Rhine/Danube River Levels

[steamboats]

You obviously have good experience with this river system and was wondering if this is an extreme year for low water levels. I was also thinking that travelling April/May/June the likelihood of low river levels may be less of a problem.

 

So in the reverse situation if the river levels are extremely high could there still be a problem? Do the boats have the capacity to take on more ballast to sit lower to get under some of the very low bridges? I know some have upper deck adjustments. Just a thought.

 

It was a very unusal weather situtation and it was the lowest river level since 2003. Usually in September / October you should have enough water.

 

Usually I´d say late May/ early June might be the best months. Anyway we had years when even these months have been tricky. In April, especially early April, you can still face spring floods from the snow melt.

 

Yes, high water does even cause more problems. The ships can´t get much deeper into the water (actually on the lowest deck you are submerged by 2/3 at least). With high water low bridges are causing the problems.

 

steamboats

[pacmom]

In Aug of 2005 we were on a 3 week cruise from the Black Sea to Amesterdam. It was very hot for much of the trip. We arrived in Paussau and had our tour and went to the wonderful organ concert. Immediately after that we were suppposed to have the afternoon free. Our CD got a message from the captain to return to the boat. The water level was going down and he wanted to get past a certain point to higher water. So off we went and saw boats from other lines stopped because they couldn't manage to get thru. We were very thankful that our former Russian sub driver paid very close attention to the river conditions that day. Let me add it was raining in Passau that day, but boats were stuck for 2 more days. Pat

[dtwtraveler]

I'll be looking into my travel insurance very carefully if I am in any way doubtful of having trouble when we decide to book' date=' and ensure I read the company's fine print now we know how they deal with this situation.[/quote']

 

As I mentioned in another note, we can purchase insurance that allows us to "cancel for any reason". It's expensive, but it might be a good idea for river cruises, especially as many of us had to pay in full at the time of making the reservation to receive the "2 for 1" pricing! I was picturing "A Lion in Winter" on the Thames and royalty travelling on the European waterways! And even if they didn't travel on the water, their travel on the "roads" was terribly uncomfortable and time consuming, so I'm going to try to look at it as my "cup is half full" if we end up on a bus!

[fred111]

Reading this whole thread, it appears that the major problem was not with the river depth, as anyone reading this web site would know that the rivers are "fickle" and unpredictable." The problem was that passengers could not get "true and accurate" situational reports from their cruise line. This is unacceptable.

 

My wife and I cruised on the Unworld River Ambassador from Amsterdam to Basel a couple of weeks ago and the Rhine was very low. Our captain and the CD gave us frequent updates as to the situation and how it might affect our cruise. The captain did several very smart things including leaving a location a little early, relocating a pick up point, etc. The bottom line is that we knew what was going on at all times and we missed absolutely nothing. The cruise was terrific.

 

We will continue to cruise with Uniworld since we are very happy with both the service we receive on board the ships and the service we receive from the company.

[I'm from Oz]

As I mentioned in another note, we can purchase insurance that allows us to "cancel for any reason". It's expensive, but it might be a good idea for river cruises, especially as many of us had to pay in full at the time of making the reservation to receive the "2 for 1" pricing! I was picturing "A Lion in Winter" on the Thames and royalty travelling on the European waterways! And even if they didn't travel on the water, their travel on the "roads" was terribly uncomfortable and time consuming, so I'm going to try to look at it as my "cup is half full" if we end up on a bus!

Good on you dtwtraveler - have fun whatever happens is my motto too.

 

And, oh yes, the Thames was certainly used for travelling up and down from London to Hampton Court of course, and probably Windsor and other palaces come to think of it :)

[greatimes4ever]

Thanks for the info, we are going on the River Countess Basel to Vienna on November 8th, so hearing how low water levels are interfering with other companies schedules this was good news. We have never been on a river cruise and both my husband and I are work-holics and really need this vacation. Your post makes me feel feel much better about this trip and the fact that all my research about Uniworld and there reputation is in fact true.

 

Hello there lmrumley, my husband and I are also heading off on our first river cruise from Basel to Vienna. We are so excited and justing hoping that the river levels will have risen enough to allow us to spend the whole time on the boat. We are from Australia and may see you on the boat.

[Bapak]

Steamboats, perhaps there is, as you mention a degree of Caveat Emptor and this is the reason that I hire a Travel Agent. It was through my Travel Agent that I received a notice from Scenic Cruises, about a month prior to our group of four adults leaving Australia with the warning that Scenic did not guarantee their cruises either for reasons of High Water, Low Water or substitution of vessel. I queried this with both my Travel Agent and Scenic Cruises direct and received the reply that the warning was only a formality. Now perhaps I am naive and perhaps alarm bells should have been ring however I accept people at their word.

