Cap_D

Well said! The "worry" and instability is off putting. The lack of a clear comms and an identity is an issue for us, too. We're looking for fresh ships with what Retreat and Celebrity was (positive feeling, too) that would be child accepting (but not a thrill/ amusement park). Realize that's many on this board, but our child is a much a cruise critic as anyone, naturally.

They would never do that!

What's the TA reaction to all this? We don't use one, but at some point I presume they get fed up unless their cut is going up too. My impression is they have been promoting Celebrity well, and they'd have said it was a safe suggestion as compared to MSC or Princess, and if not looking for go karts, NCL. Meanwhile there not a lot of evidence that Celebrity could handle the volume on their own or count on as many direct leads to make up for lost TA channel traffic. Grasping for what makes Celebrity a top choice for anyone after we add up the small cuts, account for the bigger changes and price, the intentional instability in the product, decrease the number of cheerleaders? Retreat at 2k per day + gratuities + extras and excursions for a Retreat room? Assuming Retreat is 2k a day, even for comparison, if it's 1200 a night at a nice hotel, and one would use 800 a day after day, per room, for food and beverage, the total seems high to get in return an LED light show featuring a few dancers with cost spread across 1200 rooms, having to deal with asking specially for oatmeal, sausage, a good cookie, coffee (once they kill off Bacio), paying for pizza (once they make that extra), tilapia, odd cuts of beef, being solicited to buy a wine opener (true story), chair hogs, plus out of pocket expenses.

I've got an open onboard FCC, and need for a 2025 Easter trip. But, very reluctant to do anything earlier, now or weeks from now (when I guess I could reprice if there were a decrease?). I think the deposit amount would have to be increased since the reservation would be for Retreat. And, then we are locked in to whatever this becomes or gets mixed up into. This is annoying because my family is exactly the new target in terms of two working parents, child, preferences, etc. And, we prize consistency. We just aren't lemmings and have plenty in common with this community. (We didn't have designs to use the solarium) But, we know we can do just as well at Harbour Island or another Bahamas location, visit family in Florida at a nice hotel, without the drama. Ritz, Hyatt Place, or 7-11 will always have sausage. Not so sure about Celebrity (and why is that even something one would even wonder or write about on a Monday night?). Everyone always said to me or others, "Don't worry, once you're on the ship it's going to be fantastic." And it generally was. And, we also knew what it was going to cost. There was no having to whip out the wallet so to speak all the time, which is just annoying on vacation. (I would love not to touch a pen or plastic card for a few days). We knew we'd get some good food, have some options, and some good weather. Now, the same people who would have said don't worry, are most everyone posting here or all the other cookiegate type threads. A year In a half ago, despite whatever improvements I would have made, I came back from a cruise the first one, and would have recommended it to anyone. I knew from my own experience, that on board it would be great. If it wasn't someone would take care of it if you asked. They'd have plenty of food, sausage and oatmeal at breakfast, some free cookies occasionally, and even better cookie in Eden Cafe, etc. A silly charge for gelato, but plenty of free ice cream, and OBC to cover however much gelato you might eat. If there was a need, a typical response would be something like no problem, I'll see if I can find it. Maybe there'd be a charge, but you wouldn't feel like you'd be ripped off. Now, there may be no one to look, and there might not even be anything to find ... Given the silence, maybe no one would even care. I would be extremely worried of being embarrassed or worse if I recommended a cruise and Celebrity today to someone who is going to be taking it at some point in the future and didn't know about all of what is going on. Maybe they'd have a great time, would be great stuff on board, but it's just not a certain thing, and other than more money going to Celebrity, there doesn't seem to be anything that's going to change for the better. That's in front of the scenes, and also behind the scenes. Yikes.

Someone may want to screenshot the posts. Just saying.....

Like Transformers: More than Meets the Eye. Cookiegate was deflection, this opens up the opportunity for many more cookiegates. And, shows their old model doesn't work. Seems desperate and destabilizing to crew that may be the only thing Celebrity had going for it.

This is a "sensitive subject" for some reason, and I don't mean with posters. Maybe we should just stick to worrying about cookiegate.

I would be very surprised if anything ever goes down, and this smacks of ways to make it more confusing and extract more revenue for guests either with respect to the stuff that's impacted, or just a free up the ability to do it elsewhere.

Small overall number of cruises headed to CocoCay and not until Summer 2024, and many may have already been booked.... but removal of OBC from Retreat allows Celebrity to charge for CocoCay amenities and actually achieve revenue. We viewed OBC as a way that a Celebrity was building in some choice and incentives, yet still making the overall experience all inclusive. Presume we were paying for it in one way or another. The cookie or Eden, for example, could have been covered by OBC while someone else may used have it on something else. Spread people out, but got them using the ship and excursions.

