Question of Pirates and Carnival Cruise Ships...

[AustinSooner]

This came up before, I believe in this forum... this doesn't involve Carnival Ships but found others might enjoy reading about what happened.

 

Apparently there was an unsuccessful attack on a Oceania Cruise Ship (Rome to Singapore).

 

Cruise passengers describe "cheeky" pirate attack

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081203/ap_on_re_mi_ea/piracy

[fargodakota]

Here is a map locating the attacks so far this year.

 

http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=89

 

 

If a pirate group thought they could take a cruise ship they would surely try it. There has been more than one cruise ship attacked htis year.

 

The Russians just announced they are pulling thier patrols from around Africa and a couple of other countries will probably do the same. So that leaves a few over worked ships to patrol a fairly large chunk of ocean.

 

I just hope a cruise ship does not get boarded.

[ShedQueen77]

Lynne Pincini of Australia said she was heading to a friend's cabin when the order came to keep their heads down and stay inside.

 

 

"We heard the announcement, and of course we went straight out on the balcony to have a look," she said. "It was like a very large speedboat. It was running alongside the boat."

 

Uh...duh. :eek:

 

I heard about this on the news this afternoon. I don't think Carnival has any ships that go this route, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Scary stuff though!

[63Corvette]

On our last cruise, a Pirate Man and Pirate Woman came through the Dining room and the Pirate Woman held a sword to my neck while they took my picture. The Pirate Man did the same to my Wife. Damn Pirates! :D

[flpab]

I didn't take a picture but on our cruise on the Splendor which had just returned from Europe there was a huge banner across the front of the ship with a security warning to stay a certain distance. I think they are ready to shoot if you come within a certain amount of feet these days. I sure hope so! anyway the warning was posted for all to read.

[RyanMFitz1]

I have a friend that works in DC and cruise ship safety is something that homeland security is very concerned about.. Primarily the fact that cruise ships don't have many means of protecting them selves and being that is it very easy to overtake a cruise ship. In discusing with her, here's an example.

 

A rowboat with "xx" amount of people in it, harboring weapons. Cruise ships as many of us know from caribbean sailings stop due to having to under mariatime(sp) law of helping a ship in distress...They pick up these people/refuges/pirates and next think you know, weapons are drawn and they are on board.

 

Now as she has said that is not necessairly likely, but who would have ever thought 9/11 would have been possible. IMO, whoever "governs" the sea laws needs to "rethink" and revamp the laws and means for cruise ships of the world to protect themselves. The world is changing, unfortunately for the worse and no one is truly safe anymore and With these new mega liners such as on RCL that can hold over 3000+ people and crew, pirates or terrorists by that mean could easily have another 9/11 type castrophy.

[BND]

The problem cargo ships have is the small number of crew onboard. They are much more vulnerable. A cruise ship on the other hand would be much more difficult to take control of between crew and cruisers. Homeland Security is looking at every scenario, no matter how out there it may be.

 

BTW, wnt2, does your friend work at DHS or just in DC? I live and work in the DC area and that doesn't make me an expert on Homeland Security, but my job does have some ties to it. A lot of people work in DC, lol. That in and of itself doesn't mean anything. Cruise ships stop, but rarely if ever actually board refugees. It would take a heck of a lot of "pirates" to take over a ship of 2,000+ people.

[RyanMFitz1]

The problem cargo ships have is the small number of crew onboard. They are much more vulnerable. A cruise ship on the other hand would be much more difficult to take control of between crew and cruisers. Homeland Security is looking at every scenario, no matter how out there it may be.

 

BTW, wnt2, does your friend work at DHS or just in DC? I live and work in the DC area and that doesn't make me an expert on Homeland Security, but my job does have some ties to it. A lot of people work in DC, lol. That in and of itself doesn't mean anything. Cruise ships stop, but rarely if ever actually board refugees. It would take a heck of a lot of "pirates" to take over a ship of 2,000+ people.

 

 

She works for the dept of homeland security. and it wouldn't take too many..i mean look at that masacre over in india where those radicals(terrorists) killed those 100+ folks....

 

I just hope it never comes to that, just think on how apprehensive folks were to fly after 9/11...something liek that could really hurt not only the cruise industry, but countries that rely on the revenue from travelers..

 

Remember the "good ol days" where there wasn't fear to travel, or fear to eat all those plates of carb/calorie/high fat foods on cruises..LOL...

