Might be using sharholder obc combinability to improve bookings?

[Morecruisesplz]

The L/A on our recent Grandeur cruise announced at the Welcome Back party that OBC's for booking onboard or next cruise and stockholder credits would no longer be combinable on any cruise booked after December 31, 2008. (She also hinted at other reductions in combinability on coupons and credits.) I specifially sought her out later to ask if there might be a management decison to go back to the previous policy if enough complain (just like it changed from Oct 15 to Dec 31 after many compained as suggested here on CC in the past months). She said that RCCL could no longer afford to offer both because they were losing too much due to the poor economy.

 

I did not push her on it because it isn't her decision, but how does this make any sense? Does reducing existing benefits of their many P, D and D+ customers, thereby making it that much harder for us to cruise mulitple times a year (during a slow economic period) help them improve sales? Wouldn't it seem easier to raise sales and improve profits by having loyal cruisers cruise more often than to create and launch new, expensive ad campaigns to attract new customers? Does anyone walk away with those OBC's or are you like us and those credits are a drop in the bucket compared to what you spend on the cruise beyond the cruise price?

 

So then I got to thinking... did so many people hurry to book a cruise by Oct 15th to get the multiple OBC and fill the ships that they decided to announce another "cut off date." Did it work so well that they realized a Dec 31st end date would increase 2009 bookings?

 

I hate to think that we're being tricked but how does the other explaination that they offer make any sense?

[wraithe]

Actually Miranda also said that there were over a million dollars of OBC on Grandeur alone during this repo. While it irritates me to lose the combined OBC, it isn't going to make me stop cruising RCL. Even without being able to combine the WOW OBC and stock OBC on this cruise. I wound up getting money back at the end of the cruise.

[bilyclub]

Actually Miranda also said that there were over a million dollars of OBC on Grandeur alone during this repo. While it irritates me to lose the combined OBC, it isn't going to make me stop cruising RCL. Even without being able to combine the WOW OBC and stock OBC on this cruise. I wound up getting money back at the end of the cruise.

 

 

That is part of the problem. OBC is supposed to be used up and not cashed out at the end of the cruise.

[aqhacruiser]

That is part of the problem. OBC is supposed to be used up and not cashed out at the end of the cruise.

 

That and the stock is down to only 11.30 right now. Carnie cut dividends out, RCCL is cutting perks, it's the economy and all businesses are cutting back now to survive.

[Morecruisesplz]

Actually Miranda also said that there were over a million dollars of OBC on Grandeur alone during this repo. While it irritates me to lose the combined OBC, it isn't going to make me stop cruising RCL. Even without being able to combine the WOW OBC and stock OBC on this cruise. I wound up getting money back at the end of the cruise.

 

Hey Wraithe! Didn't realize you were on this cruise with us again. I never heard Miranda say that either of the welcome back parties but if I had I would have called her on it. It isn't possible! With 1274 cabins that would make the average OBC per cabin $784.93. You know that isn't possible. Another way to look at it is 2446 passengers this time so that would mean every man, woman and child each received $408 OBC -- again not possible.

 

If she did actually say that it sort of proves my point that they are over stating the numbers. But, let's say it was actually half of that, or $200 a person (still way to high) -- isn't that cheap compared to trying to find new customers in today's economic environment to take multiple cruises per year?

[vtoria98]

Even without being able to combine the WOW OBC and stock OBC on this cruise. I wound up getting money back at the end of the cruise.

 

I think this statement right here is why RC is discontinuing the combinable benefits. You think RC is making money off "loyal" customer that do this? First time cruisers rarely get OBC and I am willing to bet they spend a lot more money in general as they do know how to cut corners or drealize what they can live without on the ship.

[Morecruisesplz]

That is part of the problem. OBC is supposed to be used up and not cashed out at the end of the cruise.

 

You hit the nail on the head! It should be "use it or lose it." It's an OBC not a credit card gift. If they made everyone spend it then they would have no complaints because that is what it is for.

[PattyG12]

I had all my OBCs on my last cruise ... we used all of them and only had to put another 400 onto the credit card!! I was thrilled and played extra bingo. Oh yeah, I drank more than normal too .... I think cutting back on Loyal Royal's is a mistake. DH said he thinks we should try another line ... so far I've been able to hold him off. ;)

[Morecruisesplz]

That and the stock is down to only 11.30 right now. Carnie cut dividends out, RCCL is cutting perks, it's the economy and all businesses are cutting back now to survive.

