I feel we long time CC'ers have been beaten into submission and the great debates

[mjmiller]

Ok, maybe this is just me, but I feel like I'm just getting tired of this board, and I wonder if other "old-timers" feel the same. Not the wonderful info. And DEFINITELY not cruising itself. Or conversing with other cruise fanatics. But as others have pointed out, there are always the same discussions that become arguments, over and over. Even though I don't always post a lot, I still am on here quite a bit. And if I stay away for a few months, when I come back, it's still the same ol' topics. But that is the nature of the beast, when newbies come along and ask things that were asked a week before, or two weeks before. Some may not yet know to search for a topic. Some may not want to waste their precious time. And some may just think it's fun enough to see it posted again. But for those of us who have seen the same thing time after time over the years - it does get a bit old.

 

But my personal biggest problem here isn't the same topics, or the arguing, it's the nastiness and rudeness. I don't remember it being like this in the past. Now every time I want to post, I think about it - do I really want to post and have someone target me? I feel like the discussions (arguments if you will) used to be civil. It was more like discussing pros/cons, challenging opinions. Now people target specific words and phrases out of context and attack people and their opinions. They "say" things they would never say to another person's face. Perhaps it used to be this way and I just didn't notice. But I don't believe that. Uncivilized rude behavior is becoming more accepted in society and it reflects here as well.

 

As always... JMHO

[Handsome58]

If something is being said you do not like....just go to another thread.....that is what is wrong...people do not understand because someone does not have your point of view does not make them a bad person....just be glad that we are talking about something that is a luxury......allot of people are being laid off...losing their homes..jobs...etc.......WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A VACATION on this site...just relax....if you someone's opinion is getting to you just change to another thread.....but.. because again in these dark times if something about a vacation is upsetting you or what someone writes about a cruise line's rule that has changed consider yourself among the lucky......

[dan40]

I've been around a long time and don't think the arguments have got any worse than they always have been. Some get nasty, some don't. When they get too nasty, they get zapped. There have been cruise boards in the past that were MUCH MORE popular than CC where pages would fill in minutes, if not seconds. But no moderators and the nastiness got incredible. And then trolls made it impossible to post anything and the boards went away. When I first came here I felt that C@ and CM were equally popular cruise boards. Now they are ghost boards in comparison to CC.

 

Dan

[*Mach*]

HI Mach

I see the difference but still do not understand why that would be deleted-

Isn't the purpose of these threads to exchange ideas and experiences? If one had a great time isn't it beneficial to the community to share that; as would be a review of a negative experience?

 

T

 

 

It's the way the rules are set and I suspect it was done that way to protect the advertisers.

We all see those little banner ads that run constantly... that's revenue and it wouldn't be fair to those who shell out dollars to get their tour/resort or whatever on Cruise Critic if others got free advertising via unsolicited reviews...

At least that's the way it seems to me...

[mjmiller]

If something is being said you do not like....just go to another thread.....that is what is wrong...people do not understand because someone does not have your point of view does not make them a bad person....just be glad that we are talking about something that is a luxury......allot of people are being laid off...losing their homes..jobs...etc.......WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A VACATION on this site...just relax....if you someone's opinion is getting to you just change to another thread.....but.. because again in these dark times if something about a vacation is upsetting you or what someone writes about a cruise line's rule that has changed consider yourself among the lucky......

 

You titled your answer "why is this even a topic" - well perhaps you should have just gone to another thread... or started your own thread about how lucky we all are to have expendable income.

 

When I see a post that I try to answer with my opinion to help someone with their VACATION, and then someone gets nasty and rude at me when my response was quite civilized and purely MHO, yes, I take offense. It's human nature. I don't believe people here are upset because others have a different point of view, it's how they express it.

[trock]

It's the way the rules are set and I suspect it was done that way to protect the advertisers.

 

We all see those little banner ads that run constantly... that's revenue and it wouldn't be fair to those who shell out dollars to get their tour/resort or whatever on Cruise Critic if others got free advertising via unsolicited reviews...

 

At least that's the way it seems to me...

