JimmyVWine

For sure the sister ships to Sun will follow the same path. But then what? Looking at the Grand Class ships, they started in 1998 with the launching of the Grand, but along the way, variations occurred. Coral and Island were "two-offs" launched in the middle of the Grand Class builds, as were Diamond and Sapphire, though those latter two ships had more in common with the other Grand Class ships than they had differences. The Royal Class ships have remained fairly consistent, with venue changes here and there. But they are more or less the same ships with modifications and enhancements. But here's the thing. They ended that build after only 5 ships. In the "Grand Class Era" Princess launched 7 very similar ships from Grand through Ruby, launched two (Sapphire and Diamond) that were close to those others but a bit different, and two (Coral and Island) that were very different. So after one or two more Sphere Class ships, then what. And no, I don't think they will go smaller. Not a chance. But are cabanas and Signature Suites permanent fixtures? Has Princess built its last aft-facing suite? Will every ship have a ropes course? Princess has the luxury of having so many ships that it can (and should) provide choices. When you put 5 ships in Alaska, you can vary the offerings. When you put 6 ships in the Caribbean, you can vary the offerings. But will they? Or will they chase away all of the people (many of whom post here) who won't sail in anything other than an aft-facing cabin?

Well, the solution is an easy one, though I suspect that Princess will not follow it, which is to implement dramatic, industry-following changes on some ships, but not all. Implement a class-based system on some ships, but not all. Put go-kart tracks, (or whatever that is on Deck 20) on some ships, but not all. Eliminate aft-facing cabins on some ships, but not all. Etc. And of course, until the existing ships are retired, there will be choices, and that will buy at least 10 more years. The real test will be to see if the next 5 ships that follow Sun will all feature the same changes or if they roll out a blend of new and familiar.

Catch up, or succumb?

Agree. But from the wake view areas at the stern to the Reserve Cabana deck space mid-ship to the special area of the Sanctuary, it does seem more spread out.

I have no fears. If and when I book on this class-based ship, I will always book Reserve or Signature.

But Princess isn’t building a Haven area. It is building an experiential upgrade. It actually would be better if it did build a geographic upgrade area like the Haven.

Correct. The testing protocol is only for cruises departing from Piraeus. And Princess isn’t different on this point. It is baffling how this is the rule, but it is and Princess is not to blame here.

That’s what I am wondering. Take the inaugural (curiosity and “I have to be first”) people out of the equation and I can’t see why anyone would pay MORE to sail on this ship as part of the 87%. Would it be great to be part of the 13%? Heck yeah. But pay a premium to be part of the second class? I don’t see that as being an attractive option as long as one of the other many ships remains an option. $700 for a week in an Inside on a Royal Class ship or $1,300 for a week on a Sphere Class ship. Hard to see how they sell these cabins. The price will have to level set.

Was that four years from the type of press announcement Princess did yesterday or four years from when the first ship within a ship concept set sail? If it is the latter, then we have a 2 years plus 4 years buffet. Fingers crossed.

This isn’t correct. There aren’t many mass market US lines that depart from Piraeus. Most visit Athens as a port of call. But I did an extensive search of all cruise ships departing from Piraeus after 9/1 and looked at their websites and Roll Calls and all seem to be consistent with what Princess is requiring.

Actually, I think it is you who is missing the point. I don’t think that there is anyone here who is arguing against the idea that the 13% are going to love the ship within a ship paradigm. What’s not to love? And exactly for the reasons you stated. You are 100% right. But the point being made here is that the 87% are going to suffer the consequences of your enjoyment. MDR selections will be downgraded. You will have lobster. They will have orange roughy. You will have Shafer Red Shoulder Ranch. They will have Yellow Tail. You will have easy access to lounge chairs by the pool. They will have more people competing for less square footage of poolside comfort. I haven’t seen a single post here from anyone who has sailed on another cruise line that has a ship within a ship model who had said: “Nothing to fear. The standard cruise experience will not suffer from this change.” Not one. So yes, the 13% are going to love this. Give me $10,000 and I will plan a Disney World vacation second to none. Give me $4,000 and I will be left planning a stressful trip where I will accomplish half of what I am used to. Seems like Princess is angling for the same experience. Thankfully it will take at least a decade for this new model to supplant the old unless they retrofit the Grand and Royal Class ships but I don’t see that happening.

