any problems in Jamaica/Cayman Islands?

[nilsbyy]

I have been warned by several travel books and websites that there is rampant homophobia in the Caribbean, especially Jamaica. My partner and I have booked a shore excursion with the cruise line in Jamaica and plan to do some snorkeling on our own in the Cayman Islands. We don't normally engage in any PDA beyond occaisional hand-holding, but we also have never made any conscious effort to pretend we're not a couple. Should we be concerned? Has anyone here been to these areas and had a good/bad experience?

[pmetiv]

My partner and I have been to St. Thomas, Calica, Cozumel, and Grand Turk and didn't have any problems (other than some stray under-the-breath comments). But they are reputed to be more-gay friendly. We've also been scared away from booking Jamaica cruises because of the anti-gay reputation, and very curious for any advice about Grand Cayman, Roatan, or Belize (where we're sailing in 2 weeks). We're not into PDAs, but we are an interracial couple, so people pretty quickly pick up the gay connection. Are we in for some surprises in Grand Cayman?

[wisebear]

Nilsbyy, you shock me. Somehow you managed to find this gay message board, so I know you can use a computer, but you seem to have completely missed all news about the situation for gay people in jamaica and cayman. Yes, you should be concerned, both for your safety and for your dignity. Frankly, I think you should change your cruise plans. You don't say what line you're on, but I'd bet they offer an alternative itinerary including key west and mexico, as opposed to the homophobia itinerary you've chosen. If you do go through with this trip - knowing your port fees and taxes are supporting the two most anti-gay governments in the caribbean - then at least have the dignity to stay on board and not spend more money in these places that encourage hate against us. If you do go ashore, best of luck to you - I hope you don't wind up beaten or arrested, as have others before you.

 

And I can't wait to see what Etoile has to say about this!

[Boytjie]

...very curious for any advice about Grand Cayman, Roatan, or Belize (where we're sailing in 2 weeks). We're not into PDAs, but we are an interracial couple, so people pretty quickly pick up the gay connection. Are we in for some surprises in Grand Cayman?

 

It's different because of the numbers but we were on an RSVP charter in Belize and Roatan and did not notice any anti-gay sentiments. The good church lady that was our tour guide on a bus trip to Paya Bay Resort on the west end of Roatan had a royal time with us; she handled the commens about how big the bananas on Roatan were and if there were any rich men looking for husbands. Somebody even got her and the bus driver to sing the Honduran national anthem for us.

 

There has been some unrest in Roatan lately and I have read of some port calls being canceled - hope its OK when you get there.

[mistereks]

Nilsbyy -

 

I agree with Wisebear -- what ARE you doing taking money to Jamaica?! We are hated, beaten and killed there with some regularity. It's among the most homophobic countries in the world.

 

Try another route. Don't support hate.

[etoile]

LOL, do I have a reputation around here now?!

 

Jamaica and the Caymans are one thing. Belize and Roatan are entirely different. The Caribbean and Central America approach this very differently. For the most part, Central America is fine. No problems with Belize and Roatan, both countries have NGO's that work with gay people, and Honduras is actually quite tolerant.

 

Jamaica and the Caymans are an entirely different story. Try this one on for size: State-sanctioned murder of gay people. Yep, welcome to Jamaica. The Jamaican government has an official policy of encouraging rape, torture, and murder of gay people. Not even Saudi Arabia has that. Will you be "safe" there? Sure, as long as you don't hold hands, behave like a couple, or stray from your excursion group. Should you give your money to a country where lynching gay people draws a crowd of cheering onlookers? I wouldn't. The U.S. has granted asylum to gay Jamaicans based on the climate for gays in their home country. If you want to go spend your money there, that's your business, and I won't tell you not to. But make damn sure you know what you're doing when you visit. Personally I wouldn't even pick an itinerary that goes there. I won't even give them my port taxes. Nothing.

 

The situation in the Caymans is getting better, they are reconsidering their policies, but Grand Cayman has a history of turning away gay cruises. The climate there is not good on an individual basis, but the country is moving in the right direction.

 

My advice: don't go to Jamaica. Period. Don't support hate.

[garykool81]

I have been warned by several travel books and websites that there is rampant homophobia in the Caribbean, especially Jamaica. My partner and I have booked a shore excursion with the cruise line in Jamaica and plan to do some snorkeling on our own in the Cayman Islands.

