ak1004

In fact I do sleep with earplugs, for years, in hotels, cruise ships, flights and even at home.

All excellent points, and another thing that is often missed by the conspiracy theory advocates is all the revenue lost from shore excursions. This alone can account to tens of thousands of dollars per port. Those repeated claims that O (or any other line) misses ports on purpose to save money really get old and tired. But if this is what some people believe, they should definitely look for another line. Good luck in finding the perfect line that never misses ports. Never stops to amaze me how people pay thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars to cruise on a luxury line, but become so cheap when it comes to $10-20 in port charges. btw, SS also does not refund port charges, and I believe it's the same with SB. But if people prefer to sail with Princess, NCL or Carnival because those lines refund port charges, there is not much to discuss.

Agree. Add SS to the mix, although now it’s more difficult to find reasonably priced sailings, and Windstar is also on our radar at some point. And despite all the complains, we still find all of them fantastic. You can always find faults if you look hard enough, but we are trying to focus on the positives.

One of the reasons that our comparisons are a bit different is that we book OV, or FV or Vista, and SB new ships don't even have OV. I realize that this makes the price comparison a bit not fair, but we don't need veranda (especially on port intensive European sailings), then on Encore and Ovation the gap can easily be 20%, and we would be paying for something that we hardly use. But for people who book veranda, SB prices are even more appealing and the gap can be indeed less than 10%. We did sail on SS twice, I expect SB to be comparable. We would probably book any of those three, given the right itinerary and price.

$600 USD per day per person sounds really expensive, even for Vista. Accidently, we are booked on the 12 days sailing on the Vista London to London on June 3, right after the one you mentioned, and the price per day is around $440 per day for B4. (we actually booked B5, French Veranda, just when they came out and had 5% discount, at $360 USD per person). So the high price might be related to this specific itinerary and not the ship. Our itinerary is Spain/France while yours is British Isles. Not sure why British Isles is so much more expensive. So while in general the gap between O and SB is smaller now, there is still around 15-20% price difference. I found out that typical price on O for OV is around $350-400 while on SB around $450-500. So is it worth to pay 20% for larger cabin, unlimited caviar and maybe slightly better service? For me the answer is yes if the itinerary is significantly better. Otherwise, not so sure. This is of course based on what I read about SB, we are doing our first in September, so will see.

On SS the caviar can be ordered basically anywhere. Bars, Arts Cafe (where we usually order it) etc, and it's on the menu in the Atlantide every night. We had a "standing order" for caviar in Arts Cafe every day at 4pm (except the days when we were outside). Regarding formal nights on SB, just to clarify - does it mean I don't have to take a jacket with me if I don't want to? Can just eat anywhere except the Restaurant on formal nights?

Of course I understand. It's a matter of personal preference. To me, an extra 25% in space is not worth an extra 50% in the fare. To someone else it is. btw, Crystal entry level cabins are 215 sqft with no balcony, and start at $650-700 USD, so more expensive than Explora. And some people are still willing to pay those prices. Cabin size is just one parameter. It is more important to some people, less important to others. Also depends on the details - I would be more willing to pay to go from 200 sqft to 250 sqft than from 250 sqft to 300 sqft.

This is not the point because most cruise lines use the same or similar exchange rate. But the point is that average European cruise is around $500 CAD or $370 USD on O, but around $750 CAD or $550 USD on Explora. If I had to pay ~50% more, I would like to understand what I'm paying for. Larger cabin? Not worth to me, 240 sqft is more than sufficient. What else? Based on the review and what I read in general, I just don't see what can possibly justify the price gap.

This is true, but different people have different priorities and preferences. If someone cares about good entertainment, enrichment, and doesn't care about smaller cabins, they might consider Crystal a better deal. If someone likes black caviar that costs $2k per kg, and you get it unlimited on SB or SS, then they might be willing to pay for it. If someone likes the convenience on included excursions and flights, they might be willing to pay for it on Regent and SS. On the other hand, for people who don't drink and like to book private tours, SS or Regent might be not a good deal because they would be paying for something the won't use. Crystal fans will tell you that they feel like family on Crystal ships. They know the crew, the crew knows them, calls them by names etc. How much this is worth? To them, thousands. To me, zero. Someone who doesn't mind crowds, lines and paying extra for almost everything, might consider Celebrity or Princess a good deal.

That's fine, not a big deal. We were on Riviera before the refurbishment, it was still in good shape. And even if the showers remain same size, they are still fine (unlike the R ships).

Even with sales, no European cruise was under $500 USD.

When did you book and which region? I looked at current prices for next year in Europe, nothing less than $500.

