Towel Critter

There was nothing wrong or confusing about your earlier posts. I understood what you were saying perfectly. Not that you don't have the right to dislike a port - but you weren't saying you did. Just that some others with a more authentic feel is what you prefer. That poster is argumenative on almost every thread, which is why I happily put them on my ignore list. Lol

 

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Thanks for the heads up. ;)

I'm not sure I can agree with your point about Grand Turk's beach being crowded. The beach is quite long and you can simply walk down further away and be all by yourself - you can always walk far enough away to not have the ship in front of you.

 

I don't personally go on cruises with the expectation of exploring the ports/islands much. I will at certain spots - did the train at St. Kitts and various island tours. But when cruising, I'm more focused on activities that I want to do. I do make an effort to explore when visiting something new, though. But if you don't swim and like shopping, I can see how these "cruise ship centric" ports don't appeal much to you.

 

One reason I quite like Nassau is that it offers all of the above. Great beaches, shopping, and lots of activities. I'll be in Nassau next Friday, actually (not on a cruise).

Sorry to get off subject, but I have to ask. What was your impression of the scenic railroad excursion on St. Kitts? I ask because we are seriously considering St. Kitts and the train for our next cruise. We were supposed to visit St. Kitts on a previous cruise, but wind prevented us from docking. Sigh.

 

Yes, you are right that the beach at GT is long and the ship doesn't block the view further on down. I had forgotten that in my comment. You might wonder how I could forget that having been there multiple times. I guess the reason is because we've never been to that beach as a destination, but have just stopped by there a couple times after returning from an excursion. I just remember thinking, man, this place is crowded and closed in! We really should have wandered farther down. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I've made a couple more in the past believe it or not. ;)

I would agree with the "bread & butter" being new cruisers. I know when I looked for my first cruise I selected Carnival due to the lower price. I did not want to spend a lot in case I didn't enjoy cruising. As you can tell from my signature. I found that I enjoyed it very much! :D

I've never thought about Carnival as a "gateway" cruise line, but now that you've mentioned it, I suppose for many it is. Good thing for Carnival that a significant portion of those first time cruisers stick around. Ironically, my first cruise was with RCCL and I wasn't sold on cruising after that first cruise. It was just okay, but my second cruise, on the Conquest, is the one that hooked me. I really enjoy the Conquest class ships, not too big and not too small. Part of that, I suppose, is that on my second cruise I knew more of what to expect and felt more comfortable. That first cruise, my new at the time wife, booked, her having cruised a few times before. I didn't do any research and was clueless as to what cruising was all about.

I thought your point was pretty straight forward. You aren't a big fan of the new "cruise ports" which are specifically developed just for cruise passengers. ie. Amber Cove, Labadee, etc.

 

For us, I like a good mix. Grand Turk is a beach day, a fun one. And it's cool hanging on the beach so close to the ship. And the view from the ship over the island is really awesome since it's such a small island. Our last Carnival cruise went to San Juan, HMC, Grand Turk, and St. Thomas. It was a perfect mix, IMO.

Thank you! I didn't think my point was all that complicated either. I'm glad you do enjoy Grand Turk, it just doesn't appeal to me. It's a good thing that we all have different tastes and opinions. It keeps the world interesting.:) Interestingly, the thing you like most about GT, the beach by the ship, is the thing I dislike most about it. Too crowded for me and closed in feeling (since the ship blocks out the horizon). I do like a beach day on occasion - if it isn't overcrowded - but I prefer exploring an island, it's culture, history, architecture, flora and fauna, etc... There is certainly a little of that on GT, but the quaint little town/museum doesn't take very long to explore and once you've done it a couple of times it loses its interest. The lighthouse is an okay point of interest, but same thing goes for it. I'm honestly glad you and others seem to like GT though. I just wish it didn't pop up on most every Eastern itinerary. We opt for mostly Eastern itineraries (just a preference thing) and I'm pretty sure we've been to GT each of our last four cruises, plus a couple of times prior to that. Admittedly, I'd probably enjoy GT more if I were a snorkeler. Unfortunately, my wife doesn't swim - is a bit hydrophobic - and I won't go off and do things on my own, leaving her behind. But that's my problem and no one else's, as is my dislike of GT I guess. Oh, btw, my wife dislikes GT probably even more than I do. She loves shopping and there isn't much of that on GT, just Buffet's place and a few detached from the ship "Fun Shops." Okay, I've rambled enough. :o

I don't think the bigger ship strategy has much, if anything, to do with "new cruisers vs return cruisers." It has to do with the fact that cruisers, in general, even regular/repeat cruisers, prefer the larger ships with more to do. And Carnival is quickly getting left behind and their strategy of smashing more people on the same tired small ship design isn't going to work. Making the same ships slightly bigger, making the venues smaller and then adding more and more guests sucks.

