RobInMN

ok. That helps. Ship tours are always more expensive. Sometimes it's worth it, especially on tendering ports. Ship tours have priority on the tenders. Then you have the guarentee to return to ship. If the ship's tour does what I want, sometimes it's just easier than finding an independent one. The other issue I have had with ship tours is the "free time for shopping and the blatant shopping kick back tour guides must get for pushing specific shops. The worst experience we've had was a Capri, Sorento, and Pompeii tour back in 2018. I feel like you don't get this with independent tours. While we are on similar itineraries, they are not identical. #1 Ephesus. We booked an independent one via TripAdvisor (Viator). They seemed to be highly recommended on many other roll calls, so I booked them. I see your tour has a Turkish lunch and a carpet demonstration. I don't care about that. I imagine that there is a nearly identical ship tour to the one we booked, as there is for our sailing. The main difference being that the independent one adds the Terrace Houses, which you do not get with the ship tour. The tour is cheaper than the nearly identical ship one, and a max of 10 people. https://www.tripadvisor.com/AttractionProductReview-g297972-d11462366-EPHESUS_4_to_6_Hours_Private_Tours_ENTRANCE_FEES_are_INCLUDED-Kusadasi_Turkish_Aeg.html #2 Crete. We didn't book anything. This is our last port stop (on a 12 night), and nothing really caught our eye #4 Santorini. For us, this is a tender port. I also was not finding anything better than the ship's tour, so we went with the ship tour. We chose Akrotiri Ruins and Oia Village as opposed to Oia and Fira town. #5 Athens. We went with an independent tour here. It's not necessarily a small group. Could be anywhere from 20-50? (one place says "Standard" group size, another place says "small group"). But it is a 7.5 hour tour that does as much as we can fit in and only does stuff we are interested in. This one I also ran across by looking at other roll calls and appears to have great reviews. https://www.shoreexcursionsgroup.com/tour/athens-introduction-with-acropolis-and-museum/euatintro Was there a #3?

Not exactly sure which direction you are going with your question. Looking for recommendations that would be enjoyable for a 9 year old? These specific tours vs. other ship tours? or ship tours vs. independent? We are going on Greece & Turkey (formerly Holy Land) in October. We are doing ships tours at 2 ports, independent at 5. and nothing at 1.

@orville99 was reporting what was said at the captain's corner on their cruise. Not sure which ship/captain reported it. I am also surprised it will be that small. I would have bet a minimum of 120K

In 2019, we did Ama's Rivers and Castles, from Nuremburg to Luxemburg. Unfortunately, some barge hit a sandbar somewhere which delayed river traffic until it was cleared. So we entered the Rhine Gorge a few hours late and it got too dark to see after not too long and we missed a lot of it. I highly recommend this one, the ports were great (Cathedrals, Castles, Forts, and Ruins 🙂 ). Hits Main Danube Canal, Main, Rhine, and Moselle. We have Basel to Amsterdam booked next spring (also Ama) with our daughter and her fiancé. This will take us down the Rhine Gorge again. For us, this will complete the entire Amsterdam to the Black Sea! We are doing the 2 night Zurich, 2 night Lake Lucerne before, and will spend a couple days on our own in Amsterdam after. We are only doing the 7 night. There are longer ones that go up the Moselle and back before continuing, but my daughter is limited on vacation time. With the pre & post, we are already at 2 weeks.

Odyssey has Chromecast, but we bring a firestick. There's a number of threads on here, but here's one that is specific to Odyssey:

I'm not into ice skating shows typically. I respect their talents, but it's just usually not my thing. That said, I have found 1977 entertaining. I thought the story line was descent (sure beats Effectors - What story) and liked how the projection/video mapping onto the ice surface enhanced the story. The drones were fun also.

Interesting. I had not run across any references to relaxing the ship size. Good to know. Yes, this has been brought up before also. Even if you ignore the height issue, Voyager, Freedom, and Quantum classes still wouldn't be able to go through due to how the life boats (and in some cases the actual davits themselves) stick out beyond the hull line. I wasn't sure the actual height. On Radiance and NCL's Bliss, the lifeboats are fully contained within the hull lines. So I think any new class will also have lifeboats that are fully within the hull lines like Radiance is. Moving on to another design feature, I also believe that there is a good chance it will have self-contained tendering abilities like the Radiance class does. I do think it's pretty cool how that works. Would need to increase capacity though. Maybe operate 2 platforms with 4 tenders?

