chipmaster

2 hours ago, quattrohead said:

I am 100% sure that air travel contributed to the spread more than ships, starting at the tail end of 2019.

Airtravel is what spread it, contrary to most people the outrbreaks on the East Coast of US came from Europe.

But now that it is everywhere the only way to suppress it is like a spreading fire that is already everywhere, suffocate it by removing the ability to spread locally!     That means all the necessary mitigation people seem to be against.   Stopping international travel, pointing fingers at China, Europe, WHO etc. etc. doesn't stop the crazy increase all across the US or the deaths that are coming this weekend.  There is always hope, but we as a country need to unify and start TODAY to put mitigation in place, it ain't going to be mitigated by WARP speed vaccination, it will be suffocated by unification of purpose of the people.

Things like large gatherings and cruise ships aren't going to help mitigation, nor people fighting mask rules on airplanes.

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

What a complete thread of a doom and gloom. Everything is ending. It's also incredible that I can go to work everyday with the public, shop in a busy Wal-Mart, fly in a full plane, etc and these are fine. Yet a cruise with similar precautions (or maybe even more) is a death trap.

 

It is only going poorly where the leadership can use science and learning to do the right thing.

As to Wall-Mart, Costco etc... those are essential services, flying local is essential infratructure.

Sports gathering, conventions and large gatherings and cruising not so much.  

I share the frustration of the total failure of national and local leadership over the last 9 months so nobody can do anything safely..  If only we had made right choices, learned, adjusted from our earlier mistake as we learned things would be so much better.

58 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

It is not only respiratory issues that preclude mask wearing. I know a person with throat tumors who cannot wear a mask. Many people have anxiety and cannot wear a mask. There are many others which do not make them any more susceptible to respiratory illness.

What is laughable—no, actually pathetic—is that people actually say all these people, along with all the vulnerable, should “just stay home”. For years? Try quarantining yourself—no company either—for a month and see how that works.

People with anxiety, I agree that is a disease, but like freedom and liberty is it okay for people with anxiety to bring their comfort cat, dog, lama on a airplane, or be allowed to be exempt from the best and easiest preventative measures to prevent the spread of a worldwide pandemic?

I am okay if vulnerable people choose to take risk, but that shouldn't give them the right to flout common rules.  Okay for older people that don't worry about the risk of drunk driving and dying be allowed to drink drive, or known AIDs infected to have unprotected sex, etc. etc.  

Remember for the most part cruising, going out out to eat, etc. are not life necessary activities.  People who do this need to be mindful, caring and considerate of others who also are doing this, not following simply caring for others because of your conditions doesn't fall into that IMHO

1 minute ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I am slowly starting to accept the likelihood that the cruise industry we knew prior to COVID-19 in the US is gone for good. My biggest concern right now is hoping Florida remains open like it is right now so you can still have some resemblance of a life here.
 

I understand the science view that wants to shut everything down. However, it is obvious a significant number of people, if not the majority of people, in this country will never go for that. I think that is the part a lot of people are missing. This country was founded and built upon the concept of freedom. Having a government telling you what you can and can’t do, even if it is supported by scientific data, is not what this country is about. 

Like pre 9/11, airtravel and cruise will be back, but different, never going to be same for years and years.

2 hours ago, stoneharborlady said:

Funny thing is, I dont mind the mask at all anymore.  I is no longer an inconvenience.  Just plain common sense.

I am sure those from tropics say same about shoes, coats etc... 

In one corner you have the thinking it's personal choice let them chose to freeze, die or kill someone else

In the other corner this isn't a personal choice, there will be a mandate.  

Do they have rules on cruise, I don't see this much different as the many other rules that we accept, why is this one for the health and wealth and well being of mankind so hard?

There won't be a cruise you need to worry about for the next couple games, bowl games, superbowl, but maybe worth asking on 2022, but again by then technology will have advanced so I'd say very likely 😉

38 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It is up to cruise lines themselves to hold the line. They are perfectly entitled to make mask-wearing mandatory in public spaces aboard. Just as they have rules about wearing shirts and shoes in dining venues.

 

 

And we know how that goes, but this is different!

Recalled those protocols like on airplanes that were a matter of "taste" were often not often enforced.

You can see airlines, even Uber when life and business continuity / survival are at hand, you are more strict.     The people resisting in the name of freedom and choice is so sad, like the 60' double talk of a couple people.  Dang if we need leaders to stand up everywhere instead of cowering back to the default petty positions.

2 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I would say any disease that interferes with one's breathing.

Those same people are probably the highest risk to be out and about... the logic of this is so laughable.

2 hours ago, sfaaa said:

Until you get on a cruise ship. Those irresistible fried, fatty, cholesterol infused food, sugary deserts and drink package are a health killer.

Goes well with the huge obesity in the US

A good NYT article on this:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/opinion/coronavirus-herd-immunity.html

We can already see two narratives;  New Zealand, Taiwan, China and many other countries, then most of the traditional Western cultures like US leading the other side of things.    

42 minutes ago, Lou33 said:

 

The virus and the economy go hand in hand.  If the virus is out of control, so will the economy.  If the virus is first brought under control, things can safely open.  It can be done.  Taiwan is an excellent example https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/21/asia/taiwan-model-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html

 

Many other countries are also doing very well.  Their leaders didn't blame it on China and they didn't need to.  They didn't lie about how serious it is.  They didn't "play it down".  They united their citizens instead of dividing them.  They listen to the most qualified health experts instead of promoting herd immunity.   Their countries are practically COVID free and things are getting back to normal there.  

Indeed, you can't have an robust economy with a pandemic, anyone who thinks they can ignore a pandemic and the economy can hum along is living in a alternative reality, but social media has really made that so easy.

