Goodie goodies vs. Rule benders.

[G'ma]

There is a difference between braking the Law and living life on ones own terms by ignoring artibrary rules. We are not sheep, we make independent decisions.

 

There are no "arbitrary" rules to "break". Rules are rules and there is nothing arbitrary about them...whether it's on a ship, in a car, at home or at work.

 

When enough people find a rule to be unfair or biased in some way, the method for getting beyond that rule is usually action of some sort to get the rule overturned.

 

"Breaking" the rules is simply that - and nothing else. Someone has decided that they are above the rule, don't like the rule, disagree with it, find it silly, etc. Instead of doing something proactive, they cheat.

 

While it's true that there is a difference between a "law" and a "rule", the decision to ignore either comes from the same place....a lack of a personal compass and a sense of entitlement.

[Kristi Williamson]

There are no "arbitrary" rules to "break". Rules are rules and there is nothing arbitrary about them...whether it's on a ship' date=' in a car, at home or at work.

 

When enough people find a rule to be unfair or biased in some way, the method for getting beyond that rule is usually action of some sort to get the rule overturned.

 

"Breaking" the rules is simply that - and nothing else. Someone has decided that they are above the rule, don't like the rule, disagree with it, find it silly, etc. Instead of doing something proactive, they cheat.

 

While it's true that there is a difference between a "law" and a "rule", the decision to ignore either comes from the same place....a lack of a personal compass and a sense of entitlement.[/quote']

 

So by that, we can assume what you're saying G'ma is that you have never broken a rule. You have ALWAYS given every quarter you've found on the street to someone because it wasn't yours and therefore by keeping it, you'd be thief. You've ALWAYS come to an absolute COMPLETE stop at every stop sign, even if you could see for 1/2 mile in each direction that nothing was coming.

 

You have NEVER, not even once, gossiped about someone? Even though, TECHNICALLY, that COULD be considered slander? You've NEVER looked at another man and thought, "HEY! He's HOT!", even if you WERE married and you'd agreed to HONOR your man. Checking out some other guys booty isn't honoring your man, by the way.

 

You've never, not once, gone over the speed limit, not even by ONE mile per hour? Well, I'd say that we all know you're lying if you say you've never broken a rule. Unless you're Jesus, your moral compass is JUST like the rest of us, whether you like that or not. In essence, you've convinced yourself that you aren't full of crap, when in reality, you are.

 

I find it so funny that so many people would actually come on here and even hint, much less flat out say, that they have NEVER done any such thing. Well, I'm calling you out...you may have convinced yourself you're not a rule breaker. But, you ARE a liar (perhaps even delusional) and your personal compass is trying to convince you that when you DID break the rules, it was different, because YOU had a really good reason. LOL The difference is I'm just flat out saying that, on occassion, in more ways that just bringing my own alcohol on board, I DO sometimes break "rules".

 

How incredibly sad that there are some on here that truly believe they are that perfect. No wonder we're in the mess we're in. Most people have lost the ability to just admit that they are, in fact, imperfect. (think....I did NOT have sex with that woman... Bill Clinton)

 

To even suggest that there isn't a VAST difference between breaking arbitrary "rules" and raping a child is completely assinine and I'm glad you aren't in a position of any importance anywhere in the world. Zimbabwe might be best for you as they also adhere to anything you do incorrectly is equal and you should die (actually they punish LESS harshly for child abuse)....

[Kristi Williamson]

True.

 

But it is no more fatuous than the driving over the speed limit analogy that rule "benders" always bring up when their behavior or actions are criticized by those who believe in acting in accordance with the ship's rules and regulations.

 

Yes, it IS more fatuous. By far.

 

Raping a child/giving a 12 year cocaine = smuggling rum onboard. I don't think so.

 

Smuggling booze on board = breaking the speed limit. You may not LIKE it, but that's a MUCH more appropriate analogy.

