Carnival lost my daughter from Camp Carnival

[halos]

I do not understand why everyone thinks the OP is not correct in her opinion.

 

Because people tend to doubt posters who post a complaint against CCL, especially if it's an unusual complaint (I don't recall anyone posting a problem such as this one before) and this was exacerbated (sp??) by the fact that the OP came off as a troll by posting once and not coming back.

 

Bad combo

 

.....unfortunately, she can't really be believed. It comes off as a made up story.

 

BUT even if it is made up, I think good came of it. People are definitely more aware of possibilities now.

[tedjazz]

Not at all. I recieved your jibe in the playful spirit it was intended (another assumption) and intended to respond in kind ( I assumed that you would assume I was responding in jest).

 

Hey - what are they going to do anyway. Say sorry, "that's not our protocol."

 

No Harm, No Foul...Sometimes these subjects get a little emotional and besides what is more important to all of us than our Families and especially our Kids. All we can do is our best, but as I have previously mentioned I have seen and heard(professionally) what kind of "Real" Monsters lurk out there in the world. (BTW, their not all locked up) Their stories still haunt me sometimes. I don't ever want to hear about another victim, any victim, let alone a young child that has been put through some of the horrors of child abduction, sexual molestation, etc. Thats my slant and perspective on the matter. Good Luck to you and your Family. :)

[nealstuber]

I do not understand why everyone thinks the OP is not correct in her opinion. I wonder who you guys would blame (Carnival?) is some crazy pervert abducted your 10 year old. I have seen several times when people then think that the cruise line (all of them) are to blame. The parents take no responsibility in the fact that a ten year old could be taken or even murdered on board a ship. This just blows my mind.

I would blame the abductor.

 

Why would you take your child on a cruise in the first place if you think they might be taken or murdered?

[nrdsb4]

I agree!!!

If protocol isn't followed it can endanger a child(believe me I'm a nurse and I know all about endangerment if protocol is not followed)

my interpretation of "more serious methods" were a mixed bag, a lawsuit? perhaps, employee reprimand?? another possible, how bout further training for the employee? (what I think could be the best scenario)

But frankly we don't know what he/she meant because he/she did not expand on the statement, all we can do is take it at face value, meaning they are pursuing "more serious methods" <shrug>

And does it really matter what it means?

I've enjoyed the discussion on keeping kids safe on the cruises and the differing opinions on how we deal with our kids, the 'holier than thou" stuff and the "i'm raising my kids to be perfect robotic machines that will respond how I taught them at any given situation and you are ruining your kids by overprotection" has really be fairly amusing if you can get around the fact that these are KIDS they are talking about, and I worry about them. Unfortunately they are being raised by these people and hopefully they will be watched over by whatever higher power you believe in, or as Kurban says "hope that works out for ya" lol ..........

Anyway we cannot possibly "know" what the person meant by "more serious measures"

Carole

 

Wow. That is way harsh and a little over the line, imo. I would have been really upset to be in the OP's shoes (I have been called overprotective at times and would never give permission for a 10 y/o to sign herself out), but I would not characterize the folks who have responded that they try to prepare their kids in advance to find their rooms on a ship should something go awry the way you have (and putting quotes to statements that were never made). Being really judgmental apparently goes both ways here!

[themarm]

I agree. Oops, sorry does not cut it.

I also didn't assume she meant litigation...I just assumed she was going up the corporate ladder until she got some satisfaction.

Neither assumption is correct unless the OP ever comes back and elaborates (which doesn't look likely at this point)

 

Not many people on here are more lenient than I am with cruise line mistakes.

When it comes to the safety of the kids, this is quite another story.

 

I would THINK that folks with young kids would be happy with the OP taking whatever measures necessary to make sure Carnival is aware that this should not occur again (IF it ever did...) I would want to know that my kids were under 'great' supervision...and not possibly being taken care of by a (too)young, overworked and inexperienced crew member.

Inexperience and mistakes in the dining room are acceptable...inexperience and laziness and taking care of a child is not.