 

Aside from the dangers of visiting Jamaica, you should think twice before even giving them a penny of your money. As previous posters have noted, Jamaica is a place that is perhaps second to none in the western world when it comes to the brutalization of gays. This is a place where the local gay rights organization has to operate from a secret address, as the previous director had their throat slit.

 

This is a place where brutality and murder of gays, both tourists and citizens, is essentially government condoned. There have been incidents where actual uniformed police officers have been involved with gay bashings and have done *nothing* to even try and stop the incident.

 

If you wouldn't give your travel dollars to places like Zimbabwe or Iran, where gays are routinely imprisoned and executed, you certainly shouldn't be visiting Jamaica.

 

I will NEVER book a cruise that even stops at that port, even if I do not intend on leaving the ship. Remember, you still giving them port fees and other taxes to a regime and culture that glorifies the torture and murder of gay people.

[xander]

In Belize you may want to check out Caye Caulker - it's a small island located offshore; very laid back vibe, and good bars / restaurants.

 

In Roatan, we hired a taxi to take us to the beach first thing, he then picked us up at the agreed time, and we then went to a great local restaurant for lunch. No problems in either place.

 

Grand Cayman is an ex British colony, stuck with the British social attitudes of the fifties. It's not at all gay friendly. There are two other problems with Grand Cayman - ships have to anchor a long way offshore due to a protected reef, with a long (20 mins) and sometimes rough tender ride. Not everyone's cup of tea. Also there can be up to 10 mega cruise ships in port - just imagine the chaos and crowds that 30,000 passengers can bring to a small harbour area. Not relaxing at all.

 

As for Jamaica, I agree with the others who have already posted. Avoid.

[tjmartin]

My partner and I have been to St. Thomas, Calica, Cozumel, and Grand Turk and didn't have any problems (other than some stray under-the-breath comments). But they are reputed to be more-gay friendly. We've also been scared away from booking Jamaica cruises because of the anti-gay reputation, and very curious for any advice about Grand Cayman, Roatan, or Belize (where we're sailing in 2 weeks). We're not into PDAs, but we are an interracial couple, so people pretty quickly pick up the gay connection. Are we in for some surprises in Grand Cayman?

 

I've wondered the same about the Bahamas...I heard they are not very gay friendly. My BF and I were considering going on the Carnival Fascination 5 night cruise to the Bahamas from Jacksonville leaving on May 2 2009. The ports of call are Nassau and Half Moon Cay. We dont do the PDA thing, but are an interracial couple also.

 

I've never been on a cruise before but the BF has been on several with family (mostly on Carnival). How is the Carnival line in being "gay friendly". Reason why we are choosing Carnival is cause of his experience with them....says they were pretty good when he went with family.

[pmetiv]

The Fascination trip would be worthwhile just for the day at Half Moon Cay. We stopped there last December (click on our review in our signature) and LOVED it. The private island is the perfect beach experience. The only people there will be fellow cruisers.

Unfortunately, we don't know anything about the Bahamas.

 

As for your question about Carnival, we've felt fairly welcome on our previous two cruises. We're not big on PDAs, but we did take "couples" pictures together, requested that the room steward set our beds together, and made no secret of the fact that we're a couple. The boat staff was always very nice. Maybe some passengers didn't agree with our lifestyle, but nobody ever made any comments on board--which is all that matters. And we were on the Rusty Wallace NASCAR cruise last year [400+ middle-America NASCAR fans]--where you might expect fireworks. But everybody just seemed to be having a good time.

 

BTW: On our first cruise, an African-American couple seated at our table of 6 was obviously uncomfortable the first night. They barely spoke to us, couldn't look at us in the eye, and NEVER showed up for another meal at the table for the rest of the cruise. That was fine; it made more room for the rest of us. The two remaining women at our table (two sisters from the Bahamas) were a delight and we had a great time for the rest of the voyage, just the four of us. You have to let that kind of thing roll your back, and not affect your vacation.

 

We didn't meet many other gays on our two boats, although they did have FOD gatherings most nights. But they overlapped our late seating/dining times, so we always got there after people (however few) had left. But a group of 10 nice lesbians stopped us in one of the bars one night and said they had missed us at the FOD. It was nice to be noticed. LOL

 

We've enjoyed Carnival, and it's hard to beat the price. We think you'll have a good time, and hopefully meet a few new friends.