Frankly, a lot classier and less transactional to have gratuities included. Seemed to work well too.

You'll probably need to bring it from home.

Pre new management - Our own examples would include Apex crew interactions with our then young son, arranging for meeting the magician who was just awesome with kids and a good spirit; Luminae staff accommodating a seating preference, food allergies, and saving a particular dessert for me to enjoy twice; the kids camp staff; our room attendant making a towel animal because we had a child and I invited it (if they've worked on most any other line they will know how to make them, it's passed down and around among crew); Retreat hosts being attentive and engaging; Eden food and staff, and other similar examples. And, senior staff that pivoted and made adjustments when things were mentioned. Hotel Director down to team leader for rooftop grill were sharp and on top of things that could have added up. And, first cruise in March 2022 on Edge with full testing, 60-70% occupancy, but full Retreat, was also good (remarkable with the testing in hindsight) and got us to the one above. Butler, Gordon, was a great guide for first timers. Important caveat to the above, I always felt the crew, brand, onboard resources (like menu items and ingredients), culture, reasonable expectations, were aligned.

The floor space in CS living rooms is considerable, and was such that the rocking chair at least fit. We found the utility limited mostly because of weight and shape, so repositioning it or moving it out of the way was a chore. The CS was useless though because the partition lets light in and from the bedroom. Seems to have been an issue on earlier classes of ships too. We prefer walls vs a dirty drape or curtain, but the light issue has us thinking the room was no better for two separate sleepers than a Sky Suite configuration.

In case anyone is interested, here's some background on ship building at Royal and Celebrity. There's a lot more. Haven't tried the IV myself. https://www.royalcaribbeangroup.com/bio/harri-kulovaara/ Probably has had a hand in most everything over most ships in the fleet from how it reads. And, do like that at least someone is thinking about that layout of the ships in a cohesive way, how it makes one feel, people flow, and so on. Might not always agree with it. Not sure we see consistent thought across fleets of every cruise line. Of course, soft items like furniture choice, and other decisions start elsewhere. And, ship design when combined with management that understood how to use the design to add to the overall product and create a symbiosis it can be magical, immersive and so on. The IV isn't that, but considering cutbacks and such, it's unclear to me Celebrity is thinking about overall passenger experiences except in ways to annoy or repel.

They may not want to have anyone eat breakfast in Luminae. Maybe that's the strategy.

Seriously, oatmeal and sausage are not fringe items. Why would they take each off the menu? Do they need to now source either from another kitchen or are they gone? Why does Celebrity make everything extra difficult on its guests. The sense of wow shouldn't be because they find some oatmeal or send a runner to the OVC for sausage. And, for a moment, what if they cut oatmeal and sausage? It looks that way. Sometimes one can excuse or rationalize the menu based on different cultures being catered to, a desire to be international, language barriers or simplification, but this is plain dumb and stupid. One more cutback, more negative PR, or at least doubt. Not suggesting we need to get into the merits of Marriott, but if anyone wrote the book on baseline hotel breakfast and hospitality, it's Marriott. And, they have oatmeal, and one of their claims to fame and consistency. About $6.99 for a 42oz carton of Quaker. (FYI, I just read that Marriott uses a version named Kettle Oats, which are a bit heartier than the Old Fashioned, sold to restaurants). Of course, just about everywhere has oatmeal. Random thought, when do the TAs start voicing concern, or are they sheep? Maybe they will sell packets of instant oatmeal to be made in room with a kettle that can be rented by the minute, ordered from the Butler team, and arriving by the end of the cruise!

Ummm, no sausage? Or will they offer that for $2.40 a patty or link to remind us of a warm fresh breakfast at any fast food to 5 star hotel on earth?

Eden Cafe on Edge Class ships open for 1.5 hrs or so on days at sea had cookies that appeared higher quality than other locations on the ship. They were likely baked onboard before being set out, but it was not evident the dough was made onboard or even by Celebrity. My strong guess is the dough is the standard frozen product sourced from Gordon Food Service from which Celebrity purchases items as seen on product labels around the ship, and most commonly cooking spray. The math would come to about .37 cents USD a cookie if paying published prices, which would be surprising for Royal as a whole. Somewhat related reminder, this is the cruise line that is perfectly fine with a cheese and cracker plate being comprised of deli sliced non-aged cheddar and a few saltines. So, even with what was a high crew to passenger ratio, the best they could do was deliver saltines.

Agree 💯%. Current management doesn't want to maintain the brand or work hard to figure out how to make it work for 3k passengers per ship. And, the weekend customer service calls show they don't understand costs either. No way the cookie revenue covers even a small number of responses to cookiegate.

