Auto Tipping - What do you think?

[karatemom2]

I personally hate the auto-tip system, it doesn't give me the opportunity to tip the people I want to tip, if someone does a lousy job and someone else does a fantastic job, I have no choice but to tip them both.

 

But my question is: why should I tip at all (serious question)?

 

Good grief, here we go again with this tipping debate. I can't believe this thread has even been dragged back up to the top. If you have read through this entire thread and still have to ask that question, then I don't think it even merits further discussion.

 

If you haven't read through this thread, or done a search on the many other threads on this topic, you might wish to do so. That should answer your question. Then it is something you and your conscience can decide.

[sveipe]

Good grief, here we go again with this tipping debate. I can't believe this thread has even been dragged back up to the top. If you have read through this entire thread and still have to ask that question, then I don't think it even merits further discussion.

 

If you haven't read through this thread, or done a search on the many other threads on this topic, you might wish to do so. That should answer your question. Then it is something you and your conscience can decide.

 

I asked one single question, and you feel like that gives you the right to be rude to me?

 

I have read the entire thread, and pretty much all of the others, and I haven't seen a single one that answered my question.

[karatemom2]

I asked one single question, and you feel like that gives you the right to be rude to me?

 

I have read the entire thread, and pretty much all of the others, and I haven't seen a single one that answered my question.

 

Sorry if you found my response rude, but if you have read all of that information, surely you know that the crew depends on tips as wages since they receive minimal compensation. Also you must have read that the service they provide is above and beyond in most cases with waiters serving three meals a day that you would tip for in any nice restaurant, stewards cleaning and refreshing your room daily which you would tip for in a nice hotel and many other staff behind the scenes providing excellent service to make your vacation relaxing and memorable.

 

If that doesn't answer your question, I'm not sure what you are looking for. :confused:

[sveipe]

Sorry if you found my response rude, but if you have read all of that information, surely you know that the crew depends on tips as wages since they receive minimal compensation. Also you must have read that the service they provide is above and beyond in most cases with waiters serving three meals a day that you would tip for in any nice restaurant, stewards cleaning and refreshing your room daily which you would tip for in a nice hotel and many other staff behind the scenes providing excellent service to make your vacation relaxing and memorable.

 

If that doesn't answer your question, I'm not sure what you are looking for. :confused:

 

 

I don't want this to come out wrong, but I guess there is only one way to put it: Why is the fact that the employees work for minimal compensation my problem? Shouldn't that be Princess' problem? If they don't pay their employees enough, and expect us to compensate, then they should make it fair, and make everyone pay their share, not just the ones that chose to.

 

And as I see it, I am just buying a product as advertised, and any tip should be to reward people that go beyond that. If they don't pay their employees enough, and the quality suffers from that, people would stop cruising with them because of the lack of service.

 

I am just trying to understand why it is this way.

[bhopal21]

But my question is: why should I tip at all (serious question)?

 

If you don't normally tip service people (waitstaff, porters, hairdressers, nail techs, etc) at home then you wouldn't be comfortable tipping onboard either.:eek:

 

Mike:rolleyes:

[sveipe]

If you don't normally tip service people (waitstaff, porters, hairdressers, nail techs, etc) at home then you wouldn't be comfortable tipping onboard either.:eek:

 

Mike:rolleyes:

 

Many people do not normally tip for the above mentioned services, in the US yes, but this is not normal all over the world. In fact I come from a culture where tipping was not customary, and this was a problem for me when I moved to the US, as I knew the tipping culture existed, but I didn't have any clue about who and how much to tip. People that expects to receive tip here might be offended in another country.

 

Just think about it, when they have to make up "Auto-Tip", isn't that completely against the intention of tipping in the first place. It seems like tipping is something we should do for just the ordinary service we receive, and not as a reward for extra service provided. Maybe I am misunderstanding this (wouldn't be the first time) but that doesn't sound right to me.

[Doug R.]

I don't want this to come out wrong, but I guess there is only one way to put it: Why is the fact that the employees work for minimal compensation my problem? Shouldn't that be Princess' problem? If they don't pay their employees enough, and expect us to compensate, then they should make it fair, and make everyone pay their share, not just the ones that chose to.

