I know I sound sound like an old fart but...

[vinceygirl]

I understand this is a cruise fashion discussion board. For some reason I have the most difficult time understanding such "superficiality". :confused: . Just my opinion. Maybe I would think differently given the chance to meet some of you. Chances are that won't ever happen. I cruise for the experience of meeting new people, visiting other lands and cultures. Given the choice of meeting a teacher at the local elementary school and learning something different vs searching a port for my best fashion buy I'll take the date with the teacher hands down. I'm sure many of you have been to Philipsburg, St. Maarten on a Sunday am? Next time you're there check out the church on Front Street. Quite a moving experience. Such joy!! Happy sails to you all.:)

[Lois R]

Vinceygal, I suppose that is what makes us all different. But when you say:

"I have the most difficult time understanding such superficiality":confused:

That is sort of judgemental too. Just because a person loves to dress up, even look a bit more "dressed" on a casual evening, how does that make them superficial?
I agree, it is inside a person that counts, but if a cruiseline carries a dress code, well, I try to abide by it.
And as the comparison to the teacher or the fashion, why can't we learn from BOTH people?
Jane probably knows more about fashion in one finger than I will know in my life.
So If I needed help on something she would be the one I would ask.
If I wanted to learn about something else, I would try and find someone with knowledge in that area.
We ALL have knowledge to share.

[momofmeg]

[quote name='vinceygirl']I understand this is a cruise fashion discussion board. For some reason I have the most difficult time understanding such "superficiality". :confused: . Just my opinion. Maybe I would think differently given the chance to meet some of you. Chances are that won't ever happen. I cruise for the experience of meeting new people, visiting other lands and cultures. Given the choice of meeting a teacher at the local elementary school and learning something different vs searching a port for my best fashion buy I'll take the date with the teacher hands down. I'm sure many of you have been to Philipsburg, St. Maarten on a Sunday am? Next time you're there check out the church on Front Street. Quite a moving experience. Such joy!! Happy sails to you all.:)[/QUOTE]

Since you feel this way-why do you waste your time at the fashion board? Since you are not "learning" anything?

What I don't understand is this is the FASHION BOARD so it has to do with DRESS but so many of you feel that is a no-no to be required to wear anything other then a pair of shorts or a pair of jeans. My thinking is if yoiu feel that strongly about there should be no dress code on cruiseships then there is really no need for you to come and read and post here.

[momofmeg]

[quote name='bicker']Knowing "better" isn't really the issue, I believe, but rather it is a matter of personal preference, in this case. Ask folks who dress casually at the symphony, and I'll bet that most of them are incredibly intelligent, and made an informed, lucid decision to dress as they did, rather than it being related to any lack of knowledge. I find myself in many circumstances where I'm comparatively overdressed, but that doesn't mean that either myself nor the folks dressed more casually are off-target -- just that we view attire differently.[/QUOTE]


Bicker you are something else. Yes we all realize you are very intelligent especially as you often make a point of using words that most of us (including me) have never heard. (At least Bicker the husband-maybe this is Bicker the wife as I finially realized you are 2 people posting here)

I was talking about a TREND- 20 years ago when we went to the symphony you saw men in tuxes and women in formal gowns and mink and fox stoles and dripping in diamond jewlery. Later when people began to feel so strongly about wearing animal fur- the wraps became velvet and satin. But people still dressed to the nines for this.

The last 5 years or so though people now dress down casually for this and look no diffferent then the folks you would meet in MacDonalds. I was not insulting anyone's intelliegience. Personally I feel it has to do a lot with the younger generation coming of age. The older folks still dress(people over 60) there is just not as many of them anymore. (Where as 20 years ago these were people over 40)

Bicker let me ask you this? If you were in a court of law how would you feel if your lawyer dressed down? yes I realize I am getting "off" the subject but as I still see lawyers "dress" for courtroom appearances-I just wondered if you felt that was necessary. Maybe if someone had framed you unjustly for something you would not mind if your lawyer wore a pair of ripped blue jeans and did not bother to shower.

You know too Bicker this is just like what I replied to vinceygirl here. If you really feel you are not learning anything here and there is no need for a dresscode on cruiseships why do you keep coming here and posting.

