost twice as much but most of them are poorly executed. The cave tubing is a key example.

 

Which disturbs me when I read that Carnival has a monopoly on certain tours at certain locations. Not here, I see.

 

I like to have an alternative to a ship run tour, and be able to make my OWN decision as to which tour, if any, I choose to go on.

[crowepilot]

Hi to all,

 

I actually was cave tubing the day of this tragic death and was on the Carnival Glory with this guest. I did not know of the death until the letter came out that night, and was very sad to hear of the accident.

 

That said, I think it would be sad to see people not go on this excursion in the future because of this accident. I did not go on the cruise line sponsored trip. Instead we went with a group called cavetubing.com and I can honestly say that these guys were top notch. On our 45 minute ride out to the site our tour guides informed us of all the risks involved and then continued by explaining to us how they do things to avoid and overcome the risks. These guys made sure we were safe at all times. Durring the tubing, we were in groups of 16 tubers with a guide in the front and in the rear of our group. We all made a chain by linking ourselves together. This I believe is the safest way to do this.

 

Our guides did inform us that the water was higher than normal, but not to worry because their methods would keep us safe. At no time did I, or anyone else in my group feel unsafe.

 

I will say that about halfway through the river, we did see another tuber that was with one of the cruise line groups get into trouble. He got away from his group and got sucked under and actually had his tube popped. One of our guides helped him and gave him his tube. At that point our guide went the rest of the way without a tube.

 

I highly recomend cavetubing.com to anyone that wants to safely do this excursion. Please don't skip this tour if you want to do it. For the ladies, our tour guides carried all the ladies tubes...a big plus since there is quite a long walk involved. These guys worked their butts off.

 

Hope this is usefull to someone!

[NCTribeFan]

Interesting. The original link states that "most" tours were cancelled that day, but it appears the dot com still made the trip. Does anyone know if Major Tom had cancelled?

 

I don't believe Carnival is to blame for this other than they contracted with the independent tour company. It has to be the tour company who makes the decisions as to whether any given excursion should be undertaken. I've been on sailings where snorkeling or parasailing booked through the ship were cancelled due to weather conditions, but you could disembark and immediately sign up to do the same thing with an independent guide.

 

Seems to me that it's the tour operators who were understaffed, and not requiring people to wear their life jackets.

 

Why would I not go zip lining yet I'd go cave tubing again?

 

Because I doubt I'd survive a 40' drop whereas if I were cave tubing in a group, wearing my life vest, surrounded by competent guides, I think chances of survival would be pretty good.

 

I'm aware of the risks. If the others on my Roll Call want to do it, I'll do it. If not, I'll probably do a different excursion, since I like to see new places and do new things each time I visit a port.

[thesawch]

I would do the cave tubing without hesitation during lower river levels.I also would stick with Major Tom or one of the other respected cavetubing companys as Major Tom is on of the pioneers of the tubing industry and helped make the tubing laws law. Major Tom is the only one i have dealed with so he is the only one i can recommend.Thesawch

[fabulousmindy]

Interesting. The original link states that "most" tours were cancelled that day, but it appears the dot com still made the trip. Does anyone know if Major Tom had cancelled?

 

I don't believe Carnival is to blame for this other than they contracted with the independent tour company. It has to be the tour company who makes the decisions as to whether any given excursion should be undertaken. I've been on sailings where snorkeling or parasailing booked through the ship were cancelled due to weather conditions, but you could disembark and immediately sign up to do the same thing with an independent guide.

 

Seems to me that it's the tour operators who were understaffed, and not requiring people to wear their life jackets.

 

Why would I not go zip lining yet I'd go cave tubing again?

 

Because I doubt I'd survive a 40' drop whereas if I were cave tubing in a group, wearing my life vest, surrounded by competent guides, I think chances of survival would be pretty good.

 

I'm aware of the risks. If the others on my Roll Call want to do it, I'll do it. If not, I'll probably do a different excursion, since I like to see new places and do new things each time I visit a port.

 

 

I don't know who said most tours were canceled, we were there that day and the river was pretty crowded. We took Major Tom and were very happy. We had one guide for 6 of us and we felt very safe.

 

When we were getting out of the river we saw youg kids with no life jackets getting in and struggling with the current. Carnival needs to keep a better eye on the operators. I can't believe they have photography but aren't monitoring for safety.

 

There is a fitness level required for this activity, hiking, swimming and strength. Our guides were devastated by what happened in their country and were certain that with better supervision it would not have happened.

