TigerB

As @Plugtheleak writes, it is two weeks before; however it is not always exactly two weeks. Sometimes it may be fifteen days for dining, often just after midnight. The entertainment bookings, which may include the Limelight Club, are released the day before dining.

Well, we've just been forced to cancel our cruise next November. We were booked into a partially accessible inside cabin on Iona, which, as I have previously stated, has been perfectly suitable for our lass and her power chair on four previous cruises. I have posted about our experience on another thread. I won't repeat that post here, but if you are at all interested to read it, this is the link... https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2997550-new-rules-for-wheelchair-users/page/6/#comment-67902170 Needless to say, we are not happy!🤬

Well, we've just been forced to cancel our cruise next November. We were booked into a partially accessible inside cabin on Iona, which, as I have written on another thread, has been perfectly suitable for our lass and her power chair on four previous cruises. The expected call came on Wednesday. I asked if she was responding to my (heated) email or if she was one of the agents tasked with calling guests to give them bad news. It was the latter. I asked her just why the policy had changed; "It's a health and safety issue; in case of an evacuation or an incident with the mobility device, crew need to be able to get into the cabin and find it easily. Some cabins have pillars in them. I think the cabin you have may be too small for them to do that". Well, that was a red rag to a bull !! I tell her we have stayed in a fully accessible balcony cabin previously, and that have a pillar in it. I tell her that we have stayed in a partially adapted inside cabin on four previous cruises, and my wife has been able to move around in her power chair just fine. I tell her that, when we are in bed the chair is stored in the hallway area. I tell her that the hallway area inside a partially accessible cabin is exactly the same dimensions as in a fully accessible cabin; it is only when you enter the bedroom area that the floorspace is bigger in the fully accessible cabins. "So, it makes no difference whether we are in a partially accessible cabin or a fully accessible cabin, a crew member just needs to enter the cabin and the chair is right there in front of them". She said she understood what I was explaining, but it was a company wide policy change. "Sorry", I said, cutting her off; "I know you don't have the answers, and are just repeating what you've been told, but this whole situation is ill thought out and penalises disabled passengers who need an accessible cabin." I went on to say that some users of mobility scooters don't necessarily need an accessible cabin, and by forcing them into one prevents a disabled person that needs all the adaptations from booking one. She agreed, and went back to the 'new company policy' line. To be fair to her, she was tasked with a difficult job, hadn't been given the full story, and had a script to stick to. "So, what are our options"? She said they were these: (1) Change to a more suitable cabin, (2) Change the wheelchair to a manual one, (3) Transfer to another cruise outside the standard T&C's, (4) Cancel for a full refund outside the standard T&C's. "I have checked for fully accessible cabins on your cruise, and there are none available; sorry". "I knew you would say that". "Can your wife bring on a manual wheelchair"? Another red rag! We had pulled over in the car to take the call and it was on speaker. I feel certain that the CSA would have heard the response from the fish-wife Hull lass that my our lass can turn into when hearing such a stupid question! My explanation used less f-words! I told her that she last used a manual chair eleven years ago, and using a power chair gives her a great deal more independence; P&O, in forcing her to then change back to a manual wheelchair, strips her of that independence. I also told her that, ironically, the manual chair we have in the garage is bigger than her power chair and she wouldn't be able to manoeuvre it in a partially accessible cabin. "I'm sorry, that just leaves us with the options of transferring your cruise, or refunding you". "When do you need a decision"? "As soon as possible, and before the 17th". I asked her to call back on Friday, today. We didn't bother looking for another cruise. We have one booked for next October, which our lass really wants to go on. Luckily, it's in a fully accessible cabin. She said, that after that cruise she's finished with P&O.

Thanks for that information, @sandancer. So, in essence, P&O have known for almost six months, or more, that they would be bringing in this change. Long enough to give guests sufficient notice, and be able to explain the full reasons why it is being implemented. Instead though, they announce it just shy of the implementation date, without proper explanation and, in some cases, cancel some passengers' cruises with just a few days notice. What a class act there are!🙄

That forms part of the policy from 2020, mentioned in post #102, in that mobility scooters should be stored in the cabin; it appears P&O are, as @9265359 writes in that post, now enforcing that policy to the letter. The trouble is, they are now including power wheelchairs in the same category as mobility scooters, and using a 'one size fits all' approach when, as I have alluded to in previous posts, one size doesn't fit all.