 

And as I see it, I am just buying a product as advertised, and any tip should be to reward people that go beyond that. If they don't pay their employees enough, and the quality suffers from that, people would stop cruising with them because of the lack of service.

 

I am just trying to understand why it is this way.

 

Becuase that is the way it evolved in the US over time, just as other nation's tipping protocols or lack thereof evolved.

 

Bottom line is the good traveler follows the tipping customs of the nation (or in this case cruiseline) you choose to visit.:rolleyes:

[sveipe]

Becuase that is the way it evolved in the US over time, just as other nation's tipping protocols or lack thereof evolved.

 

Bottom line is the good traveler follows the tipping customs of the nation (or in this case cruiseline) you choose to visit.:rolleyes:

 

 

I completely agree. But, then why are the princess' protocol imposed on us? It doesn't seem like this is following the customs of the country. I mean they chose who and how the tip should be distributed. This sound like part of their compensation and not a tip, and if it is part of their compensation, why not make it fair and make everyone pay for it? Why should I pay for the people that don't tip?

 

And it seems to me that more and more people decide not to tip, just by watching the people that skips the dining room the last evening from when i started cruising to my more recent ones. Looks like they are going to have to include the tip in the price sooner or later anyway.

[bhopal21]

Many people do not normally tip for the above mentioned services, in the US yes, but this is not normal all over the world. In fact I come from a culture where tipping was not customary

 

When I travel to other parts of the world I make it a point to try and conform to their expected protocol in the matters of courtesy, tipping, etc.

 

You do what works for you.

 

Mike

:)

[sveipe]

When I travel to other parts of the world I make it a point to try and conform to their expected protocol in the matters of courtesy, tipping, etc.

 

You do what works for you.

 

Mike

:)

 

Of course I do. What is your point?

[bhopal21]

Of course I do. What is your point?

 

The point is, you asked the question "Why should I tip at all?"

 

Several people have answered that question but it is obvious that you intend to stiff the crew, so knock yourself out.

 

You can argue with yourself, if you want.

 

Mike:p

[Doug R.]

I completely agree. But, then why are the princess' protocol imposed on us? It doesn't seem like this is following the customs of the country. I mean they chose who and how the tip should be distributed. This sound like part of their compensation and not a tip, and if it is part of their compensation, why not make it fair and make everyone pay for it? Why should I pay for the people that don't tip?

 

And it seems to me that more and more people decide not to tip, just by watching the people that skips the dining room the last evening from when i started cruising to my more recent ones. Looks like they are going to have to include the tip in the price sooner or later anyway.

 

Once again, because they can impose it. I wish they would make it part of the cost of passage, no more debates.

[sveipe]

The point is, you asked the question "Why should I tip at all?"

 

Several people have answered that question but it is obvious that you intend to stiff the crew, so knock yourself out.

 

You can argue with yourself, if you want.

 

Mike:p

 

When have I ever said that I intended to stiff the crew, just because I ask a question (which by the way nobody has answered yet) doesn't mean I am not tipping. Not that it has anything to do with my question but since you apparently sit high on your horse I'll let you know that I have never removed nor do I intend to remove the auto-tip.

[sveipe]

Once again, because they can impose it. I wish they would make it part of the cost of passage, no more debates.

 

I agree, the we could go back to tipping for excellent service.

[rdsqrl]

When have I ever said that I intended to stiff the crew, just because I ask a question (which by the way nobody has answered yet) doesn't mean I am not tipping. Not that it has anything to do with my question but since you apparently sit high on your horse I'll let you know that I have never removed nor do I intend to remove the auto-tip.

People have answered your question. The fact is that the cruise line runs on the same model as your local restaurants in Denver: crew are paid a nominal wage and the main part of their income is dependent upon tips received for good service -- in theory, they'd work harder than "salaried" employees, as shoddy service can be easily penalized. It's no different than going to a land-based resort and paying a mandatory "resort fee" or "service charge." I don't know what culture you come from but I imagine that in your country of origin, there was at least one service-based industry that operated on the same model.