[keyguide]

The problem cargo ships have is the small number of crew onboard. They are much more vulnerable. A cruise ship on the other hand would be much more difficult to take control of between crew and cruisers. Homeland Security is looking at every scenario, no matter how out there it may be.

 

BTW, wnt2, does your friend work at DHS or just in DC? I live and work in the DC area and that doesn't make me an expert on Homeland Security, but my job does have some ties to it. A lot of people work in DC, lol. That in and of itself doesn't mean anything. Cruise ships stop, but rarely if ever actually board refugees. It would take a heck of a lot of "pirates" to take over a ship of 2,000+ people.

Triumph boarded a group last year.The 2000 unarmed (mostly women and children)people may not even know the ship has been taken over till they are diverted then what would they do ?

[Tapi]

Hopefully nothing like this will ever happen, but it HAS happened before where terrorists have sucessfully boarded a passenger ship. Here's an article about the Achille Lauro in 1985, boarded by Palestinian terrorists:

 

On October 7, 1985, four men representing the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) took control of the liner off Egypt as she was sailing from Alexandria to Port Said.

 

The hijackers had been surprised by a crew member and acted prematurely. Holding the passengers and crew hostage, they directed the vessel to sail to Tartus, Syria, and demanded the release of 50 Palestinians then in Israeli prisons. After being refused permission to dock at Tartus, the hijackers murdered wheelchair-bound American passenger Leon Klinghoffer because he was Jewish and threw his body overboard. The ship headed back towards Port Said, and after two days of negotiations, the hijackers agreed to abandon the liner in exchange for safe conduct and were flown towards Tunisia aboard an Egyptian commercial airliner.

 

The plane was intercepted by F-14A Tomcats from the VF-74 "BeDevilers" and the VF-103 "Sluggers" of Airwing 17, based on the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, on October 10 and directed to land at Naval Air Station Sigonella, a N.A.T.O. base in Sicily, where the hijackers were arrested by the Italians after a disagreement between American and Italian authorities. The other passengers on the plane (possibly including the hijackers' leader, Abu Abbas) were allowed to continue on to their destination, despite protests by the United States. Egypt demanded an apology from the U.S. for forcing the airplane off course.

[trock]

Hopefully nothing like this will ever happen, but it HAS happened before where terrorists have sucessfully boarded a passenger ship. Here's an article about the Achille Lauro in 1985, boarded by Palestinian terrorists:

 

On October 7, 1985, four men representing the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) took control of the liner off Egypt as she was sailing from Alexandria to Port Said.

 

The hijackers had been surprised by a crew member and acted prematurely. Holding the passengers and crew hostage, they directed the vessel to sail to Tartus, Syria, and demanded the release of 50 Palestinians then in Israeli prisons. After being refused permission to dock at Tartus, the hijackers murdered wheelchair-bound American passenger Leon Klinghoffer because he was Jewish and threw his body overboard. The ship headed back towards Port Said, and after two days of negotiations, the hijackers agreed to abandon the liner in exchange for safe conduct and were flown towards Tunisia aboard an Egyptian commercial airliner.

 

The plane was intercepted by F-14A Tomcats from the VF-74 "BeDevilers" and the VF-103 "Sluggers" of Airwing 17, based on the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, on October 10 and directed to land at Naval Air Station Sigonella, a N.A.T.O. base in Sicily, where the hijackers were arrested by the Italians after a disagreement between American and Italian authorities. The other passengers on the plane (possibly including the hijackers' leader, Abu Abbas) were allowed to continue on to their destination, despite protests by the United States. Egypt demanded an apology from the U.S. for forcing the airplane off course.

 

 

I was a kid when that happened and I will never forget the horror I felt seeing this on the news.... and of course our 'friends and allies' thought we were in the wrong :rolleyes:

 

If I remember correctly the Italians released Abbas...

[wentworth]

Maybe a stupid question......but do the cruise ships have weapons on

board? Where are they? Is there any info available about how prepared

the cruise ships are in case of piracy ?

[Tapi]

Maybe a stupid question......but do the cruise ships have weapons on

board? Where are they? Is there any info available about how prepared

the cruise ships are in case of piracy ?

 

Don't know the full answer to this one, but a few years ago when the Seabourn Spirit was attacked by pirates, they did use some sort of high pitched acoustic device to distract the would be hijackers. Also, apparently the crew had been trained for this sort of situation:

 

According to a report from Cruise Critic member Norman J. Fisher, a passenger onboard the Seabourn Spirit when the incident occurred at about 5:30 a.m. local time, "the ship was hit by a large number of bullets and at least one rocket. One crew member was injured."