 

 

I knew that was the answer... I just wanted someone to come out and say it.. Quid pro quo?

 

Your readers generate the traffic on the banners that pay for the site.. sort of a damned if you let 'em review, damned if you dont...

 

I get it...;)

[trock]

...and the posting was going so well. We were just about to turn the corner and... ;)

 

Trock, Krub...really good points!!!

 

LOL...

 

While ultimately it is the parents responsibility, you are right it is also the responsibility of the cruiseline to keep a safe and happy environment for their paying customers. Sitting here and arguing about how parents parent their children is just asinine IMO. It is just common sense the argument will go south.:rolleyes:

And I agree some cruiselines have no issue with this because they have security that moniters children......no reason why Carnival can't do the same.......

As for the jeans, people have been wearing jeans to dinner on casual nights since I have been cruising. And not just on Carnival and in reality it has never been a issue. Only on these boards.;)

 

 

 

LOL! Could that be what the op was talking about:rolleyes:

 

Thanks Ted:) Trock's great isn't she........

 

Dang my palms were itchy!:D

[trock]

I've been around a long time and don't think the arguments have got any worse than they always have been. Some get nasty, some don't. When they get too nasty, they get zapped. There have been cruise boards in the past that were MUCH MORE popular than CC where pages would fill in minutes, if not seconds. But no moderators and the nastiness got incredible. And then trolls made it impossible to post anything and the boards went away. When I first came here I felt that C@ and CM were equally popular cruise boards. Now they are ghost boards in comparison to CC.

 

Dan

 

 

JMHO-c@ was/is much more civil, John would not put up with half the nonsense that goes on in some of these threads (and he does it in a friendly way without leaving one feeling like they were censored-but the traffic there is much lighter so he is able to).. but with that said.. CC is much more interactive and more informative...

;)

[trock]

You titled your answer "why is this even a topic" - well perhaps you should have just gone to another thread... or started your own thread about how lucky we all are to have expendable income.

 

When I see a post that I try to answer with my opinion to help someone with their VACATION, and then someone gets nasty and rude at me when my response was quite civilized and purely MHO, yes, I take offense. It's human nature. I don't believe people here are upset because others have a different point of view, it's how they express it.

 

 

No offense.. but your own post is a good example of what you are talking about.. You could have ignored the posters topic title and just responded with your second paragraph. Instead he may read it differently that your intent and go on the defense.... and then the volley begins...;)

[dbogusch]

If something is being said you do not like....just go to another thread.....that is what is wrong...people do not understand because someone does not have your point of view does not make them a bad person....just be glad that we are talking about something that is a luxury......allot of people are being laid off...losing their homes..jobs...etc.......WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A VACATION on this site...just relax....if you someone's opinion is getting to you just change to another thread.....but.. because again in these dark times if something about a vacation is upsetting you or what someone writes about a cruise line's rule that has changed consider yourself among the lucky......

 

While reading this particular post, something occurred to me. I've been asking myself for awhile why people get so mean and nasty. Maybe it is because things are so bad in our economy. Before when people went on vacation it was just a nice break from things. Now, people don't get to vacation at the same rate as before so when they get to take a cruise and things don't go exactly as planned it sets them off. Tempers and patience with cruising is shorter because tempers and patience at home is shorter. Just a thought...I don't know if this is true but it made me wonder.

[dan40]

While reading this particular post, something occurred to me. I've been asking myself for awhile why people get so mean and nasty. Maybe it is because things are so bad in our economy. Before when people went on vacation it was just a nice break from things. Now, people don't get to vacation at the same rate as before so when they get to take a cruise and things don't go exactly as planned it sets them off. Tempers and patience with cruising is shorter because tempers and patience at home is shorter. Just a thought...I don't know if this is true but it made me wonder.

 

You could go and look at this thread;

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=686728

 

It started back in 1/08, but it could just as easily been from 1990. Same kind of craziness and nastiness has been going on at LEAST that long. OR much, much longer.