What's next? Speculation only, and none good: Converting everything at Cafe al Bacio to a fee, and then after the uproar announcing that they will become Starbucks and charging even more. Pay for good seats in the theaters for certain shows. Eliminating the Spa Cafe. Charging for seats in the solarium. Replacing the gym on Edge class with more suites (like what they did with a lounge on an earlier class of ships) and a small paid lounge for forward views for non-Retreat guests. Charging for Eden Cafe (the one that is currently included although rarely open). Fee for Magic Carpet access. Fee for tenders to port. Fee for the captain/senior officers/crew performing comedy/trivia/axe throwing (with a recorded intro by Captain Kate and Jason Liberty). Mast Grill from included to a fee. Plus more cutbacks.

Note: Not looking to supplant cruise reviews or live threads. Please use those methods for full reports. With all the talk of cutbacks, negativity, uncertainty, and more, here's a place to make mention and discuss super awesome Celebrity experiences before, during or after a cruise, even if it's something previously reported (link it). Maybe it was a great booking experience, a speciality restaurant, a crew member making magic, a dish at the MDR, a room configuration, distance of room to coffee or tea, room service, gym, the decor, coke vs pepsi, a chocolate on the pillow, something we can't think of... Info that may be useful: the ship and date/time period; price (if relevant); if you think it would be repeatable given the types of cutbacks that have been reported; if you think it's unique to Celebrity or comparable to what you would receive from any resort; if you think the price would be worth it if you had to pay (a) a la carte on top of the same or a higher cruise fare, or (b) a higher cruise fare (paid 90 or more days prior to sailing).

FWIW, thanks to everyone for sharing their insights. If people stop, it would be unfortunate. These posts and boards are one of the few ways to have any idea about what a cruise might be or would have been, the good, and the bad. And, if anyone has anything good to share or past awesomeness to remember, please share it. Start a thread on things, and hopefully the conditions are such whatever it is will happen to someone else in the same situation (at the same price).

Agree with @Georgia_Peaches. The prior era Celebrity, and the earlier iterations were selling an experience that none of the other lines have from decor, food, etc. For some it was aspirational and for others it may be a heightened or more convenient version of their everyday. From a holistic standpoint, and the Edge Class ships especially, need happy guests at all classes of rooms that can enjoy the same things and each other. Eden needs people to be filled, the big ship shows need a big ship budget, and so on. Someone must have figured out that is about 3k passengers, with 200 suites, etc. The unique thing about the Celebrity we cruised on was the entire ship was "nice" and their was a baseline of quality and service. And, everyone was there for it. If people drop off, the ecosystem doesn't work. It is a different experience for everyone, the cookie lover, nonsmoking gambler, etc.

Avoid Hertz unless you want lines like Alamo in Orlando in 1999, and cars that are lemons, in my experience. At SFO a few weeks ago they rented me a car (Nissan Rogue) that as soon as I left wouldn't accelerate over 40 mph on the HWY 101, and then a malfunction warning message appeared. I returned it after a nearby business meeting. They asserted I took too long to return it, didn't know how to drive, and was imagining the issue. They then proceeded to charge me for the rental that then had to be disputed with the bank. There was barely anyone to engage with for resolution, and not even someone with an electronic scanner to mark the car in the system as being a death trap. Enterprise then walked me to another car, and couldn't have been better or easier to interact with both with their eager beaver new grad representatives and their app system.

True. As a new cruiser, but someone who looked backward quite a bit to understand it and select a first cruise (or none at all), it seemed from actions and words the prior execs were at least attempting to create a positive feel good experience; and that Celebrity / LLP were allowed to be different, and better. Money that went to water slides and shows went to having more crew and space per passenger, and other things. The new crew are all Bob Chapek's looking to squeeze the last dollar, and rubbing it in I will say that we found that prices for a suite with access to coastal kitchen on RC (which was really hard to figure out the final pricing on) was coming out higher than Retreat in 2022. And, that was before we added in the necessary upsells that were fuzzy to create a comparable package, including the value of OBC to cover excursions. So, Celebrity was a relative bargain and known to be demonstrably better quality in many ways. That seems to be over. Folks should also keep count of all all the pricing info and metrics. By the time the new management is finished, many of the prices for optional but needed packages will be impossible to find or dynamic, including desserts, coffee, drinks, and more. The Royal model is to get and force people to spend onboard. That was not the vibe Celebrity was going for with all included and crew that would be incentivised to generate satisfaction. The cookie is more than just being about a cookie. It's about getting wallets open. Look for more ways to drain OBC onboard, more overages on certain drinks, and other top off upsells, then less OBC, and even more gimmicks. There's going to need to be an shifting of onboard culture if Jason and Laura succeed with their playbook. And, for them Celebrity is a tremendous opportunity if you're looking to find more opportunities for revenue, even if we perceive risk to keeping a flow of reccuring passengers.