 

 

Also consider Carnivals price point. They fill their ships because they offer a lower price. For Carnival, that kind of sucks. Who actually talks much about Carnival's ships? So it becomes "Allure, or Escape, or whatever other big awesome ship is XX amount, is it worth spending XX more than just going on Carnival?" Most people I know, that's the discussion they have. Do we "settle for Carnival to save money" or spend more to go on the better ship? The itinerary generally seems secondary - and for good reason. How many visit a hotel, or Disney, or wherever - it doesn't move, it doesn't go to new places. As long as a ship goes somewhere, I think most don't care too much for the variety. I could visit the same ports over and over and often do, and while I may select something with new ports, all else being equal, it doesn't matter much to me as I enjoy all the ports.

 

I think Carnival would like to actually compete with the larger ships that draw guests willing to pay a higher base fare.

I'm right there with you on the strategy of building slightly larger ships, decreasing the size of public spaces, and drastically increasing the amount of passengers. I'm not sure that will be appealing to people on a long term basis. We'll find out I guess.

I think that Carnival's bread and butter are the short 3 and 4 day cruises. They are catering to new cruisers who want to get a taste of cruising and since its a short cruise, do not mind a high bill for 3 or 4 days.

 

However, they also need us oldies to fill the ships. We do cruise more fequently and our bills are probably lower per cruise but overall we may be spending just as much per year on cruising. Maybe more. We cruise 5-7 times a year vs the newbies who may cruise only once or twice a year. We continue to cruise because we love cruising, not for the small perks we get. We appreciate them but the ones we enjoy really do not cost Carnival any money. Boarding early and being able to access our cabin upon boarding are our favorite perks.

 

As far as the itinerairies, there are only so many islands in the Caribbean. Some are more cooperative with the cruise lines/tourists and some are not as much so I think that goes into the choice of itineraries too.

I think I can agree with all you've said, except on limited ports in the Caribbean. There are LOTS of ports a smaller ship could visit. Unfortunately, mega ships are the trend, thus indeed limited ports of call. You certainly may be right about some ports having no interest in the cruise industry. I wouldn't know. But it seems many, if not most, Caribbean island nations would benefit greatly from the money they would gain.

I fail to see how that has anything to do with ports or ship size. On size, Royal still has the largest ships and NCL some whoppers, too. They also have private islands.

 

My thinking on ship size (and I may be wrong) is that big ships with lots of bells and whistles appeals more to new cruiser than those with lots of cruises under their belts, and that huge ships are limited in the ports they can dock at, thusly Carnival is willing to turn off SOME of their loyal customers in an effort to gain new ones. Just a thought. I could be totally wrong, but that was my thinking.

I agree. I also love San Juan. I enjoy most any port. Of course some more than others. And while I do enjoy the cruise self-contained ports, there are alot of other options rather than wearing the hell out of GT.

 

As for Tortola, I know NCL goes there but not Carnival. I also wish they would go to Antigua more. I didn't realize how lucky we were when we caught it on an 8 day itinerary a few years ago.

 

Oh well, just thoughts. Have a good one!

 

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I was thinking I went to Tortola with Carnival quite a few years ago, but I have sailed with NCL once. Perhaps I was confused on that. They all start running together a little bit after a while. You made me chuckle with your "wearing the hell out of GT" line.:D I couldn't have said it better.

What ever strategy they are using, they sail virtually full every time.

 

I think Carnival values all cruisers and each loyalty level brings different things. The newer cruiser is still learning and in most cases playing it safe with Carnival excursions, on board purchases etc.

 

But they also value the Diamond and Platinum guests because of the repeat revenue that we bring them. I don't care too much about any loyalty perks, because I love cruising and will continue to do so.

 

As a Diamond cruiser, I would think that I'm their bread and butter since I cruise 3 or 4 times a year, as compared to a Red or Gold member who has only cruised a hand full of times.

Yes, Carnival seems to be enjoying a peak time right now. Good for them. I'm not sure it's good for us though, except maybe stock holders.:)

So... some of you are saying repeat customers spend less on a cruise and others are saying the opposite. Obviously, some repeat customers do cruise with an open pocketbook, while others are looking to keep cost down. I'd love to see some statistics and find out which is more common. I doubt any of us are privy to that sort of statistic. I at least wouldn't know where to look for it.