 

The pirates –- each of the two boats reportedly had four or five of them aboard –- were attempting to board Seabourn Spirit. In order to do so they fired shots into the ship. One crew member was, according to Fisher, injured by shrapnel. The captain otherwise refused to allow passengers to go above decks as the fear was that folks that were visible might well be shot.

 

In a bulletin appearing on CNN's Web site, Mike Rogers, another passenger onboard Seabourn Spirit, was quoted as saying "the captain tried to run one of the boats (about 25 feet long) over ... the captain said he was going to do anything to keep them from getting onboard."

 

Indeed, in a hasty statement issued by Miami-based Seabourn, it is noted that "the ship's crew immediately initiated a trained response and as a result of protective and evasive measures taken, the occupants of the small craft were unable to gain access to Seabourn Spirit. The ship has moved away from the boats and is now sailing from the area. All passengers and crew are safe."

 

Seabourn Spirit, carrying 151 passengers and 161 crew members, was on its way to Mombasa, the last stop on a 16 night cruise from Alexandria, Egypt. As a result of the incident, however, the ship sailed away from Africa and is now headed for an unplanned visit to the Seychelles where passengers will disembark.

 

While reports of pirates and banditry are more common than you’d think in waters off of Indonesia (and typically are directed towards cargo rather than cruise ships), the United Nations did warn last week that its World Food Programme, which was trying to deliver food to Somalia, had been frustrated all fall by hijackings that restricted its efforts and called the southern Somali coastline one of the world's most dangerous.

 

This incident is likely to have a chilling impact on cruises to this part of Africa. Folks who have booked trips there may want to check with cruise lines, such as Princess, Peter Deilmann and Silversea, which all plan to offer trips that call in this part of the continent, in the coming weeks regarding itinerary changes.

[BND]

Triumph boarded a group last year.The 2000 unarmed (mostly women and children)people may not even know the ship has been taken over till they are diverted then what would they do ?

 

There are several reasons this wouldn't work for the pirates as well as say, hijacking an airplane. Still very unlikely, especially in the Caribbean. Pirates have only really been a problem off the coast of Somalia where there is no government to speak of. Between the US Navy and other smaller Navy's, the Caribbean is very well patrolled. I just don't see a small group of pirates or terorists being able to take over a cruise ship the way they take over a cargo ship. As for the Achille Lauro, that was off the coast of Egypt and that was a much smaller ship (400 passengers and crew). There are security measures in place you will never know about on cruise ships. There are much bigger things to worry about than someone trying to hijack a cruise ship and I have that on authority from my "friends" in DC who work some of these issues.

 

BTW, just because someone says they have a friend who works at DHS, doesn't mean they do or that that "friend" knows anything.

 

Also, anyone picked up by a cruise ship such as what Triumph did, do not get free run of the ship. They are held separately from the rest of the ship for a reason.

[RyanMFitz1]

There are several reasons this wouldn't work for the pirates as well as say, hijacking an airplane. Still very unlikely, especially in the Caribbean. Pirates have only really been a problem off the coast of Somalia where there is no government to speak of. Between the US Navy and other smaller Navy's, the Caribbean is very well patrolled. I just don't see a small group of pirates or terorists being able to take over a cruise ship the way they take over a cargo ship. As for the Achille Lauro, that was off the coast of Egypt and that was a much smaller ship (400 passengers and crew). There are security measures in place you will never know about on cruise ships. There are much bigger things to worry about than someone trying to hijack a cruise ship and I have that on authority from my "friends" in DC who work some of these issues.

 

BTW, just because someone says they have a friend who works at DHS, doesn't mean they do or that that "friend" knows anything.

 

Also, anyone picked up by a cruise ship such as what Triumph did, do not get free run of the ship. They are held separately from the rest of the ship for a reason.

 

 

In response to your quote about my "friend" i offered that information as a mere information...I seriously doubt my friend pulled that information out of her ass. As stated in MY first post about this, that homeland security is looking into ways to making cruise ships all around safer. Which in various news programs as well as the AP, cruise lines are looking into ways of either diverting particular routes in those areas and also making cruise ships on all lines safer.

