Thoughts of quality and service...

[dakrewser]

dakrewser --This board, almost by definition, is a subjective entity. I'm very interested in reading anyone's opinion, whether they have posted 1 time or 5000 times.

So am I. But do you believe everything every stranger on the street walks up and tells you? When you've read multiple postings by a person, it's not that you are more ready to believe them, but that you're in a better position to evaluate what they say.

 

We've had posters who declared that there cruise was "the cruise from hell" because no one would refill their water glass in the Lido at lunchtime. We've had posters declare that the ship was "dead in the water for 30 hours with no food for the passengers" when the reality was that power was out for 3 hours. I also get (in my email inbox) 60-80 messages a day from complete strangers who want to make me a millionaire, re-finace my mortgage, improve my sex life and help me get my green card.

 

So, yes, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. And I'm entitled not to believe the underlying details if I so choose.

 

-dave

[Giorgi-one]

dakrewser:

 

Can you forward emails to improve my sex life? Did they work for you?

 

My negative comments were based on HAL Zuiderdam cruise in August which agreed with other posts. It's still a good value for the money, but not what I would call premium (considerably better than average) or special.

[dakrewser]

My negative comments were based on HAL Zuiderdam cruise in August which agreed with other posts. It's still a good value for the money, but not what I would call premium (considerably better than average) or special.

And, as has been noted, the Zuiderdam (I've not been on her myself) is probably the least "HAL-like" in the fleet. It is a poor reflection on the line, but shouldn't be taken as the typical HAL experience, as many have noted.

 

-dave

[tommy]

Dave,is that a supported opinion on the Zuiderdam or a subjective opinion.Never mind anyway because it doesnt seem to be just the Zuiderdam cutbacks seem to be effecting the entire fleet.This isnt meant to be a knock on Holland just an observation.IMO Holland is still as good or better than most the other lines,an price wise a better deal. TOM

[Nasmas]

I am a HAL cult member I suppose. My husband and I have been on 7 and enjoyed all but one of them. That's not really true, we enjoyed all of them but one was ruined by a mob of rude, obnoxious children. But, that's another story. Every time we think of trying another line, the room sizes turn us off. We were looking for a cruise once and happened on a Penthouse suite for under $2000 for 7 days for both of us. WOW, we thought but, further investigating showed the PS on this line only had 300+ sq ft. Not as big as HAL's S category. That means a lot to us. As long as we're treated well and enjoy the cruises, we'll stay with HAL. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As for the attitude on this board, this is Holland America board, isn't it?

[Ziggy7]

Why is it that someone who has a "bad" HAL cruise must go on and on about the bad stuff trying to chase others away and say to anyone who is against their judgement, that they must be in a "cult"!

 

I mean get over it already, you didnt like it, you said it, now let others decide what value they want to put on it! Yep it's that simple :) The End!

[Silverfox]

We just returned from the Rotterdam yesterday.

 

We were on the Zuiderdam last year the week before the new tipping policy went into effect and we definitely noticed a huge downward trend in service, attitude, and morale in a year. Missing were the smiles from the crew as you passed them. Missing was the good service we have had in the past. It was what you call "minimum to just get a passing grade".

 

Our cabin steward frequently forgot to fill the ice bucket or to empty wastebaskets. When reminded his attitude was just OK so I'll do it -- but no apology. Service in the DR was not up to par in any way. Waiter reached across to serve, didn't take orders or serve the ladies first. Several times one meal at our table arrived up to 10 minutes after the others -- with no explanation. Coffee cups were put down but you couldn't find the asst. waiter to fill them.

 

Seems the crew all had more to do than time to do it and service suffered. Of course, when you know you're going to get a tip at the end of the cruise, why put yourself out.

 

Liked it so much better when you could reward them for their service. Now even an extra tip has to be turned in and that is not fair. It is, after all, OUR MONEY and we should be able to share it as we choose.

 

The Rotterdam was going over to Freeport after we got off -- 1200 workers on board to totally redo the ship in 18 days. Should sparkle after that.

[CruiseWacker23]

Well said Heather. While certainly not as well traveled as many of you, the DW and I have sailed on a couple HAL cruises and spoken with many travel agents and others on those cruises who DO have as much experience. IMO:

 

1. Thus far, our HAL cruises have met our every need and expectation and have been very enjoyable so guess what, our next cruise scheduled is still with HAL.

 

2. Most of the travel agents agree that for many different reasons, HAL is a notch above most other cruiselines for matching dollar for dollar.

 

3. I don't think anyone on here suggested that our DAM ships are the QM2 or one of the elite.

 

4. Bottom line is everyone has their own taste and standards and should make their decisions based on what they like best.

[obriendan]

Cruisewacker stated:

 

3. I don't think anyone on here suggested that our DAM ships are the QM2 or one of the elite.

 

I agree. However, from our experience on a 18 day QM2 cruise, I would say that HAL service is much better!

[Jim Gallup]

Silverfox makes the same service evaluation error that many cruisers make. He assumes that pooling of tips and guaranteed incomes for tipped crew started recently with the new tipping policies. Based on that erroneous assumption, he then concludes that service has deteriorated as a result of that "New" system. He is pretty much dead wrong.

