casino / 21 deck question

[CanWeGoYet?]

I don't gamble, but I am sailing with a friend who likes to play cards and will be on her first cruise. I remember seeing some posts about the 21 card deck being different on carnival. Are all the 21 tables "fun 21" with no queens in the deck? This would be important to know! Thanks in advance for any info.

[Montreal Eh!]

Regular Blackjack is always available.

[Relayer]

There are only 1-2 Fun 21 tables on the Valor. This is the only 21 where they use the manual shoes,6 decks?, as opposed to the continous shuffle electric ones.

[CanWeGoYet?]

Thank you Montreal Eh! and Relayer for your replies. I have no idea what manual shoes are, but I will pass this on to my friend and I'm sure she will understand.

 

Does the ship matter? We aren't on the Valor, we will be on the Imagination.

[yogi2929]

The Carnival ships I have been on all have had the mechanical shufflers, 6 or 8 deck.

[aggieastrosfan]

The Carnival ships I have been on all have had the mechanical shufflers, 6 or 8 deck.

 

There's a couple of tables that still use the old manual shoe. Face-up blackjack still does this. Not sure about Fun 21, as I don't play it often.

[can'twaittacruise]

All ships will have the same rules. Ususally only one or two tables for Fun 21. No queens and some different rules from Blackjack.

 

Here are some generic rules about Fun 21/Spanish 21

http://wizardofodds.com/spanish21

[jayscore]

The "regular" blackjack is dealt with a continuous shuffling machine. So, it's almost impossible to play normal table strategies, like you would with a standard shoe. (Think of every hand like the first hand out of the shoe).;)

[southbayer]

I don't like Fun 21, even tho its opened faced play... I just move over the the regular blackjack tables

I don't gamble, but I am sailing with a friend who likes to play cards and will be on her first cruise. I remember seeing some posts about the 21 card deck being different on carnival. Are all the 21 tables "fun 21" with no queens in the deck? This would be important to know! Thanks in advance for any info.

[aggieastrosfan]

I don't like Fun 21, even tho its opened faced play... I just move over the the regular blackjack tables

 

Dealer does not get both cards up in Fun 21. That only occurs in face-up blackjack.

[wanderlust402]

Dealer does not get both cards up in Fun 21. That only occurs in face-up blackjack.

 

What is the catch on face-up blackjack? It seems like this would give the player a huge advantage, how does the house improve its odds on this game? (Or limit its losses?)

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

The "regular" blackjack is dealt with a continuous shuffling machine. So, it's almost impossible to play normal table strategies, like you would with a standard shoe. (Think of every hand like the first hand out of the shoe).;)

 

Actually "Basic Strategy" still fully applies. To a VERY small extent, playing a CSM (Constant Shuffle Machine) game actually gives you better odds than a shoe game - that little known fact (along with other helpful hints) is buried in the wizard of odds website. The only place a shoe or hand held game really shines is IF you count, then it makes enough of a difference (w/good rules) to shift the advantage from the house to you.

 

What is the catch on face-up blackjack? It seems like this would give the player a huge advantage, how does the house improve its odds on this game? (Or limit its losses?)

 

I have never played it - mainly because you get even money (or 6:5... ~ same thing) on BJ. Additionally, I think the house wins on pushes. It's not a game that anyone who is the least bit familiar with odds would sit down and play.

 

Tom

[aggieastrosfan]

What is the catch on face-up blackjack? It seems like this would give the player a huge advantage, how does the house improve its odds on this game? (Or limit its losses?)

 

Only even money is payed on BJ.

You can surrender after a double down.

Can only DD on 9,10,11.

The biggie - dealer wins all pushes except for BJ.

 

There may be a couple of other small differences, but those are the big ones. The pushes is what will kill you in this game. I had 4 in a row one night, it was horrible.

[BIG_Steve]

Thank you Montreal Eh! and Relayer for your replies. I have no idea what manual shoes are, but I will pass this on to my friend and I'm sure she will understand.

 

Does the ship matter? We aren't on the Valor, we will be on the Imagination.

 

We just got off the Imagination. There is one Fun 21 table, and it uses a 6 deck shoe. I don't know how far in they were shuffling. The rest of the tables are regular blackjack, using continuous shufflers. ALL tables were only $5.00 minimums. Aces could only be split once.

[wanderlust402]

I have never played it - mainly because you get even money (or 6:5... ~ same thing) on BJ. Additionally, I think the house wins on pushes. It's not a game that anyone who is the least bit familiar with odds would sit down and play.

 

I found this on the Wikipedia article for blackjack

"Double Exposure Blackjack is a variant in which the dealer's cards are both face-up. This game increases house edge by paying even money on blackjacks and players losing ties."

 

When I had first heard about "face up blackjack" in the Carnival Capers, it sounded too good to be true. Do you happen to know how it impacts the house advantage? If it is still less than 1%, I would give it a try, but if it makes things too advantageous for the house, I will stay away.

[wanderlust402]

The pushes is what will kill you in this game. I had 4 in a row one night, it was horrible.

 

Ouch. That does not sound like much fun at all.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

I found this on the Wikipedia article for blackjack

"Double Exposure Blackjack is a variant in which the dealer's cards are both face-up. This game increases house edge by paying even money on blackjacks and players losing ties."