[scarletine]

[quote name='vinceygirl']I understand this is a cruise fashion discussion board. For some reason I have the most difficult time understanding such "superficiality". :confused: . Just my opinion. Maybe I would think differently given the chance to meet some of you. Chances are that won't ever happen. I cruise for the experience of meeting new people, visiting other lands and cultures. Given the choice of meeting a teacher at the local elementary school and learning something different vs searching a port for my best fashion buy I'll take the date with the teacher hands down. I'm sure many of you have been to Philipsburg, St. Maarten on a Sunday am? Next time you're there check out the church on Front Street. Quite a moving experience. Such joy!! Happy sails to you all.:)[/QUOTE]
It's rather silly (and as Lois said, judgemental) to think that you wouldn't be able to get to know us on as cruise. There's plenty of time to talk to people and get to know them while [U]on[/U] the boat, whether or not someone decides to check out the sites, or check out the shops when [U]off[/U] of it. It's hardly like we spend every waking moment of our time nattering on about clothes.

I'm just as capable talking about a number of different subjects with my husband, friends, and tablemates at dinner as I am oohing and aahing over some beautiful jewelry with my girlfriend while in port. (Usually AFTER taking an excursion to get to know the local sites and history.)

It's hardly like the two are mutually exclusive, and I find it rather amazing that you would think so. Just because we use this forum to talk about fashion doesn't mean that this is all we know how to talk about. I mean, come on, really. :rolleyes:

[seagulls]

Vinceygirl, it is obvious you have a liking for casual cruises, like Windstar, where bare feet and shorts for dinner are the norm. So why are you bothering to read and criticize this fashion site?

[bostonlass]

[quote name='vinceygirl']I understand this is a cruise fashion discussion board. For some reason I have the most difficult time understanding such "superficiality". :confused: . Just my opinion. Maybe I would think differently given the chance to meet some of you. Chances are that won't ever happen. I cruise for the experience of meeting new people, visiting other lands and cultures. Given the choice of meeting a teacher at the local elementary school and learning something different vs searching a port for my best fashion buy I'll take the date with the teacher hands down. I'm sure many of you have been to Philipsburg, St. Maarten on a Sunday am? Next time you're there check out the church on Front Street. Quite a moving experience. Such joy!! Happy sails to you all.:)[/QUOTE]

Do they dress up for mass on that church on Front Street, or do they come in bathing suits and coverups? My guess is that they're in their Sunday best....including the teacher that you'd have a date with in the am. Does that make them superficial too?

Some people actually enjoy fashion. Some people enjoy fishing. Some enjoy both. Don't sell yourself short by not meeting someone who chooses to dress for formal night in a ballroom gown or a nice suit........maybe you'd find out that they are on the cruise of a life time after being a missionary in say Croatia and that they have looked forward to wearing clothes, that they perhaps even borrowed, that look so fancy.

There's a book somewhere about how everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden. I remember learning back then not to judge a book by it's cover.:rolleyes:

[happysinglemom]

[quote name='bostonlass']Do they dress up for mass on that church on Front Street, or do they come in bathing suits and coverups? My guess is that they're in their Sunday best....including the teacher that you'd have a date with in the am. Does that make them superficial too?

Some people actually enjoy fashion. Some people enjoy fishing. Some enjoy both. Don't sell yourself short by not meeting someone who chooses to dress for formal night in a ballroom gown or a nice suit........maybe you'd find out that they are on the cruise of a life time after being a missionary in say Croatia and that they have looked forward to wearing clothes, that they perhaps even borrowed, that look so fancy.

There's a book somewhere about how everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden. I remember learning back then not to judge a book by it's cover.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

How very well said.;)

[bUU]

[quote name='scarletine']I still believe that certain occasions (weddings, funerals,etc.) call for a certain type of dress unless you've been told explicitly otherwise.[/QUOTE]As do I and so it would surely be a case of "not caring" if either you or I would go to such an occasion dressed casually. However, just as I wouldn't expect others to comply with my personal religious beliefs, I don't expect other to agree with us that certain occasions call for a "certain type of dress." That's why it is incumbant on the individual invitations to specific attire, if there is a desire on the part of the hosts to impose their preference on their guests (which is perfectly appropriate).