 

I don't even have young kids and never used the Camp facilities....and this bothers me. I would think people that use the camp would be a little upset with CCL and not the OP :confused::confused:

 

I am scratching my head here...

 

 

did you ever hear the comedian who said, "somewhere in the world, is the WORST doctor."??? i ask this because while i am in complete agreement that under ideal conditions, children recieve first rate care 24/7, i realize that on a practical level that will never happen everywhere for every child. the blame game (what some on here are doing, and others are chafing at) really does not change the fact that sometimes, kids just don't get top notch care.

 

a kid down the street wandered away from a sleeping caregiver, scaled a six foot fence and drowned in a neighbor's pool. will all the blame in the world bring the child back? no.

 

all the blame in the world will not change the fact that in this instance a child signed herself out (a priviledge granted by parent, or it would not have happened, unless that is the protocol not followed alluded to) and sat crying in confusion.

 

i think that changing protocol will not change the fact that another situation will crop up that will make someone seriously unhappy. nor will it buy top notch care for every child in the world, all the time. kids will have accidents. their feelings will get hurt. they will have brushes with danger. tragedy will strike.

 

in short, the world will continue turning and mankind will grind out another day.

[nealstuber]

Wow. That is way harsh and a little over the line, imo. I would have been really upset to be in the OP's shoes, but I would not characterize the folks who have responded that they try to prepare their kids in advance to find their rooms on a ship should something go awry the way you have (and putting quotes to statements that were never made). Being really judgmental apparently goes both ways here!

 

I've seen enough of Carole's post (my Mom is also Carol with an "e") to know she didn't mean it that way.

 

Its funny, there have been several misunderstandings between grown adults with the luxury thinking before they type. Yet, we expect perfect communication from the camp person who may or may not have been overly agressive in presenting options to a child who did not feel well. As has been stated numerous times, kids react differently to different situations and I really think we are expecting an afwul lot from these folks to be able to get it right each and every time. There could have even been language barriers.

[themarm]

I would assume that, in the event of real illness, an attempt is made to contact parents. But, if the school nurses called parents every time a kid said "I don't feel well", well, that would be all she did!

 

so true

 

Its funny, there have been several misunderstandings between grown adults with the luxury thinking before they type. Yet, we expect perfect communication from the camp person who may or may not have been overly agressive in presenting options to a child who did not feel well. As has been stated numerous times, kids react differently to different situations and I really think we are expecting an afwul lot from these folks to be able to get it right each and every time. There could have even been language barriers.

 

bravo!

[wentworth]

Thing is, we don't know what "protocol" was not followed.

 

 

.

 

 

5. If this particular situation *is* true (or if a similar situation came up) I could see it really playing out in several ways:

a. Kid is not supposed to sign herself out. Employee doesn't check the book, and mistakenly allows her to. Conclusion: Carnival wrong.

b. Kid allowed to sign herself out. Kid whiny, tired and says she doesn't feel well. Employee says "Do you want to go back to your room?" She says yes (either because she really wanted to, or because she felt like she "should"). Conclusion: Carnival not wrong.

c. Kid allowed to sign herself out. Ten o'clock approaching. Kid whiny, tired and says she doesn't feel well. Employee says "Well, it is just about time for you to go anyway, because your parents didn't sign you up for the late night party." Conclusion: Carnival not wrong.

 

Doesn't matter what protocol was not followed. If your not going to

follow it why set it?

 

I never suggested that Carnival should adjust or change their guidelines.

Haven't heard of many complaints about Camp Carnival and my

grandddaughter loves it.

 

OP, if telling the truth, and who knows, had a frightening incident with

her child at CampCarnival. She is taking more serious measures than

complaining at the supervisory level.

 

Some parents agree with her in her situation, others think the child

was fine to be sent back to her room. No wrong or right. Parents

should do what they feel comfortable with.

[nrdsb4]

I've seen enough of Carole's post (my Mom is also Carol with an "e") to know she didn't mean it that way.

