BWIVince

Ok, big picture post coming... From outside the industry, I think if you look at Crystal's relationship with Nobu you just take it as face value as another licensing deal -- which it is. But I think there's a significant role it's played in both luxury cruising and helping redefine Crystal as a brand in its middle-age that sometimes gets overlooked. For the first decade+ of Crystal's life, they (and EVERY other luxury line through their absence) struggled to make an Asian cuisine concept that people viewed as appropriately premium for luxury cruising. They tried making Japanese fancy, they tried focusing on what's normally expensive on Asian menus, they tried using primarily ingredients people perceived as luxurious, they tried going trendy with Asian fusion, they tried going authentic with popular southeast Asian flavors -- none of it resonated -- despite two venues and a handful of concepts between them. Then Crystal applied a formula that worked for them on other projects -- license a venue consulted with a chef that has premium cachet in that segment. That was a tried and true formula, but groundbreaking for an Asian venue on a cruise ship at the time -- and it was HIGHLY successful in turning Crystal's reputation (and of Asian food in general for US-based ships at the time) on that aspect. Looking around the industry, I don't think this is something that other lines have really solved for either. Other luxury or upper-premium lines have Asian venues or concepts that serve good food, just like Crystal did before Nobu. Other lines serve good sushi. Good sushi and good Asian dishes are a given in most of our lives, and most Americans can now get that within a reasonably short drive of our homes. I enjoy the variety of both on a cruise, but the "I had that last week before my cruise and will probably have it again next week after I get home" limits my excitement in those cases. What Nobu brought to the party was something fewer people had that same access to (whether because of location or price point), and a brand that was perceived as both premium and relatively unique - though many of his dishes are mimicked worldwide now... Which again speaks to his cachet. So whether or not some passengers thought Nobu was a culinary icon or not (or to their taste), it certainly represented Crystal pushing the cruise industry to turn a corner on what it meant to serve Asian cuisines to luxury passengers. Mimicking this success is what's at stake in this potential change. Just some food for thought. Vince

I mean yes, BUT, there will also be a point in time when the plans are finalized, everything will go into fabrication, and the installation work will begin. More info will become available at those various points, just like it does with EVERY refit. So I don't blame anyone holding off to book because they're not comfortable with the unknowns -- many people wouldn't be... And this is always the fun with a new launch, and relatively new territory for a company to launch on such a compressed timeline. But it's hardly the first time we've seen info and details change as the design process progresses on a travel industry project, let alone a cruise ship. Vince

That was exactly the lens I framed my message in the other other thread with, but these renderings don’t go that direction either (THANKFULLY)…. There are no open wire bins, exposed hanging rods, open shelves or cubbies in the renderings either, like every hotel room built in the last 2 years is loaded with. Otherwise I’d at least be able to be able to make sense of that, even though it would be its own disaster (see: Virgin Voyages). Vince

I raised the same concern in another thread — I’m with you on this, as I used most of those drawers on longer cruises! On Symphony, there were 8 regular drawers, a shallow desk drawer, the corner bar cabinet, the three shelves on the inboard side, the tall shelf on the outboard side, plus the safe and fridge. The new diagrams only show the 4 knobs on the outboard side of the desk and the shallow drawer on the new desk units, and the desk chair in the renderings obscure the drawer details. If there really are 4 drawers there, assuming the safe goes in the closet , what happens to the fridge? Also, the nightstands look taller and like they provide more storage than the current ones, but not not that much more. Something doesn’t add up here…. But this is always the fun of speculating from renderings, on a project with such a compressed timeline. Vince

I can’t speak for Serenity, but Symphony’s former PS and PH penthouses received new sofas, side chairs, cocktail tables, and the desk chairs were recovered before she reentered service in 2021. As Keith said we don’t know what the detailed plans are yet, but worst case even if they did nothing to the classic Aquamarines and Sapphires, the furnishings just had a few months of pretty light service since the last update, minus anything unspeakable happening during the layup. Vince

Coincidences always make troubleshooting tricky. 😊 We’re all still learning about the nuances of the new pricing schema. Vince

Is it possible that your room premium just happens to equal the destination fee? 🤷🏻‍♂️ That seems a lot more likely than you being the only person that the website isn’t showing the fares inclusive of destination fees. Vince

Also, seeing the three generations of Symphony’s Sapphire Veranda Suites side by side kind of reminds me of the movie Multiplicity, where Michael Keaton gets a little quirkier with each generation of copy. Although the design of the 2023 version is a little closer to what I originally envisioned they were going to do in 2017, it really accentuates the size difference with the originals and the location of the toilet seems especially problematic. Vince

Crystal never got updated press photos for the new furniture and carpeting for Symphony’s Classic suites, so the photos are a little out of date, but they’re technically accurate enough to pick a room type at least. (Once the deck plans reflect the descriptions) Vince

On a different note, they seem to have made some progress on the suite differentiation, at least on Symphony. ”Redesigned 2023,” “Redesigned 2017,” “Redesigned 2013” (CP), and “Classic” all now show with appropriate photos and diagrams — now just to update the deck plans accordingly and we’ll be all set. Vince