 

Dan

[picklebongo]

I tend to ask questions which some consider very unusual and I get bashed by many whenever they see "picklebongo" in a thread header. If a thread becomes heated, then the op gets blamed for trying to start something and a poor reputation ensues. It's not every day that threads are started about taking disabled passengers on a cruise and being concerned about tablemates who may be grossed out by their eating habits, or prayer at the table, but these seemingly innocent threads can become heated with absolutely no provocation by the op, as I can testify to.

 

I am often surprised how uncivil folks can be, but that's simply because we are not face-to-face and this would never happen otherwise. I just make it a rule to never respond in a rude fashion, no matter how bad the namecalling gets and I'm the same in real life. I'm not easily provoked.

[Cruiser23490578]

I tend to ask questions which some consider very unusual and I get bashed by many whenever they see "picklebongo" in a thread header. If a thread becomes heated, then the op gets blamed for trying to start something and a poor reputation ensues. It's not every day that threads are started about taking disabled passengers on a cruise and being concerned about tablemates who may be grossed out by their eating habits, or prayer at the table, but these seemingly innocent threads can become heated with absolutely no provocation by the op, as I can testify to.

 

I am often surprised how uncivil folks can be, but that's simply because we are not face-to-face and this would never happen otherwise. I just make it a rule to never respond in a rude fashion, no matter how bad the namecalling gets and I'm the same in real life. I'm not easily provoked.

 

Pickle I think even a "hint" at a subject such as religion (the prayer thread) or politics (none that you've started) can bring out both the best and worst in people. Like Dan said, that kind of craziness has been going on for a long time......

[Deckhawk]

While reading this particular post, something occurred to me. I've been asking myself for awhile why people get so mean and nasty. Maybe it is because things are so bad in our economy. Before when people went on vacation it was just a nice break from things. Now, people don't get to vacation at the same rate as before so when they get to take a cruise and things don't go exactly as planned it sets them off. Tempers and patience with cruising is shorter because tempers and patience at home is shorter. Just a thought...I don't know if this is true but it made me wonder.

 

Yup - cruise critic has gotten nasty because of the economy. It's all Bush's fault! j/k.. ;)

[Deckhawk]

I am often surprised how uncivil folks can be, but that's simply because we are not face-to-face and this would never happen otherwise.

 

This is quite true. Everyone is extremely brave when they don't have to talk to you face to face. I think the best examples are the news sites where people can leave comments. I almost feel bad when I read articles and see how bad people get slandered for no reason. However, if you want to know how people REALLY feel, this is the way to get the open and honest opinions...

[zqvol]

No' date=' it's not Carnival's fault that little junior invades the hot tub; it's the parents. The jeans issue is in response to the Jed Clampetts who haven't a clue what a cruise is supposed to be and have never been exposed to social situations where one is expected to comport themselves with some sort of social grace....the cruiselines have capitulated to that market in almost all respects.

 

And, just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's proper or the right thing to do.[/quote']

 

What is right or proper? What is a Jed Clampett? What is a cruise supposed to be?

 

As has been mentioned things change. The dress and cruise of today are not what they were even five years ago. If people expect things to remain the same then they are going to have to pay for the upscale lines, not the luxury lines because a lot of them have changed and are casual in nature.

 

The problems arise from people who don't want, and are hard pressed to accept change. The cruise lines are in business to make money. They have to adapt to what their customers want, it is not the other way around.

 

People who are not happy with the change have three choices as I see it, either change, find a different cruise line that meets their needs or stay at home.

 

Complaining and raising cain on CC does nothing at all except get discussion way off track and turn them into personal soapboxes.

 

Happy cruising to all.

[basketsiam]

This is quite true. Everyone is extremely brave when they don't have to talk to you face to face.

 

I have to say that I used to spend a great deal of time on these boards but have essentially stopped for the last year or so. Hot topic discussions that quickly became rude just burned me out to the point where I no longer want to participate. It just required too much energy!!! The only reason I'm here now is to enter the MSC free cruise giveaway that my husband informed me of!!!!:cool::)

[Catrin]

Very interesting reading on a Sunday Morning.....

 

 

I have been coming to these boards for well over 7 years.... I read them every single day...Why? because they are fun, informative.... and I like to help people.