[bUU]

[quote name='momofmeg']You know too Bicker this is just like what I replied to vinceygirl here. If you really feel you are not learning anything here and there is no need for a dresscode on cruiseships why do you keep coming here and posting.[/QUOTE]I feel that if you were more interested in participating in discussions with folks, respecting them as peers instead of insisting on trying to impose your "teaching" on them, you'd get a bit more out of the experience. YMMV.

I don't agree with vinceygirl, but I respect her right to believe as she does.

[kitty9]

Sorry, Bicker, but even though vinceygirl has a right to her opinion, she obviously doesn't seem to think we, on a fashion board of all places, have a right to our opinon. That door swings both ways, but here, it appears to only swing shut, at least with vinceygirl. Oh, and also Bicker, you chastise momofmeg for her supposed "teaching" with her posts, but isn't that exactly what you're constantly doing with all of your posts? At least, from what I read, you are doing nothing more than lecturing (teaching) all of us, with your obvious dislike of anything related to dress codes and cruises.

[bUU]

I agree that if her position is that others "aren't entitled to their opinions" then that it is indefensible. However, I didn't read her message that way. She made it clear that she has had a "hard time understanding" -- that's not the same as saying that something is wrong or bad. Furthermore, she put "superficiality" in quotation marks. That clearly shows that she didn't mean it literally. Sometimes, I think people read far too much into what has been written -- that seems to be the case here, as far as I can tell.

[Lois R]

Well, we all must be reading things differently. My interpretation of the poster's quote "hard time understanding" was sarcasm. Now, maybe I am way off base. Only the original poster can explain how something was meant to sound.
I also took the rest of the post literally, including the "superficial" comment.
That is why I replied the way I did.

Just because some of us like to dress up (yes, even on casual nights) doesn't mean we are all superficial.

[vinceygirl]

[quote name='bicker']I agree that if her position is that others "aren't entitled to their opinions" then that it is indefensible. However, I didn't read her message that way. She made it clear that she has had a "hard time understanding" -- that's not the same as saying that something is wrong or bad. Furthermore, she put "superficiality" in quotation marks. That clearly shows that she didn't mean it literally. Sometimes, I think people read far too much into what has been written -- that seems to be the case here, as far as I can tell.[/QUOTE]

:eek: Boy oh boy did I open a can of worms !!!!!! I don't know the exact quote but I believe some of you doth protest too much. Did I hit a nerve to put so many people on the defensive? I'm sorry that some of you donot think I'm learning from this board. Initially I started to read the posts out of curiosity, as you can tell neat and clean are more important to me than the latest Louis Vouiton(sp wrong I'm sure) handbag, thought I might find some insight to whether or not I would want to sail on a "foo-foo" ship and try something new. Since I'm not into fashion I could use some expertise. The problem for me is there seems to be less regard with what to wear vs what others are wearing, hence my comments. Bicker thank you for explaining me to the others. I wasn't judging only questioning. One thing I have learned is I won't be sailing a mega liner any time soon. I thought the Titanic and some of those old attitudes sunk a long time ago. If any of you who have so vehemently critiqued my posts took the time to really read them you will find I am quite willing to meet and make some new aquaintences. My question is if I'm at dinner and feel I have followed the dress code to the best of my knowledge yet maybe not to some of the respondents expectations would any of you take the time to know me? Have I given anyone food for thought? Hope so, as all of you certainly have me.
The comments about the book everthing I need to learn in life I learned in kindergarden regarding judging a book by it's cover I believe that WAS my point from the get go. Another good one is "there but for the grace of GOD go I." Have a nice day everyone :)

[scarletine]

I'll just say that when some folks get defensive, it may be because they're replying to someone that sounds (to them) [B]awfully[/B] self-righteous. :rolleyes:

[Lois R]

[quote name='scarletine']I'll just say that when some folks get defensive, it may be because they're replying to someone that sounds (to them) [b]awfully[/b] self-righteous. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Amen to that one!

[seagulls]

Ditto...what a pill!

