Captain_Morgan

2 minutes ago, hampshirelad said:

On all the big cruise lines the default passenger is now "Free Drinks inside Cabin "  Get up at mid day and drink till midnight. Its has been a race to the bottom for the last 10 years. I am surprise that Britannia is not dispensing "Lip Filler " in the Spa !!

Looking at the previous post the seven day holiday is the default for our North American friends who tend to take less holidays than those of us in Europe. This is possibly linked to our generous social security benefits. In the USA you seem to be able to fall a long way very quickly unless you are firing on all cylinders.

Totally agree with your assessment on all fronts.  Being NA based, we like to travel outside of our borders and wherever possible away from our brethren, not because we feel indifferent but because we know there's so much more to see and learn when visiting and socializing with a wide range of people/cultures, etc.

That said, from what we've seen of the mainstream brands the concept of cruising has become so much a regular holiday choice in comparison to what it was 20 years ago.  This of course is great for a multitude of reasons, especially given the wide range of choice available; however, there is unfortunately going to be issues of all kinds whenever you group thousands of strangers together in a confined space for a prolonged duration of time with a finite amount of space for all to share, and when you add booze, bad attitudes, and general social dysfunction its going to be a recipe for disaster.

In our experience of taking cruises from Europe to NA with a stop in Canada, the Canadian process was seamless and very non intrusive which can't always be said for the US.  During one of the more recent cruises we took, our first call was into a tiny port in Newfoundland and from what we understand, the Canadian Customs agents boarded and went through the process (paperwork) with only a couple people called into see them, but the process was nowhere near as bad as entering the US where every non-US passenger has to be seen.

I've just finished reading all of the comments here and the one thing that I've not noticed (stand to be corrected) is a single comment referencing RSA (responsible service of alcohol).  Admittedly there is an assumption that alcohol was involved, which in the absence of firsthand information is probably a safe guess given most issues I've seen or been made aware of in my 20 years of cruising all had alcohol as the common denominator.

That said, i can agree that since Carnival Corp. took over there has been a steady degradation in the quality of the passengers as we've seen on Princess both sailing from North America and the UK.  Yes this is a blanket statement, but in our experiences the cost of the trip and the length/time of year were always determining factors in what demographic we'd encounter.  Sadly though, as can be seen with Carnival Cruises in the US,  the 7 day or less cruises are the money makers because they sell loads of booze, casinos are busy, and a larger number of people can afford to take 7 days or less off work, etc and when you've got ships which hold 3000+ passengers what's the easiest way to fill them??  sell them cheap and keep them turning around quickly which doesn't always mean well behaved passengers.

As for the comments made about going the route of Viking or Oceania with smaller ships and a perception of higher class, the reality is that those lines don't make the same kinds of money as P&O because they don't have all the 'extras' which when multiplied by several thousand = massive revenue generation whereas the lines mentioned rely on a higher price point with smaller passenger count.

13 hours ago, Oville said:

We were booked on a January cruise with Viking and ended up canceling due to penalties we could possibly be charged after final payment date. So my question had nothing to do with mega ships but many, many weeks later what has Viking done with these cruises.  Your response was less than comfy.😕

 

At the risk of being labeled a troll because i don't gush over all things Viking, i'd say their silence on the issue is conspicuous to say the least!!  Many will  no doubt claim that they're working hard to provide a bespoke itinerary but i'd say the reality is they're scrambling to find room in ports already being overrun by the aforementioned mega ships all the while shifting focus to the next new ship.  As someone who's sailed with Viking in the Caribbean in years past I can say its not the best option for itineraries and with Cuba off the table the remaining options aren't very promising...but at this rate it doesn't look like Viking are too concerned

18 hours ago, CCWineLover said:

 

Hmmmm......

Interesting - 2/3 of the ships have had this issue....  Didn't fully understand that.

 

So, does this "risk" now make you decide to not ever take a Viking Ocean Cruise again?  If so, what other ships are you looking at?    Does anyone know what the "risk" record is for other comparative cruise lines?  i.e.  what is the probability of an Oceania, Azamara, Celebrity cruise ship of having a debilitating issue?   I have no idea if this is truly a Viking only issue or is it prevalent in the industry.