 

I am now aware of European River Cruises conducted by Scenic that were truncated last year and I am also aware now of cruises that were truncated by Scenic, prior and during the period of our River cruise. I would consider, now, that Scenic were fully aware of the situation and had in place contingency plans prior to our departure from Amsterdam.

 

I would consider both the International Riding School Hotel in Venice and the Marriott Hotel in Budapest to be at least 4 star hotels (both Hotels are members of the Marriott Group of which I am a Silver Level Rewards member) so the level of accommodation was not the issue it was the level of food and beverage service, which I have believe was controlled by instruction by Scenic, that was the issue. Additional to this was the loss of Butler service and free garment pressing.

 

My complaint extends to the lack of information that was supplied prior to and during the River Cruise. The lack of information was evident even under close questioning of Scenic staff.

 

Add to this the need to unpack and repack while being bussed about Austria, Slovakia and Hungary on a bus that was not suitable for the task.

 

Blu*Donau, yes we were on the Scenic Diamond.

 

I’m from Oz, yes it may well be true that the off-loading of passengers and their luggage could have allowed the ship to sail from Regensburg to Budapest, yet the same ship, the Scenic Diamond, loaded up with passengers of the 12th of October to set sail for Amsterdam. The question is did it make it to Amsterdam or were the passengers off-loaded at Passau?

[dtwtraveler]

Hi:

 

I thought of the Thames because a friend and I were on an excursion boat from London to Hampton Court in 1976. Co-workers visited London two months later and couldn't take a boat to Hampton Court because the Thames' river level was too low for the boat!

[steamboats]

Steamboats, perhaps there is, as you mention a degree of Caveat Emptor and this is the reason that I hire a Travel Agent. It was through my Travel Agent that I received a notice from Scenic Cruises, about a month prior to our group of four adults leaving Australia with the warning that Scenic did not guarantee their cruises either for reasons of High Water, Low Water or substitution of vessel. I queried this with both my Travel Agent and Scenic Cruises direct and received the reply that the warning was only a formality. Now perhaps I am naive and perhaps alarm bells should have been ring however I accept people at their word.

 

I am now aware of European River Cruises conducted by Scenic that were truncated last year and I am also aware now of cruises that were truncated by Scenic, prior and during the period of our River cruise. I would consider, now, that Scenic were fully aware of the situation and had in place contingency plans prior to our departure from Amsterdam.

 

I would consider both the International Riding School Hotel in Venice and the Marriott Hotel in Budapest to be at least 4 star hotels (both Hotels are members of the Marriott Group of which I am a Silver Level Rewards member) so the level of accommodation was not the issue it was the level of food and beverage service, which I have believe was controlled by instruction by Scenic, that was the issue. Additional to this was the loss of Butler service and free garment pressing.

 

My complaint extends to the lack of information that was supplied prior to and during the River Cruise. The lack of information was evident even under close questioning of Scenic staff.

 

Add to this the need to unpack and repack while being bussed about Austria, Slovakia and Hungary on a bus that was not suitable for the task.

 

Blu*Donau, yes we were on the Scenic Diamond.

 

I’m from Oz, yes it may well be true that the off-loading of passengers and their luggage could have allowed the ship to sail from Regensburg to Budapest, yet the same ship, the Scenic Diamond, loaded up with passengers of the 12th of October to set sail for Amsterdam. The question is did it make it to Amsterdam or were the passengers off-loaded at Passau?

 

I didn´t say that there wasn´t a significant warning about the general situation of the river levels. But there might not have been a significant warning for the current circumstances of your cruise. The dry weather lasted up for about 6 weeks. Sure all ships were able to sail during the first maybe 3 weeks. Problems started maybe in week 3/4 when the river level was getting lower and lower. Anyway the situation was changing by the hour and some ships were able to get through the shallow areas, some not. The Scenic ships are drawing pretty much water and might be one of the first ones to come to an halt. Anyway I don´t think that the crew aboard had lots of time to organize hotels and stuff. What should Scenic do?? Book a hotel for all passengers two weeks in advance and then cancel because it´s raining and the ship is sailing as scheduled? And I don´t think you can´t blame Scenic for services which are not available at a hotel. The question is did Scenic offer any kind of compensation for this inconvenience??

 

I do not defend Scenic or any other cruise company. I clearly state that all companies should communicate with their passengers. Obviously others are doing as you can see by reports of AMA and Uniworld passengers. Anyway I do know that both people posting have spent a long time on this board and were aware of what can happen. When you know what can happen you take it way easier!