Let's keep it to this thread: At this point we can only speculate. There has been nothing official form RCL other than they finally announced that it will be an Amplification. All we know of potential plans is what was originally planned: https://www.royalcaribbeanpresscenter.com/press-release/1403/new-amplified-adventures-on-royal-caribbeans-allure-of-the-seas-to-make-a-summer-splash-in-europe/ It's a 6-week dry dock from end of February to beginning of April. When the original Amplification was cancelled, she was only about 5 weeks away from dry dock. One would have to imagine that a lot of the custom built stuff was already in warehouses nearby in Cadiz. Anything RCL couldn't immediately sell or repurpose (like TVs?) is likely still there (like the giant purple slide). When we were on Allure last September, the hotel director at the loyalty event said that Sabor and Champagne bar were going away. That matches the original plan, which originally would have been Portside BBQ and Robotic Bar (we can hope for a Pesky Parrot). The original plan had a Playmakers, and no Wonderland. The speculation is that if they keep it that way, that it will replace the Crown(Diamond) lounge. It's almost a guarantee that the Crown lounge will be relegated to the windowless deck 4. We were originally booked on the post-Amplification TA in 2020. We booked the WB TA next October the day the itinerary was released. Again, let's try to keep comments, replied in the other thread.

The Inside Passage itself? or access to Vancouver? I have not heard/read of any size limitations with the Inside Passage itself. For Vancouver, access is limited by the Lion's Gate Bridge, which has a clearance of 200'. Other bridges of note: Francis Scott Key bridge (Baltimore) was 185'. Chesapeake Bay Bridge is 186'. (so a new FSK bridge having more clearance doesn't help). Sunshine Skyway Bridge (Tampa) is 180' (can be higher based on tide??) I would image that these 3 bridges (plus the Bridge of the Americas) will be the factors that limit the height of a Discovery Class.

Radiance is a Panamax ship, which is a designation for the original locks. Specifications: 950' long, 106' beam (width), 190' air draft (above water line), 39.5' draft (below water line). The new locks are referred to as "NeoPanamax". That is: 1200' 9" long, 160' 9" beam, 190' air draft, 50' draft. NCL's Bliss is the largest cruise ship to traverse the Panama Canal (new locks). For reference: Bliss is 168K tons, 1094' long with a 136' beam and carries ~4000 passengers. Air draft might be about 190'? Radiance is 90K tons, 961' long, 105' beam, 2500 passengers. 172' air draft. Voyager is 137 tons, 1020', 126' beam, 4000 maximum passengers. 208' air draft. Freedom is 1111' long, same beam as Voyager. You can go wider (more than 50% wider), as well as longer (another 250'). The only thing you can't do is go much higher (only ~18'). So you could start with a hull about the size of Voyager or Freedom (or even larger), but with a shorter air draft and still be able to traverse the Panama Canal. See my post:

Oh, now you've done it. Waiting for @billaraneta to ask if it will sail Asia. 🤣

Yep. Our local news made it sound like MSP (big Delta hub) was more or less at a stand still for a couple hours. The local paper's article said that as of 9:30/9:45, Flight Aware was reporting more than 2770 flights world wide cancelled, 1630 in the US. Delta 519. At our airport 70 Delta, and 115 total. Flight Aware also said 27,000 flights delayed. I imagine it could take a couple days for the airlines to recover. It's impacted hospitals. Surgeries cancelled. The company I work for was impacted. Basically shut down our factories. Not sure if they are back up and running yet or not. I work remote, and not really in the loop.

We'll be getting off as you get on. If my wife had more vacation time, I think we would have stayed on. 🙂