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Very early into this pandemic, I was of the opinion that if we had really buckled down early, we could've stopped the spread of this thing, as they've done in a few other countries (and not all of them totalitarian; e.g., New Zealand). But I've accepted now that this was never likely in the US -- such a large country with so many points of entry, no government will to act early and decisively and a large population of scofflaws.

 

 

 

Sadly the US was once the greatest country the model of the world, but that comes with leadership, stewardship and a unifying leader.    This was an opportunity to show how America could unify and become great, but it is nothing but petty blaming going around.    

There is still hope as like life, it is never too late to change your attitude and approach.  

Cruise in 2022 probably, sadly. 

On 10/15/2020 at 11:52 AM, broberts said:

 

Exactly. Abandoning mask wearing, social distancing, hand washing, and contact minimization is not the way to go. But the GBD suggests an approach that is not physically or economically feasible.

Studies of the great flue pandemic has shown every city that embraced containment versus economy was far stronger economically after the pandemic passed then the cities that embraced the economy over the flu.   In those days each city was more like a country how transportation and economy work.

If anything science and history can tell us about the past, but the future is murkier, but wishing for things w/o understanding the lesson of the past is plain stupidity.

Cruising and the lack of it is just symbolic of enjoying life's many pleasures.

We are at a unique place in human history where we are choosing between the value of selfish pleasure versus a little sacrifice from all for a while so more people can enjoy a few more pleasures before they pass.   

Part of pleasure is capture memories in pictures, this year I sold my D4, Df, D810 and have my D5 for sell.   Keeping my lens as they don't depreciate and the next time I need them things all these tools will be even cheaper, for now my iPhone12 will be mroe than good enough upgrade from my iPhoneXs

I'll likely have to wait till 2022 to visit the big house, shoot my daughter, and take a cruise....

7 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

In his defense, the US is at 67.3/100K.  The UK at 63.9, and Spain and Brazil at 71.  I used the worldometers site, which shows deaths per capita. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

I don't think you can compare the US (or those other countries) and Sweden and say Sweden was worse off. 

How sad we are comparing and calling this not bad, your prospective will change if it by next year a neighbor, co-worker, family member is among the needless deceased. 

A study of cities 1918 that chose economy over containment showed those that chose containment had far stronger economic recovery than those that shunned disease mitigation because they curtailed the economy, they lost in the long run.

One of the most basic lessons in life.   I really wanted to cruise this coming year but nobody is willing to make the necessary sacrifices to make this possible and now it makes even 2022 look tenuous.   Silly short sighted leaders and people of weak spirit. 

With cases rising across Europe we all know how this will end, the cruise company and the cruisers are just hoping to be lucky and squeeze one more out before they party ends.

For those with WSJ subscriptions an excellent article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-long-shadow-of-the-pandemic-2024-and-beyond-11602860214

Basically anyone who thinks vaccine at WARP speed is going to change anything is blind and living in an alternative wishful reality.

The title says it all, BTW even after 2024 somethings will NEVER be the same.  

6 hours ago, sfaaa said:

But cruising has already resumed in Europe and Asia.

And we opened up restaurants, sorry what is your point?

It's like looking at the stock market in melt down and noting a few stocks went up today, step back, take a deep breath and notice not one or two trees but the whole forest before you open you type anything 😉

On 10/14/2020 at 5:48 AM, wolft927 said:

So, Wife and I cancelled out September cruise on the Glory and I found a Suite on the Glory on March 14th for $2k total. I took the risk and hope that it will be sailing. I really dont care if ports are canceled just want to get back cruising. Do you think Glory will sail in March?

What could possible go wrong, LOL

Sigh, even nudist who really enjoy their freedom and liberty know to wear the one thing that matters to care for their fellow humans, what is wrong with everyone 🙄

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-masks-nudist-resort-vacation-sandiego-reopen-coronavirus-11593705954

What a tragedy for all but the lawyers

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/us/grandfather-toddler-cruise-ship-death/index.html

On 10/10/2020 at 10:55 PM, broberts said:

What the declaration doesn't mention is that to reach herd immunity would likely result in some 2,000,000 deaths in the U.S. alone.

 

What the declaration glosses over is the actual cost of providing real protection for all of the at risk people. Consider that almost 40% of U.S. adults are obese, just one of the many COVID risk factors.

 

What the declaration glosses over is that adults and children with no preconditions can die from the disease. 

 

How many dead people are the signatories willing to accept. Will any of them volunteer?

 

It is easy for everyone who is impacted; lost job, modified work/leisure to see this as well worth it.

Ask any of the 200K in the US that died, or their fathers/mothers/childrens if it was worth it.

Or maybe in two years when we do reach herd immunity with total liberty and freedom the million that are no longer with us and likely 5-10 million close ones was the economy they have, the vacations taken those two years, the large bank account worth it.   

Of course the current containment in the US is terrible, we have sacrificed so much and achieved nothing thanks to terrible national, state, and local leadership and terrible citizenship fed be a few led by terrible national and state/local bad examples.  

Go look at some countries in the far east and after sacrifice they are reaping the rewards.     

It is like two little kids, one who really buckles down and studies instead of plays, the other who complains about what a sacrifice it is to his valuable childhood to have to study, pretends to study, and wonders what happened years later with his pretend sacrifice and whining.

17 hours ago, jagoffee said:

It sounds like you believe those that put down a deposit or pay in full with not get a refund or FCC.  I would not book a cruise if I believe as you say.  But I do not, nor do a lot of other people.

I can think of many who would have said the same about their money in Kodak or Enron, Nokia, etc. etc. or more recently GE and many others, someone always pays for others indiscretion.

2 hours ago, memoak said:

There is absolutely no time line that gets us all vaccinated by February. More likely by June or so. If all goes well

Agreed, no amount of warp speed changes the rate of science or the impact of biology,