[happysinglemom]

Vinceygirl - I may be "reading too much into" your post, but it really sounds to me like you are simply "looking for a reason". I don't recall reading anywhere on these boards, or in this post, that anyone would be shunned, or not spoken to, if they did not choose to dress as someone else thought appropriate. "Old attitudes" are certainly around, [u]everywhere[/u], including these boards, but more frequently you will find new ones, so maybe [i]you[/i] are the one that needs to take time to get to know others. Honestly. Me thinks YOU doth protest too much.
Chew on that, okay?
:rolleyes:

[vinceygirl]

[b][size=3][color=black]:rolleyes: Well, I guess I did it again. Really stirred the pot for some of you. The whole experience of posting on this board is certainly an eye opener. If people become this defensive over some stupid comments with regards to howto dress on a cruise, heaven forbid we discuss something that REALLY matters. Seems to me many of you have no tolerance for those who might disagree on dress codes. Read some of the postings towards bicker, some are nastier than what was posted to me. [/color][/size][/b]
[b][size=3]Have any of you taken the time to reread my posts? I think not otherwise the responses would have been different. I have learned much and I can't believe how upset some are over such a trivial subject. I don't know if I will ever post here again, probably not. I will make one last comment for those of you who are sooo upset............[/size][/b]

[b][size=6]Get A Life !!!!!!!!! [/size][size=3]Have a nice day and Happy Sails to all :) [/size][/b]

[momofmeg]

[quote name='bicker']I feel that if you were more interested in participating in discussions with folks, respecting them as peers instead of insisting on trying to impose your "teaching" on them, you'd get a bit more out of the experience. YMMV.

I don't agree with vinceygirl, but I respect her right to believe as she does.[/QUOTE]

When is expressing an opinion teaching? I HAVE NEVER said ANYTHING to anyone on how they were dressed on a cruise. (when on a cruise) I actually even had a friend who cruised with us who wore blue jeans to dinner but I said nothing even though I felt she should not have done that. (she knew better-I saw no reason to say anything-as you can't change people can you? People do what they want)

Even the people who came dirty and stinking to dinner last year I said nothing to anyone but my husband though pershaps I SHOULD HAVE brought that to the mat'rd's attention.

As far as posting on this board. I answer and post just like you do Bicker.

You know you are the one that twisted what I posted here. Go back and look my post. I did not say the people at the symphony "should have known better" but that the trend was too dress down at events that people used to dress for. The person I said "should have know better" was a 40 year old woman who wore blue jeans and a tee shirt with writting on it to a funneral.

What I do not understand is WHY you dislike me so much? You are the one full of hot air who loves to use words that most of us don't understand-so everyone knows how well educated and intelligent you are.

Folks if you don't know what I am talking about- there was an old thread here
where I told about my Miracle cruise last year where a whole family came in old worn out clothes dirty, greasy hair and sweaty to formal night dinner.

Bicker told me this may have been their "religious beliefs and their culture" or some cr&*p. When I answered that the family had Brooklyn accents and
they were American then some other poor soul thought I was cr&^*ping on people from Brooklyn when all I was trying to say was no I did not believe it to be their culture.

No Bicker I am not trying to teach anything and to be honest aren't you just a little bit like the "pot calling the kettle black?"

You know I do not even know you I don't want to dislike you as that is called prejudice. (see I may not be as educated as you but I do know the meaning of a few things) I just cannot understand why you pick apart everything I post.

Folks (other then Bicker) what do you think?

[Lois R]

[size=1]get a life yourself~[/size][size=5]As YOU YELL AT THE REST OF US[/size]

[Happy ks]

Buh-Bye

[momofmeg]

[quote name='Lois R'][size=1]get a life yourself~[/size][size=5]As YOU YELL AT THE REST OF US[/size][/QUOTE]

too funny Lois (LOL) but be careful you may be accused of trying to force your "teachings" on others too. (LOL)

Lois as long as you don't hate me too I can "survive" this board I guess.

You know guys this is the answer-all new cruiseships should have several restuarants and then passengers given a choice-for those who want to "dress" can go to one restuarant and those who choose not can go to the other. Allow these people to have their lobster tail in their cut offs and tee shirts.

That way those of us who want the old cruise experience can still have it.

You know guys if the lines started doing this we would have nothing to talk about would we?

[vinceygirl]

[quote name='Lois R'][size=1]get a life yourself~[/size][size=5]As YOU YELL AT THE REST OF US[/size][/QUOTE]
;) Wasn't a yell, only emphasized to get everyone's attention. Obviously I did 'nuff said.
P.S. I know I said I probably wouldn't post but couldn't help myself. Now I'm becoming child like and I was raised with a little more class than that so I bid adeiu (probably spelled wrong never felt a French class was necessary) and wish you all well.:)

[Lois R]

~never mind~