ak1004

I'm curious what are the legal reasons? Our TA provides us generous rebates, on top of any promotions or other credits. She also spends time calling O if there are any issues.

We had this on our last cruise. We asked about it, and the waiter said "well, it's a gift, we don't charge corkage fee on gifts". We actually gave our bottle to our friends as we don't drink, still no corkage fee.

Wasn't it the same with oLife? If you booked with oLife and selected 4 excursions, one of them in the last port, and the port was cancelled, wouldn't you lose it?

Well, the FV on the Vista is already around $400/day for most European sailings. Another $50 increase - and I can book SB or SS for basically the same price. I'm sure O are well aware of the competition prices.

Somehow none of my cruises is ever on sale..

If somehow you missed hundreds of posts on at least 5 different threads, all sailings now include drinks with meals and excursions credit.

Exactly how we feel. And to see places not accessible by cruise ship, we can take a river cruise, which has the best of both worlds.

We never sailed on Viking, so cannot comment on the quality of the food or other aspects. And we all know how subjective the food is. However, they have 9 ships (the biggest fleet among all premium and luxury lines), another 8 expected in the next 5 years, and the ships sail full despite the draconic payment policy. They also have the highest rating on CC of ALL lines (4.6) - https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/viking-ocean-cruises/cl/ (O is 3.9). While I don't give too much weight to the reviews, the fact remains. They must be doing something right. You cannot fool all the people all the time.

Hank, You are 100% correct, but it all comes with experience. We usually arrive 2-3 nights before the cruise and stay in the embarkation port. Booking our own hotels and our own excursions. We aim for small group excursions (10-15 people), but also do some exploring on our own. We also book our own air, but there are exceptions, like our SS cruise next year where they offered business class upgrade for $2,000 USD. Also, in some cases pre cruise hotel packages are attractively priced, and if you book through the cruise line, they include transfers and waive deviation fees. We definitely check prices. In our first two cruises from Port Everglades we booked ship transfers, but realized very quickly that taxi is cheaper and more convenient. It does take some experience to become more independent, but we are getting there.. Still feel the most comfortable with combination of land and sea - in our case it's typically 20% land and 80% sea, but it might change. On a related note, ships excursions are not always that bad. On our last SS cruise they had on average around 25 people on those excursions, and I don't think I would be comfortable to explore Al Manamah or Muscat on my own. But in Dubai and Abu Dhabi we had no issues.

SS business class upgrade to Europe is around $2,000 USD for 2024 sailings, a very good value in my opinion. This is for flights from Toronto. We usually don't book air with the cruise line, but this was too good to pass.

I know that Retreat prices are crazy, I was referring to standard cabins.

But Regent is even more inclusive and much more expensive. You presumably pay for unlimited drinks (not only at lunch/dinner) and all excursions (not only a credit).

I would assume that the minimum still applies, otherwise what's the point to have 2 different prices?

I don't disagree. On the contrary. As someone who doesn't drink and prefers to take private tours, I'm among those who would prefer the old program to stay. For me it worked perfectly because we drink a lot of specialty coffee and mineral water, but not alcohol. So it was a perfect fit for us (include things that we use and exclude things we don't). However, this is the trend with all premium/luxury lines. There are many things that we pay for and not necessarily use on the upscale lines. Some people don't use Wi-Fi, but were still paying for it anyway. Some people don't care about specialty restaurants, or don't drink specialty teas and coffees. SS recently started to include excursions in their fares. Where do you draw the line? Cannot please everyone. Many people say that if they wanted to book all inclusive, they would book SB or SS. Maybe they will if the price difference becomes small (I know we will) - and maybe it will cause O to re consider (but I'm not holding my breath). I also agree about the loyalty program, and this is exactly why we sail on many lines. Having those perks is nice, but they are still a relatively small percentage of the total fare. btw, speaking of loyalty programs, Windstar gives you a 5% discount on all sailings after the first sailing. SS does the same for select sailings, and extra 5% after 100 nights. So there are other programs that are also pretty good.

People should always check options and compare. We did it before SM and will continue doing it after SM. Could never understand people who cruise exclusively on one line. No line is perfect. Each line has pros and cons, why not to try more than one? Choice is good. Variety is good. Of course Oceania DOES NOT CARE if you move on. No line does. For them there are two things that matter: profits and guest satisfaction. In that specific order. And if profits come at expense of guests satisfaction, so be it. The SM price increase is now history. It is what it is. Going forward, the only thing that matters is the overall value and how O compares to other lines in terms of itineraries, price, and overall package.