We have not taken our DD (currently 24) on any European Ocean cruises (yet), but she's been on a river cruise, and we are taking her on another one next year. She enjoys all cruises, and seems to have fun regardless of where we are, ocean or river. Maybe because it's "free" 🙂 We did a 12 night Arctic Circle on Jewel in 2022. We did the Western Med on Symphony in 2018 from Civitavecchia. We are doing Greece & Turkey (originally Holy Land) on Odyssey this fall. I agree with @Iamthesea, I have not experienced any language issues in any airport or port or even heavily touristy cities. I wouldn't make that a consideration. All of these are (or can be) long port days. The ship is honestly only really important on sea days. On port days, by the time you get back, you will want to eat and crash. So I would focus less on the ship, and more about what your kids might be interested in. Even though the Greek ports are closer, there's still so much to see you can still have long tours. Tours I have booked for our Greece & Turkey cruise: 6 hours, 6, 7, 7:30, 7:30, & 9:30! My wife will tell you that there is no "fun relaxing" activities on European vacations with me. Things I would take into consideration: Norway is absolutely stunning! It's far more landscape than architecture/ruins. Obviously the Mediterranean has lots of history. I am all about "Cathedrals, Castles, Forts and Ruins", and love this sort of stuff, so if that's more appealing to your kids, maybe this is the way to go. Allure is getting Amplified next spring if that matters. Can't go wrong with a pre-cruise in London. Cant go wrong with a pre-cruise in Rome. We spent a week in Rome before our Western Med, and will spend 3 days pre-cruise this fall. Barcelona vs. Civitavecchia on Western Med. In my mind, there are 2 main decision points: Which city do you want to see pre-cruise? Which city do you wan to do "in a day"? For me, that's easy. I love Rome, and a week was not nearly enough for me. And Barcelona "in a day" was plenty for me. For other people, it's the opposite. There's a few threads on here discussing these options. For some people, they point out that Barcelona has much easier port access. While I think that's a good point if you are flying in the day before, if you are spending days pre-cruise, I don't think that matters. Cruise length? Western Mediterranean would be a 7 night. Our Odyssey is 12 night. Not sure what the Fjords cruise length is. Longer is better 🙂 Sorry I don't have any insight into dietary concerns. You are already familiar with how good they are on the ship. I have no idea what your experience will be in any ports. I believe you can take off pre-packaged foods if you can stock up on known items. In the end, I bet they'd love any of these options.

Those Panamax specifications are not "Quantum's", those are the published Panamax specifications for the canal. Otherwise, how would you explain the fact that Quantum has 2 heights, one of which is "case by case"?? https://pancanal.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/N01-2022.pdf As for the UWC, read the RCB article. Michael Bayley is quoted as saying: "My team thinks it sucks," Michael Bayley joked, "because it's been extremely complicated and massively expensive." However, that is immediately followed by: Mr. Bayley said the management team had to debate the idea of another one. However, despite initial hesitation, Royal Caribbean will do another Ultimate World Cruise. "The question is when?" Mr. Bayley continued. "We don't know when that is."

More balcony's but ship size also plays a part. If you read the RCB article, it was implied that only a new class ship could meet what they would want. Yes, technically it might be able to fit, but as having been discussed previously there's more to it than length, beam, and air draft. It's been explained (by @chengkp75 I believe) that the only way you could take a Quantum class ship though the Panama Canal, even the new locks, is if you first removed the life boat davits as they hang over the hull lines. In order to go through the Panama Canal, you can not have anything hanging out over the hull line below some height above the water (don't recall the height). On Radiance, the life boats are all "self contained" within the hull. None of RC's ships larger than Radiance meet that criteria. On Voyager, the davits are, but the boats stick out part way. On Quantum, the davits themselves stick out. Oasis has a whole cantilevered decks starting with the promenade deck. NCL's Bliss has self-contained within the hull lines life boats. I use Bliss as it is the largest cruise ship to go through the whole canal.

Smaller does not necessarily mean "small". No one's ever said "Small", only "smaller" as in "Smaller than Oasis/Icon". But there are some size limitations that are good guesses. Neopanamax for length/beam. Nothing sticking out over the hull lines below the bridge. And the air draft limited to 190-200' for bridge clearance to ports they want to service. That could very well mean a passenger count of 4000 (like NCL's Bliss), but I think they'll keep it under 3000. There is a growing concern from some popular ports about ship size (as in passenger count), and limitations of 2500 or less may be a consideration.

I can't find it right now, but I swear someone reported that the Captain of the Radiance mentioned Radiance as a size reference at a recent Q&A. Personally, I believe it will be closer to Voyager rather than Radiance in length, probably wider than Voyager (like NCL's Bliss), but not much taller than Radiance.

Captains: RC is working on Project Discovery. It will be a smaller ship CC: RC will never do smaller ships again. Captains: Project Discovery will be about Voyager size CC: RC will only ever go bigger! Michael Bayley: We hope to make an announcement about Project Discovery this year (2024) CC: Project Discovery is dead, never happen Captains: Project Discovery may be closer to Radiance class size CC: RC will only do mega ships and will only go to their own private islands and places where they build a beach club. MB: We will do another UWC, just a question of when, and we need a new ship class CC: RC will never do another UWC and only build bigger ships, and only need to do Cariibean ports with them.