[gday12345]

We were there on Sept. 18th. The water was also very high that day. We did the excursion with Yhonny and while we came to this same area there was a group that had gotten stranded on the wrong side of the cave. There was a major attempt to rescue them as we were safely guided through by our guides. We held the big lights on them to assist as long as we could. I don't know the outcome but several emergency vehicles were approaching as we left the park. I felt completely safe with Yhonny's group as they physically guided us to the right side and had previously warned us about the area and the high water. At that time Carnival had cancelled their excursions but this link states it was a Carnival booked excursion.

 

 

http://www.wftv.com/news/17577889/detail.html

[xrdan]

We were there Sept 18th as well. We were on Enchantment and had booked with Yhonny as well. The big group going going through ahead of us was a disaster- people jammed up into corners, banging their heads, going under, etc. Their guides were screaming at them from a distance. I'm surprised no one drowned that day.

 

Also- let me add to the positive comments about the dot com group. My sons and I felt safe the whole time and enjoyed Yhonny's insight on the walk and in the caves. Highly recommended.

 

Dan

[Flare]

I was on the Legend last week, and we arrived at Belize on the 25, the day after the accident. Carnival had already cancelled the cave tours, and when we got of the tinder and met Yhony, we were told that all cave tours were cancelled because the river was closed by their national park system and found out what had happened on the day prior. About 10 minutes later, while we were standing around trying to decide what to do, one of Yhony's guides came back in the terminal to tell us that the river was now open, and we could go on the .com tour now if we wanted to. Obviously now skeptcal, we went and talked to Yhony about it. He assured us that everything was safe, but offered told us that we could cancel with no problems, or that we could even ride to the cave tubing site, and if we got there, saw the river, and still didn't feel safe, then we could cancel with no charge. After discussing among my group, and based on the recommendations we had received here on cruisecritic, we decided to go ahead and do the tour.

 

We had a group of 8, including my 11-year old, and felt safe the entire time. I'd go back and do the tour with Yhony again anyday. They are very safe throughout their entire tour, and it seemed like they had as many guides as there were passengers. They were very cautious, and they showed us the place where the passenger had gotten trapped the previous day. There were still several life jackets and tubes stuck over there in the whirlpool.

 

My deepest sympathies to the family that suffered the loss...I can't even imagine how it feels to have your dream vacation end that way.

[Patneeds2cruise]

My DH and I along with 3 other couples from our Cruise Critic roll call were in the cave-tubing.com group on this day in Belize. We did see several people in trouble from other groups. We did not witness the accident, got there after it had happened. When we came through the cave, the woman was up on the rocks and several people were gathered around her and someone was performing CPR. We really couldn't tell if it was a man, woman, or child because there were so many around her. Our wonderful guides stopped us and told us to remain very quiet and calm and we did that. After they got us stationary, one of our guides went over and offered assistance. He came right back and told us that it was too late. So we then left the cave. We were all very quiet after that. Definitely makes you think.

 

We were all linked together by our feet and in one big group side-by-side with rows of 8-10 people. I think we had about 30 people total. We had four guides, one on each side and one in the front and one in the back. I never felt unsafe in any way. The guides were constantly with us the whole time and within speaking distance if we needed anything. Yhonny runs a very professional and safe excursion. They did inform us that the river was very high and fast that day before the tour started. We also saw our guides assisting other people who had been abandoned by their guides/group.

 

Not that it really matters but we paid $75 to ride ATVs and do the cave tubing. They also provided bottled water if we wanted it and fed us free homemade tamales after the excursion. Carnival charged $95 for just the cave tubing. The reason I booked with Yhonny was because of the reviews I had read from others who had done his tour and from exploring his website. It pays to do a little research especially if you want to keep your family members as safe as possible and still have a great time.

 

I would not hesitate to do the dot com tour again if I ever get to go back to Belize.

[tiggerlover]

Last year while on the Glory we did the cavetubing while we were in Belize. We had a great time. We booked thru cavetubing.com and never felt a moment's fear. Our guides were very informative as well as attentive to our every need. Our tubes were even toted by the guides while we treked thru the rainforest! We were linked together in the water and a guide pushed/pulled us along. I think any time you travel you need to be well informed as well as cautious. We researched this excursion thoroughly and were pleased with our trip. :p

I hope everyone will take note of this tragedy but most of all, I hope everyone will not let fear take over their lives in regards to choices they make while cruising. Please let common sense prevail and if you think ziplining or cavetubing is something you would like to do, then do it! Just err on the side of caution and if something just doesn't seem right, don't do it! :eek:

Remember, there is a little thing called FATE or aka DESTINY that has a nasty way of rearing its head when we least expect it. Unfortunately, we could drop dead at any moment or get killed or injured on the way to the ship, so even though tragedy struck on this excursion, I choose to make informed decisions and use common sense while I go about my daily life. As someone previously posted, if someone is found to be negligent in this incident then they will be punished, but until then, let's not let mass hysteria and rumors cloud our judgement. :)