Does auto-tipping occasionally reward the so-so worker along with the good worker? Sure, just like any compensation system does (and if I were paid a guaranteed salary for cleaning 18 toilets twice a day, I can guarantee you, I'd be skimping my work as often as possible -- I'd aspire to so-so!). However, I'm willing to bet that overall your service has always been at least at a "good" level -- and "good" is sufficient to me to merit $10.50 per day divided amongst steward, waiters, ass't waiter, bus boys in the buffet . . . If things crater, you can always remove it. And if someone was exceptional, you can always supplement it. So it's simple and flexible. And as far as the cruiseline is concerned, it's a winner for them as it reduces their payroll tax liability -- were they to pay all those service providers a fixed salary, we'd be paying Seabourn-level cruise fares to cover it.

[Pam in CA]

Well, like I mentioned people...I never mentioned trying to stiff anyone! This was about who was going to control the tipping - me or Princess. And I'm sorry, but after spending thousands of dollars on a trip, I'm going to ask a question like that!

About 10 years ago, when I first started cruising frequently, tipping envelopes were in every cabin and available at the Pursar's desk. By the time you added up the "recommended" amounts to the waitstaff and steward (pretty much consistent among the cruiselines), it was $10.00/day/pp. When Princess introduced Anytime dining years ago, they also introduced the Auto-tip to make it easier and more convenient for passengers to tip the staff. It was $10/day/pp for years and just this past year, was raised to $10.50/day/pp for inside/oceanview cabins, $11/day/pp for suites (mini and full.) $.50 is not a huge increase over what you were expected to tip ten years ago. Does Princess "control" the distribution of the hotel service charge? Yes, technically. But be honest. You'd tip your waitstaff and stewards up to that amount anyway under the old system. With Anytime dining and the buffet open 24/7, the "Auto-tip" (not the Princess terminology for this) means you don't have to carry cash around with you day and night, every time someone helps you. Nor do you have to bring $00s in cash with you on a cruise just for tipping; it's on your onboard account and payable via credit card. I call that a huge convenience.

 

In 2001, a few months before Anytime dining and the Auto-tip was introduced, I was on the Royal Princess immediately following a 102-day world cruise. We were shocked to learn that more than a few passengers tipped the waitstaff (who I would consider incredibly good) $0 for the entire three months' of service. Nada. Nothing. Not a sous. It made me sick.

 

I personally hate the auto-tip system, it doesn't give me the opportunity to tip the people I want to tip, if someone does a lousy job and someone else does a fantastic job, I have no choice but to tip them both.

 

But my question is: why should I tip at all (serious question)?

You absolutely, positively have the opportunity to tip the people you want to tip. You can either give it to them directly (but if you've removed the Auto-tip, it goes into the tipping pool and they don't get to keep it) or you can tip them an additional amount, which they get to keep and which many passengers do.

 

One thing to consider: if you and others remove the auto-tip for a waitperson, it's considered a mark against them as it's assumed they weren't doing their job. It can adversely affect their job status and promotion possibilities. Removing the Auto-tip can have repercussions beyond your desire to "control" who gets what.

 

Something else to consider: many staff in the buffet area don't work in the dining room and almost always are never tipped individually. When they're doing their job, you hardly notice them as they are cleaning tables, getting people food or something to drink, etc. Yet they help make your cruise experience better. While you're "controlling" who gets what, think of them.

[sveipe]

People have answered your question. The fact is that the cruise line runs on the same model as your local restaurants in Denver: crew are paid a nominal wage and the main part of their income is dependent upon tips received for good service -- in theory, they'd work harder than "salaried" employees, as shoddy service can be easily penalized. It's no different than going to a land-based resort and paying a mandatory "resort fee" or "service charge." I don't know what culture you come from but I imagine that in your country of origin, there was at least one service-based industry that operated on the same model.

Does auto-tipping occasionally reward the so-so worker along with the good worker? Sure, just like any compensation system does (and if I were paid a guaranteed salary for cleaning 18 toilets twice a day, I can guarantee you, I'd be skimping my work as often as possible -- I'd aspire to so-so!). However, I'm willing to bet that overall your service has always been at least at a "good" level -- and "good" is sufficient to me to merit $10.50 per day divided amongst steward, waiters, ass't waiter, bus boys in the buffet . . . If things crater, you can always remove it. And if someone was exceptional, you can always supplement it. So it's simple and flexible. And as far as the cruiseline is concerned, it's a winner for them as it reduces their payroll tax liability -- were they to pay all those service providers a fixed salary, we'd be paying Seabourn-level cruise fares to cover it.