 

Thanks for all input, opinions, and thoughts thus far. I'm sure we won't settle this with any certainty. It's just something I was thinking about, and it's interesting to discuss.

Maybe you should read back over my post. I never claimed that you said there are fake islands.

 

Here's what I said (quoting your words).

 

 

Also, in regards to Grand Turk being included in many of their itineraries...don't you think that's based on feedback, surveys, statistics, or what have you that Carnival uses to determine the overall interest their passengers have with certain ports of call?

I don't want to argue wording. I'll just say you win. How 'bout dat? :) But no, I do not think itineraries are chosen based on the things you mentioned, at least not primarily. I think they are chosen based on profit margin, which is higher at a cruise line built and run port, like the one at Grand Turk. That isn't a slam at Carnival. Of course they are in business to make money and to make as much as they can. It's a little unfortunate for repeat cruisers though, at least those that are pretty much limited to Caribbean sailings.

I'll say that Carnival gets more income pp from new cruisers, say people who've cruised maybe up to 3x, than from persistant repeat cruisers like myself. I don't think the itineraries are that important to their "bread and butter". From a purely business point of view, the newly cruising are more apt to spend more on excursions, photos, drinks, etc. than a long time repeater.

So you believe Carnival's main interest is in new cruisers? I take it that is what you meant. If so, I agree itinerary becomes of lesser importance. I wonder if this is a sound strategy over a long period of time? I don't pretend to know... just wondering. My initial thought is it is not. I could certainly be wrong about that though.

Definitely new cruisers . The eon cruiser knows all the ends and outs on how to save money while the new cruisers don't know squat, except how to receive a high sail and sign bill at the end of their cruise :p

So, in your opinion, is their strategy to constantly woo new cruisers primarily, with perhaps little interest in retaining those new cruisers for more than two or three cruises? In other words, do you think Carnival prefers a high turnover when it comes to customers?

In your opinion, or in a few cases based on knowledge - accurate or not - is Carnival's bread and butter repeat customers or new customers? I got to thinking about that because of the apparent constant increase in ship size and thus decrease in the amount of ports that can be visited. This, in my mind, seems to cater more to new cruisers who haven't yet grown weary of the same three or four Caribbean itineraries. On the other hand, new cruisers become experienced cruisers over time (at least some of them) and they too will grow tired of visiting the same few islands over and over. Just something to ponder and perhaps discuss. My fear is it will get to the point for us Carnival loyalists where our only option is a handful of cruise line run ports. Do you think that is where we are headed, or do you see something different down the road? Discuss.

 

Yes, I do realize there are other lines that have more varied itineraries, but that doesn't pertain to my question and is a different discussion for a different day. I also realize Carnival has "Journeys" cruises on occasion, but those aren't available on a constant basis.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Please, keep it friendly.:)

I'm also not that big of a fan of GT. I do wish they would swap it out for somewhere else more often. It's on almost every Southern and Eastern route.

Exactly. I wish they would swap it out some with HMC or even Key West. It seems GT appears on Eastern itineraries four or five times more often than either of those two. I have noticed San Juan is showing up on itineraries more than it used to. That's a good thing, imo. It has become one of my favorite ports of call. I wonder why Carnival doesn't do Tortola more often than they do? It's only a stone's throw from St. Thomas, yet they rarely visit it. Well, to answer my own question, I'm sure the reason is profit related. As best as I can remember (it's been several years since I was there), Tortola isn't dotted with "Diamond International" stores. I don't recall being herded through a big Dufry store there either. I suppose ships will keep growing and the variety of itineraries shrinking. That's bidness I guess. :(

I think the "American Pickers" should make an offer on it. It would look great sitting behind their Iowa store. You listening, Mike and Frank? ;-)

So you're saying Grand Turk is a "fake port," little more than an "extension of the ship," and lacks "real history?" The Turks & Caicos Islands were used as a regular shipping lane for Columbus' fleet after he first made landfall in the New World and began traveling back & forth from Spain. Columbus himself set foot on the islands. Some experts believe that a shipwreck discovered off the coat of one of the islands could very well be the Pinta. Some of the world's most well known pirates used the islands as their home base, including Capt. Kidd and possibly William Teach, better known as Blackbeard. In more recent history, the area was used as a "splash down" zone for early NASA missions. Sure, the beach near the Grand Turk pier is now full of bars, but you can't argue the history of those islands. One only has to look for it.