 

Its funny, there have been several misunderstandings between grown adults with the luxury thinking before they type. Yet, we expect perfect communication from the camp person who may or may not have been overly agressive in presenting options to a child who did not feel well. As has been stated numerous times, kids react differently to different situations and I really think we are expecting an afwul lot from these folks to be able to get it right each and every time. There could have even been language barriers.

 

Yes, as an ICU nurse I'm so well aware of what could happen if I make a mistake. Mistakes can be fatal in medicine, so we do everything we can to try to prevent mistakes. There are all kinds of procedures in place to lessen the chance that they will occur (double, triple, and quadruple checking of medication orders, allergy notification, and on and on). Yet daily, mistakes are made by some of the best doctors, nurses, pharmacists, nursing aides, unit secretaries, etc. You name them, if they are human, they are going to make a mistake eventually no matter how competent, no matter how conscientious. I always pray that my mistakes are small ones.

[Rowan555]

I've seen enough of Carole's post (my Mom is also Carol with an "e") to know she didn't mean it that way.

 

Its funny, there have been several misunderstandings between grown adults with the luxury thinking before they type. Yet, we expect perfect communication from the camp person who may or may not have been overly agressive in presenting options to a child who did not feel well. As has been stated numerous times, kids react differently to different situations and I really think we are expecting an afwul lot from these folks to be able to get it right each and every time. There could have even been language barriers.

 

Speaking from the point of view of the counselors and their cultural differences, where many of the counselors come from, children are VERY independent and self-sufficient by age 10 - some even working many hours a week supporting their families or helping them with their work. So if the child was indeed ill, and the counselor advised her to sign out, it was most likely with the assumption that the child would understand to go back to her room to take medicine, go to bed, etc.

 

I had forgotten about this situation until just now. On our cruise in January, my 8 year old got a very bad headache after being head-butted at camp during a game. She was miserable and the counselors wanted her to be signed out to take some ibuprofen and lie down. She couldn't sign herself out, and the staff had no way to contact us, so they asked my 9 year old son to sign out and go find us and ask us to get his sister. At that time, we had told him he was only to sign out for scavenger hunt activities and when we arrived to sign out his sister, and he understood this rule. We were sitting on the Promenade deck playing cards when he walked up, and I nearly yelled at him because he was not supposed to be wandering the ship, he was supposed to be in camp. He explained the situation, and I signed out his sister (and he signed himself back into camp). As G'ma pointed out earlier, it's a camp and activity program, not a babysitting service, and they don't want kids there who are sick. I had no problem with the way the staff handled the situation, but after reading this thread, I'm sure many parents would be livid if their 9 year old was told to sign out and search the ship for his or her parents!

[kyrisong1]

Folks with a thinner skin might be incensed by the statement that my children are "unfortunate" to be raised by me. The higher power we believe in is God. We thank God for our many blessings and keep them in mind when we face adversity.

In what way did you take this statement to be aimed at you? And I mentioned higher power because there are many different cultures and religions out there and I am not arrogant enough to believe that my religion or belief is the only religion being followed.

Anyway my statement was not aimed at you or anyone else in particular, perhaps the skin isn't as thick as you'd like to believe eh?

happy sailing!!1 Carole

[kyrisong1]

Wow. That is way harsh and a little over the line, imo. I would have been really upset to be in the OP's shoes (I have been called overprotective at times and would never give permission for a 10 y/o to sign herself out), but I would not characterize the folks who have responded that they try to prepare their kids in advance to find their rooms on a ship should something go awry the way you have (and putting quotes to statements that were never made). Being really judgmental apparently goes both ways here!

I wasn't quoting anyone in particular, but I do believe the people saying the kid should have "sucked it up and not cried about it" to be someone I'd tend to not agree with on parenting skills, so I stand by my statement.

The nice thing in life is that you don't have to agree with it. And if you had read all the posts you would have seen the one that agreed we need to prepare our kids with emergent plans in case something goes wrong, those were not the people I was referring to.

