Flatbush Flyer

Step out of fantasyland. I have NEVER said “almost ALWAYS better.” What I have said is to ALWAYS do the math to arrive at a “net daily rate” comparison for “all required and optionally desired costs” and then adjust for the qualitative factors.

Send that message to Howard Sherman (and FDR).

Better than the overgeneralized beliefs that stop so many from doing the real math. What are those circumstances? Intercontinental cruises lasting more than two weeks and requiring air travel (not included in mass market fares). Cruises with more exotic itineraries. Passengers wanting more than a bare bones experience who expect to have internet, specialty restaurants, covered gratuities and SBC (for starters). Use of a line’s preferred TAs who are on a sliding scale of commissions and who make rebates. If one fits that profile, they need to do the math and, even if the premium line comes out a few hundred $ more, the net daily cost difference from the mass market line should be weighed against the quality quotient. A good deal and true value are not just about the single factor of price regardless of the product. Hopefully, you see that everyday in your own life.

True- FDR is worth a shot as well. That said, Sherman is new in this particular job and that’s always a good time to pressure someone when you are in a position to lose nothing. FDR has always treated O differently- it’s his baby and it’s success while not following the crowd got him the NCLH top spot. If nothing else, catalyzing a discussion (even a five minute one) between Sherman and FDR may make a decision reversal easier to do when the Covid numbers spike as a result of the lesser restrictions.

And then you have to eat their food. You get what you pay for...

Are you as displeased as I am with NCLH’s recent decision to allow unvaccinated passengers onboard Oceania ships? From the recent posts here, it looks like a good prediction of a significant number of unhappy O regulars. Well, there is something you can do about it right now, today. Let the new O CEO know if your upset. If, like me, you recently received the official announcement about this vastly premature decision (NO - Covid is not yet an endemic nor is it as harmless as so many ill-informed folks believe) from O, let the new CEO Howard Sherman know about it. You can write a letter to Howard Sherman at O’s corporate headquarters: Howard Sherman, President & CEO Oceania Cruises 7665 Corporate Center Drive Miami, FL 33126 USA I don’t have his direct email address yet (though, if it follows the norm at O, it would be HSHERMAN@OCEANIACRUISES.COM). Calling will probably get you the run-around. But, if you’re willing to do a bit of research, you can probably get fairly close to his direct office line (or, at least, his admin. asst.) by contacting Chris Elliott, the syndicated travel writer and ombudsman. His crew at non-profit Elliott Advocacy (elliott.org) are amazing when you need to get to someone who can actually do something. (No cost for this service AND it works). I could provide a stock letter but I’m not a big fan of that tactic since his admin. assistant would probably stop reading after the first repetitive handful. So, I suggest you first state your past positive experience with O, along with your O Club status and what future O plans you have/had - that is, until this misguided decision to allow unvaxed passengers onboard. BTW, if you happen to be a medical or other health professional, identify yourself and consider adding a citation or two (no more) to justify your upset. NOTE: This exact strategy worked several years ago when O announced that vaping would be allowed with less restrictions. The outpouring of unhappy customers got that decision reversed in less than a week. While I expect that the certain jump in onboard Covid cases in the very near future will see the decision reversed by early 2024 and then flip flopped with every major spike and bad press, this is no time to just sit by. It would also help tremendously to impress upon your TAs to do the same thing - particularly if they are among O’s “preferred partners.” We, as passengers, may be mere rounding errors in O’s daily bottom line. But, they represent millions in revenue. Best of luck with whatever you do to stop this lunacy.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Are you as displeased as I am with NCLH’s recent decision to allow unvaccinated passengers onboard Oceania ships? From the recent posts here, it looks like a good prediction of a significant number of unhappy O regulars. Well, there is something you can do about it right now, today. Let the new O CEO know if your upset. If, like me, you recently received the official announcement about this vastly premature decision (NO - Covid is not yet an endemic nor is it as harmless as so many ill-informed folks believe) from O, let the new CEO Howard Sherman know about it. You can write a letter to Howard Sherman at O’s corporate headquarters: Howard Sherman, President & CEO Oceania Cruises 7665 Corporate Center Drive Miami, FL 33126 USA I don’t have his direct email address yet (though, if it follows the norm at O, it would be HSHERMAN@OCEANIACRUISES.COM). Calling will probably get you the run-around. But, if you’re willing to do a bit of research, you can probably get fairly close to his direct office line (or, at least, his admin. asst.) by contacting Chris Elliott, the syndicated travel writer and ombudsman. His crew at non-profit Elliott Advocacy (elliott.org) are amazing when you need to get to someone who can actually do something. (No cost for this service AND it works). I could provide a stock letter but I’m not a big fan of that tactic since his admin. assistant would probably stop reading after the first repetitive handful. So, I suggest you first state your past positive experience with O, along with your O Club status and what future O plans you have/had - that is, until this misguided decision to allow unvaxed passengers onboard. BTW, if you happen to be a medical or other health professional, identify yourself and consider adding a citation or two (no more) to justify your upset. NOTE: This exact strategy worked several years ago when O announced that vaping would be allowed with less restrictions. The outpouring of unhappy customers got that decision reversed in less than a week. While I expect that the certain jump in onboard Covid cases in the very near future will see the decision reversed by early 2024 and then flip flopped with every major spike and bad press, this is no time to just sit by. It would also help tremendously to impress upon your TAs to do the same thing - particularly if they are among O’s “preferred partners.” We, as passengers, may be mere rounding errors in O’s daily bottom line. But, they represent millions in revenue. Best of luck with whatever you do to stop this lunacy.