 

steamboats

[Bapak]

Yes it is my suspicion that Scenic had bookings in place prior to the commencement of my cruise on the Scenic Diamond on the 28th of September 2009 from Amsterdam. As a member of the Marriott Rewards program I am aware that I can reserve a hotel room and then cancel the booking the day before arrival at no cost to me. I imagine that if Scenic is booking hundreds of hotel rooms that a similar if not greater privilege would be extended to them.

 

Yes I can blame Scenic for the lack of facilities at the Hotel as I enquired at both the International Riding School Hotel in Vienna and the Marriott Hotel in Budapest for both pressing and butler services and I was refused at both establishments.

 

I can also blame Scenic for booking a restaurant that had insufficient capacity to seat my wife and myself for a lunch.

 

I can also blame Scenic for providing meals that did not have anything like the selection and quantity of food and beverage as was provided on the cruise ship.

 

I can blame Scenic for having to live out of a suitcase for four days and perform my own ironing and before you think that I am being precious about this remember that I had paid for this service that was provided on the cruise ship.

 

I can blame Scenic for having to sit on an uncomfortable bus for hour after hour with limited viewing while being transported through Germany, Austria, Slovakia and Hungary.

 

Yes, I can blame Scenic for hiring a bus that could only deliver its passengers to the Vienna Concert an hour late.

 

And yes I can blame Scenic for hiring a bus that was too large to navigate the streets of Budapest and left its passengers in the street at the Chain Bridge to transport both ourselves and luggage on foot to our Hotel.

 

In answer to your question was compensation provided. The answer is a simple and emphatic no. In fact compensation was never mentioned by any Scenic staff member. I have a suspicion that Scenic will not offer any compensation to any passenger unless pressed by the individual passenger.

 

I also have a suspicion that the Scenic Diamond did not make its way back to Amsterdam after sailing from Budapest on the 12th of October 2009 and I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has specific knowledge of that particular cruise.

 

However Steamboats, back to the point; I booked a River Cruise and got a Bus / River Cruise. The bus section did not live up to services that Scenic had agreed to provide when I paid my not insignificant tariff.

 

Additionally Scenic refuse even under direct questing to provide any information regarding river levels and the impact of such levels on the navigation of the Scenic Diamond other that one liners delivered by the Scenic regarding the need to do rain dances.

 

I will be pursuing the matter of compensation with Scenic and advise that any other passengers on cruises that were truncated by Scenic to pursue a similar course of action.

 

An oh if you think I am peed off, you are spot on the money.

[steamboats]

I totally understand that and why you´re peed off.

 

Scenic is relatively new in this business (regarding river cruises). There have been big problems when they started and there were still a lot of complaints about customer service here on this board. You might not have booked the cruise if you had known in advance.

 

Did you complain during your trip? Did you face them with your complaints? Did you write everything up and presented your complains to the crew? Then again explain your problems to their office.

 

I just wanted to explain that some problems might not be their fault. I also just wanted to explain why things may have happened. I just wanted to give you some facts about river cruising. I can´t help you fight against Scenic. IMHO opinion you are totally right demanding the service they promised and if they can´t (because the hotel isn´t offering that) they should give you any kind of compensation.

 

steamboats

[G.M.T.]

Blu*Donau, yes we were on the Scenic Diamond.

Hi Bapak,

 

Which bus were you on one of the single decker with either Otto or Manfred as the bus driver or on the double decker with Wolfgang?

 

How do I know? I was the English speaking escort that came with the buses.

 

I can add another aspect to what Bapak has already written. Normally I do guided tours in Passau for cruise ships (CC this is not advertising - just some background information). I get a phone call at 08:00 pm on Wednesday evening asking if I would be willing to do a 4 day tour Regensburg to Budapest. I said I would not act as a tour guide as my knowledge is very limited to the areas we could be visiting. I was told the job is more of translator, escort service or travel chaperon. I said yes (much to my regret - more later) and had to be in Regensburg at 06:30 am next morning. Also was told tour plan and information will be readily available in Regensburg - hahah.

 

I would have thought that cruise operators would have contingency / emergency plans in the drawer (didn't seam like it on this occassion).

 

For me the whole trip was total chaos, buses that are used for long distance travel were to be used for sightseeing in some very narrow street. The information flow was abysmal, the CD had all the information available but she would not part with it. As soon as I asked her a question e.g. the name and address of the hotel in Vienne, she became very hectic and became. Sometimes I only got the information as to our next stop minutes before we were due to depart and I had to get the information to the bus drivers. I eventually got the information earlier from kind passengers who gave me their copy of the daily program.

