Skipper Tim

9 hours ago, Stockjock said:

Over on the MSC boards, they were wanting to take a long time with my refund, so I disputed it with my credit card company (American Express in this case) and got the money back in about 2 weeks.  I felt that I had done my job, but they hadn't done theirs in terms of a timely repayment.  Looks like the cruise line agreed to a quick refund rather than fight with the credit card company.

Yes, it may come to that. My understanding is that the refund offer is from RCI so regardless of the fate of Pullmantur in the Spanish courts, refunds applied for by the deadline (20th Sep?) should eventually arrive. If RCI is not involved in the 'new Pullmantur', I would suspect that all monies paid to Pullmantur and not converted to a voucher or refund applied for by the deadline will be wiped out along with any shares in Pullmantur. 

Talking of MSC, I am annoyed with them because I reached 'Gold' status (with pin to prove it) then had my status and points wiped out under the new scheme because it is a few years since I sailed with them. Thankfully, I managed to get a status match to Celebrity before that happened and which still remains in place. So I have a high status on a cruise line I have never been on and zero status on the one I earned it on! I considered a future cruise voucher for Celebrity but none of their repos appealed :-( 

I am sure there will be plenty of fish in the sea (cruise bargains) over the next couple of years..... 

1 hour ago, aussie cruzer said:

I took the refund option from Rcl and was told up to 80 business days for refund.

Ditto. We haven't cancelled the flights yet - we are hoping BA will do that and save us the £35 fee each. 

@Smurf2017many thanks for sharing that.

If the insider's advice is to take the refund, it looks like that is what we should do. I will consult with our party. As @Stockjock says, if Pullmantur come back resembling anything like the old Pullmantur, we can book again.

Our cruise is in March and if there is little prospect of re-starting operations in November, then there is little chance until next summer :-( 

@Smurf2017, Very interesting! Well the obvious one for me is will the current itineraries from 15th November be operating as advertised? And if so, on what ships? Or when will we know such information? That would be great, many thanks for asking me. 

On a more positive note, I had a reply from Pullmantur this morning for my request for any information. Here it is.

Good Morning, We inform you that Pullmantur's intention with this reorganization is to be able to operate in the future in the same way that we have been doing up to now. With the same itineraries. To do any management regarding your reservation, you have to contact your travel agency and it can inform you of the different options you have. Thank you very much,

Pagos Venta Directa Grupo Pullmantur Calle Mahonia, 2. Planta 5ª. Campo de las Naciones. 28043 Madrid Phone: 900 835 055  ventadirectapagos@pullmantur.es

Well done Smurf2017 - good work! It gives me hope that we may yet get to sail on Pullmantur. I am hoping very much that Pullmantur's itineraries will simply be reinstated from mid-November on different ships. That would be a far more attractive proposition than anything RCI or Celebrity currently have on offer - to us at least.

We have not cancelled our flights to Dubai yet.   

Thanks for that Biker19. 

It is little weird that Pullmantur and their agents Worldwide continue to sell cruises on all three of these ships. People right now are choosing cabins on ships currently being dismantled on a beach in Turkey. 

5 hours ago, roeco9084 said:

Its odd Horizon went from Piareus to Limassol and back to Piareus. Not something a ship heading for scrap would do very strange indeed.

It is very odd for any cruise ship with no guests and a skeleton crew to make a week's round trip from one part of the EU to another. This is not the case of repatriating crew. 

Given Cyprus's geographical position, perhaps drug running, people smuggling or some other cargo necessitating a one-off private charter? 

Monarch and Sovereign have now been joined by Carnival Fantasy with reportedly another 6 cruise ships on their way to Aliaga. It should be a cruise ship theme park not a scrap yard.

7 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Someone hired her as a ferry?

Or had to pay in cash in Cyprus?

Sovereign didn't go quietly! 

I have always wanted one of those ships' horns for when motorists intimidate me on the road on my bicycle. Probably a bit too heavy to carry I know but possibly worth it. 

5 minutes ago, Smurf2017 said:

 

Do you have any contacts out there that could at least tell us a little more about the particular part of the port that Horizon moored at? 