 

Perhaps taking risk is something we travelers need to accept and go with the flow - much like taking airline flights.

If you read my post correctly you'd see i clearly stated 2/3 of the ships have had a mechanical issue, not the same issue on every one.

That said, these issues are less about my risk aversion and more about a trend which should be concerning given the relative newness of the ships in question.  Furthermore, the fact that the ships are built in the same yard as those from Princess, HAL, Carnival, etc and none of them seem to have the same frequency of issues should also raise questions.

3 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

I was on that cruise. The propulsion issue was more of an electrical issue, the same electrical issue that had effected the Star. A transformer in the electric system that powered the propulsion system blew. It ended up being published as a propulsion problem and even in some places as a propeller problem (which it specifically was not; there was no damage to the propeller) but it was at its heart an electrical problem.

 

Viking was cautious and returned us to Barcelona to do the repair. We were all invited to remain on the ship for the duration of the cruise while they made the repair or they would help us make arrangements to return home. Most people opted to stay on board.

 

We were on the cruise as well, and clearly remember sitting in the World Cafe shortly after departing Barcelona with the city lights in the distance when we felt a 'lurch' and saw the lights flicker followed by the announcement over the speakers which sent a few crew scurrying.

Not to split hairs, but by definition if a propulsion system is driven by an electric motor and said electrics have a failure does that not equate to a propulsion issue?  Not trying to put too fine a point on it, but the ship was literally limping along due to not being under full power as a result of the issue...

We too stayed onboard as it made no sense to queue up at guest services and try to arrange flights back home, over Xmas/New Years when we had full use of a hotel in close proximity to the city, all meals were covered, we could come and go as we pleased, AND we got fully reimbursed.

All of that being said, it still doesn't take away from the fact that 66% of the ships in service have suffered some form of mechanical issue inside the first year of being launched which has had an adverse effect on the itineraries...

Although nobody ever wants to miss a port or ports on ANY itinerary, safety of the vessel should always be the primary concern.

I'm not going to make a bold statement and say Viking ships are unsafe, but it can't go without mention that out of the 6 ships in service, 4 have now had technical issues resulting in either long delays (cancelled cruises) or altered itineraries, which for a still new vessel is not a good sign.

For those unaware, below is the rundown mentioned:

Viking Star - 2015 - transformer issue during first Baltic season resulting in a cancelled cruise after 5 days in

Viking Sea - 2016 - propulsion issue departing Malta 

                     2016 - propulsion issue departing Barcelona; ship returned to port and Xmas cruise cancelled

Viking Sky - 2019 - 'low oil pressure' resulting in issues with propulsion; well documented so no need for further details

Viking Jupiter - 2019 - 'electrical issue' as mentioned in this thread resulting in missed ports

Speculation as to the root cause of the issues will no doubt occur on a public forum, but referring to someone as a troll because they have a critical view of the company in question and their operation, or suggesting that moderators should ban someone because they've got a strong opinion is ridiculous.  If you want a like-minded environment where everyone agrees with your love of Viking than why not start a fan club instead of labeling anonymous strangers on a forum? 

I think you'll find there is nothing discounted about Air Canada Rouge apart from their onboard product as the price paid is the same as their mainline product.  I agree though when it comes to flying to Europe that there are better options such as Lufthansa, Swiss, Austrian, etc.

AC to Athens is likely on their 'Rouge' carrier which is to say its going to be an older plane with younger crew.  No frills, no gimmicks but of course full price....got to love how that works?!? 

In order to confirm you can check sites like seat guru dot com to confirm which plane you're likely to be on but i'm sure its an older B767

11 hours ago, KathyA said:

I wasn't as lucky as some of you.  I called Viking today.  The snippy Viking representative said "we informed you that we would let you know what your alternatives are at a later date."  I mentioned that cruisecritic members had received a full refund.  She said "Well, your cruise is over a year away, so like we told you in our email, we will let you know what your options are once we have decided.  We TOLD you to be patient."