The quotes were meant as a general feeling that a few posters were giving out about their parenting and the total obnoxious dismissal of those people that believe that kids should in fact NOT wander the ship alone at the age of 8 or 9, and not meant to be a direct quote. Sort of like when you talk with your hands and put something in parenthesis which isn't actually a direct quote? Not sure if you have read all the posts but if not perhaps you should, if you have then you have misunderstood me or just simply don't see things as I do, either way, no problem.

I have been posting here a while and most people that really know me are aware that I am not harsh at all, but I am very passionate when I truely believe in something, and protecting kids, animals and elderly is all about my passion.

Carole

[kyrisong1]

Speaking from the point of view of the counselors and their cultural differences, where many of the counselors come from, children are VERY independent and self-sufficient by age 10 - some even working many hours a week supporting their families or helping them with their work. So if the child was indeed ill, and the counselor advised her to sign out, it was most likely with the assumption that the child would understand to go back to her room to take medicine, go to bed, etc.

 

I had forgotten about this situation until just now. On our cruise in January, my 8 year old got a very bad headache after being head-butted at camp during a game. She was miserable and the counselors wanted her to be signed out to take some ibuprofen and lie down. She couldn't sign herself out, and the staff had no way to contact us, so they asked my 9 year old son to sign out and go find us and ask us to get his sister. At that time, we had told him he was only to sign out for scavenger hunt activities and when we arrived to sign out his sister, and he understood this rule. We were sitting on the Promenade deck playing cards when he walked up, and I nearly yelled at him because he was not supposed to be wandering the ship, he was supposed to be in camp. He explained the situation, and I signed out his sister (and he signed himself back into camp). As G'ma pointed out earlier, it's a camp and activity program, not a babysitting service, and they don't want kids there who are sick. I had no problem with the way the staff handled the situation, but after reading this thread, I'm sure many parents would be livid if their 9 year old was told to sign out and search the ship for his or her parents!

Rowan your 9 year old sounds as if he has great critical thinking and reasoning skills, however you have to admit they have a great advantage of being VERY familiar with cruising and cruise ships, most of the 8 and 9 year olds are not as fortunate, perhaps your kids are ready for the responsibility of going around the ship on their own, but many kids just aren't ready for that at this age.

Doesn't make them good or bad, just different and less experienced, I'd still error on the side of caution, but then thats me.

Carole

[Socref124]

Mike....There 'might' have been a good discussion going on, but 21 pages of people saying the SAME things over and over again........Do you not think the horse 'might' be dead.

 

You are right though, my comment was uncalled for and I do apologize. It appears that some people on here just like to post things to intentionally hurt or disturb other members and I haven't been here long, but it's already getting old, but I can't just sit and not say something.

 

Thanks for the apology. I do see your point about the 21 pages. Maybe it's a mule and not a horse though.;)LOL I understand where you are coming from and how you feel. I used to feel that way myself. Sometimes people are being sarcastic and sometimes they are going strictly on emotion. Until this last cruise we never had any doings with Camp Carnival. I now know what is being said in the orientation and I have some doubts as to the validity of the OP's complaint. Add to the fact the OP joined CC that day, made one post, hasn't been back and states that RCCL is there cruiseline of choice. What you have to understand is there are some people that love RCCL and enjoy bashing Carnival in any way possible and there are those Carnival lovers that feel the same way towards RCCL. They also go to great lengths to defend Carnival. I will not defend Carnival if I believe they are wrong, however, if they haven't done anything wrong, then I will defend them. In this instance, It is my opinion, using the information supplied by the OP and my limited knowledge of Camp Carnival, that the OP made the mistakes that caused this problem. There are a lot of people out there that aren't happy unless they are complaining about something. And there are a lot out there that are looking to place blame on everything that goes wrong, even when there is no one to blame.

End result, don't get to upset and quit using CC. There is a ton of information on these boards and you have insight that will be helpful to others in the future. These boards are for all of us.:)

[Rowan555]

Rowan your 9 year old sounds as if he has great critical thinking and reasoning skills, however you have to admit they have a great advantage of being VERY familiar with cruising and cruise ships, most of the 8 and 9 year olds are not as fortunate, perhaps your kids are ready for the responsibility of going around the ship on their own, but many kids just aren't ready for that at this age.

