I know I sound sound like an old fart but...

[HappyStamper]

At the risk of sounding like my grandma I have to ask- Don't men wear suits for important occasions anymore? I am surprised by the number of posts that start with "My husband/boyfriend doesn't own a suit. Does he really need one?" What do these men wear when they attend a wedding or funeral? Same question for those asking if children need to follow the dress codes. My husband and son don't wear suits for work but they do own appropriate clothing for special occasions. And, no, we aren't made of money. We feel that wearing nice clothes shows respect for your hosts and that you recognize the importance of the event. My family and I will be enjoying our first cruise at the end of the month and will be following the guidelines for dining room attire as a sign of respect to our host, the captain, and our dinner companions. Just call me old-fashioned! :)

[donnamc]

At the risk of sounding like my grandma I have to ask- Don't men wear suits for important occasions anymore? I am surprised by the number of posts that start with "My husband/boyfriend doesn't own a suit. Does he really need one?" What do these men wear when they attend a wedding or funeral? Same question for those asking if children need to follow the dress codes. My husband and son don't wear suits for work but they do own appropriate clothing for special occasions. And, no, we aren't made of money. We feel that wearing nice clothes shows respect for your hosts and that you recognize the importance of the event. My family and I will be enjoying our first cruise at the end of the month and will be following the guidelines for dining room attire as a sign of respect to our host, the captain, and our dinner companions. Just call me old-fashioned! :)

couldn`t agree with you more. We like dressing for the evenings, it makes us feel special as we seldom dress up once back home. All the men in our group bought their tux from hire shops which sell their old stock which have been worn before, but are all cleaned up before being sold.

We always dress early and have a couple of drinks before dinner, which seems to make it more special:cool:

[bUU]

It is hard to defend an assertion that a cruise, in of itself, constitutes a reason to wear formal clothing. I respect my hosts enough to comply with their suggestions, and that seems to make everyone happy. However, I can see considering formal night to be nothing more than a costume party, and can readily imagine how some folks, in order to partake of the dinner service which is included in the cruise fare they paid, consider being forced to attend what they consider nothing more than a costume party to be an onerous burden. I don't agree with them, but their position is reasonable enough IMHO.

[StellaRN]

My husband went from a suit and tie, to casual fridays to becoming a consultant and wearing jeans everyday unless he has a big meeting then he wears a sport jacket and tie and he's usually overdressed. I think since a lot of business went casual and some people don't have to dress for work and I don't everyone at church dressed up people don't spend money on what they don't use. I don't know why. We unfortunately had to go to a wake recently and my husband changed out of his jeans and put a jacket and tie on (I didn't have to tell him he was ready when I got home from work). You are right it is a sign of respect. My point is I think only 50% of the men had jacket and ties or suits on. I for one look forward to dressing up and my DH says he is buying a Tux. But then maybe we are old farts. LOL But if your best girl is going to dress up don't you want to look good also if only for her?

[LandLockedInAZ]

I can see considering formal night to be nothing more than a costume party, and can readily imagine how some folks, in order to partake of the dinner service which is included in the cruise fare they paid, consider being forced to attend what they consider nothing more than a costume party to be an onerous burden. I don't agree with them, but their position is reasonable enough IMHO.

 

I can certainly see both sides of this issue. I like to dress up and my husband does dress up not so much because he enjoys wearing the clothes but because it does seem to make it "more special".

Thank goodness there are a variety of cruise lines to choose from and each of them seems to have their own level of formality!

[bUU]

You got that right, LandLocked.

 

I'd be careful about attributing any intent behind what people wear without talking with them personally. While there are folks who are dressing-down out of disrespect (perhaps they feel that it's their vacation and they can do whatever they place regardless of everyone else), that isn't a universal reason for dressing-down, and I've read many messages from folks who are doing so without any disrespecful intent whatsoever. Holding different values from us isn't the same as being disrespectful to us. As a Pantheist, I don't attend a mosque, synagogue or church, but rest assured that it is not out of disrespect for Muslims, Jews or Christians, but simply a reflection of my different faith.

[jp2001]

There is nothing wrong about dressing up but it's true that, those days, most men I know (family, work, friends) don't wear suits anymore. Sometimes a sport jacket but not all of them. For us, it's not something that shows respect or nonrespect, it's more about the way people behave that matters. Last time my father wore a tie is when I was baptized! and the last time I saw him with a sport jacket was when my grandfather (my mother side) died. Every other funeral or wedding, he was wearing nice pants with a nice shirt (but in no way a fancy shirt) or a nice T-shirt with a shirt/jacket (I don't know how to call that, sorry but it's not what we usually call a sport jacket, the fabric is not that heavy).

If I want to be honnest, I don't like a young man (under 40 or so) wearing a suit, my boss wears one most days and I can't understand, it just give them a ''phony'' look IMHO.