Those sizes for the Vista are accurate. We sailed in larger cabins on Silversea which are comparable to Explora. While it was definitely very nice to have a walking closet and curtain separating the bed and the seating area, we find the 240 sqft cabins more than sufficient. Which brings me to the price. Entry level cabins on Vista prices around $350-400 per person for European cruises, while Explora is around $500-550. If entry level on Vista is sufficient, how can someone justify paying 40-50% more for Explora? I know that O excludes alcohol outside the meals, but they include now some excursion credit, which can offset the cost of the drinks package. So in terms of inclusions, there is not much difference. Based on the review, I don't see that Explora is in a different league to justify just big price difference.

Thank you. We do plan ahead, usually book 2 years in advance. But this can be a double edge sword - if we are currently fully booked for 2024-2025, we cannot take advantage of any special offers. But since we book our business flights with points, we need to book flights 11-12 months in advance, so booking a cruise to Europe 4-6 months in advance is not an option. As for pricing - I was referring to European sailings. We did trans Atlantics once, it was fine, but we prefer port intensive sailings at this point. I know that TAs are cheaper, just not on our list at this point. Still too many places to see..

Why people are so concerned about other people hearing them? If you are concerned about hearing others at night, bring earplugs. From what I remember from our previous cruises, most people sleep at night..

Curious why you consider Vista is a big step up from Marina & Riviera (except for the age obviously).

You are correct in general. However, our daily limit is $500 USD per day. Why? We are very satisfied with Oceania (although I know it's not considered in the same category, but it's good enough for us), and we pay $350-400 USD for a typical European cruise on O. We are willing to pay slightly more for a "luxury" line, but I just cannot justify paying more than $500. So, on SB, there are plenty of sailings under $500. On Crystal or Explora? NONE. Not even close. To charge 30-50% more, they have to be in a different league compared to SB. Are they?

We sailed on the Riviera twice before the refurbishment and once after. Didn't see huge difference. Yes, they have now a larger shower, but the shower before the refurbishment was perfectly fine. Couldn't really care less about furnishings. Both are fine. We sail for destinations and spend very little time in the cabin. Definitely not a deal breaker for us. All newer ships still much better than the R ships, regardless of the shower size.

I checked pricing of typical 8-10 nights European cruise next summer and compared it to Seabourn, as this is the closest in terms of inclusions. SB - $450-500 per person per night Ex - $500-550 CR - $650-700 Of course there are exceptions, but most sailings fall into that range. Prices are for entry level cabins, which are 215 sqft on Crysta;, around 290 sqft on SB and I think ~300 sqft on Explora. Few observations: As I mentioned many times, Crystal prices are insane to me. Personally I don't mind sailing in a 215 sqft cabin (we spend very little time in a cabin), but all other factors equal, I still prefer a larger cabin on a newer ship. But Explora is still more expensive than SB - why? SB is an established luxury brand, with proven track record. Explora is a new player. Should have more attractive price to steal loyal customers from other brands. Which brings me to the next question: are you sailing for destinations, or the ship is the destination? If the ship is the destination, then having a nice library, a running track, better entertainment and enrichment, more personalized service at Crystal might be enough to justify the higher price. Otherwise, if you are in the port most of the day, it is less important. Yes, Crystal has now one of the highest space/passenger ratios, but SS and even Oceania never felt crowded to me.

I think we can all agree that Oceania has a great product but very poor communication skills, and this is the cause of frustration for many people. When things go as planned, everything is great, but when something goes wrong, their ability to resolve the issue and/or at least to communicate it has a lot to be desired. The good thing is that it's not vice versa (poor product but good communication). We have to accept the fact that despite the best intentions, bad things happen, and it's usually not on purpose, and sometimes there is just no way to fix it.

Personally I have a lot of compassion. I would be absolutely furious if it happened to me. Did you ask how they were able to give you a cabin 3 days before the end of the cruise? Is it possible that it was occupied before? Maybe someone disembarked due to medical emergency or some other reason? Maybe it was occupied by a guest entertainer who disembarked? Many possible scenarios, but you assumed that they had the cabin available all the time and refused to give it to you for some reason.

I think it's a legitimate question. I know I would be very frustrated too if this happened to me, but maybe the ship was indeed full? If this was the case, how would you suggest they could resolve the issue?

Do you have any evidence that they did have available cabins and just enjoyed keeping you warm?

Sure! But not me! There are more than enough Crystal fans who will pay almost any price.

Are you sure? On the Riviera they did a complete upgrade of the bathrooms, removed bathtubs from most cabins and installed big showers. This was done even on OV cabins. Is Marina refurbishment different?