 

I sent a followup email to tellus@viking.com.  I'm hoping for a better outcome.  I've been on both ocean and river cruises with Viking, so it's not like this is my first cruise with them.

 

Definitely not happy with their customer service.

They're no doubt being inundated with calls of concern, which is to be expected and understandable as even a year out people want to know what's going on so they can make the appropriate choices.  To have someone supposedly in customer service be snippy in response is never acceptable, but even less so in this case where its the company who've been forced to make changes and as such have the burden to inform the paying customer....seems another failing grade for the way their corporate offices handle difficult issues so far

Sadly, it will be a loss for the local agents and operators who saw an increase in revenues from the cruise passengers but then again it was short lived so its not like they had many years of business dry up in an instant...

The million dollar question remains however, WWVD (What Will Viking Do)???

11 hours ago, Pushka said:

 

I think you’ve reached the obvious conclusion. Something is amiss on Orion. Strangely we’ve not had the same kinds of stories, that I’ve read anyway, on the newer ship Jupiter.

I think a lot of it has to do with the poor itinerary planning and sending the ship to ports they've never been to, or have limited experience with.  Sure the Sun visited some of the ports in SE Asia during the inaugural world cruise, but it was all 'one and done' unlike the ports in Norway, the Baltic and the Med where I think its safe to say they know front to back.

One thing we noticed as a trend seems to be that as soon as a new ship is launched, all of the focus is on the new ship and the 'older' ships are somewhat forgotten including sending the majority of the experienced crew to the new ships.  As has been mentioned, the Star being only 5 years old looks and feels a lot more tired and worn out than the Sky which is only 18 months 'younger'.  The downside of focusing on market share versus product improvement is that the little things seem to be neglected, which when they occur with frequency become big things...

Hard to feel sympathetic for any of these companies who are claiming losses, especially the likes of Carnival who despite openly polluting the oceans were given a slap on the wrist again...

Add to the fact that the big brands will just absorb the losses and raise prices elsewhere i'm sure it will all be forgotten soon enough especially given the Cuba visits were short lived to begin with

We tendered in Ketchikan several years ago while on a Princess cruise, and apart from the fact that there was a very rigidly followed speed limit in the harbor (which was communicated to all) we had less than zero issues and this was on a ship twice the capacity of Viking.  The fact that Viking were only running 1 tender says to me that the operation prioritized the included tours and no doubt guessed that one tender running a relatively short distance would get them ashore in a timely manner at the expense of course of everyone else which didn't seem to matter much to them.  

In the handful of Viking cruises we've taken we've never seen less than 2 tenders in operation with 3 on relatively longer rides so again, this tells me that the shipboard management really dropped the ball on all fronts but of course would never admit or accept this...

Although not a crisis, the first thing taught by any crisis management (or similar) course is to keep people informed and calm as even though they know things aren't going well or to plan its nice to know the score and to know those in control are actually in control.  Perhaps Viking should invest in more communication courses for their managers instead of all the marketing and commercials. 

Ironic you should mention 'fanboys' as well when speaking of those passengers you met from Princess as from what I've seen of this board the vast majority here fit that category and are quick to get their hackles up if anything resembling something but a rose-tinted glasses view is said....

Also as a data point, i thought it interesting that you mentioned having to be sat upon hard, uncomfortable chairs for a prolonged duration as i'm pretty sure I said that is exactly what was going to happen in the thread you raised about the debacle that is/was Vancouver embarkation, but of course the aforementioned fanboys all said I had no clue what i was talking about as God forbid their beloved Viking leave people in the 'mushroom patch' 🙄

5 hours ago, CCWineLover said:

 

We heard explicitly from Viking last month (via our captain on the Jupiter) that the Star is going in for scheduled dry dock after 5 years service in 2019.   However, since no Viking ocean ships have ever gone into dry dock for this 5 year "update", I'm not understanding how the approach is to put lipstick on a pig, since it hasn't yet been done.   Are you referring to other cruise lines?  If so, do we know which cruise lines do this?  Might be worth it to avoid them....

If anyone on CC has worked with Cruise Ships, is this indeed the common approach?

 

Perhaps someone on the Star cruise that is first out after dry dock will be able to report to us how it went.