Horizon is underway again - back to Piraeus! What is going on? A pleasure trip for a prospective or current) new owner?

47 minutes ago, Smurf2017 said:

 

Did you ever hear back from the photographer in Piraeus Tim? I didn't. I would love to know why Horizon docked there and whether she was stripped of valuables as were the other two in Naples.

No, I didn't and would also like to know. 

Horizon is currently refuelling at anchor off Limassol (a fuel tanker is alongside). As Limassol is around three times the distance from Piraeus as Aliaga - what is she doing and where to next??

As far as I understand the existing Pullmantur ownership has been wiped-out hence the grab of ships, crew and future guests by Royal Caribbean. All that is left is the brand name, the guests who have not yet 'jumped ship', the Spain-based employees (currently on Government-paid furlough) and the infrastructure of booking agents and partners around the World. That should be enough to bring in new money to relaunch Pullmantur.

I think the whole cruise industry is in a very difficult position as cruise ships now have an image of breading grounds for Covid (among other diseases). Without vastly improved air-conditioning systems which could put many existing ships out of commercial viability to retro-fit - especially the latest mega monsters - I can't see that changing. The mandatory SOLAS safety regulations, despite being announced 20 years before, forced many older cruise ships, to retire rather than incur the expense of compliance. The most famous example was the QE2 but there were many more at the time. 

I can imagine a 'best endeavours' approach will be made to give confidence for new bookings but another high-profile outbreak on a cruise ship could be the death-knell to the cruise industry as we know it. I have read the 30 page certification document introduced for Turkish hotels and many Turkish hotels have simply decided not to re-open this year because of the severe capacity constraints and lack of self-service makes them commercially unviable (without several-fold rate increases).

Eventually, I would expect a new safety standard for cruise ships to minimise the chance of an outbreak of infectious diseases - something cruise lines have been in denial about for decades. This may even lead to a return to smaller ships - as each extra guest sharing air in a confined space multiplies the probability of some sort of outbreak - i.e  that is an exponentially increasing risk with no. of guests. When the numbers of those affected have been small, the lines have always blamed the guests. Now in the Covid era, mathematical models could show how likely an outbreak is according to the size and design of a ship even after all the mitigating efforts have been made. Small is good, more public space per guest is good as is constant fresh air. Buffets are bad as are gatherings of large number of people, e.g. main restaurants, large bars and theatres. 

The naturalists say that pandemics are likely to increase in frequency as humans take over the natural habitat of other species and we are exposed to ancient diseases that we have never developed any immunity to. These issues are not likely to go away. 

In the meantime, I would expect the new Pullmantur to rent some third-hand smallish ship rescued from the brink of scrap, refitted  and run at reduced capacity for the foreseeable future. Perhaps it could be the Horizon, but as Stockjock says, there are plenty more ships in the sea. 

And, if you have the stomach for it, here is a video from the bridge of the Monarch as she is beached.

https://youtu.be/yPpY9EMSWeM 

"Another vessel which was part of the Pullmantur fleet named Horizon is just one step behind and also set to be scrapped. The ship is current off the Greek coast after being stripped of all important items. The ship will soon join Monarch and Sovereign on the beach at Aliaga."

From:

https://www.cruisehive.com/two-former-royal-caribbean-cruise-ships-beached-ready-for-scrapping/40839

Someone representing Pullmantur posted the above photo, cropped a little, on their LinkedIn page yesterday with the words (I have omitted the Spanish version),

"Today the Monarch and Sovereign reach the end of their journey. A long time of sailing full of joy, emotions, conversations, stories ... a journey full of life; a great place for family reunions, vacations that thousands of passengers dream of; cozy homes for the large family of crew members: without them, our passengers' experience would never have been the same. Monarch and Sovereign, you will always be part of our company's history. We continue to work to get back in operation as soon as possible. This is our greatest desire."

https://www.linkedin.com/organization-guest/company/pullmantur?challengeId=AQFizcUndzZTOQAAAXN_4XKAqjX3ZC1e1-E13Lgyxcq8bqKjd_ISvSprFz80UhIoYt6bkuqoY7oBGUC-ifJAlNejlhNquHQ3JA&submissionId=9a9f37b7-0da2-2416-78fa-37acb0ce612a

The last part is the most significant to those of us holding reservations. 