 

When I had first heard about "face up blackjack" in the Carnival Capers, it sounded too good to be true. Do you happen to know how it impacts the house advantage? If it is still less than 1%, I would give it a try, but if it makes things too advantageous for the house, I will stay away.

 

My guess is that the house advantage is MUCH higher than 1%... probably over 5% - though I have not found a reliable site for that info.

 

Tom

[CanWeGoYet?]

:eek: It's all Greek to me, but I will pass this on to my friend who speaks your language. :) Thank you all so much for your helpful input. Cruise Critic people are so helpful, can't begin to tell how much info I've gotten here.

 

Carry on your card-speak!

[mathgeek1978]

My guess is that the house advantage is MUCH higher than 1%... probably over 5% - though I have not found a reliable site for that info.

 

Tom

 

 

The house advantage is 10.74%:

Blackjack pays even money: 2.27%

Double down on 9 - 11 only: 0.09%

Player loses 17 -20 ties: 8.38%

 

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

The house advantage is 10.74%:

 

Blackjack pays even money: 2.27%

Double down on 9 - 11 only: 0.09%

Player loses 17 -20 ties: 8.38%

 

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack

 

I was considering adding all of that up - and tentatively came up with the ~10% value as well. What Mike does not have in his chart is the + value for seeing the dealers hole card... that is certainly worth some significant %! Therefore I looked a bit deeper and found THIS (below) info on "Double Exposure" on his site:

 

Tropicana, Claridge, Taj Majal (Atlantic City): 8 decks, dealer stands on soft 17, double only on hard 9-11 and soft 19-20, double after a split allowed, tied blackjack wins, split only once. House edge of 0.66%.

 

Stratosphere (Las Vegas): 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17, double on hard 9-11 only, double after split allowed, tied blackjack wins, split up to four times. House edge of 0.68%. Property removed the game.

 

Lady Luck (Las Vegas): 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17, double on any first two cards, double after split not allowed, tied blackjack wins, split only once, jack and ace of hearts pays 2:1, suited 6-7-8 pays double. House edge of 0.26%. Property has been closed for years.

 

Circus Circus (Reno): 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17, double hard 9-11 only, double after split not allowed, tied blackjack pushes, split only once. House edge of 1.47%.

 

Grand (Tunica): 6 decks, dealer stands on soft 17, double on hard 9-11 only, double after split not allowed, tied blackjack wins, split only once. House edge of 0.96%.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Tom

[mathgeek1978]

I was considering adding all of that up - and tentatively came up with the ~10% value as well. What Mike does not have in his chart is the + value for seeing the dealers hole card... that is certainly worth some significant %! Therefore I looked a bit deeper and found THIS (below) info on "Double Exposure" on his site:

 

Tropicana, Claridge, Taj Majal (Atlantic City): 8 decks, dealer stands on soft 17, double only on hard 9-11 and soft 19-20, double after a split allowed, tied blackjack wins, split only once. House edge of 0.66%.

 

Stratosphere (Las Vegas): 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17, double on hard 9-11 only, double after split allowed, tied blackjack wins, split up to four times. House edge of 0.68%. Property removed the game.

 

Lady Luck (Las Vegas): 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17, double on any first two cards, double after split not allowed, tied blackjack wins, split only once, jack and ace of hearts pays 2:1, suited 6-7-8 pays double. House edge of 0.26%. Property has been closed for years.

 

Circus Circus (Reno): 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17, double hard 9-11 only, double after split not allowed, tied blackjack pushes, split only once. House edge of 1.47%.

 

Grand (Tunica): 6 decks, dealer stands on soft 17, double on hard 9-11 only, double after split not allowed, tied blackjack wins, split only once. House edge of 0.96%.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Tom

 

Thanks for the info. I agree we need to take the ~10% and minus the edge of seeing the dealer's hole card. Thanks for the above link, although I wonder how he came up with those numbers.

 

I suspect that seeing the dealer's hole card can't be such a big edge (almost 9 - 10% if the above overall edge is true). On many combinations the game would play the same. Of course there are some cases where the edge is significant, for example, the dealer showing a 10 with a 6 in the hole in traditional vs showing 16 on double exposure.

 

Definitely something interesting to look into...

[wanderlust402]

The house advantage is 10.74%:

 

Blackjack pays even money: 2.27%

Double down on 9 - 11 only: 0.09%

Player loses 17 -20 ties: 8.38%

 

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack

 

I was considering adding all of that up - and tentatively came up with the ~10% value as well. What Mike does not have in his chart is the + value for seeing the dealers hole card... that is certainly worth some significant %! Therefore I looked a bit deeper and found THIS (below) info on "Double Exposure" on his site:

 

Circus Circus (Reno): 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17, double hard 9-11 only, double after split not allowed, tied blackjack pushes, split only once. House edge of 1.47%.

 

 

Wow. When I first saw the > 10% I nearly spit out my drink.

 

I think the Circus Circus situation is probably most closely similar. So if the odds on regular Blackjack are < 1% and this variation > 1%, I think I will stick with the traditional game. (Means fewer rules and strategies to memorize.

 

Thank you both!