 

Jim and Pierre

[tjmartin]

The Fascination trip would be worthwhile just for the day at Half Moon Cay. We stopped there last December (click on our review in our signature) and LOVED it. The private island is the perfect beach experience. The only people there will be fellow cruisers.

Unfortunately, we don't know anything about the Bahamas.

 

As for your question about Carnival, we've felt fairly welcome on our previous two cruises. We're not big on PDAs, but we did take "couples" pictures together, requested that the room steward set our beds together, and made no secret of the fact that we're a couple. The boat staff was always very nice. Maybe some passengers didn't agree with our lifestyle, but nobody ever made any comments on board--which is all that matters. And we were on the Rusty Wallace NASCAR cruise last year [400+ middle-America NASCAR fans]--where you might expect fireworks. But everybody just seemed to be having a good time.

 

BTW: On our first cruise, an African-American couple seated at our table of 6 was obviously uncomfortable the first night. They barely spoke to us, couldn't look at us in the eye, and NEVER showed up for another meal at the table for the rest of the cruise. That was fine; it made more room for the rest of us. The two remaining women at our table (two sisters from the Bahamas) were a delight and we had a great time for the rest of the voyage, just the four of us. You have to let that kind of thing roll your back, and not affect your vacation.

 

We didn't meet many other gays on our two boats, although they did have FOD gatherings most nights. But they overlapped our late seating/dining times, so we always got there after people (however few) had left. But a group of 10 nice lesbians stopped us in one of the bars one night and said they had missed us at the FOD. It was nice to be noticed. LOL

 

We've enjoyed Carnival, and it's hard to beat the price. We think you'll have a good time, and hopefully meet a few new friends.

 

Jim and Pierre

 

Am new to this group/forum as well as cruising, so please excuse my ignorance, but what are FOD gatherings? what does FOD stand for I mean sorry

[etoile]

FOD is Friends of Dorothy. It's a gay reference; an "FOD gathering" is a party intended for gay people, though of course anyone friendly is welcome. :)

[02143]

Grand Cayman has problems, but there is no comparison to be made with Jamaica. Jamaica I would not get off the ship at. Grand Cayman, unless you feel strongly about not supporting them with your money, you should be fine. It's not appreciably worse than most of the non-U.S. Caribbean in its views.

[Pussycat]

Here's an interesting article which rates the various islands for gay friendliness.

 

I agree with most from what I've experienced, except the Bahamas. Nassau for sure should be rated "Bad Apple" too!!

 

http://www.gay.com/travel/article.html?sernum=9600

[COMBOY]

I've cruised many times to Jamaica and once flown down to stay at a resort in Jamaica. (This is before I came out nor did I know about the extreme homophobia there). From my experiences most Jamaican are extremely warm and friendly and tourism is very important to the economy. The street vendors are extremely pushy to the point of being so annoying that you can't wait to get back on the ship. Jamaica has extreme poverty, but yet is such a beautiful island with some on the most incredible beaches. So as long as you stay on the cruise ship organized shore tour you will be fine. I wouldn't recommend anyone (both straight and gay) wondering off on their own (outside of the main tourist areas) nor showing any PDA's off the ship. Jamaicans are very conservative and religious people and this is there country so you need to be respectful of their culture as is Grand Cayman. This is true to many of the Caribbean islands. Atlantis cruises did stop in Grand Cayman on one of their last cruise and I didn't heard of any major problems. Grand Cayman got such bad press when they denied a stop by Atlantis in 1997 that their government has become more accepting of the gay charters. I am, in no way, endorsing spending money nor visiting Jamaica, but if you booked and don't plan on changing then you should be fine as long as you are informed.

[wripro]

As far as I am concerned the original question of the OP misses the point. It's not a question of whether anyone will experience problems in either of these ports. What is important is that none of us should spend ONE PENNY in these places that discriminate against us. Do not let your hard earned money support these practices. Either find a cruise with different ports or stay aboard the ship when it docks there. And let the shore excursion desk know exactly why!

[keyguide]

FOD is Friends of Dorothy. It's a gay reference; an "FOD gathering" is a party intended for gay people, though of course anyone friendly is welcome. :)

Are you quite certain a strai-8 is welcome at the F.O.D. gathering? A good friend of mine is gay and he is accompanying us on his first cruise. I thought that if there were an F.O.D. meeting I would go along til he was comfortable. Thanks for a reply. Also, I will not go back to Jamaica either as it is unsafe for anybody. It should be removed as a destination.