 

Ok, I'm willing to listen. How does cutting perks improve what ever effects a bad economy is having on RCCL? You are repeating exactly what RCCL officials are saying but what I'm saying is "that's bull!" The only negative effect on RCCL of the economy is fewer passengers. So you cut perks to do what? Cause P, D, and D+ and loyal stockholders to cruise less?

[Ladylouwho]

Actually Miranda also said that there were over a million dollars of OBC on Grandeur alone during this repo. While it irritates me to lose the combined OBC, it isn't going to make me stop cruising RCL. Even without being able to combine the WOW OBC and stock OBC on this cruise. I wound up getting money back at the end of the cruise.

 

Would you please explain how if you cannot combine anything you would still get money back? Please do not include TA OBC as that is a private transaction. Please do not include VISA OBC as that is again a private transaction. If you can only get the C&A balcony discount from RCL, what other kind of other OBC are you talking about? We are not talking about private OBC's here. (TA, Visa, etc.)

 

Thank you for any input.

[PattyG12]

Next Cruise OBC, Shareholder OBC

[Morecruisesplz]

Would you please explain how if you cannot combine anything you would still get money back? Please do not include TA OBC as that is a private transaction. Please do not include VISA OBC as that is again a private transaction. If you can only get the C&A balcony discount from RCL, what other kind of other OBC are you talking about? We are not talking about private OBC's here. (TA, Visa, etc.)

 

Thank you for any input.

 

Sure, it is simple -- you just don't spend the OBC. With folks bringing on their own booze, their own water and soft drinks, etc. it is possible to spend little or no money on "extras" and thereby have the entire OBC to withdraw. In my opinion RCCL should refuse to refund any OBC. The policy should be "spend it or lose it." It is an OBC -- not a cash discount and it is the cash part of it that is costing them money.

[bullsfan]

It isn't possible! With 1274 cabins that would make the average OBC per cabin $784.93. You know that isn't possible. Another way to look at it is 2446 passengers this time so that would mean every man, woman and child each received $408 OBC -- again not possible.

 

 

We were on that repo also and had read the $$ of OBC. DH, an accountant, tried to figure the numbers last night and could not come up with how it worked out. We, for one, had no OBC and I am sure many others did not either. I just wonder how it came to that much.

[cruissett]

Like so many, not being able to combine credits will make a difference as to whether we cruise RCI, another line or take a land vacation. We just became Diamond members having taken 4 cruises in 2008 and have 2 scheduled for 2009. First they zapped us with a fuel surcharge, now they're taking away our discounts & credits.......we have 2 OB booking numbers & stock..........add in the balcony discount and we could cruise 2 or more times a year, take it away and we'll have to re-look at the situation. I wouldn't mind the use it or loose it on each trip, but to take it all away...........Hopefully RC wakes up and sees what looks good on paper may not look so good if bookings drop

[wraithe]

I think this statement right here is why RC is discontinuing the combinable benefits. You think RC is making money off "loyal" customer that do this? First time cruisers rarely get OBC and I am willing to bet they spend a lot more money in general as they do know how to cut corners or drealize what they can live without on the ship.

 

Would you please explain how if you cannot combine anything you would still get money back? Please do not include TA OBC as that is a private transaction. Please do not include VISA OBC as that is again a private transaction. If you can only get the C&A balcony discount from RCL, what other kind of other OBC are you talking about? We are not talking about private OBC's here. (TA, Visa, etc.)

 

Thank you for any input.

 

Sure, it is simple -- you just don't spend the OBC. With folks bringing on their own booze, their own water and soft drinks, etc. it is possible to spend little or no money on "extras" and thereby have the entire OBC to withdraw. In my opinion RCCL should refuse to refund any OBC. The policy should be "spend it or lose it." It is an OBC -- not a cash discount and it is the cash part of it that is costing them money.

 

First off, I did not say you cannot combine "any" OBC's. I had a stock OBC, TA OBC, and several gift OBC's. I had over $500 worth of OBC when I walked onboard. You can't combine WOW and stock OBC's, but you can combine Next Cruise/onboard booking and stock OBC until Dec 31, 2008. FWIW, the money that I got back at the end of the cruise was a gift. I don't smuggle booze onboard, and don't drink all day, every day. The cruise line has no problem with bringing soda and water onboard, so that isn't smuggling. I don't have to buy every picture and I don't do shore excursions. I bought my wine package with MyCokeRewards. Like it or not, not everyone spends the same way. I'm just going by what the Loyalty Ambassador said, it's entirely possible that she overstated, it's also entirely possible that some folks had thousands of dollars of credit when they walked onboard. She didn't say it during the Welcome Back party, but during a private conversation after the party. She did not say that it was all RCL provided OBC, so it could include everything, onboard, next cruise, stock, Visa, TA, gift, whatever.