Agree - but small group tours are also significantly more expensive. The only land tour I would consider is something that has maybe only 1-2 travels between cities. Say 4-5 days in Madrid, then 4-5 days in Barcelona and another 4-5 days in Lisbon. In each city there is also an option for short travels to see places nearby. Yes, you definitely see more in each place than on a cruise, but also see less places. On a cruise you "taste" each port, and then decide if it's worth to come back. Some ports are overnight. We also arrive 2-3 nights earlier to each port, so we have at least one place that we learn more in depth. There is a tradeoff to everything.

Exactly. We did it twice with Gate1. 4 cities in 9 days. Theoretically you have 2-3 days in each city. In reality, you spend 5-6 hours just travelling between the cities. Add time for packing/unpacking, hotels check in and check out, etc.

I like Windstar pricing structure. Option 1: cruise only. Option 2: Wi-Fi, unlimited beer, wine, and cocktails, and gratuities for $89/day. For people who drink, it's a very attractive option. People who don't, just pay separately for gratuities and Wi-Fi if they need one. Excursions are extra. This is what I call simple.

Cruising is definitely losing appeal due to the higher costs? I just looked at Trafalgar. Typical 10 nights trip to Europe is around $4,500-5,000 CAD. This is pretty much in line with the cost of OV cabin on Marina/Riviera. And it includes only breakfast and some dinners. All lunches are extra. So adding all extra costs, it might be more expensive than a cruise. And I'm not sure if Trafalgar is a good comparison to O, I think it's more comparable to mid range level like Celebrity. Not to mention that packing/unpacking every few days and extensive time in buses moving from place to place is much less appealing to me.

SS air is a mixed bag. Sometimes there is an excellent value, sometimes it's terrible. The door 2 door pricing includes economy flight, but you can take air credit or upgrade to business. In our cruise next May (Venice-Rome) we are getting the business upgrade from Toronto for $2,800 CAD (Just over $2k USD) - we could never get those prices on our own. Our previous SS cruise in December was about $350 USD per night. This already included excursions. So we go case by case basis and are not overly obsessed about things that we pay for but don't need. We are also perfectly fine with the 240 sqft cabin on the Riviera, so theoretically we are paying for 310 sqft cabin that we don't need (although I must admit it was nice). We also pay for a butler that we hardly utilize (although our last one was much more handsome than me so my wife insisted seeing him twice a day)

I believe we discussed this before. There are many parameters that define luxury. I agree with you about Oceania R ships, I believe that the O class ships are a step above in terms of luxury (cabin size, space/passenger ratios, dining options etc.) space/passenger ratio of QM2 is higher than Oceania O ships - does it make it more luxury? Inclusions is only one of the parameters. SS and regent are more inclusive than Regent - does it make them more luxury? Crystal had entry level cabins smaller than O or Viking - and yet it was considered a luxury line while O and Viking are in the "premium" category. The Celebrity retreat is probably in line with the luxury lines, but it's a small percentage of the cabins and cannot be considered as representative of what vast majority of Celebrity guests experience. And as I mentioned in the other thread, SS includes excursions as well. So does Regent. As we discussed, it's about the overall value.

Hank, two small corrections. SS does include excursions and does charge air deviation fee.

Our friends sailed with Celebrity for 30 years, reached Elite plus. We finally convinced them to try O. They are not going going back to Celebrity. After trying a Mercedes, we are not going back to Honda. Yes, it costs more, but nobody asks why Mercedes costs more than Honda.. If you want a luxury experience, you have to pay for it, including paying for things you don't use.

I looked at Explora, but their sailings to Europe are around $1,000 USD per night. Sounds a bit steep even for a ultra luxury ships.. SB and SS are more reasonable, and in some cases are actually comparable to O. Some sailings start under $500/night. And you will still be paying for things you don't use (like drinks and excursions on SS).

This post is probably the best summary of the last 20 pages of this crazy thread.. When we started looking at SS, I was a bit concerned about paying for other people's drinks. We ended up booking 3 SS cruises because the itinerary and the price was right even including drinks. I ended up paying for other people's drinks, but the amount of black caviar that I consumed probably exceeded several drink packages. Other people were paying for my black caviar because some don't like it, and many just didn't know that they can have anywhere anytime, unlimited. I looked at Windstar. Looks very nice, we might consider it. They don't included drinks (positive for me), but they also don't include Wi-Fi and charge $35/day for it. Gratuities are also not included, while for many O regulars they are already included as part of the loyalty program. So for many people this would be an extra $50/day that has to be added to the cruise price. Yes, I noticed that some sailings say "all inclusive" (drinks, Wi-Fi and gratuities for presumably the same price), but we all know there are no free lunches (and no free drinks, free excursions or free Wi-Fi despite O trying to convince us otherwise for the last 20 years).. So maybe we (non drinkers) should be less obsessed with paying for other people's drinks and more obsessed with the overall value? Things like the overall ship experience, service, food, itineraries, cabins etc. are more important than the extra $50/day. If we want the small ship experience, we are inevitably going to pay for something we don't use, no matter which line we select.