Looking at the Star Roll calls in order, it strikes me that there is a large gap from Nov 14, 2019 sailing (an 8 day cruise finishing Nov 22) to the next one on Dec 13, 2019 (another 8 day cruise).  So that is 3 weeks of no cruises.  Perhaps this is when the dry dock will occur, making the Dec 13 Rome to Athens cruise the first one out of dry dock.

To use the adage of putting lipstick on a pig is one thing, but to forget to mention despite the makeup its still a pig is another 🤣

Joking aside, our experience with other lines (Princess, HAL, Seabourn) has been that the vast majority of ships which go in for a dry dock, whether it be on a 5 yearly schedule or sooner, often times come out with new 'hair and makeup' as it were which of course is what we see.  That's not to say its the only thing being done, but its a lot easier and cheaper to make cosmetic changes while the ship is out of service than it is to make wholesale technical changes.  Add to the fact that this is going to be the first dry dock for Viking so they will no doubt be flying blind a little as if recent experiences have shown anything, they don't seem to have much ability to organize itineraries, nevermind large scale ship overhauls so i'd think they'll need every minute of those mystery 3 weeks you refer to as being possible dry dock days...

We were on the Star in year 2 and she was looking very 'tired' even then so I can just imagine what she looks like now given the wear and tear expected over that length of time.  Shocking to hear they were replacing carpet in the hallways after 10pm as we've always seen large maintenance jobs being done during the day, often times in ports where the majority of people are ashore (i.e. St Petersburg, Civitavecchia, Warnemunde, etc) but perhaps the powers that be thought that replacing carpet was a 'quiet' job?!?  Either way, its often times the response to issues that is how companies and their management are measured and it sounds like this was not handled as well as it should have been....

Unfortunately, comparing the river and ocean vessels is like comparing apples and oranges.  The river boats are built in a small yard in Germany whereas the ocean ships are built by Fincantieri in Italy which has a number of large yards all around the country.  In a nutshell i think the easiest and most basic comparison would be like comparing a Mercedes and a Fiat...

We have heard from a number of friends and acquaintances with intimate knowledge of the situation and they've said that the Star is due for a dry dock later this year so hopefully they will address the majority of the issues; however, we're also told that common approach to these things is to just apply a new coat of 'lipstick and mascara' as opposed to doing any wholesale changes due mostly to the fact that changing fixtures and finishings is much cheaper and less time consuming than long term fixes.

Was discussing this issue with friends who were planning a trip with Virgin Voyages (who have spent a lot of time and effort marketing their cruises to Cuba) and they said they've already received confirmation of a change in itinerary and their ship isn't even in service yet!!

They also said there was mention in their recent press release for their newly appointed Captain which was issued 1 week ago!  Here is the excerpt below:

New Voyage Offerings 
In response to the U.S. government's new restrictions on travel to Cuba from the United States, Virgin Voyages has also developed an exciting lineup of new itineraries...

Virgin Voyages will now offer five-night Riviera Maya sailings to Cozumel/Playa Del Carmen, Mexico. 

For those who just want a quick getaway, Virgin Voyages' four-night sailings will now become Fire and Sunset Soirées including a sunset departure from Key West and a midnight departure from Bimini. 

Not our first (or second) choice for destinations but it just shows that if a company has their act together they can make things happen and get that information out to their passengers

31 minutes ago, Pushka said:

My husband could have written this! He feels exactly the same as you do. I won’t be able to get him on a Viking Ocean Cruise again. It means we will be canceling one we’d already booked but that’s what we have to do.  

Sounds like a sensible guy 😁!!  But in all seriousness, the fact that Viking wants a considerable amount of money up front, and then leaves people in the lurch is really disappointing.  If i were paying a few hundred dollars for a cruise i'd not expect much in the way of being looked after should itineraries change, etc but when its a few thousand its a whole different story!

As has been said time and again, you can pay a fraction of the cost on other lines or even a little more and be treated better when it comes to planning and organization, so ultimately for the individual i guess it comes back to how much they value the itineraries (which are becoming more and more average) and lack of kids, casinos, etc versus being ignored and given empty apologies instead of answers?!?