[Morecruisesplz]

First off, I did not say you cannot combine "any" OBC's. I had a stock OBC, TA OBC, and several gift OBC's. I had over $500 worth of OBC when I walked onboard. You can't combine WOW and stock OBC's, but you can combine Next Cruise/onboard booking and stock OBC until Dec 31, 2008. FWIW, the money that I got back at the end of the cruise was a gift. I don't smuggle booze onboard, and don't drink all day, every day. The cruise line has no problem with bringing soda and water onboard, so that isn't smuggling. I don't have to buy every picture and I don't do shore excursions. I bought my wine package with MyCokeRewards. Like it or not, not everyone spends the same way. I'm just going by what the Loyalty Ambassador said, it's entirely possible that she overstated, it's also entirely possible that some folks had thousands of dollars of credit when they walked onboard. She didn't say it during the Welcome Back party, but during a private conversation after the party. She did not say that it was all RCL provided OBC, so it could include everything, onboard, next cruise, stock, Visa, TA, gift, whatever.

 

Sorry Wraithe. I thought you meant I had missed something Miranda had said in the open meeting to the group and that I had just missed it. Be that as it may: First, no one was specifically talking about you on the OBC's or smuggling. It was just general discussion of the subject and how those also effect Royal's profitablility or lack thereof. Second, Visa, TA and gift OBC's cost Royal nothing. (Those are just trading dollars paid to Royal by someone into from one person to your account.) So Miranda should not include those amounts in any total she quotes as OBC's being a cost to Royal. Third, even with that information it is still completely impossible for the OBC's to total a million dollars on our recent Grandeur cruise. Do the math. Half of the ship would have to have cruised for free for that to happen! Look how many said they had no OBC's on the cruise. I don't think enough of the 1,274 cabins could have had "thousands" per stateroom in OBC's made up from Stockholder, Diamond Suite, Next Cruise, and Credit for booking while onboard, etc. Those can only total about $550/cabin if combined. So even if even half the cabins had the maximum available OBC that is chargable to Royal, the total would only be about $300,000.

 

Let's face it Miranda was feeding you a line and I just don't think misinformation should be used to justify reducing benefits.

[Ladylouwho]

First off, I did not say you cannot combine "any" OBC's. I had a stock OBC, TA OBC, and several gift OBC's. I had over $500 worth of OBC when I walked onboard. You can't combine WOW and stock OBC's, but you can combine Next Cruise/onboard booking and stock OBC until Dec 31, 2008. FWIW, the money that I got back at the end of the cruise was a gift. I don't smuggle booze onboard, and don't drink all day, every day. The cruise line has no problem with bringing soda and water onboard, so that isn't smuggling. I don't have to buy every picture and I don't do shore excursions. I bought my wine package with MyCokeRewards. Like it or not, not everyone spends the same way. I'm just going by what the Loyalty Ambassador said, it's entirely possible that she overstated, it's also entirely possible that some folks had thousands of dollars of credit when they walked onboard. She didn't say it during the Welcome Back party, but during a private conversation after the party. She did not say that it was all RCL provided OBC, so it could include everything, onboard, next cruise, stock, Visa, TA, gift, whatever.

 

TA OBC and Gift OBC don't come out of RCL's budget. Apparently all you got as an OBC from RCL was the stock OBC. I don't know how RCL can complain that they are losing money from OBC when most of the OBC comes from outside private sources, Visa points OBC, TA OBC and Gift OBC. That doesn't come out of RCL's budget. RCL pays TA's a commission. What the TA does with that Commission is their private business. If they give some back to THEIR customer in the form of an OBC, that doesn't hurt RCL's bottom line.

 

I get the TA commission rebated back to me (10% or often more) in the form of a check after my cruise not as OBC. That doesn't come out of RCL's budget.

 

How can RCL claim they are loosing money from OBC's given out by someone other than RCL?