 

Scenic cannot beheld responible for the low level of the Danube, but they beheld responsible for their lack of information management. I was told by several passengers that they were told on the Monday night that they would be leaving the ship on Thurday to finish the cruise in Budapest.

 

It was sad to see, some people had paid 1000's for this trip of a life time and to end so. I must say they were a great bunch with very little complaining from what I heard, what irritated the people was the lack knowledge as to what was happening or going to happen. It was if they were on an assembly line, they will get thr information at the very end.

 

Having work in service related industries I know how important it is to keep ones customers informed no matter how bad the situation is. Most people are intelligent enough to understand and accept such situations, but it is the not knowing that causes problems.

 

I do not think I would do another job like this one at such short notice without the time for some preparation.

 

Ron

[steamboats]

Ron,

 

Thanks for the insight view! That´s exactly what I thought. No preparation for such a situation plus a lack of communication.

 

Things can go wrong. And sure Scenic is not responsible for the weather and the river levels. They can´t be blamed for the fact that a hotel does not offer the same services as the ship does. But they can be blamed for not giving any kind of compensation. Mustn´t be money. But even free drinks can calm down the moods.

 

Wow, now I see what great guy we had on the MOZART in 2005. Actually it was his first job as CD on a river cruise ship (although experienced as a group guide). He did the greatest job ever and everyone was so pleased with this non-cruise that I didn´t even hear a single person complaining. When we left we thanked him and told him we´re so sorry that this has been such a chaotic start of his new job but he handled the situation extremely well. And he didn´t get much sleep that week. BTW we too had two meals in Budapest (been bussed there from Vienna, 5 star hotel night and back by bus) which didn´t come up with the standards of Deilmann (although one was in the 5 star hotel). It is pretty tough to organize a restaurant which has accomodations for a larger group and is offering gourmet food. O.k., I was able to live with it. I´ve told them, not complaining but just to say that maybe next time they should look for another place. Back then we were offered a really generous compensation plus some little things like champagne when returning back to the ship from Budapest, a letter of apologize and more.

 

steamboats

[dtwtraveler]

When you know what can happen you take it way easier!

 

steamboats

 

I agree with you that knowing ahead about possible problems makes it much easier when faced with them on the cruise. Thanks to everyone who has shared the problems and disappointments they encountered on their cruises! I should have researched potential problems on CC before I booked a cruise. I think that we're now more prepared for most of the problems we might face because of these comments. Thank you! We fly to Amsterdam tomorrow, Thursday, 10/22, and will board the Viking Sun in Antwerp, Sunday, 10/25. I wish that I could bring Michigan's rain with me!

[G.M.T.]

Steamboats,

 

You are welcome.

 

A couple of other points. All the "shore" excursions we did are exactly the same as listed in Scenic catalog. At the restaurants during excursions the staff knew the CD. So no additonal expense here.

 

Both hotels were good and at corporate rates.

 

With regards to drinks, in Regensburg 6 cases of wine were loaded onto the buses from the ship. At Melk Abbey, and the hotels we (the drivers and myself) had to take from and bring back the wine, we never even were give a chance to try. Probably cheap plonk anyway.

 

Ron

[MacBraces]

I agree with you that knowing ahead about possible problems makes it much easier when faced with them on the cruise. Thanks to everyone who has shared the problems and disappointments they encountered on their cruises! I should have researched potential problems on CC before I booked a cruise. I think that we're now more prepared for most of the problems we might face because of these comments. Thank you! We fly to Amsterdam tomorrow, Thursday, 10/22, and will board the Viking Sun in Antwerp, Sunday, 10/25. I wish that I could bring Michigan's rain with me!

 

dwttraveler,

 

I will be on the same cruise following yours and wish you the best trip possible. Are you planning to take a laptop along? Would love to hear your version of what's happening while you're there.

 

I am so NOT looking forward to this trip if we have to be bussed from one place to another and stay in hotels. I am paying for river cruising and do hope I get it.

 

Please keep us updated if possible.

Enjoy the trip and hope you cruise. :D

 

Lori

[steamboats]

I agree with you that knowing ahead about possible problems makes it much easier when faced with them on the cruise. Thanks to everyone who has shared the problems and disappointments they encountered on their cruises! I should have researched potential problems on CC before I booked a cruise. I think that we're now more prepared for most of the problems we might face because of these comments. Thank you! We fly to Amsterdam tomorrow, Thursday, 10/22, and will board the Viking Sun in Antwerp, Sunday, 10/25. I wish that I could bring Michigan's rain with me!