11 hours ago, Peekskill said:

I contacted Viking right after the ban was implemented in April. Their website had already changed the itinerary so that the 4 nights in Cuba were now "TBD."  While they responded to my ongoing inquiries, only today  (June 17) did we get a direct message indicating that they were seeking an exception to the new US rule. Since Cuba closed its ports in response to the ban, that would have to be dealt with as well.

 

Other cruise lines announced that they would give credits to people who decided to accept the changed itineraries for their bookings or, if they were not happy with the changes, get a full refund.  Lines other than Viking reacted promptly and clearly. Vikings response so far has been unsatisfactory.

I wish i could say i was surprised but as has been said it seems the M.O. of Viking head office to approach these issues with arrogance and hubris, giving the impression that they're somehow beyond the rules that govern the industry.  I appreciate the fact they want to come across as having a bespoke product onboard when it comes to no kids, casinos, photographers, formal nights, etc. but when things go sideways such as this and the Vancouver debacle, the way its handled and communicated to people is what counts as no amount of free wifi or tours is going to change the fact that their communication and planning is really abysmal.

If the likes of the mainstream lines can just suck it up and make a decision, even though its not ideal why is the supposed 'World's Best Cruise Line' sucking wind and irritating passengers who are paying a premium just to be ignored and treated like fools?

Suffice it to say, the corporate side of this operation is really letting them down and i'm sure in time it will come back to bite them...

as i said much earlier in the thread, "ref. the 'maiden voyage' being offered, i'm almost certain this will be on what is referred to as the 'shakedown cruise' which is what Jupiter was on when it struck the pier in Athens.  think of it like a dress rehearsal where 'friends and family', select media types, and corporate get a sneak peek at the product before the full revenue cruise begins."

which would explain why full revenue cabins are being sold to the public as the 'free' cruise offered will not be a revenue voyage as it would make zero business sense to displace that many full fare paying passengers.  my guess would be a cruise from Venice to Rome perhaps or even Rome to Barcelona?

1 minute ago, geospyder said:

 I've read about the water rationing and the bugs but that's part of the adventure.  Can't be any worse than the MSC experience we had from South Africa in April.  We had a loose group of six couples and when asked if anyone would do MSC again it was a resounding "NO!" - unless there was a very interesting itinerary .   No mobility problems.   I'm 75 and my wife is only 70.  We enjoy the outdoors doing a lot of day hikes.  In three days we will be going camping for a couple days.  We still tent camp hauling all our gear in the back of a 2 door Jeep Rubicon.

Water rations were more an issue than the bugs between those issues, but even thats manageable if proper planning on all sides is observed.

Sounds like you'll be fine with the mobility side, which is good given the tender ports and having to traverse over and through local vessels, uneven surfaces, loading and unloading of small local boats, steep gangways, etc.  Not to mention the stop in Belem which was more akin to tendering into a local bus stop than a tender landing which many passed comment on, as well as the guests who went flying (literally) from their (plastic) lawn chairs on the local tenders when the vessel rolled a bit.

42 minutes ago, geospyder said:

 

Number two Viking is coming up in six months.  We are doing a 21 day on the Viking Sea that will spend New Years in Manaus, Brazil, up the Amazon.  Twenty one days might sound long but we just got back from a 42 day trip.

We did this trip last winter on the Sea and although it was an interesting experience, there were a lot of hiccups and a whole lot more 'over promising' and 'under delivering' as it went with the tours especially.  

I can say absolutely that if there's any mobility issues with you or your travel companions, this is going to be a tough trip with getting on/off the ship and through the pier locations which I'm more than happy to elaborate on if required

11 hours ago, Pushka said:

I tried multiple times in the months build up to the cruise to get an official response to the number of tenders. It was my shore excursion provider and not Viking who told me of the tender issue in one port, Skagway. Viking didn’t mention this even after I queried them directly. 

 

And had to laugh at the CD port presentation of Sitka stating it was happening tomorrow when it reality it was Skagway. Because of our embarkation they couldn’t fit that talk in at all. 