[wraithe]

Those can only total about $550/cabin if combined. So even if even half the cabins had the maximum available OBC that is chargable to Royal, the total would only be about $300,000.

 

Let's face it Miranda was feeding you a line and I just don't think misinformation should be used to justify reducing benefits.

 

You're probably right that she overstated, or was given misinformation herself. Can't argue with your numbers.

 

How can RCL claim they are loosing money from OBC's given out by someone other than RCL?

 

One more time, I never claimed that she said they were losing money from TA OBC and such, she said they were losing too much money from combining OBC's, and were going to discontinue it after December 31.

[Tucker in Texas]

To answer the first poster's question, I did book a cruise to use my Next Board Credit and my stockholder's credit when the deadline was October 15 or thereabouts for a cruise next April. It was earlier than I wanted as I buy cruise insurance within 14 days of deposit to get pre-existing waiver and hate to put the insurance money (as well as the $900 deposit) out so far ahead when, at this point, I am not out any money if I cancelled outside penalty time. Get the deposit back but not insurance money. Now I have my fingers crossed the price of a barrel of oil from the oil patch will be below $65 March 18 so I can have OBC of the fuel surcharge. I'm not holding my breath on that one, though.

 

Another reason I wanted to hold off is that after our upcoming cruise in a couple of weeks, I will be Diamond. With the Diamond discount on a balcony, I most likely will upgrade from inside guarantee steerage (booked to get the camel's nose in the tent) which I did on this upcoming cruise. Booked an inside steerage cabin and then when they dropped the price of the balcony, switched to that for the same price because of the $200 discount for being Platinum.

 

Now to answer the other question--Will it make a difference in my cruising RCI if they don't let me combine OBCs. Yes it will because combining the OBCs has tilted the scale for me to cruise RCI than other lines when all things are equal because I can get OBC for stock, booking while on another cruise, as well as loyalty discounts. I have stock with Carnival which is good for OBC on Princess, Holland American, etc. but they don't have the loyalty discounts that RCI has or the option to buy the Next Cruise Letter while on a cruise when I'm not ready to book a certain cruise in the future while on a cruise I certainly will not be buying anymore of the Next Cruise certificates while on a cruise since the OBC for that equals the stockholder credit so why let them hold my $100 for something I may or may not do in the future. I think they have shot themselves in the foot with that one. They are holding a lot of $100's making money on it while people make up their minds of how to use it.

 

I agree it should be "use or lose" on the OBC. However, if I had some left that I saw I wasn't going to use, I'd go down to the casino and draw it out eating the 3 percent before I would forfeit it and I'm sure they figured that out.

 

On the upcoming cruise, I have $450 coming to me ($250 stockholder and $200 for booking while on a previous cruise--not the Next Cruise letter because I was told that I could not combine that with booking while on a cruise OBC when I booked on the last cruise for this upcoming cruise. So I held on to it--hence used it for the spring Trans-Atlantic cruise. $300 of it will go for tips (which surprises me they let me do that as that is "cash" vs. buying drinks, photos, things that have a highly inflated price on so their percentage of loss is minimal) so that leaves me $150 and I doubt I will have a problem finding a home for the money. Now if we get the fuel surcharge back, then I might consider making a trip to the casino or find a nice piece of jewelry (lol).

 

Tucker in Texas

[Rancher Dave]

Actually Miranda also said that there were over a million dollars of OBC on Grandeur alone during this repo. While it irritates me to lose the combined OBC, it isn't going to make me stop cruising RCL. Even without being able to combine the WOW OBC and stock OBC on this cruise. I wound up getting money back at the end of the cruise.

 

 

That is a lot of OBC...wonder if all of it truly was put there by RCCL or if not some of it is TA OBC that the TA paid in to have on customer accounts. I forget capacity of GOS and don't plan to look it up but over a million would amount to quite a bit per pax on the cruise.

[Morecruisesplz]

That is a lot of OBC...wonder if all of it truly was put there by RCCL or if not some of it is TA OBC that the TA paid in to have on customer accounts. I forget capacity of GOS and don't plan to look it up but over a million would amount to quite a bit per pax on the cruise.

 

Did you read the tread?

[Morecruisesplz]

Did you read the tread?

 

Sorry... I meant to type thread. My fingers got ahead of my brain or something like that! But my point was that we had done all the for you if you read the posts: Looked up the number of cabins in our handy/dandy T/A book and did the math. Someone at RCCL should start doing that before throwing out numbers.