ak1004

We came to the exactly the same conclusion. I would consider O much closer to the true luxury lines than mass market lines. To us, it's all about itinerary and price. We would probably consider lines like SB where the prices are often fairly close to O. Crystal now has the most absurd pricing of all lines. Paying more than O 60-70% for a smaller cabin on a 20+ years ship doesn't make sense to me. Yes, it was marginally better than O in terms of service when we sailed with them 5 years ago, and probably still is, but I won't pay those prices. In most cases the improvement is really just marginal in many areas.

We look mostly at Europe too, and yes, we expected SB to be much more expensive too. That said, I just looked at Vista prices and compared to Ovation and Encore. Vista entry level veranda is in $450-500 USD a day range. Some slightly less, some slightly more, but most fall into that range. SB does have few sailings under $500 USD, but most are still around $500-600. So on average, SB is still more expensive, but I agree that the gap is much smaller that I expected. Of course it's not exactly apples to apples - SB is more inclusive (although the excursion credit on O offsetting the drinks cost more or less) and the cabins are larger. So finding SB sailing around $500 or less would be very attractive if the itinerary is good.

@ORVand @shepherd really please remind me, any cancelled ports, reduced port times or any other itinerary changes on your sailings?

Is this unique to O? I see a lot of reports about cancelled ports on other lines as well. And I still don't see how they save money by cancelling ports. I believe the opposite is true - tens of thousands of dollars of lost revenue from cancelled excursions would far outpace any savings they might have from ports fees or fuel savings.

Yes, we discussed it, it really depends on the itinerary and the category you book. In some cases Oceania is not more expensive than Celebrity, depending mostly on the ship. But overall, SB is more expensive on average, otherwise I don't think many people would book O. Viking prices don't make sense to me at all. In many cases they are more expensive than SS (and SS includes excursions as well).

Hank, you are so right about the "value". Some people might say that while O is better than HAL, the cost makes it poor value. Some might say the same when comparing O to SS or SB. So it's really about expectations. For us, we don't go back to big ships, even if costs half compared to O, but everyone is different. We are well aware of O shortcomings (mediocre entertainment, poor internet etc) and we learned to accept them.

Thank you for the review. I don't think O competes directly with SB, probably more with Azamara, Viking and Windstar. SB is also more inclusive and more expensive, so you might expect to get a slightly better experience. We sailed on Azamara once and enjoyed it very much. We found service comparable with O, food slightly better on O, but we like the newer ships on O better. Much better cabins, more dining choices etc. I would recommend trying one of the newer ships.

I really learned to take the reviews with a grain of salt. Some of them are just ridiculous. This applies to all lines. We were on SS in Dec.2022, had a great time. When we returned, someone posted a 1 star review titled "a cruise to hell". Read recent reviews on SB, SS and Regent, all cost significantly more than O. We did 3 cruises on O post Covid, 2 on Riviera and 1 on Regatta. No complains about the food, in fact, I liked it better than SS. Service pretty consistent as well. Entertainment and activities still mediocre, as we expected. Excursions mixed bag, we will probably book mostly private tours going forward. So I don't really see the decline that some people talk about. Many sailings are sold out months in advance. You can always find faults if you dig deep enough. For us, O still offers best value for money, till proven otherwise.

If TV is part of the problem, should be fairly easy to fix I would think? Especially if they are aware of the issue and admit there is a problem.

Well, if people don't do their homework.. and believe they got half price.. it's a win/win.

THIS I completely agree. But it has nothing to do with port charges.

I was wondering the same thing. Did they make thinner walls to save money? I don't believe this is the case, but people can believe what they want. Why it's okay for some people and too noisy for others? Is it the location of the TV? The angle? But if some people declare it a ‘no fly zone’, better for us, as the ships will be less full..

In fact I do sleep with earplugs, for years, in hotels, cruise ships, flights and even at home.

All excellent points, and another thing that is often missed by the conspiracy theory advocates is all the revenue lost from shore excursions. This alone can account to tens of thousands of dollars per port. Those repeated claims that O (or any other line) misses ports on purpose to save money really get old and tired. But if this is what some people believe, they should definitely look for another line. Good luck in finding the perfect line that never misses ports. Never stops to amaze me how people pay thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars to cruise on a luxury line, but become so cheap when it comes to $10-20 in port charges. btw, SS also does not refund port charges, and I believe it's the same with SB. But if people prefer to sail with Princess, NCL or Carnival because those lines refund port charges, there is not much to discuss.