It took me days to read this thread, because I usually don't even bother with threads that are "Discussion Threads". The reason why, is they usually take a turn somewhere out in left field.. then the personal attacks start.. then it goes out to right field.... then the personal attacks start, etc etc etc.

 

What we all must realize, for those who have been here for years.. is that CC has new members daily. Those members do not know that "kids and tipping" or "saving deck chairs" has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Giving members simple answers to simple questions sometimes is all that is needed. Lectures or sarcastic remarks only hurt the feelings that this board is helpful... (unless those sarcastic remarks come from Dan, who makes me laugh daily ;))

 

Yes, cruising has changed from my first cruise almost 17 years ago. But it doesn't mean that I do not want to share my experiences, or read about others. It still means we all enjoy something so much that we want to help others enjoy the wonderful aspects of cruising... and give them advice to maximize thier vacation!!!

 

Catrin

[pnjkeith]

I understand what the original poster is saying' date=' and I tend to agree with her. For nearly seven years, I have been a frequent reader and an infrequent poster on these boards. They are not as lively or as entertaining as in the past, but the info provided is invaluable, and my wife and I have personally benefited from it on a number of cruises. But the boards lack the zest of the past, and cruising is sacricificng some its great traditions.

 

Dan[/quote']

 

Well said. I have been around a while too, i have noticed that threads are deleted faster now than in the past.

[Deckhawk]

What we all must realize, for those who have been here for years.. is that CC has new members daily. Those members do not know that "kids and tipping" or "saving deck chairs" has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Giving members simple answers to simple questions sometimes is all that is needed. Lectures or sarcastic remarks only hurt the feelings that this board is helpful... (unless those sarcastic remarks come from Dan, who makes me laugh daily ;))

 

 

I agree with you totally - but there are two things that are extremely frustrating to me:

 

1) When something simple can be found by using google or the Carnival website is posted (ex. "What is the tipping policy on-board?" - go to www.carnival.com and search 'tipping' and you find the policy). Maybe all of the common questions need to be sticky's on the board. That would make things more clear...

 

2) Someone asks a question that was just debated at lenght a week ago. I get tired of the same debates all of the time. Just search for it and read the information yourself. If you have something to add, post your comment on the existing thread.

 

I'm not saying that anything above gives me the right to be rude to them (I just ignore the posts or post that they should search), but it is very frustrating and honestly - a waste of time.

 

~from my soapbox... :)

[steveaaaaa]

What we all must realize, for those who have been here for years.. is that CC has new members daily. Those members do not know that "kids and tipping" or "saving deck chairs" has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times. Giving members simple answers to simple questions sometimes is all that is needed. Lectures or sarcastic remarks only hurt the feelings that this board is helpful... (unless those sarcastic remarks come from Dan, who makes me laugh daily ;))

 

 

Seems simple but its not.We have too many people who like to make crap up.Lets take Formal nights.They are gone,but a few weeks ago we had a poster post that 99% were dressed in Formal attire:rolleyes:.What a joke.This is the type of info that new people get the wrong idea from.You want to delete post's?This is the type that should be deleted when they are 100% wrong and misleading.

Steve

[Guienevere_Arianette]

There are many reasons I don't normally get involved...for one thing, it's futile.

 

But the main reason I don't get involved is because of all of the presumptions and sterotypes involved with the above controversial topics.

 

Take dressing in the dining room. DB and I are, to say the least, counterculture. Although we are both 30, we look as if we are 20. Dreads, facial piercings, tattoos (both of my arms are half sleeved, which for a female is still a relatively small trend). He's a tattoo artist and I'm a writer/English professor at a university. It would seem, based on our outer appearance, that we are part of the "masses" of "low culture" (I feel like I saw this phraseology somewhere on these boards) and that we eschew the dining tradition of dressing up.

 

Actually, we are completely the opposite! We adore cruise elegant/formal nights. When we book at the supper club or go to the Captain's dinner, DB is in black tie and I'm in cocktail gowns or evening wear :) Yes, we get stares from everyone onboard...I must say, the elegance of a black cocktail dress with a halter top is somewhat, ah, jarred with my sleeved arms, but so what!?