Please don't flame me, I am just expressing an opinion because HappyStamper asked if men are actually wearing suits for funeral and weddings, most men I know don't.

[bUU]

You really hit the nail on the head: How people treat you is a significant sign of respect. How they dress -- not-so-much.

[StellaRN]

I don't mean to put anyone down. I guess it all depends on age, where you live, what you do for a living etc. etc. Times have changed most resturants don't require a jacket and tie anymore. All the weddings I've been at the men have worn suits but I think most weddings here are alittle over the top (including my own daughters) I guess if you know that a cruise has formal nights before you go you make the choice to dress or not. I would not be offended if someone at our table was in jeans. To each his own. You have to be comfortable with yourself. I intend to dress to the nines and have fun doing it.

[flashdog_1]

When my husband learned there would be 3 formal nights on the cruise he said, "I refuse to wear a tux!" I told him he could just wear a black suit and he'd be fine. Whew. He said, "you know I don't want to do even that, but I would not want to embarrass you or ourselves or the other passengers, so I'll go along with it." He has been retired for almost a decade (the lovely suits still hang in the closet) and only dresses up for weddings and funerals now. So I am relieved. I didn't want to miss the meals in the dining room, so didn't emphasize that there are other dining options! I was saving that for "last resort" talk.

[brigittetom]

I guess I got lucky. My husband never dresses up at home so he actually enjoys wearing his tux on a cruise..........of course if there were a reason to dress up at home, he would also. :)

[nutbrown]

Suits are coming back!...I read that recently in the NY Times. Plus, more men are dressing up for "busines casual" with sports jackets and ties versus dockers and polo shirts. Also, some of the big companies are moving away from business casual to business dress because they were having problems enforcing a dress code for business casual.

[bUU]

We're still on the leading edge of a reaction to the horrible employment market this pitiful economy has graced us with. In a scenario like that, folks tend to lean toward the conservative side of issues. If the economy ever improves, we can expect to see things swing back the other way again.

[jshawnh]

This is all a matter of etiquette, which is a part of our American culture that has been lost for the most part. The reason for etiquette is to make others around you feel comfortable and at ease, and to feel at ease yourself in any given situation. The way we dress should fit the occasion. I feel uncomfortable when I see a person at a "formal" dinner wearing a tee-shirt. It's not because I look down on the person, but because I empathize with how out of place he must feel.

 

My children and I (I'm a single/divorced father) live in a rural area, where overalls and camouflage coveralls would make you fit right in, but I teach my children the proper way to dress and act for different situations. I believe it is very important, not only as a showing of respect for others, but as a part of our culture.

 

I know people have paid for their meals with their cruise fare, but they should be respectful of others who have also paid for the experience.

 

Just my opinion

[bUU]

I don't think the old rules of etiquette have been "lost" but rather have been evolved to a more modern interpretation. Etiquette has always changed over generations, and there have always been folks who adhere to older rules while others adhere to newer rules.

 

The reason for etiquette is actually not to make others feel comfortable and at ease. Rather, the word "etiquette" is from the French estiquer, which meant "to post," describing the practice of French nobles posting rules for behavior on their property. Etiquette is about control (which is not necessarily a bad thing, IMHO), not the comfort of others. Contrast that with "hospitality," which comes from the Latin hospitalis, "of a guest," and means "the cordial and generous reception and treatment of guests."

 

You surely won't get any argument from me that the way we dress should "fit the occasion," and indeed, my interpretations of etiquette are probably closer to yours than to the folks who generally don't wear suits to weddings and such. However, hospitality dictates that we respect reasonable beliefs even though we may not subscribe to them ourselves, and so I respect folks who's interpretations of etiquette are a bit more modern than mine.

[JanetMarie]

I am glad that you will be following the cruise guidelines. For DH and I, we still dress up and we still dress up even at home when we go to a restaurant. I think it is in poor taste to frequent a restaurant for a Friday night dinner to see the people next to you in jeans. To me, it's simply unacceptable and very poor manners. That's what's wrong with this country...everything is go, go, go and people care more about making the almighty $$$ than about looking proper. Just My Opinion.

[HappyStamper]

even though it wasn't very clear. I couldn't believe that a man wouldn't own at least one jacket to wear to a wedding or funeral even if his daily wardrobe is casual. It sounds like not everyone feels that it is neccessary to wear a jacket and tie to these events. I guess we really are midwestern conservative old farts! (but we're not that old really) :)

[bUU]

I encountered a situation a couple of years ago, faced with a wedding and absolutely nothing I felt appropriate to wear that fit, due to a substantial loss of weight. I suppose that the passage of time, without any pressing need for such attire, combined with a change in size (in either direction), could very readily result in the same situation for others.