FWIW: Oceania learned a major lesson from watching Azamara for several years before it was dumped to allow Celebrity to better pretend it is a premium line. In any case, Azamara was always known for its overnights in ports- something that O now does on a very regular basis with both two and three day stays on many of the longer itineraries. It was sad to see Azamara treated that way. It really was the other truly “premium” line.

The “jury is still out” on the results of the purchase of Azamara (by Sycamore Partners, which had zero cruise ship experience) on its product.

I think you should give that cruise another try 😳

Only nonsense when the particular premium ship with desired amenities costs less than the mass market ship within the same desired amenities. As has been shown on multiple occasions here on CC with actual numbers (do a search), an intercontinental cruise requiring air and the options many of us want (unlimited beverages, internet, specialty restaurants, and at least one amenity like booze, tours or SBC plus a TA fare rebate) will almost always bottom line under or close to a well chosen/negotiated premium line quote. No brainer when you also consider the better food, service, cabin amenities, passenger load and favorable crew and space ratios. You gotta do the math fir your desired/preferences. But to just look at comparing cabin prices is not very savvy shopping.

It’s not the “nickels” as much as it is the side show “barkering” and the “quality” of experiences issue. For example, a CLIA study done several years ago cited the vast difference on cruiselines’ cost per passenger for food. Mass market lines cut every possible corner. Sorry, but on the long cruises we take, the equivalent of Golden Corral just doesn’t do it. I’m sure there are areas of your life where the “bare minimum” just doesn’t work. With cruising, it’s enough of an issue that it supports the success of entire other industry segments.

Yes - very surprising - especially since it will surely increase crew illness due to exposure to an ever changing passenger base.

Agreed that horizon sighting doesn’t work for everyone. But, for others, it gets all the sensory Items to jive.

Let’s hope so.

Way too broad a generalization. Most folks who choose premium/lux lines, and even the ship-within-a-ship, want better food, service and less crowds, nickel-diming etc. AND, most of them could care less with who else on board is impressed, envious, etc.

It’s the Ocean - so no guarantees. That said, Oceania would be a far better experience than the other lines you mentioned.

Agree with all but the inside cabin. Fir so many folks, sighting the horizon through a large ocean view window or balcony glass can make a world of difference.

There are more dogs than kids in SF (not kidding- those are the stats for City/County of SF). In any case, it’s a toss up. What is different is that, in SF, the cruise terminal is right on the Embarcadero while, for LA, it’s an industrial port with the main local attractions a traffic jam or three away. With SF, you’re talking about a more manageable destination- 49 square miles surrounded by reality. Plus, cruising out of the Golden Gate - particularly at sunset - is a sight you’ll remember always.

At least for O and Regent, this is a MAJOR mistake - particularly the “no vaccine” requirement! In any case, the sure-to-increase onboard Covid numbers will eventually reverse that decision.

“The cheapest option.” Therein lies one of the major reasons why the quality of many mass market lines has declined so noticeably (so much so that some have created a “ship within a ship” concept to offer an alternative to their new standard of low quality everything, overcrowding, etc.)

But then you have to eat their food!. 👀😳

Over recent years, there has become a default CC M&G on Oceania ships (unless someone has volunteered to survey the Roll Call for better times/locations). Pre-pandemic, it was immediately following the embarkation Muster Drill and it was located on the Starboard side of Horizons adjacent to the bar. When the Muster rules turned to video, the place stayed the same but the time became 6ish (allowing folks to grab a cocktail just before Happy Hour ended and just as the music started. Perhaps not the best for all itineraries. But, at least, it establishes a starting point.

Thank for the nice words. Note that, where I am focused on value is in the premium segment and not on the luxury segment. That said, remember that, on all-inclusive luxury lines, you get stuff you may not need nor want (e.g., booze, tours, et al.). On premium lines, you get what most folks would consider essentials such as beverages and internet. On a line like Oceania, you also get airfare but can take a credit which, on a transoceanic flight, can be a considerable chunk of change (that someone on a mass market cruise would have to pay out-if-pocket. Thus, I agree with “do the math” when it come to “quantity.” But, don’t forget that with premium (and luxury) lines, there’s also significantly better “quality” in everything from food to service to cabin amenities to crew and space to passenger ratios.