 

 

I am Norwegain, and no, I cant think of any professions that runs on the same model as in the US. Actually, as a Norwegian I probably should be for this system, it's socialism right there, distribute the wealth :)

 

I don't find that "crew are paid a nominal wage and the main part of their income is dependent upon tips received for good service" is a good reason at all to tip. Especially if you receive poor service.

 

To answer my own question: I tip because I receive great service that goes above and beyond what I expected. I do not tip because I receive ordinary or less than ordinary service. And just to point it out, I have never received anything less than exceptional service on any of my cruises. I just used the somewhat rhetorical question to point out that we tip for great service, not for bad service. My point was simply; I don't like to be forced to tip someone that doesn't deserve it.

 

You say "in theory, they'd work harder than "salaried" employees, as shoddy service can be easily penalized". Then you say: " If things crater, you can always remove it."

 

How can I remove it from one staff member without penalizing all the others?

 

I honestly thought Seabourn was much more expensive than $10-20 a day than princess, but if that is the case I think that would be a really good options for those that don't like the Princess tipping system.

 

 

I don't understand why everyone jumps in my throat for asking this question?

[sveipe]

You absolutely, positively have the opportunity to tip the people you want to tip. You can either give it to them directly (but if you've removed the Auto-tip, it goes into the tipping pool and they don't get to keep it) or you can tip them an additional amount, which they get to keep and which many passengers do.

 

One thing to consider: if you and others remove the auto-tip for a waitperson, it's considered a mark against them as it's assumed they weren't doing their job. It can adversely affect their job status and promotion possibilities. Removing the Auto-tip can have repercussions beyond your desire to "control" who gets what.

 

Something else to consider: many staff in the buffet area don't work in the dining room and almost always are never tipped individually. When they're doing their job, you hardly notice them as they are cleaning tables, getting people food or something to drink, etc. Yet they help make your cruise experience better. While you're "controlling" who gets what, think of them.

 

I know I can give them tip in addition to the auto-tip, in fact I always do, but I would still have to tip that person that did a really lousy job to tip the person that did an absolutely amazing job.

 

I think your point about the rest of the staff that we usually forget about when it comes to tipping is a very good one. That is the good part of the system I guess. But I would rather see the system changed, so that that part was included in the cruise fare and everyone had to pay it, so that some people doesn't have to subsidize the ones that doesn't tip.

 

I don't how many of the passenger in percent that doesn't tip, but my guess its that it's quite a few of them. And currently all the other are paying for them.

[Pam in CA]

I know I can give them tip in addition to the auto-tip, in fact I always do, but I would still have to tip that person that did a really lousy job to tip the person that did an absolutely amazing job.

 

I think your point about the rest of the staff that we usually forget about when it comes to tipping is a very good one. That is the good part of the system I guess. But I would rather see the system changed, so that that part was included in the cruise fare and everyone had to pay it, so that some people doesn't have to subsidize the ones that doesn't tip.

 

I don't how many of the passenger in percent that doesn't tip, but my guess its that it's quite a few of them. And currently all the other are paying for them.

There are some who don't like the system and thus remove the auto-tip. The people they're making the statement to are the service people, unfortunately. They take the brunt of people's unhappiness. If you don't like the system, write it on the Comment card; they really are read and notes taken.

 

The percentage of passengers who don't tip depends on the cruise, embarkation port and nationalities of the passengers. If you're talking about a cruise embarking / disembarking in the U.S., the percentage is relatively low. Most people appreciate the service ALL of the service staff provide.

[sveipe]

There are some who don't like the system and thus remove the auto-tip. The people they're making the statement to are the service people, unfortunately. They take the brunt of people's unhappiness. If you don't like the system, write it on the Comment card; they really are read and notes taken.

 

The percentage of passengers who don't tip depends on the cruise, embarkation port and nationalities of the passengers. If you're talking about a cruise embarking / disembarking in the U.S., the percentage is relatively low. Most people appreciate the service ALL of the service staff provide.