"Norway" can do Quantum class, but not the main draw fjords, and you are not doing Arctic Circle on a Quantum. And even without the environmental limitations, I doubt they'd be allowed to go to Flam or Geiranger. Starting next year, it will take a new class of ship before RC will be able to back to either of those ports anyway. I'm not totally sure if LNG even counts. Also, the Radiance class barely fits in Honningsvag, the pier is about 1/3rd the length of the ship as it is. 🙂 Mediterranean or Caribbean or even elsewhere (like when RC was dong the Baltic), the different class ships may operate in the same area, but don't necessarily hit the same ports. Even the Voyager class ships hit ports that the Quantum class doesn't. Could be due to physical size, could be due to passenger count.

RCB had a recent article about the UWC and what Michael Bayley had to say about it. Link is is this thread: (Not posting the link here again, as it will make the post need approval, which can take hours) Anyway, even though: "My team thinks it sucks," Michael Bayley joked, "because it's been extremely complicated and massively expensive." He said it will happen, just a question of when and what ship class (hinting at Project Discovery as the option): Mr. Bayley said the management team had to debate the idea of another one. However, despite initial hesitation, Royal Caribbean will do another Ultimate World Cruise. "The question is when?" Mr. Bayley continued. "We don't know when that is." Another challenge the World Cruise has presented is that the cruise needs to take place on a different ship, Mr. Bayley says. "The ship that we picked is a great ship, but we need a ship with more outside staterooms."

Read the RCB post I linked to. Michael Bayley has said that they will do another UWC, but they need a ship with more balconies. But also, a Voyager class ship is too big for most of the ports such a cruise would hit. MB implied Project Discovery may be that ship. For the Caribbean, what you describe is definitely at least half of their future. Mega ships, mostly private ports or ports with private beach clubs. Without a new smaller class, that may be it. But it's not just all about the Caribbean. RCI operates in a number of places around the world that without a replacement class for the aging smaller classes (Including Voyager), they would need to abandon entirely. That does not make financial sense either. In the Caribbean, if they want another port they can bring 3-5 mega ships to per week, RCI can put up the money and work with the country to build an appropriate pier, and they might also build a beach club too. In many of the other areas of the globe that they operate, you are not going to do that for 1 or 2 ships every week or two over the coarse of only 5-6 months. And if they are going to do another UWC, they are not going to do that to 150 ports that they might visit once every 5 years.

Should not be possible, nor should it ever have been. The only report like this I recall seeing is that some people have reported iMessenger working without WiFi, but that loophole having been closed since.

Was in Ames, Iowa and went to Reiman Gardens where they had one of these: Not sure it's real name, but I'll go with "Kaleidoscope Planter". Some of my results: The main reason for going: Some other pics:

The Bridge of the Americas on the Panama Canal has the same height issues that we see for bridges in other ports. The Norwegian Bliss is the largest cruise ship to traverse the Panama Canal, but she had to go under Bridge of the Americas at low tide. I believe this is also the case for the Lions Gate Bridge in Vancouver. Clearance 200'. The Neopanamax specifications are: 1200' 9" long, 160' 9" beam, 190' air draft (above water line), 50' draft (below water line). Note that there are other limiting factors that would prevent a Voyager/Freedom or even Oasis class ship from using the Panama Cancel even if height wasn't an issue. For one, the life boats have to be internal to the hull line and cannot stick out over. I believe that Neopanamax will be the maximum dimensions of Project Discovery. Could be smaller, not not bigger. Height may be limited further by bridges in other ports they want to service. I believe it will meet all Panama Canal specifications. For reference: Bliss is 168K tons, 1094' long with a 136' beam and carries ~4000 passengers. Air draft might be about 190'? Radiance is 90K tons, 961' long, 105' beam, 2500 passengers. 172' air draft. Voyager is 137 tons, 1020', 126' beam, 4000 maximum passengers. 208' air draft. So, a larger, wider ship can have more passengers and more tonnage while still limiting the air draft. RCB's article about Michael Bayley's comments on the Ultimate World Cruise seems to indicate that the next UWC might target a Project Discovery ship as it will be able to maximize the number of balcony cabins over the existing Radiance class. https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2024/07/12/royal-caribbean-will-do-another-world-cruise And while previous comments from captains Q&A's have mentioned Voyager class, it appears that more recent comments have shifted more towards Radiance class size. I think it's safe to say it will be between these 2 classes. I am convinced that it will be LNG, like Utopia and Icon. and probably a maximum of 3000 passengers as there is a growing push back from some popular ports on ship size. I also think it will have self-contained tendering abilities like the Radiance class has.