I'm speaking of the port area, which most never venture beyond. I'm aware of the pirate/NASA stuff. The problem with Grand Turk, for ME, is that you can take in most of the island in an hour or so, yet Carnival includes this stop on most every Eastern Caribbean itinerary. It's unavoidable for those of us who prefer the Eastern Caribbean. I've been there too many times and saw all there was to see my first visit. This isn't the case with islands like St. Thomas, St. Maarten, Puerto Rico, St. Kitts, etc... where you can see something new every visit. But, yes, the port on Grand Turk is cruise line built and fake. Read back over my post; I never said the island is fake. There are no fake islands (in the Caribbean), just some fake ports. I prefer real, naturally evolved ports.

Have you discovered this site yet? http://www.portevergladeswebcam.com/ You can watch your future ship sail away every week.

I don't have a problem with Nassau. The locals may sometimes be a little too pushy, but they aren't as bad as some (Jamaica anyone?). The town has some wear on it, but at least it is a real town and a real port with real history. Grand Turk and Amber Cove on the otherhand... well, I'm not much for fake ports. If Carnival was going to drop a port, I'd prefer it be one or both of those two. They aren't much more than extensions of whatever ship you happen to be on. Of course, that's NEVER going to happen... higher profit margins for the participating cruise lines there.

We couldn't wait to reach platinum and take advantage of the free laundry. Funny thing is, now that is available to us, we never use it. Go figure. :-) I believe our thinking was that with free laundry we could pack fewer clothes. Hasn't happened. lol

I find that the best price for any particular cruise is about 60 days out, unless that particular cruise is filling up fast. As others have said, be flexible. I pick out maybe a half dozen cruises, put them on my favorites bar, and check them daily. This is how I know 60 days out is a crucial time. You won't always get a deal. Sometimes they just aren't there. And they are fewer and farther between than they used to be. But if you follow them closely, you might just find one. My way isn't the only way, and maybe not even the best way, but it has resulted in some pretty good deals for my wife and I. Good luck and happy cruising! Oh, and forget about peak times as far as finding a deal. Look at Fall cruises through early Winter, late January and February. But be aware that Fall cruises bring a certain risk for Hurricanes and Tropical storms. Everything has a price, even good deals.

 

edit: Another tidbit of wisdom. Don't finance a vacation. If you don't have the money, wait until you do.

I've seen so many threads on CC over the years like this. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. I would never consider buying "fine" jewelry on a cruise ship because of the many threads I've read on this topic. OP, I hope you get this resolved. I'm sorry it happened. Thanks for posting your story. Maybe it will prevent someone from being taken like you obviously were.

Gratuity should be based on quality not quantity.

I'm not sure that quality and quantity can be separated when it comes to service. If a waitperson only refills my glass once, but does it expertly, should he/she get the same tip as a waitperson who refills my glass multiple times and also does it expertly? The answer to that is, if you only desired your glass to refilled once, then yes. If you really wanted your glass refilled twice, but only had it refilled once, then no.:)

I have sailed on Carnival and MSC. The MSC Poesia had its strong points, like better entertainment (by far), but in general I find the food to be better on Carnival. I also prefer the balcony cabins on Carnival. They are larger, have more storage space, and are laid out better. In fact, for my tastes, entertainment is perhaps the only area where MSC exceeds Carnival. In all fairness, our one MSC cruise was about four years ago. A lot has changed with Carnival in that time. Perhaps it has with MSC as well. Pizza? Carnival wins that one hands down, imo. The food was decent on the Poesia, but variety was lacking, especially when it comes to desserts. We did enjoy our cruise on the Poesia though and I would certainly give MSC a second chance. Overall though, it's Carnival for me.

Yet another reason to purchase travel insurance: aging parents. My wife and I had to cancel three of four booked cruises, all three within three days of sailing, during a period of about a year and half. The first time my mother became gravely ill and was hospitalized three days before our upcoming cruise. The other two times my wife's mother became seriously ill several days before time to sail and was hospitalized. Ironically, all three booked cruises were to take us to Aruba and Curacao for the first time. We've decided to not try for that itinerary again. Did we lose a boat load of money? Nope. We had travel insurance and recouped all monies all three times. Had we not planned ahead and gotten insurance, yep, we would have lost a boat load of money. Is it worth the risk to save a hundred bucks or so and not get insurance. Nope. Not for anyone, imho. If you can't afford travel insurance, you really can't afford to cruise, even though you may be doing it anyway.