 

 

This is my problem, if I was unhappy with one of the staff I personally could not take the auto-tip off, because I know I would penalize the others who did a great job, and that would feel wrong, but I would be really annoyed that that person got his share of it.

 

I have never experienced anything but excellent service, but I still think auto tip is the wrong way to go. Call it for what it is "Compensation" and include it in the cruise fare, so that it is fair. Then we can have the option to only reward the people that truly deserves it.

[Pam in CA]

I have never experienced anything but excellent service, but I still think auto tip is the wrong way to go. Call it for what it is "Compensation" and include it in the cruise fare, so that it is fair. Then we can have the option to only reward the people that truly deserves it.

No matter which way it's done, people complain or are unhappy. :( The "old" system of everyone tipping individually didn't work; too many people were busy "packing" the last night to go to dinner so they wouldn't have to give a tip. I believe at least one premium cruise line includes the tip (not sure) but I know at least one is all-inclusive with drinks, etc. Those cruises cost a heck of a lot more than Princess.

 

I don't think there's a right or a wrong way to do it. Would it be fairer to everyone to add it to the cruise fare and thus have everyone pay? Probably but then it gets into legal complications (particularly with the FL State AG's office) and "full disclosure" of exactly what is included in the cruise fare. You can bet that someone would file a lawsuit that including the tip in the cruise fare is unlawful. :(

[sveipe]

No matter which way it's done, people complain or are unhappy. :( The "old" system of everyone tipping individually didn't work; too many people were busy "packing" the last night to go to dinner so they wouldn't have to give a tip. I believe at least one premium cruise line includes the tip (not sure) but I know at least one is all-inclusive with drinks, etc. Those cruises cost a heck of a lot more than Princess.

 

I don't think there's a right or a wrong way to do it. Would it be fairer to everyone to add it to the cruise fare and thus have everyone pay? Probably but then it gets into legal complications (particularly with the FL State AG's office) and "full disclosure" of exactly what is included in the cruise fare. You can bet that someone would file a lawsuit that including the tip in the cruise fare is unlawful. :(

 

If it would cause a legal problem, how does Seabourn get away with it?

 

In any case, I don't suggest that the tip being part of the cruise fare, I suggest that the "compensation" be a part of the price. Most people that freak out at people that don't want to tip says it is because the staff doesn't get payed enough. Well, put $7 extra or something on every pax for each day, then the people that wants to tip extra can do that. But at least everyone helped to pay the poor staffs salary (except their employer that is).

 

Staale

[Pam in CA]

If it would cause a legal problem, how does Seabourn get away with it?

Seabourn has done it for years. They also have a very different clientele/passenger with different expectations. People hate change and the FL AG's office just loves to target and listen to complaints against the major cruiselines. :(

[Cruisin' Chick]

I think between rdsql and Pam, the explanation is there. In fact, I prefer the autotips as being much easier for me on that last day as in the past system, we would be spending that last day getting out our cash between the two of us and trying to figure out how much to tip the cabin steward, the waitstaff, the kids' counselors, etc. And notice how many people skip out that last night at dinner.

 

So now we just deal with the counselors plus anyone else we want to tip over the auto-tips. If we thought someone was not that great, we would still keep on the tips, but note the problem on the comment card. If someone was spectacular, that would also be noted on the comment card, if we didn't get one of those "made a difference" cards. And it's pretty nice to spot a crew member from a previous cruise and see they have been promoted and think that something you wrote may have helped them (our ass't waiter on our first Princess cruise was our waiter on our next cruise, a year and a half later...she even remembered us as we were asking for an update on her boyfriend).

 

If Princess, and some other cruiselines, changed the tip to become part of the fare, it requires a different accounting process, taxes, something like that (not an accountant, so I don't know the terminology).

[maria_sienna]

Like other non-US natives, I cannot understand why I have to tip for every service. In my eyes, then, they were paid to do a certain job, and they should do it regardless of extra compensation. People from other culture do find that insulting - that a person had to be bribed to do their job right.

 

I kind of just do it because it is the norm. Even though I still do not quite get it.

 

It seems to me that gratuity in the U.S. is obligatory. They should just call it service charge because if it is an obligation, it does not fit the definition of gratuity.