Doesn't make them good or bad, just different and less experienced, I'd still error on the side of caution, but then thats me.

Carole

 

I know, that's why I'm bringing this up - I didn't have a problem with what the counselor did, but there are a few people on this thread who have said they will check off the form saying their kids can sign themselves out, but that they are doing this ONLY so their kids can participate in the scavenger hunts. I'm sure they would be distressed if one of the counselors sent their kids searching around the ship (alone) for their parents, not having any idea where they would be. It took my son over 20 minutes to find us, because he kind of went through a mental checklist of the places we might be, and promenade deck across from the casino wasn't even on that list! He was a bit flustered by the time he found us. It's just one more thing parents might want to talk to their kids about ahead of time - for example, making sure to tell the counselors, "No, I am NOT allowed to sign out on my own unless I'm doing a scavenger hunt." Because in our situation, even though my son was not allowed to check out on his own except for the scavenger hunts, he was met with the quandry of the counselor TELLING him to sign out - and for us, he made the right decision in listening to them despite what we had originally told him. For other families, that might not have been the right decision.

 

Don't mean to ramble -I have a migraine and can't think clearly, lol - but anyway, just some more food for thought when parents are preparing their kids for the next cruise.

[LADYBUG34113]

I don't mean this in a bad way but I see all ages of kids running free on ships and are quite comfortable getting around on their own.

 

I agree with a poster that stated maybe the children should be shown they layout, the room to Camp Carnival and back, the room to lido deck etc.

 

If they are out and about they would need to be able to navigate in case of an emergency. Might even have a note with room # in the child's pocket. Every little precaution helps.

 

Glad things turned out good in the end.

[nealstuber]

I wasn't quoting anyone in particular, but I do believe the people saying the kid should have "sucked it up and not cried about it" to be someone I'd tend to not agree with on parenting skills, so I stand by my statement.

 

There's a big diffence between "tending not to agree with someone" and stating that someone's children are unfotunate to have them as parents.

 

I'm really surprised you don't see that.

[penetangjudy]

Don't mean to ramble -I have a migraine and can't think clearly, lol - but anyway, just some more food for thought when parents are preparing their kids for the next cruise.

 

Rowan have you ever tried Imitrex for your migraines? Unless you have 'cardiac' issues I would highly suggest you look into it. Using it has saved my life :)

[nrdsb4]

I wasn't quoting anyone in particular, but I do believe the people saying the kid should have "sucked it up and not cried about it" to be someone I'd tend to not agree with on parenting skills, so I stand by my statement.

The nice thing in life is that you don't have to agree with it. And if you had read all the posts you would have seen the one that agreed we need to prepare our kids with emergent plans in case something goes wrong, those were not the people I was referring to.

The quotes were meant as a general feeling that a few posters were giving out about their parenting and the total obnoxious dismissal of those people that believe that kids should in fact NOT wander the ship alone at the age of 8 or 9, and not meant to be a direct quote. Sort of like when you talk with your hands and put something in parenthesis which isn't actually a direct quote? Not sure if you have read all the posts but if not perhaps you should, if you have then you have misunderstood me or just simply don't see things as I do, either way, no problem.

I have been posting here a while and most people that really know me are aware that I am not harsh at all, but I am very passionate when I truely believe in something, and protecting kids, animals and elderly is all about my passion.

Carole

 

I've read every post. There are a lot of people who do things I don't agree with from a parenting perspective. "Kids should suck it up" would be one of them. Going on to say it's "unfortunate those people are raising those kids" is in fact very judgmental and harsh regardless of your passion. Protecting kids from abuse, neglect, and willful harm is one thing. Another parent on a cruise board stating a philosophy of expecting their kids to become independent too early (a subjective opinion) , and not tolerant of perceived weakness is something we both can disagree with,and it's well within the board rules to state disagreement with that philosophy. But to then conclude that that disagreement gives one the right make judgments about someone's fitness to raise their child based on one parenting issue is not what this board is about. It's about cruising, not making declarations of parental fitness about those who don't share our identical and superior parenting philosophies. I noticed and stated that the ugliness has gone both ways. It should be about the incident as described, which is how Carnival handled the OP's child-it's not about the OP having done a poor job raising their child, nor is it about others with opposite views being bad parents either.