 

Here's the funny part...all the people on the cruise who may have looked down on us all week long as being part of the tacky, uncultured masses are utterly shocked when we dress up...and they seem offended! It's almost like, "Hey, you are not supposed to look nice! You are obviously low class...the tats and piercings prove it. Don't confuse us by dressing accordingly!"

 

....now that I've shared this, I don't know my original intent...it seemed more focused when I began this post! In any event, I guess what bothers me most about the controversial hot topics are that so many sterotypes and presumptions are involved. Just because I look like a slob doesn't mean I hog chairs, wear my bathrobe to the lido breakfast buffet, or wear my cutoffs and bikini top to dinner :)

[trock]

I tend to ask questions which some consider very unusual and I get bashed by many whenever they see "picklebongo" in a thread header. If a thread becomes heated, then the op gets blamed for trying to start something and a poor reputation ensues. It's not every day that threads are started about taking disabled passengers on a cruise and being concerned about tablemates who may be grossed out by their eating habits, or prayer at the table, but these seemingly innocent threads can become heated with absolutely no provocation by the op, as I can testify to.

 

 

Post on Pickle! I like your threads.. they are thought provoking.. and different.. I like different ;) Whether or not I agree, is irrelevant..

 

 

I am often surprised how uncivil folks can be, but that's simply because we are not face-to-face and this would never happen otherwise. I just make it a rule to never respond in a rude fashion, no matter how bad the namecalling gets and I'm the same in real life. I'm not easily provoked.

 

This is quite true. Everyone is extremely brave when they don't have to talk to you face to face. I think the best examples are the news sites where people can leave comments. I almost feel bad when I read articles and see how bad people get slandered for no reason. However, if you want to know how people REALLY feel, this is the way to get the open and honest opinions...

 

 

Anything I say on this board I would have no problem saying face to face...;) In Fact on this board.. I think I am more tame than in person..:D

[trock]

There are many reasons I don't normally get involved...for one thing, it's futile.

 

But the main reason I don't get involved is because of all of the presumptions and sterotypes involved with the above controversial topics.

 

Take dressing in the dining room. DB and I are, to say the least, counterculture. Although we are both 30, we look as if we are 20. Dreads, facial piercings, tattoos (both of my arms are half sleeved, which for a female is still a relatively small trend). He's a tattoo artist and I'm a writer/English professor at a university. It would seem, based on our outer appearance, that we are part of the "masses" of "low culture" (I feel like I saw this phraseology somewhere on these boards) and that we eschew the dining tradition of dressing up.

 

Actually, we are completely the opposite! We adore cruise elegant/formal nights. When we book at the supper club or go to the Captain's dinner, DB is in black tie and I'm in cocktail gowns or evening wear :) Yes, we get stares from everyone onboard...I must say, the elegance of a black cocktail dress with a halter top is somewhat, ah, jarred with my sleeved arms, but so what!?

 

Here's the funny part...all the people on the cruise who may have looked down on us all week long as being part of the tacky, uncultured masses are utterly shocked when we dress up...and they seem offended! It's almost like, "Hey, you are not supposed to look nice! You are obviously low class...the tats and piercings prove it. Don't confuse us by dressing accordingly!"

 

....now that I've shared this, I don't know my original intent...it seemed more focused when I began this post! In any event, I guess what bothers me most about the controversial hot topics are that so many sterotypes and presumptions are involved. Just because I look like a slob doesn't mean I hog chairs, wear my bathrobe to the lido breakfast buffet, or wear my cutoffs and bikini top to dinner :)

 

 

G.. We get the same reaction.. (They still use the term, counterculture? LOL)

 

My tattoos and piercings are part of me but certainly do not make the person who I am... I like to think my mind, personality and heart do... Whatever I accessorize my body with is just extra.. ;)

 

When we got married.. we wore black.. and would you believe a couple of people made nasty comments... at my own wedding!

Golden Rule: NEVER judge a book by it's cover!:)

[NAMVET]

Just make sure you don't say something that the "moderators" don't like or they will kick you off the board. Having said that, I will say goodbye:D