I think you’re misunderstanding how the capacity control worked, and also comparing apples and oranges. I need to switch to Symphony for this example because I don’t actually have any experience booking single supplements on Serenity under the final single policy Crystal had their last 7 years or so…. But I assume Serenity has fewer single cabins (I haven’t looked at Serenity at all yet because I’ve had no interest), so feel free to adjust these numbers to Serenity’s — my point here is the mechanics of the calculations and not the ratios between the ships. Crystal’s former policy bucketed the supplement by room type, and then allocated it by category. So you had one rate for ocean view, one rate for veranda, etc., but then you had a specific number of rooms allocated between C, D, E, etc. So while you could book any specific available cabin on deck 7 (in your category), not all the rooms on deck 7 could be occupied by singles (without inventory intervention). I ran into the inventory limitation on two different cruises under the final policy, the most recent being my last cruise before the Covid shutdown in the fall of 2019, where I had to take a room in a higher category in order to get the single supplement. So I understand where people would want to say 4% of the inventory is being promoted to singles, so let’s compare that number…. But it doesn’t equate. Right now Crystal is designating over 25% of Symphony’s ocean view staterooms as single — that is FAR more than they ever allowed singles to book in any group of room types, IME, in the past, no matter how you broke out the categories. Now I don’t like the designation of specific rooms for singles and never have (I was protester number 1 on this every time it was floated here in years past), and I don’t like that for now everything else reportedly pays double, but I don’t want the former policy to be confused on how it worked either though — it had plenty of limitations, as generous as it was. Vince

Again I agree with all those points, I just have a couple of different takeaways given some industry perspective. As I mentioned above, 4% is actually a LOT of designated single inventory, especially when it’s taking up a much higher percent of one room type. It doesn’t sound like a lot, but in the US market, it generally goes down fast from there. Take it from us singles. I go back to an earlier point when it comes to “take it or leave it”…. No luxury line in the US market has started out without sales history and offered any great incentive for singles. Crystal’s ORIGINAL single supplement, without sales history, was 160% for all staterooms and 200% for all penthouses. Other lines initially did the same, or higher, without exceptions. All of the above have evolved single fares as they had data on how to leverage them, which requires sales history. I guarantee that with feedback and data, Crystal’s single offerings will evolve over the next couple of years. Absolutely, I say vote with your wallet, BUT this kind of thing is never “set it and forget it”, it’s more like a best-guess stop-gap until you have enough info to do something more precise. Vince

That may sound small, but perspective is important here. (A) Thats a higher percentage than most ships in the US market allocate. QM2, for example, has about 1.5%. (B). That’s a far higher percent of rooms of the type than old Crystal’s past allocation of the single supplements. Again, this doesn’t represent all of the single market — not everyone is going to want that room type, just like they didn’t in the past…. Just the staterooms being marketed exclusively to singles. Vince

Sooooooo…. I admit I’ve been pretty tied up with an on-site event for the past few weeks and haven’t had much time to study the deck plans, but are we to assume that the public space renovations on both ships will be limited to some furniture (and maybe carpet or soft goods) here and there, and that the only public spaces being “extensively renovated” will be the two with renderings supplied (Bistro and former Prego on both ships)? Vince

I completely agree with your point, but market demographics also play a huge role into this, and temper that point a good bit. First, singles are a huge segment of this demographic — for better or worse thats just an inevitable reality, especially on the wealthier end where people can afford not to couple or recouple in order to make ends meet. Crystal obviously sees this or they wouldn’t have set aside such a large percent of cabins as singles. Second, making more money selling both berths assumes full occupancy — a fantasy that has eluded Crystal for 30+ years. Previous Crystal’s single occupancy strategy was to sell cabins projected to go unsold at their low supplements (they were capacity controlled around the projections), but because occupancy was low enough, they were readily available. In fairness, Regent and other lines are doing the EXACT same thing by sailing, only offering low/no supplements on the sailings where they project having inventory spoiling. Now that Crystal has lowered inventory to historical occupancy levels, we’ll see if the new mix sells at the price points offered. If it does, great, then the point about selling two berths vs. one will be valid, but until they get a full year of occupancy data, this isn’t a foregone conclusion. Lastly to others in the thread, mocking people for not wanting to waste thousands extra on inclusions they don’t personally need (like air and excursions) is childish and only makes you look like fools. This was as true back when people debated when Crystal went AI as it is with comparing other lines inclusions that are of wildly varying value to different people. You all are better than that. Vince

They were indeed! (Neptune theme) Urban legend has it those things were all sold off for whatever they could get, but I have no way to verify that. That could in theory still be Gregg Michel for $1. 😁 The bridge over the “stream” in Jade Garden is another one of those retired features people talk about being in someone’s collection somewhere as well. Vince