No, as has already been stated by @Selbourne, they are not just enforcing a policy of four years ago, they have changed the policy to now include power chairs. Anyway, the policy states 'accessible cabin'; it does not differentiate between a partially accessible cabin and a fully accessible one. The former being wholly suitable for our lass's power chair, before P&O decided it wasn't.

As @Gettingwarmer writes, on Arvia the only MDR with tablecloths is Zenith. I think the bean counters may have thought that making Meridian resemble a 'Spoons would be more appealing to some of the guests.😉

After reading your post, I have just watched that segment. I note that P&O cannot even fully explain to the BBC why this policy has been brought in now, just the stock answer that it's due to a change in regulations. 🙄

@GOLDSURFER, what is this maritime law change you write about? There is no change in any law regarding accessibility; it is just P&O changing a policy about what type of mobility devices can be stored in certain cabins. It may be for a valid reason, the most likely reason being that crew would have difficulty accessing the mobility device in an emergency or evacuation if it wasn't in a fully accessible cabin. Quite apart from that reason being ambiguous and open to arguments about its necessity and validity, the way in which they have communicated the change to their passengers, without a full explanation of the reasons behind it, it nothing more than calamitous, and treats us like idiotic sheep.** I get what you're writing about with your comparison of the partially accessible cabin to the fully accessible one, with the cabin doors and bathroom being exactly the same. I presume you intend to store your scooter in the hallway of the cabin of an evening; that is what we have done with our lass's power chair when we have stayed in a partially accessible cabin. My argument would be, the hallway of a partially accessible cabin is exactly the same dimensions as a fully accessible cabin. It is only once you enter the bedroom area that the floorspace is bigger in a fully accessible cabin; so, in an emergency the access to her power chair is exactly the same regardless of whether we are in a partially accessible cabin or a fully accessible cabin. Do you think then, if my argument is valid, they will make a special dispensation for us? No, they won't; I wouldn't expect them to either. So, rest assured, they won't amend the policy for you either, or anyone else in the same predicament. As @molecrochip wrote in a different thread about this subject: 'their ship, their rules'. **Disclaimer: I feel it necessary to point out that not all sheep are idiotic; Shaun certainly isn't.

You appear to have misread my post. I am well aware that the cruise to transfer from has to be a select fare. What I wrote was that I thought 'the new cruise had to be a select fare', and the written information 'makes no mention of it having to be a select fare.'

That's interesting! When I called last year to discuss our March cruise I thought the new cruise had to be a select fare, and the CSA confirmed that to be so. However, the written information above makes no mention of it having to be a select fare.

One other thing, which you will probably already know, @Presto2; you can't change to a saver fare, it has to remain as a select fare.

We did have experience of this, for a repositioning cruise in March this year. When I enquired about cancelling and changing to another cruise, I was told that it was the cruise value only, with the basic flights included, that was the figure they worked on; the premium seats we paid extra for were classed as an additional payment. In the end, we couldn't find another cruise that suited us. However, I argued that we were disadvantaged due to our flight being changed to Maleth Aero, with no PE cabin, and they refunded our deposit.

@molecrochip, thanks for that information.👍🏻 In my opinion, apart from the legal requirement that you mention, it is much better from a personal perspective to have it on the booking confirmation rather the My Cruise information. Previously, if there was a query at the port about the booking of an evacuation chair, you would have the faffing about of logging into the My Cruise section of your account in order to show one was booked. Just showing a screenshot probably wouldn't cut it, as that wouldn't show the booking number or date the chair was booked. Now, you can either show a printed copy of the complete booking confirmation, or a saved PDF copy of the same. Much less hassle.

I don't think they show on the My Cruise information any more, ours dropped off a while ago. Check your booking confirmation, it should be the first item on the itinerary page; this is one we received after booking our last cruise... If yours doesn't show that information you could perhaps ask for updated ones to be sent.

Is that the party line or just your take on why the policy has changed? If the former, then why don't they write the policy to say that only lithium powered wheelchairs will be included in the same classification as mobility scooters? The hallway area, from the cabin door to where it opens into the bedroom area, is the same in both a partially accessible cabin and a fully accessible cabin. If a lithium powered chair is stored in that hallway area, and there was a fire, the occupants would face the same problem in reaching the cabin door in both cabin types. Having a balcony to escape to is a moot point; the fully accessible outside cabins don't have balconies. As others have written, what about lithium batteries in other devices? They pose just as much risk; probably more risk given that there are many more of those on a ship than there are lithium powered wheelchairs and scooters.