 

Tips on all the major cruise lines have been pooled by waiters and cabin stewards for the past 30 years. Just because you handed an envelope to one of them didn't mean he kept that money. As soon as you left the vessel, all the tipped employees met to divide up the "spoils". You didn't get to see that part, because you were busy looking for your suitcase in the terminal.

Briefly put, WAITERS AND CABIN STEWARDS ALWAYS KNEW THEY WERE GETTING TIPPED WHETHER YOU GAVE THEM ANY MONEY OR NOT. THEY ALWAYS RECEIVED PART OF THE POOL, REGARDLESS OF YOUR GENEROSITY OR STINGINESS. The only motivation they ever had was the opportunity to earn addditional side tips that they were allowed to keep.

Guess what, they still have exactly that same motivation today. NOTHING HAS CHANGED - at least as far as the tipping system really works.

 

What has changed?

Over the past 30 years, the price of a cruise has dropped dramatically. The middle classes can now afford to cruise. America's Middle Class has generally lower expectations in quality and service, than the upper classes we saw a few decades ago. Many of them do not tip nearly as well as the upper classes did in the "good old days". 30 years ago on Royal Viking, the average tip was $19.75 per person per day. Today the cruise line average is $9.75 worldwide. If your yearly salary was effectively cut by 50%, would you still be smiling and excited to do a superlative job?

With a 50% reduction in salary, do you expect the cruise lines to be able to attract the same quality of service employee?

 

Has service on cruise ships suffered over the past several decades?

Absolutely.

Has the quality of cruising guests deteriorated over the past several decades?

Absolutely.

Has the incentive to do a good job (money) gone down over the past several decades?

Absolutely.

 

Whe you insist to pay McDonqlds prices, you should not be surprised to receive McDonalds Service. But you should be surprised to pay McDonalds prices and get something better than McDonalds service - and generally that's what the cruise lines are delivering.

[CruiseWacker23]

Silverfox stated the downward trend of the level of service since the new tipping policy took effect. He is absolutely correct, at least as far as the morale issue goes.If you were working your butt off and knew you were getting $1 or less as a share of a $10 daily tip fee, you wouldn't be smiling either.

One part of his observation is incorrect however. According to HAL, staff or individuals that receive additional or personal envelopes with tips during or following their cruises are allowed to keep all of the money to themselves and not put it in the pool UNLESS that cruiser went to the front desk and had the automatic daily gratuity taken off, which they can do. In that event, the staff working for those people are required to put their "envelope" money in the pool to be split among everyone.

Some might ask how are they going to enforce this rule? I understand the threat of termination on the spot if they are caught not reporting is the tactic. I imagine that the staff involved with the cruisers who "wipe off" the daily gratuity are informed when this is done and at that time are advised they must report anything these people might have given them.

Again, if the personal tips are in addition to the standard daily gratuity fee, they are free to keep it all. HAL apparently only wants to make sure they get their (large) piece of the pie.:mad:

[grannynurse]

In the early 80's. We've been on NCL RCCI, and even the old Premier "Big Red Boat" many times. We had an 8 year hiatus in the 90's, and started cruising again in 2002.

We are older by 20+ years since our first cruise, the market has changed, the passenger demographics have changed, and so has the economy.

 

I know there are many factors that influenced our move to HAL. Initially it was the great new itinerary. But so what. HAL suits our present needs. We are not HAL appologists.

I don't think any of us needs to justify our choice of cruise line. And most of us are not. We're sharing our love of cruising, our experience and information. I thought that's what this board was for.

Hey, I'm happy with HAL, so I'll stay, until I'm not happy.

GN

[caribbean girl]

HeatherInFlorida;

For what it's worth, I like your style!!;)

[ryansmemom]

It is a simple fact that whether or not a person has enjoyed an experience or not is a subjective experience. I do not see how anyone can possibly tell another person that their subjective experience is wrong.

 

We all have the right to choose how we spend our hard earned money on our cruises. We all have our individual likes and dislikes. Our own attitudes and priorities. We all have our levels of tolerance. What may make or break a cruise for one person may be a simple annoyance for another.

 

Chimera and I have over 15 cruises under our belts with RCI and HAL. We enjoyed both lines for different reasons. As far as we are concerned we will continue to sail with HAL or any other line as long as it continues to be a positive experience for us. The operative word being us. We are not shy about making changes when the situation warrents, in our opinion. We recently purchased a new car. We decided to purchase a different model from a different dealer than the company we had purchased cars from for the past 25 years because they were not serving our needs and we found a better product.

 

This thread, in my opinion, has a nasty tone to it. It questions people's perceptions of their experiences and feelings. One may ask the question, has service declined? One may counter with, have prices also diminished? These are questions that may have answers based in fact. We can look at crew/passenger ratios and fare schedules. The more sinister questions are based on the concept that there might be something wrong with someone who is not dissatisfied with HAL enough to stop sailing with them. This is just plain disrespectful and insulting and I believe many of us are reacting to that.

 

I do not think anyone has the right to judge another person's choices based on their personal satisfaction and evaluation of whether or not they are enjoying their experience. That my friends is what we call chutzpah!

 

Linda

[grannynurse]

You said it better than I thought it or wrote it.

GN