For fun yesterday I was trying to think of what I would do with the space on Symphony, and for some reason I didn’t come up with a new concept or service, as much as a reshuffling of spaces to enhance existing services. To be clear this is fan-fiction, not in any way a serious suggestion or prediction. Just having some fun for discussion sake. The on-the-cheap thought was to move the library into that space and expand it, making it a kind of interactive destination center in addition, as some other lines have done. It could also have comfortable seating for people to sit and read. (I would love for it to have the bookstore component like Cunard with maritime books and such, but alas that’s not consistent with Crystal’s brand.). The destination component could be a cross-brand opportunity with A&K, to help showcase their expertise globally. Moving a library next to a night club seems a little problematic, but I think the staggered hours would mitigate most of that issue. Most importantly, this would help free up some space to return to retail, where the second-generation library currently is. The elaborate and crazy-expensive thought was to move the Bridge Lounge into the casino space, and completely expand and reallocate the specialty dining spaces aft on Deck 6. Essentially the space currently occupied by the Asian venue, the Italian venue, the galley and the Bridge Lounge would be completely reapportioned, allowing for an expanded galley and two slightly larger venues with a bit more seating. Both would remain connected directly with the galley, but each would retain their own entrances port and starboard like they have now. In theory this isn’t as needed because of the lowered occupancy, but the concept changes proposed so far are reducing the dinner venue capacity more than the occupancy, so it remains to be seen how this impacts demand on those two specialty venues. Just having some fun… Vince

Speaking for myself and not Ken, this is one of the reasons I didn't do an open booking in the first place... I wouldn't have been able to book a sailing before Q3 2024 most likely, which would have been outside the chargeback window for the initial deposit. If I had booked I might have kept the risk though -- I think odds of needing to get it back at all plus the odds of not filing the claim before the cutoff are especially low compared to the odds of actually using the discount... But just throwing that out there because that's another scenario besides needing the cash. 🙂 Vince

I know you mean that as a joke, but I feel like this is something that a lot of people don't understand so I'll kind of piggyback a comment on that for people that don't think there's a real answer to. 🙂 In concept, the money went to pay refunds on people that had non-refundable cancellations, since that money isn't accounted for in US accounting standards for travel suppliers. In practice, your money may still be sitting there in that reserve account. When the chargeback period times out, control reverts back to the merchant, in this case the assignee, and to gets added to the pool for reimbursement as prescribed. This is why I encouraged everyone to file a claim, no matter how useless they thought it was. Again, I'm not trying make something serious out of the joke, but I keep seeing themes come up that people need to know there are real answers to. 🙂 Vince

Anne, I'd add on to your point that for better or worse, Crystal sailing seldom sailed anywhere near capacity, so it's not like the singles were taking berths away from other paying customers. (The number of single cabins offered per sailing was controlled to prevent that from happening, but in practice I was never declined a stateroom at the reduces supplement, so it never seemed to be an issue.) I agree with others that Crystal's former inventory situation isn't something to aspire too, and I don't blame Crystal for trying to take another approach (especially with how much enthusiasm there was on the board for dedicated single cabins (ugh!)), but I suspect the new sales leadership is going to learn some lessons and make some tweaks to this plan once they get some sales history in their hands, and some market feedback from agents and customers. Just a guess though... Singles are a pretty lucrative market in this segment -- you just have to balance a few factors to ensure profitability. Vince

😄 I can think of few industries on our planet that have perfected the art of investing variable amounts in specific customer relationships and refined personas than the travel industry. Vince

One thing I wanted to add, was that Crystal’s relationship was Nobu was neither unique in the industry (dozens of chefs from David Burke and Thomas Keller to Curtis Stone have done the exact same thing) nor unique to Crystal…. Wolfgang Puck, Piero Selvaggio and Azmin Ghahreman, at a minimum, had the exact same relationship with Crystal as Nobu, and Crystal had slightly different consultancy with other chefs like Andre Soltner and Jon Ashton where they consulted on specific projects and not concepts. I think that list of chefs, and similar projects from other lines shows how transient these projects can be, and may reflect on the future of Nobu’s relationship with Crystal. That said though, I can’t think of a celebrity chef licensing deal off the top of my head that’s lasted anywhere near 19-20 years, so the notion that somehow Nobu was in any way reluctant or disinterested all this time is nuts to me — especially when few of these contracts last half that time — if that. Vince

I’ve never heard that rumor before, but Nobu signed and renewed that contract for almost 20 years. I imagine if he wasn’t interested in continuing the relationship, he had ample opportunity not to renew it each time. Seems to me he found it pretty valuable, based on that track record. That’s obviously not to say the relationship is worth the price to either the new company or Nobu at this point, but that’s a completely different point than whether he thought it was worth it for the 19 years and whatever months they worked together. Vince

I wouldn't be surprised if they just tied into A&K's existing vendor to keep things consistent and tap their pricing volume. Contracted call centers are pretty standard among travel suppliers, especially for lower priority call queues, like general inquiries and direct sales. Vince

Port calls are normally locked in 3 or more years in advance, at least for the popular ones... Even if the cruise line doesn't market them at that point. Trying to start from scratch even a year out puts them behind the 8 ball -- they can only pick from what's left at that point. Vince