[brigittetom]

If you cruise often enough, you have no choice but to keep your wardrobe up to paar. :D

I agree about the resturants also but at the same time know that I'm dressed to make myself feel good about being dressed nicely so, the others are on their own. :)

[jshawnh]

The reason for etiquette is actually not to make others feel comfortable and at ease. Rather, the word "etiquette" is from the French estiquer, which meant "to post," describing the practice of French nobles posting rules for behavior on their property. Etiquette is about control (which is not necessarily a bad thing, IMHO), not the comfort of others. Contrast that with "hospitality," which comes from the Latin hospitalis, "of a guest," and means "the cordial and generous reception and treatment of guests."

 

I was not referring to the definition of "etiquette", but to it's "raison d'etre". I know that cultures change, and rules for society change over time, but I feel many people today have abandoned all rules, and simply do whatever they choose, without consideration of other people.

 

I love to travel, and am a student of foreign culture. For a long time I have felt that America, at least the areas in which I have lived (which includes quite a few places, since I was in the military for over ten years) is lacking in culture. I have come to believe that our loss of etiquette is a large reason for that fact. It is not as though our rules for social behavior have changed, but that they have been, for the most part, abandoned.

 

sorry for rambling on here. I'm sure we'll all have a great time on our cruises regardless of how our tablemates dress.

[bUU]

I don't disagree that there are some inconsiderate people out there. My objection was only that, from what was said earlier, someone could infer that everyone who holds to different values from us, with respect to attire (for example), are being disrespectful. All I'd encourage is for folks to determine other folks' respectfulness by how they treat people, rather than by what they wear.

 

The United States does have a pronounced culture. I do not feel that it is specifically "lacking in culture." The United States is the greatest nation in the world, IMHO, and these things we find to disagree about within it are mere quibbles as compared to the broader scope that comes into play when comparing America to elsewhere. We have had many opportunities recently to see America pulling together when it was essential for specific rules for social behavior to be recognized and honored. Perhaps that is the difference: People are much less likely, these days, to play-up social niceties to impress others, but when consideration is needed, I wouldn't trade my country-mates for those anywhere else. Even after this very divisive election, we are one nation, unified around a shared vision of the future, only disagreeing about how to get there.

[cruisetoscrap]

I just want to answer the question why my husband doesn’t have a suite.

 

 

my husband actually has 2 suits but they were bought when he went to collage and his body has changed and the fashion has changed as well as tastes. he only used them for interviews after he graduated and now even interviews are being done in business casual. he's always warm so he just wears nice pants with a shirt and tie even if the jacket was forced on when we left the house. Yes we are in our 20's. and we haven't had to go to any funerals and the only weddings we go to are back home in a rural community where the dress code is much more casual. And we don't spend our money on fancy restaurants were there is a dress code, a nice night out for us is Chile’s or Outback.

 

So that is why he doesn’t have a suite to actually wear for a cruise. it's not a matter of not wanting one or not being disrespectfull, jut not needing one. we would be better off hanging $200 in the closet till we needed to go buy one. he will either be rent a tux or buy a black suite so he is ready for the dreaded day of a funeral even if it's 10-20 years away for grandpa (this is not ment as disrespect, grandpa always talks about his funeral and it involves a casket from a garage sale, beer and a cement truck then grandma saying no way).

[LoriLinay]

A tiny bit off the subject but...

 

I went to pick up my daughter at Confirmation class last night. They go to different classrooms for an hour, and then the 40+ 13-15 year olds meet back in the sanctuary for final prayer. This is a 2 year program where they were getting some of their religeous education, and I counted EIGHT boys wearing hats. IN THE SANCTUARY!!! I don't care if they wear them in the classroom (well actually I do, but I'll let it go...), or outside, or in the fellowship hall. But in the sanctuary? While they were praying???

 

Okay, flame away....

 

Bicker, have a nice cruise tomorrow. Allthough I'm sure you are an alrighty kind of a guy, I'm seriously glad I won't be sitting at your table for dinner! LOL!! I'd have a befuddled look on my face every moment!

[jshawnh]

Point well made "Bicker".

 

Maybe I'm just starved for culture after living here in rural Arkansas for the past seven years. There is a culture her indeed, but not one that I necessarily enjoy. But, if it came down to needing help from a neighbor, or sticking together in hard times, I'd bet on my neighbors any day. I love my country dearly, as you obviously do. I just have this idea that materialism and "who knows what" have robbed of of some of our cultural herritage, including the knowledge and practice of common etiquette. I may be wrong, but ???

 

I must say that after living overseas for three years, a lot of the expected norms here in the U.S. seemed silly to me.

 

So, take it for what its worth. I like your passion.

[jp2001]

sound like an old fart

 

That has nothing to do with this topic or the people who replied to the post, it's just that it's the first time I hear about this expression and I think it is too funny! No matter what, I sure it's better to SOUND like an old fart then SMELLING like an old fart.

 

:)

 

Remember, this is just about the expression, I swear it's not to offend anyone.