 

We did the ships excursion in Seward on the first day. There were 3 groups all going on the one ship, Kenai area. They called group 1 down then the second and the third. However the buses they booked to take us to that docking area were filled with just the first group so we were left standing around on the dock where all the buses were coming and going. The port people asked us what we were doing there and we said Viking had called us down. She said it was really dangerous us being there with all the traffic but by this time all the Viking reps had gone. And by this time another bolus of passengers arrived from Viking. She said she’d never seen such disorganisation by Viking. We just shrugged. 

And sadly this is the issue with the cruise industry in general in my experience....once you've paid your way, the company has little to no interest in doing anything of substance to make wholesale changes to improve the 'minor' issues, or what they consider 'minor' because they know the majority of people either wont say anything or just accept it as part of the process.

If a cruise line is doing a brand new itinerary you'd expect them to have some hiccups, but you'd also expect them to have sent someone or a team of people ahead to scout the locations, meet with the tour operators, sort the logistics, etc. to at the very least minimize the 'minor' issues and that way they could better communicate to their guests when these things come up.

We were on the Sea over the winter and had a similar issue to you with the loading/unloading of luggage from our side of the ship.  Unfortunately due to the logistics involved (many people arrived very late on Viking organized flights) it meant luggage loading went very late into the night, and then when we arrived back in San Juan the unloading started at silly o'clock in the morning.  

At the end of the day, the only way that any company big or small eventually gets the message that their customer base is unhappy is when people speak with their wallets.  Complaining to someone onboard a ship (in this case) who has no actual power or ability to change the issue is futile as all they will do is include the concern in an email to the office which will no doubt be ignored, or minimized.  At least when you pay for the likes of Carnival, NCL, etc. and get that 'bargain basement' price you know what to expect, whereas when paying a premium for Viking you shouldn't be literally told to wait in traffic...

8 hours ago, Oville said:

Seriously, at least the “mass market brands” have a plan.  We have heard nothing from Viking regarding our January “Cultural Cuban” Cruise.  It is disgraceful and Viking should be ashamed.  An email at least should have been sent to everyone impacted, disgraceful.

 

 

Careful not to upset the apple cart too much as you're likely to get backlash for being 'negative' despite having a completely valid point and concern.

As has been said time and time again, Viking's inability to communicate seems to be a recurring theme which might sit fine with the die-hard fans who think they can do no wrong, but for those people who look at the principle of things and are left to feel ignored it most definitely leaves a bitter taste.

I agree that at the very least a simple email advising those affected even 6 months out that due to recent changes in US Gov't policy, bla bla bla, would be so much better than just being ignored....

What is it that you like about Crystal, Oceania and Azamara?  Of my knowledge of those lines, in comparison to my experience on Viking i can say that Viking is probably more similar to Oceania in that the atmosphere is more relaxed (no formal nights, no pomp and circumstance) without the same focus on the cuisine.

Viking's ships are what I would describe as understated elegance in that they are nicely decorated with plenty of comfortable places to sit and just enjoy the atmosphere without feeling as though you're being herded from one attraction to the next.  The focus onboard is towards information sharing (ironic given the complete lack of information coming from their office on all things) by way of lectures and port talks which may or may not be your thing and of course these are also itinerary specific/dependent.  

Entertainment IMO is mediocre at best when it comes to the actual performances onboard in comparison to the larger production shows found on the mainstream line.  

The semi-inclusive nature of the product is nice too in comparison to other lines but keep in mind the included tours fill up fastest and more often than not they're a 'panoramic tour' which basically means a bus ride with a brief interlude to shop or look around but that's not always the case.  Of course its not the case with all included tours, but the bottom line is that you can't expect anything too spectacular for a tour you didn't pay extra for.  WiFi being included is a nice bonus as well provided you're not expecting to use it for more than checking emails, updating social media, etc.

As for the 'usual Viking experience', i think this is a case of the line experiencing what i call the 'Icarus Principle' where they seem to have been flying a little too close to the sun and now their wings might be melting a little.  Instead of perfecting the product on the first 2 or 3 ships, it seems the focus of getting more market share and brand recognition has taken precedence over consistency.