Wow. Is that a cabin or a cell?

The problem with their excuse is that the ships operate on a closed system. When the ship leaves port, it has what it has. The idea of a constantly changing menu is a fiction. Sure, it might change week to week, but even that is a stretch. But not day to day. You could go to a restaurant and the sommelier might tell you that they have a wine that they just got in that isn't on the list. Happens all the time. But that is impossible on a cruise ship. Especially with the lower end stuff that they have by the roomful.

A. Not really true. My purchasing has not revealed a noticeable price increase, (though shipping costs have increased, but that isn't really an issue for Carnival Corp.) And the volume by which Carnival purchases wine (the single biggest purchaser of wine in the world) means that they have strong buying leverage. B. Price increases have nothing whatsoever to do with Plus being relegated to "Red or White" with no mention of what is being served. The ship knows what it has in stock and could easily tell the customer. It's not as if the lower end wines are hiding under someone's bed and they just found a bottle. The lower end wines are held in greater inventory than the higher end wines. I promise you that there are more bottles of $6 Sauvignon Blanc on the ship than there are $45 bottles of Chardonnay. But they have no problem listing the latter on printed lists while they refuse to list the former.

I don't think anyone is complaining about people getting more when they pay more. The concern is that the rest will get less, but pay the same (or more). Look to "Plus" versus "Premier" and what that did to wine. No one begrudges the people paying for Premier getting what they are getting. But it cannot be denied that people who are paying for Plus are getting less than they did before Premier was introduced. The introduction of the higher end module caused the lesser priced module to be downgraded. So there is precedent for the fear.

That is true. But as noted earlier, it seems impossible to stretch the public venues by 23%. They might be able to find some additional space here and there. But ships get bigger by going up (hence the 21 decks) not by going out. Still need to pass through the Panama Canal.

If the way that Princess treated wine service after the rollout of "Premier" is any indication, in the exclusive dining venues it will be: "Here is tonight's wine list" whereas in the MDRs it will be: "We have red or white."

Understood. But I doubt that the naming of a ship will be influenced by the cartoon depiction of the shape of a star when in fact the true celestial shape of a star is spherical. Seems directly on brand.

"You're so lucky to be staying in one or "Reserve" level cabins. It would be awful to have to dine with the masses. And how did you enjoy your reserved bar stool in the Pirates Cove before dinner?"

So how is it that the Sun qualifies as a sphere? The Sun is a star.

Again, how is a ball of burning gas not a sphere? The poster to whom you replied suggested the names "Star or Sea" and you said that neither of those things are spherical. And I'm curious to know why a Star is not a sphere?

How is a big ball of burning gas not a sphere?

Or will they become "Signature Suites" as on Sun, those are simply MS size cabins that buy up to Full Suite perks.

I suspect that this is exactly what they will do. They have to keep the Sanctuary a desirable place to hang out in order to keep people interested in paying for it. It has to generate revenue to be sustainable. So they can't just leave scraps for the masses. But even with a "half and half" split, they have decreased opportunity for those who are used to having things a certain way. I don't think for one second that PCL is going to eliminate the current experience. But it does seem that they are going to make it a bit more difficult to obtain. As I said earlier. Downward pressure on existing venues.

In essence, problem solving. Big, expensive issues confronting a major corporation that need to be brought under control. And lots and lots of legal brief editing in cases headed to State Supreme Courts and Federal Courts of Appeal. With an occasional U.S. Supreme Court brief thrown in now and then.