Agree. Add SS to the mix, although now it’s more difficult to find reasonably priced sailings, and Windstar is also on our radar at some point. And despite all the complains, we still find all of them fantastic. You can always find faults if you look hard enough, but we are trying to focus on the positives.

One of the reasons that our comparisons are a bit different is that we book OV, or FV or Vista, and SB new ships don't even have OV. I realize that this makes the price comparison a bit not fair, but we don't need veranda (especially on port intensive European sailings), then on Encore and Ovation the gap can easily be 20%, and we would be paying for something that we hardly use. But for people who book veranda, SB prices are even more appealing and the gap can be indeed less than 10%. We did sail on SS twice, I expect SB to be comparable. We would probably book any of those three, given the right itinerary and price.

$600 USD per day per person sounds really expensive, even for Vista. Accidently, we are booked on the 12 days sailing on the Vista London to London on June 3, right after the one you mentioned, and the price per day is around $440 per day for B4. (we actually booked B5, French Veranda, just when they came out and had 5% discount, at $360 USD per person). So the high price might be related to this specific itinerary and not the ship. Our itinerary is Spain/France while yours is British Isles. Not sure why British Isles is so much more expensive. So while in general the gap between O and SB is smaller now, there is still around 15-20% price difference. I found out that typical price on O for OV is around $350-400 while on SB around $450-500. So is it worth to pay 20% for larger cabin, unlimited caviar and maybe slightly better service? For me the answer is yes if the itinerary is significantly better. Otherwise, not so sure. This is of course based on what I read about SB, we are doing our first in September, so will see.

On SS the caviar can be ordered basically anywhere. Bars, Arts Cafe (where we usually order it) etc, and it's on the menu in the Atlantide every night. We had a "standing order" for caviar in Arts Cafe every day at 4pm (except the days when we were outside). Regarding formal nights on SB, just to clarify - does it mean I don't have to take a jacket with me if I don't want to? Can just eat anywhere except the Restaurant on formal nights?

Of course I understand. It's a matter of personal preference. To me, an extra 25% in space is not worth an extra 50% in the fare. To someone else it is. btw, Crystal entry level cabins are 215 sqft with no balcony, and start at $650-700 USD, so more expensive than Explora. And some people are still willing to pay those prices. Cabin size is just one parameter. It is more important to some people, less important to others. Also depends on the details - I would be more willing to pay to go from 200 sqft to 250 sqft than from 250 sqft to 300 sqft.

This is not the point because most cruise lines use the same or similar exchange rate. But the point is that average European cruise is around $500 CAD or $370 USD on O, but around $750 CAD or $550 USD on Explora. If I had to pay ~50% more, I would like to understand what I'm paying for. Larger cabin? Not worth to me, 240 sqft is more than sufficient. What else? Based on the review and what I read in general, I just don't see what can possibly justify the price gap.

This is true, but different people have different priorities and preferences. If someone cares about good entertainment, enrichment, and doesn't care about smaller cabins, they might consider Crystal a better deal. If someone likes black caviar that costs $2k per kg, and you get it unlimited on SB or SS, then they might be willing to pay for it. If someone likes the convenience on included excursions and flights, they might be willing to pay for it on Regent and SS. On the other hand, for people who don't drink and like to book private tours, SS or Regent might be not a good deal because they would be paying for something the won't use. Crystal fans will tell you that they feel like family on Crystal ships. They know the crew, the crew knows them, calls them by names etc. How much this is worth? To them, thousands. To me, zero. Someone who doesn't mind crowds, lines and paying extra for almost everything, might consider Celebrity or Princess a good deal.

That's fine, not a big deal. We were on Riviera before the refurbishment, it was still in good shape. And even if the showers remain same size, they are still fine (unlike the R ships).

Even with sales, no European cruise was under $500 USD.

When did you book and which region? I looked at current prices for next year in Europe, nothing less than $500.

Those sizes for the Vista are accurate. We sailed in larger cabins on Silversea which are comparable to Explora. While it was definitely very nice to have a walking closet and curtain separating the bed and the seating area, we find the 240 sqft cabins more than sufficient. Which brings me to the price. Entry level cabins on Vista prices around $350-400 per person for European cruises, while Explora is around $500-550. If entry level on Vista is sufficient, how can someone justify paying 40-50% more for Explora? I know that O excludes alcohol outside the meals, but they include now some excursion credit, which can offset the cost of the drinks package. So in terms of inclusions, there is not much difference. Based on the review, I don't see that Explora is in a different league to justify just big price difference.