2 hours ago, pirate4me2 said:

Looks like maybe Sovereign is heading in to join her.

 

I think the 'beaching crew' may have just being having a test drive.

Horizon appears to be meeting with Celebrity Constellation near Piraeus - the kiss of death or hello to a new operator? 

I see that Wikipedia's Pullmantur entry has been updated to say there is only one ship left in its fleet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullmantur_Cruises

I have now had the email from my cruise agent in the US and contains the same wording from Royal Caribbean as posted my Smurf2017 on 13th July above. Clicking on the form link and then the terms and conditions there are these words (Google translation):

"If you have a qualifying cruise booking that Pullmantur has not yet canceled and you accept the Offer, your acceptance of the Offer will result in the cancellation of your cruise booking with Pullmantur."

At present, Pullmantur have only cancelled cruises to 15th November (ours is 14th March), so we too are going to wait and see if Pullmantur 'reorganises' and makes their own offer before the deadline for accepting the RCL offer (20th September). 

Horizon has left Piraeus :-( 

A photo of the three Pullmantur ships together and being picked apart on the beach of Aliaga would be worth a fortune for decades to come. A sign of our times. 

How sad. I thought Horizon might have escaped that fate and seen out her days in the Greek islands. 

Carnage! 

Tide forecast for Aliağa (it peaks 20th - 23rd):

https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Aliaga-1/tides/latest

1 minute ago, Smurf2017 said:

 

We're in a similar situation with only €100 each in jeopardy. Let's see what develops by the September 20 deadline, but I'll certainly be trying to push my other half to hang on for the phoenix to do its thing for all the same reasons that you have stated. Really it's Pullmantur or nothing for me at the moment. Meanwhile, it's only a shortish drive across the border to Seville for us and the best tapas bars and flamenco spots going for our money.

Don't make me jealous. I used to have a house in Torrox, Andalucia. Then the tapas were free but I had to get drunk to have a good meal :-) 

"Pullmantur or nothing" - totally agreed. We will wait. 

57 minutes ago, Smurf2017 said:

 

Tim. I replied to my contact at Pullmantur asking if they had any idea how long the reorganization request would take to get a decision. Here is their reply:

 

"In your case it's maybe better to wait. However I think it might take some time to see what will happen. First of all the courts need to assign an administrator to be on the head of Pullmantur and then our president and his team need to present the plan of reorganization and then they decide whether there is a way to continue or not. I haven't heard nothing about the administrator yet and I am afraid if we don't get him this month, in August it won't happen either, because you know how it's the August here, nothing is done in August. That is why I think it will take time.

The only thing that surprised me, is that erte (Spanish furlough) is approved by the government untill 30.9. and what I've got from HR it says I am off until end of August with a possibility of prolongation until 30.9.

I thought it was strange to keep this window a little bit opened just in case.

 

So, what I wanted to say is that nobody knows how long it will take to have some answers, and especially with COVID-19 situation, I think a lot of companies are waiting for the same thing. However you never know if there is someone with connections or if they decide to give priority to big companies...."

Very interesting and thanks for sharing that. 

I won't be accepting the Royal Caribbean offer, if it is forthcoming, but rather wait to see if the reborn Pullmantur offer anything instead. Knowing we could be in for a long wait is helpful. My party have only risked US$60 each on the cruise anyway but I was looking forward to the Spanish vibe & wine, the Arabian & Suez itinerary, low solo-occupancy supplements, all-inclusive drinks and tips and having the best accommodation I have ever had on a ship. I have ploughed through the RC & Celebrity itineraries and nothing remotely competes, even with a 25% bribe. 

If Pullmantur 'reorganizes' and makes an offer to its previously booked clients, I will be all ears as I am sure their main market - the Spanish - will be.