@StopTheWorld, if you're referring to the itinerary on MyCruise, the information dropped off ours ages ago. However, as Moley writes in post #41, the evacuation chair is listed on the first day of the itinerary on the booking form; this is for our last booking... If yours doesn't show it you could contact P&O or your TA and ask for another one to be sent. Are you currently booked into a partially accessible cabin? We've not sailed on Arcadia so I don't know what they're like. Our experience of partially accessible cabins is only on Arvia and Iona and, as I've previously written, our lass's compact power chair is wholly suitable for such a cabin. For P&O to now say it isn't is absurd. I absolutely agree with you about there being, when a crew member enters a cabin, no difference in finding a power chair or manual chair. What do they think a guest who absolutely needs it is going to do, store it in the wardrobe?

Happy Anniversary to you and your husband, @Megabear2 ❤️ Good news on the cabin move and other compensatory items for your BiL. At least he'll be able to get some fresh air instead of suffering in an inside cabin.

Yes, I am well aware that there are many wheelchair users who are not full time users, and the same for mobility scooters. My comment is not a blind generalisation, it is based on observations. Here are just two examples from recent cruising history: January 2023 - Arvia: Guy on rented scooter leaves it near the golf nets on the Panorama deck, walks to and then skips up the nearby steps, and joins me and my sister on the sky-walk. Afterwards, he plays a round of mini golf like he's Jack Nicklaus. November 2023 - Iona: Lady in her 50s(?) on a rented scooter; we saw her quite a few times and she often had difficulty driving it. A male in his 20s/30s, her son perhaps(?) sometimes had to take over the controls for her. At the end of the cruise we saw the same couple in the disabled area of the CPS car park. She alights from the scooter and runs about forty yards to her car; he gets on the scooter and rides off on it, presumably to return it. I say it as I see it. And as I see it, with the newly implemented rules, these are two people who would now have to be in a fully accessible cabin, thus preventing a passenger with a genuine need for such a cabin being able to take a cruise.

You do right. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, others could fall foul of thinking they don't need to submit a new one, and risk being denied boarding. It's all down to very poor communication from P&O, not explaining properly just why a new submission is needed. I fear you're probably right, especially given Moley's comment about internal confusion. Many a time I have spoken with a customer service agent who cannot effectively answer my questions about accessibility issues. That is a direct result of P&O, and other operators too, getting rid of dedicated special assistant agents and expecting general CSAs to deal with potentially complex issues without proper training.

Thanks for the input, Moley.👍🏻 I thought that perhaps the change in policy may be to try and reduce the number of mobility scooters, or at least stop them being left outside cabins. After all, and at the risk of incurring the wrath of others, shouting about non-visible disabilities, there are a minority who don't need them and try and abuse the system. I've seen it, I know Selbourne has, and I'm sure others with genuinely disabled relatives have. Efforts to reduce non-essential mobility devices onboard is probably a good thing, but to include compact power chairs, like our lass uses, in the same category as mobility scooters is, in my view, an arbitrary decision, possibly made by someone without genuine experience of the needs of a severely disabled person, that will have a detrimental effect on many passengers, not least the stress caused to those passengers and their carers. Your comment about internal confusion suggests to me that it has not been properly thought out, and has been implemented without the knowledge of, or without the further training of many customer services agents, who will undoubtedly suffer the wrath of angry passengers.

Oh yes! Did your BiL actually go and investigate, MB? If he doesn't know, it's three rapid knocks, followed by a gentle single knock, then two more rapid knocks; or so I'm told by a friend! 🤭

I can save you a job. I have just checked one I submitted on 30th November 2023, and it is the same one that is in use now; the revision date is shown as November 2023. To the best of my knowledge, I was prompted to resubmit using that form because the one I had submitted a few months earlier was the old one. If Selbourne's TA advised him that he had submitted an old form, although he submitted it in November 2023, it could be that it was submitted just before the new version came into force.

Ah yes, I see that now. Having re-read his post I note that he completed one last November, so it may have been in the old format.

That is correct, the on-board questionnaire referred to has been in place for a few months, and it has not changed. However, the policy regarding mobility devices has changed. As per post #12, powered wheelchairs and mobility scooters are now classified in the same group, and users of them must now be in booked into a fully accessible cabin. The emails that some, including us, have received advises of the new policy, and requests that a questionnaire be resubmitted where applicable, indicating a change of mobility device.