[BruceMuzz]

I have really REALLY tried to stay away from this one, but when a response such as this one is posted to a question about rules, I have to shake my head and wonder.

 

To even attempt to draw a comparison between a criminal act and a reasonably good humoured discussion on the ethos of rule breaking is utterly fatuous.

 

Kristi,

 

You and I are in total agreement on this issue.

 

I posted it only because a surprisingly large percentage of the American population does not agree with you and me. The local American Police Departments also do not agree with us.

 

Every cruise (without fail) on my ship we catch many people who have brought forbidden drugs onboard, using them, and distributing them to other passengers (some adults/some children).

Every cruise (without fail) on my ship we catch many people bringing forbidden alcohol onboard, using it, and distributing it to other passengers (some over 21/some under).

 

When we try to stop these people with forbidden drugs and forbidden alcohol they all have the same attitude and the same answer: "We are not breaking any laws - just bending the rules".

 

And when we try to involve the Police and FBI, we get the same answer as well.

[MadManOfBethesda]

Smuggling booze on board = breaking the speed limit. You may not LIKE it, but that's a MUCH more appropriate analogy.

 

You need to pay better attention.

 

Re-read my initial post on this thread.

 

I've already stipulated that smuggling booze is merely breaking a rule.

 

My "complaint" is with people who share soda cards with other members of their family. That is not the same as speeding 1 mph over the limit.

 

That is out and out theft.

 

In both situations, you are depriving the cruise line of their profit-making ability; however, in the first instance, you are using your own supplies to do so. In the second, you would be using the ship's supplies.

 

Let's see how you like this analogy:

 

First situation: A person pays for a single soda card but surreptitiously shares it with three other members of his family, thus using 4X the amount of product that he paid for.

 

Second situation: A person buys a single postcard in the gift shop, but surreptitiously takes three more postcards as he walks out in order to give them to other members of his family, thus using 4X the amount of product he paid for.

 

I can't wait to hear your rationalization as to why the former is fine, but the latter is not.

[Kristi Williamson]

Kristi,

 

You and I are in total agreement on this issue.

 

I posted it only because a surprisingly large percentage of the American population does not agree with you and me. The local American Police Departments also do not agree with us.

 

Every cruise (without fail) on my ship we catch many people who have brought forbidden drugs onboard, using them, and distributing them to other passengers (some adults/some children).

Every cruise (without fail) on my ship we catch many people bringing forbidden alcohol onboard, using it, and distributing it to other passengers (some over 21/some under).

 

When we try to stop these people with forbidden drugs and forbidden alcohol they all have the same attitude and the same answer: "We are not breaking any laws - just bending the rules".

 

And when we try to involve the Police and FBI, we get the same answer as well.

 

Wow! Where, in America, is it NOT forbidden to give illegal substances to a minor?

 

I've actually seen people kicked off a cruise ship for bringing marijuana, so I know they monitor that.

 

As a grown woman, I am NOT breaking any laws. It's perfectly legal for me to drink. Again, that's not what this thread is about, nor intended for. I am, and have FULLY acknowledge, that I am breaking a "rule" that I feel is completely unreasonable. While I purchase around 70% of my alcohol on board (the fruu fruu ones), I also enjoy a nice cognac on my balcony each evening before my meal that I do bring with me and will continue to do so. I will also publically state that I have never given alcohol to anyone, much less a minor, and I am not going to take responsibility for the people who do. That's something they'll have to live with and answer for, just like I have to live with having my drink on my balcony in the privacy of my room. I find that I can live with that.

 

Again, this was never my point. My entire point, which only a very few even seem willing to acknowledge, is that every person who has typed one single word in this thread is ALSO a rule breaker somewhere in their lives. I never intended to centralize it down to smuggling booze. That was merely MY broken "rule". The OP clearly stated what he was looking for and I answered it as honestlyas I know how. It's that simple for me.