[JB Fort Lauderdale]

Here is a link to the last gay death five months ago in Jamaica. Tell the cruise line you want to switch to another cruise, one that doesn't go near Jamaica. At least get you money back or applied to another shore excursion. Never go ashore in Jamaica.

 

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/06/series-of-gay-s.html

[Pussycat]

Uh JB, that murder was in the Bahamas.

However, I agree with your comments re Jamaica. Wouldn't ever give them any of my precious vacation $$$s!!

[garykool81]

Are you quite certain a strai-8 is welcome at the F.O.D. gathering?

 

No worries! I've been to several FOD gatherings on ships where gay-friendly friends or family members came with their pals. There were NO issues at all. Everyone gets along, and everyone is welcome.

[keyguide]

No worries! I've been to several FOD gatherings on ships where gay-friendly friends or family members came with their pals. There were NO issues at all. Everyone gets along, and everyone is welcome.

Thanks Gary I appreciate the response.

[tximprov]

I just visited Jamaica on my last cruise. I have always wanted to visit jamaica and now I can say I have. I wasnt to impressed. But that is not the point. As far as giving $$$ to their economy for their human rights record, I can say we in America have our own problems when it comes to the Rights of the GLBT community. OUr Government may not condone murder of a homosexual, but the lack of hate crime legislation in this country doesnt exactly condemn it either. I personnally will not allow hatred to deter me from seeing other parts of the world that I want to see. I certainly understand others points of view on this subject, but simply chooseing a different ship or itenerary isnt that easy for some people. Jamaica is now on my list of places in the world I have been to. It will never be a destination location for me, but we must experience life not run from it. It is fear that has kept us in the closet to long.

If you go to Jamaica, just be aware of your surroundings and know where you are. You are in a foreign country. There are dangers to Americans all around the world due to the political climate. People will see you as an American before they notice your gay.

[wisebear]

I know there are standards of conduct that must be maintained on these boards, or a post will be pulled. Therefore, I am completely at a loss as to how to respond to the selfishness and thick-headedness of certain posters.

[garykool81]

I just visited Jamaica on my last cruise. I have always wanted to visit jamaica and now I can say I have. I wasnt to impressed. But that is not the point. As far as giving $$$ to their economy for their human rights record, I can say we in America have our own problems when it comes to the Rights of the GLBT community.

 

You're absolutely right that America has a long way to go in terms of GLBT treatment. That said, there are MANY parts of this country that have already progressed quite a bit in recent decades. The entire west coast, New England and parts of the Mid-Atlantic have made major progress on GLBT rights to the point of where they are very close to Europe's treatment of our community. There are, of course, parts of the south and Midwest that have a LONG way to go. They are still decades behind the curve.

 

That all being on the table, I can't help but take offense to your comparison of America to Jamaica. While all parts of America might not recognize gay unions or permit gay adoption, our culture, laws and civil rights distribution are light years ahead of Jamaica's. The attitude of Jamaicans towards the homosexual community is that of perhaps Alabama during the 1950s -- and even that might be a generous comparison.

 

Let's get something straight here -- Jamaica's government essentially sanctions the murder of homosexuals. It is a country where the gay rights organization must operate from a secret address because the previous directors had their throats slit, where the torture and murder of gay citizens goes without investigation and without punishment, where POLICE OFFICERS have participated in gay beatings in broad daylight without repercussions, where simply being homosexual is a crime punishable by ten years in a labor camp, etc.

 

This is a horrid country second only in treatment of gay citizens to perhaps places such as Iran, Iraq or Zimbabwe, where gays are executed.

 

America and Jamaica are NOTHING alike.

 

In America, we investigate the murders and tortures of gay citizens. Those responsible are punished. In America, we do not imprison gay people for the sake of them being gay. In America, active duty, uniformed police officers do not participate in mob beatings of gay people.

 

I am sorry, but your attitude is akin to a Jewish person in the 1930s looking beyond Germany's treatment of the Jewish population (keeping in mind this was before the Holocaust) and vacationing in the country, knowing that their money is going towards a government that actively supports and encourages anti-antisemitism, then using the excuse of, "Well, America has a lot of antisemitism right now too."

 

Just keep this in mind -- *Your* tax dollars from your port charges went directly into a government that actively arrests, beats, tortures and murders gay citizens.

[wripro]

Garykool81 has very eloquently articulated my exact feelings on this matter. Thank you!

 

There are some things more important in life that crossing off a destination from a list of places one wants to see.