[penetangjudy]

I've read every post. There are a lot of people who do things I don't agree with from a parenting perspective. "Kids should suck it up" would be one of them. Going on to say it's "unfortunate those people are raising those kids" is in fact very judgmental and harsh regardless of your passion. Protecting kids from abuse, neglect, and willful harm is one thing. Another parent on a cruise board stating a philosophy of expecting their kids to become independent too early (a subjective opinion) , and not tolerant of perceived weakness is something we both can disagree with,and it's well within the board rules to state disagreement with that philosophy. But to then conclude that that disagreement gives one the right make judgments about someone's fitness to raise their child based on one parenting issue is not what this board is about. It's about cruising, not making declarations of parental fitness about those who don't share our identical and superior parenting philosophies. I noticed and stated that the ugliness has gone both ways. It should be about the incident as described, which is how Carnival handled the OP's child-it's not about the OP having done a poor job raising their child, nor is it about others with opposite views being bad parents either.

 

This is why I said the horse has been beaten and died a long time ago....now it is about bashing each other and it has taken on a life of its own....and it's not a pretty one.

[nrdsb4]

This is why I said the horse has been beaten and died a long time ago....now it is about bashing each other and it has taken on a life of its own....and it's not a pretty one.

 

You're absolutely right. Time to go read a passport thread I guess.:D

[kyrisong1]

There's a big diffence between "tending not to agree with someone" and stating that someone's children are unfotunate to have them as parents.

 

I'm really surprised you don't see that.

Ok I agree, the sentence was out of line. I should not have posted that unfortunately they are raising those kids. Sometimes I hit the send without really thinking about what I said.

However I do believe that if you have kids, you have the responsibility to raise them, and protect them. That means being there.

Carole

[Kurbanfan]

Ok I agree, the sentence was out of line. I should not have posted that unfortunately they are raising those kids. Sometimes I hit the send without really thinking about what I said.

However I do believe that if you have kids, you have the responsibility to raise them, and protect them. That means being there.

Carole

 

I'm not sure why you were singled out.........the opposite views were very condescending about how children will turn out when they got older if you don't give them freedom on a floating city:rolleyes:

I agree with you!

[trock]

Rowan have you ever tried Imitrex for your migraines? Unless you have 'cardiac' issues I would highly suggest you look into it. Using it has saved my life :)

 

 

OT

 

YOU TWO, Too?

Omg.. I have chronic headache syndrome with at least 5 or more migraines per month. .Imitrex.. been there done that..

Have you tried Maxalt and Zomig?

 

Zomig, for me, has worked the best.. I 'snort' the cartridge as directed and within minutes I am starting to feel relief.. I also take fioricet before or after.. per the doctor.. Zomig has changed my life.. there was a time where I would be out of work for days.. longest migraine lasted 7 or 8 days straight..

 

 

Sorry to go off topic, but the subject of migraines.. very sensitive to me:)

[Rowan555]

OT

 

YOU TWO, Too?

Omg.. I have chronic headache syndrome with at least 5 or more migraines per month. .Imitrex.. been there done that..

Have you tried Maxalt and Zomig?

 

Zomig, for me, has worked the best.. I 'snort' the cartridge as directed and within minutes I am starting to feel relief.. I also take fioricet before or after.. per the doctor.. Zomig has changed my life.. there was a time where I would be out of work for days.. longest migraine lasted 7 or 8 days straight..

 

 

Sorry to go off topic, but the subject of migraines.. very sensitive to me:)

 

Imitrex does nothing for me, and Maxalt gives me rebound headaches from hell. I will have to try Zomig. My doctor moved to FL 2 years ago and I haven't gotten around to getting a new one yet. After spending 4 days in bed, I think it's time to find one.