 

Somehow, many decided to actually state on a public forum that they didn't break rules, or when they did it was ONLY inadverdently. That's a lie, whether they like it or not. EVERY person on the planet has willfully broken a "rule" at some point in their lives, and by it's very definition, we are, therefore, all rules breakers to one extent or another.

 

Again, keep in mind I'm not talking about murder, rape, drugs, terrorism, child molestation, etc.... I find it to be increasingly sad that I would even have to state the things I'm NOT talking about, because whether any of the "saints" will ever admit it on here, they know exactly what I'm saying and they know they've done some of things I mentioned. I can only assume that they dislike being completely honest with themselves as they seem to have such a difficult time acknowledging their....human inclinations toward imperfection. :cool:

[Kristi Williamson]

You need to pay better attention.

 

Re-read my initial post on this thread.

 

I've already stipulated that smuggling booze is merely breaking a rule.

 

My "complaint" is with people who share soda cards with other members of their family. That is not the same as speeding 1 mph over the limit.

 

That is out and out theft.

 

In both situations, you are depriving the cruise line of their profit-making ability; however, in the first instance, you are using your own supplies to do so. In the second, you would be using the ship's supplies.

 

Let's see how you like this analogy:

 

First situation: A person pays for a single soda card but surreptitiously shares it with three other members of his family, thus using 4X the amount of product that he paid for.

 

Second situation: A person buys a single postcard in the gift shop, but surreptitiously takes three more postcards as he walks out in order to give them to other members of his family, thus using 4X the amount of product he paid for.

 

I can't wait to hear your rationalization as to why the former is fine, but the latter is not.

 

You'll be waiting a while then. Since that isn't something I do, I wouldn't begin to know why anyone does it.

 

Surely you already realize that when ANYONE breaks a rule, they have justified it BEFORE they break it. Therefore, there will always be some that I would break that you, perhaps, wouldn't. There will always be some YOU would break that I, perhaps, would not. It's basic human behavior, right?

 

By the way, there's no need for your childish sarcasm. You assume that I rationalize what I do, and you'd be right. What you are choosing to ignore is that EVERYONE does that, including you, or we would all be perfect, follow every rule, obey every authority in our lives at all times, never question anything said to us by an authority, never gossip, follow blindly, etc... You may not be comfortable with that, but it's still the truth.

 

Since soda is allowed to brought onto the ships, I can't understand why someone wouldn't just do that. It' MUCH less expensive and more sensible to me. That's, obviously, my personal opinion.

[MadManOfBethesda]

Since that isn't something I do, I wouldn't begin to know why anyone does it.

 

I don't recall anyone asking you to explain why anyone does it.

 

The question was whether you saw any difference between the two "rule-breaking" scenarios. And if so, to explain the difference.

 

But I can understand you not wanting to do so. It sort of shoots a hole through your whole speeding 1mph over the limit analogy.

[Kristi Williamson]

Ummm...actually, your last line clearly stated that you were waiting for me to "rationlize" why OTHER people did something. Therefore, it would require me EXPLAINING why they did if I COULD rationalize it. You are going around in circles in your attempt to avoid admitting that you are a rule breaker and wrong.

 

You assumed that I would view one as "right" and one as "wrong".

 

I also view speeding as technically wrong and not just breaking a "rule" but breaking a "law", however I have gone over the speed limit in my lifetime. So, again, your avoidance of acknowledging your law breaking or rule breaking is almost humorous if you've EVER gone one mile over the speed limit. Again, whether you like it or not, it's the same basic characteristic and every person, including you, has broken rules and in some cases, like speeding, the law. Is it REALLY that difficult for you to see and acknowledge that?

[bqkali]

To answer the original question, I am a goodie-goodie while on a cruise and not a rule breaker. I do not bring alcohol onboard, do not share soda cards, do not chair hog, don't try to skip muster drill, and don't cheat the staff out of tips. Perhaps I broke a rule, but if I did, I am still clueless as to what it was :confused:

 

That being said, I am not a "saint"; just do my best to follow the rules while on the cruise.