 

Have a great cruise! And know that you´re prepared you might not even face any problems but have a great and smoothe cruise experience!

 

steamboats

[steamboats]

With regards to drinks, in Regensburg 6 cases of wine were loaded onto the buses from the ship. At Melk Abbey, and the hotels we (the drivers and myself) had to take from and bring back the wine, we never even were give a chance to try. Probably cheap plonk anyway.

 

Ron,

 

You were supposed to work not to drink :D!

 

steamboats

[dtwtraveler]

dwttraveler,

 

I will be on the same cruise following yours and wish you the best trip possible. Are you planning to take a laptop along? Would love to hear your version of what's happening while you're there.

 

I am so NOT looking forward to this trip if we have to be bussed from one place to another and stay in hotels. I am paying for river cruising and do hope I get it.

 

Please keep us updated if possible.

Enjoy the trip and hope you cruise. :D

 

Lori

 

Hi Lori:

 

I won't be taking my laptop along. With the luggage (and a CPAP for my spouse) camera, etc., on and off trains (and hopefully not to many hotels) I would either drop it or leave it somewhere. I am thinking about using an internet cafe for the first time, so I hope to post from there. I can't remember if in Amsterdam the cafes sell "joints" but no cigarettes or is it the coffeehouses? Interesting, eh?

 

Auf Wiedersahn! (sp?)

Cathie

[dtwtraveler]

dwttraveler,

 

Please keep us updated if possible.

Enjoy the trip and hope you cruise. :D

 

Lori

 

Hi Lori:

 

I just thought of something. You'll be coming on the ship after we depart. Would you like me to leave a note for you when I leave the ship? If so, give me your name and stateroom #. If you prefer, my email address for this trip is: cwshops-viking@yahoo.com.

 

Cathie

[dtwtraveler]

Have a great cruise! And know that you´re prepared you might not even face any problems but have a great and smoothe cruise experience!

 

steamboats

 

Thanks,

Cathie

[G.M.T.]

Ron,

 

You were supposed to work not to drink :D!

 

steamboats

 

Steamboats,

 

I'm 100% professional when I work and I always look after my assests and tools.

 

My main assest on the tour was my voice which always has to be kept moist and well lubricated. :+0

 

Ron

[usavvy2]

Robert, fabulous idea about training it to Basel! And trains in Switzerland are fabulous! We once were on an ocean cruise that had to cancel the 2nd day b'c they hit the locks in Amsterdam on the 1st day enroute to the North Sea so I understand some of the frustration with the plan changing so dramatically. At that time, it was our very first trip to Europe and we were still wet behind the ears with what to do as an alternative. Sounds like you've got a good handle on the situation. Enjoy as best you can your time in Basel.

 

after our experience with our ocean cruise being canceled after hitting a lock on day 1 out of Amsterdam, we quickly came to realize that the sign of a great company/business is not what they do when things are going great but how they respond when things go amiss. And, I must say, to that point, Celebrity Cruise Lines was fabulous in handling the incident at the time. Remarkably fabulous.

 

Having read the many posts in this thread (and a few other threads), I think I'll cross Viking and Scenic off my list of considerations in the future should their itinerary tempt me. (Actually, I have no reason to look further than Avalon; my first and only experience with them earlier this month was wonderful.)

 

I wish all of you on upcoming river cruises all the water you need to sail along (but not a drop more) as you can see by my attached pix just how low some of the bridges are on the Danube Canal!

[greatimes4ever]

Hello to you all. I am very new to this site with this being only my second posting. I have found the information provided by the members to be so helpful and has assisted enormously in the planning.

 

My husband and I are doing the Grand European Discovery (Basel - Vienna) with Uniword, departing Basel on the 9 Nov 09. I have been following the weather in Germany/Austria with much interest with rain predicted in some areas over the next week or so. We are so hoping that the river levels are high enough to allow completion of the whole tour as a cruise, not a cruise/bus tour.

 

My question is for Blu*Donau or Steamboats - have the river levels risen any? and is there much rain predicted over the next few weeks?

 

We are so looking forward to our first European holiday and very excited about the cruise.

[bonvoyagequeen]

Yes, PLEASE, does anyone know what the levels are currently and are they anticipating any rain? My Mom and I are leaving on Nov. 13th on the AMA Blue Danube Discovery trip and are doing a rain dance as we speak :D! We did a river cruise 5 years ago and the water levels were to high and we had to stay in Avignon for 2 days. We were not able to get back to Lyon and were bused to the airport from there. Okay with me, I LOVED Avignon!