 

I wish everyone nothing but safe travels, i highly doubt anything could happen on a cruise ship but who thought 9/11 could and would have happened, but you know what it did. IMO the best way to remain safe is to just simply be aware, just as in ever day life.. Just becuase i personally go on vacation doesn't mean that nothing bad will or can't happen to me or anyone else ( god forbid)

[Fishtales6]

Generally,

 

The protocol is to send a tender or lifeboat out to investigate a craft of unknown origin/intent. The boat crew will most certainly include several of the crew who are trained to evaluate and respond appropriately. No doubt that the crew has a specific format to inform the ship as to what they find. And, rest assured, that if a bad guy is holding a hostage/or making threats, the language in which the report is rendered will communicate the threat to the ship, without the bad guys having a clue.

 

No doubt, DHS, the USCG, the ship lines themselves, have all invested much in the technological and tactical potential activities and responses.

 

And, I can imagine the shock the bad guys might have, once they attack a ship of veterans and families. Yeah, we talk crap about each other's branches of service...A LOT..but when the malodorous fecal material hits the air circulation device, we stand ready.

 

You're safe. At least from pirates on the high seas. As for store operators, and those land sharks that are determined to separate your from your coin in a port of call, you're on your own.

[kujobie]

but when the malodorous fecal material hits the air circulation device, we stand ready.

 

Classic!

[L2J]

I have a friend that works in DC and cruise ship safety is something that homeland security is very concerned about.. Primarily the fact that cruise ships don't have many means of protecting them selves and being that is it very easy to overtake a cruise ship. In discusing with her, here's an example.

 

A rowboat with "xx" amount of people in it, harboring weapons. Cruise ships as many of us know from caribbean sailings stop due to having to under mariatime(sp) law of helping a ship in distress...They pick up these people/refuges/pirates and next think you know, weapons are drawn and they are on board.

 

I think you're first two statements are relatively accurate. Correct....cruise ships (any commercial ship for that matter) don't have satisfactory means of defending themselves.

The second part about ships being easy to overtake?...Can a ship be overtaken...obviously. Is it "very easy"? (your words...) not so much...and this information came from someone I know that trains regularly DOING this sort of thing, and no he's not in the USGC ;)– not someone sitting behind a desk at DHS.:rolleyes:

I also don’t think the “rowboat” example is very plausible. First, a group of refugees isn’t going to “pull up along side the ship”…second anyone that gets close enough to the ship, well that should send out warning signals to the captain and crew…third…how are they going to “draw weapons” once onboard?...are they hiding them underneath their trench coats?

My answer to this whole pirate thing….CIWS…it’s quick, it’s quite and environmentally friendly.

[kelz66]

WOW!! Pirates!!

 

who knew?

 

:rolleyes:

[L2J]

WOW!! Pirates!!

 

who knew?

 

:rolleyes:

 

Where were you on the 30th?:p

[hogtyde88]

I think you're first two statements are relatively accurate. Correct....cruise ships (any commercial ship for that matter) don't have satisfactory means of defending themselves.

 

The second part about ships being easy to overtake?...Can a ship be overtaken...obviously. Is it "very easy"? (your words...) not so much...and this information came from someone I know that trains regularly DOING this sort of thing, and no he's not in the USGC ;)– not someone sitting behind a desk at DHS.:rolleyes:

 

I also don’t think the “rowboat” example is very plausible. First, a group of refugees isn’t going to “pull up along side the ship”…second anyone that gets close enough to the ship, well that should send out warning signals to the captain and crew…third…how are they going to “draw weapons” once onboard?...are they hiding them underneath their trench coats?

 

My answer to this whole pirate thing….CIWS…it’s quick, it’s quite and environmentally friendly.

 

 

Quick, quiet, environmentally friendly???

 

Well...one out of three ain't too bad....under the stated circumstances!! :p

[Fishtales6]

Classic!

 

Kuj,

 

I actually heard that years ago at the Hooters on Gulf to Bay. My old boss lived in Clw. When we'd meet for lunch, it was either at Frenchies for a grouper sandwich or Hooters for wings.

 

Carl

[L2J]

Quick, quiet, environmentally friendly???

 

Well...one out of three ain't too bad....under the stated circumstances!! :p

 

Sure....4500 rounds per minute, ok, maybe not "too" quiet but probably much quieter than that 300 winchester (or was it 7mm mag?) you shoot :p, and being hit with that many rounds is bound to turn any terrorist into small bite size pieces...aka "fish food" :p:D

[kelz66]

Where were you on the 30th?:p

 

who's askin?

 

:rolleyes:

[L2J]

who's askin?

 

:rolleyes: